Microsoft considering adding emulated 360 backwards compatibility to Xbox One
- Thread starter enzo_gt
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if that where the case every original xbox game would have worked on the 360. they had to pick and chose their battles. getting halo 2 working may have made barbies horse adventure work, but not chronicles or riddick. i'm saying they should chose digital as their battle, becasue ultimately, it's more important.
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Same, still need a pricedrop but bc would be a great addition for me!
"add some intermediate processing for controller/device comms"
Devices like the CronusMAX, XIM etc. already let you use a cross-gen controller. You couldn't think of something incredibly generic as a backwards-compatible dongle solution for the Xbox One?
Both the Xbox One and 360 have methods for data transfer - how do you think they communicate with any device?
It would be nice to be able to launch an Xbox 360 game through the Xbox One, using just one menu system, being able to sign into a one live account, not have to worrying about managing two consoles through one HDMI connection.
The Xbox 360 becomes a dumb terminal, responsible only for launching titles.
It's a damn sight less complicated than emulation.
Amazing.
Ha ha, so Internet is suddenly being considered as an issue for users now, but before they thought it was fine users to have Internet access 24/7? Ha ha.
Well judging from PS Now, seem that tech is possible now, but I would prefer local emulation, so if MS do that, really hope it pushes Sony to add the same.
Well judging from PS Now, seem that tech is possible now, but I would prefer local emulation, so if MS do that, really hope it pushes Sony to add the same.
He kind of has a point. Sort of.
With the OG Xbox, some developers were able to use certain nVidia specific calls which obviously didn't carry over to the Radeon based GPU. (That and MS had to pay nVidia the rights to emulate what they could)
With the 360, if a game went around DirectX calls, or basically coded to the metal, the game would not get certification.
MS were very strict about using their DirectX abstraction layer. So really, this is more about converting PPC calls for x86 to work with.
Can't see it happening personally.
No profit in this without doing things that would cause an outrage, emulation is often a shit approximation compared to playing the original software/hardware anyway.
I don't see the difficulty in people keeping their very cheap 360's to do exactly this functionality, any emulation solution MS were to monetise would have to be cheaper solution than just keeping our 360 anyway.
And even then you can guarantee it would be full of compromises, missing textures, lights showing through walls, missing multiplayer.
No thanks, spend the time and money on something important please, emulation is a shit sandwich, people just think they like how it tastes.
No profit in this without doing things that would cause an outrage, emulation is often a shit approximation compared to playing the original software/hardware anyway.
I don't see the difficulty in people keeping their very cheap 360's to do exactly this functionality, any emulation solution MS were to monetise would have to be cheaper solution than just keeping our 360 anyway.
And even then you can guarantee it would be full of compromises, missing textures, lights showing through walls, missing multiplayer.
No thanks, spend the time and money on something important please, emulation is a shit sandwich, people just think they like how it tastes.
I'd prefer local emulation, but if they actually came up with a reliable solution, I would consider buying an Xbone for that.
Anyone tech-savvy willing to explain why is backwards compatibility such a problem for consoles? I honestly don't get why resort to cloud solutions instead of simply using the more powerful hardware to emulate the less powerful.
Anyone tech-savvy willing to explain why is backwards compatibility such a problem for consoles? I honestly don't get why resort to cloud solutions instead of simply using the more powerful hardware to emulate the less powerful.
In my opinion, it's not going to happen as the architectures are so different and takes too much time to make it right with different approaches to coding efficiently by game developers. There's more money in reselling HD upressed versions of older games.
Cloud streaming will remain "a very bad feature" until MS gets their own version of it working, then it's a "must have cloud enabled power from zeus feature". Same shit Sony said about rumble when they didn't have it. What we don't have, we downplay. It's life.
Cloud streaming will remain "a very bad feature" until MS gets their own version of it working, then it's a "must have cloud enabled power from zeus feature". Same shit Sony said about rumble when they didn't have it. What we don't have, we downplay. It's life.
If previous emulators are taken as base, you need at least 10x as much CPU power for emulation.
X360 had a 3 core 3.2GHz CPU. XBone has an 8 core 1.7 GHz CPU. While the Hz speeds between different architectures don't really translate 1:1, XBone's CPU is still order of magnitudes too slow to even touch X360.
Thanks!
I always thought that PC emulators require monster CPUs because their developers basically reverse-engineer old consoles and that actual console makers could save up on power usage thanks to actually having all the knowledge about their architecture. Welp, there goes my optimistic bubble.
Canis lupus
Member
Hopefully it's a better job than the OG Xbox emulation on 360, only a handful games work without glitches and widescreen support.
The article seems to implicate that they've at least tried. More importantly, it's also indicative of their current feelings towards cloud BC and perhaps cloud game streaming in general.
Also, what if the X1 gets a physical BC add-on? Not entirely impossible either, and people have shown interest for such a thing here too.
CadetMahoney
Member
Desperate vita-support MS, best MS.
They know how the 360 works, they don't need to reverse engineer everything like PC emus. It can be quickly optimised due to this and only a fraction of the power of a PC would be needed, just like every other official emulator system.
Twilight Gap
Member
But you'll need to keep your old system to play them. For those looking to save on purchases, it's often desirable to trade the old system in towards the new one. It's maybe not as important for consoles, but handhelds without BC is a deal breaker for me.
I posted it so the OP will think twice about making a thread based on weak information. How did your reply contribute?
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Is this the month when MS staff were told to just say "we're considering everything you want!!!" with little to no regard if its even feasible or actually on the agenda at all? The most free and expectation-less good PR around!
I still remember the fucking woeful Xbox 1 support on 360 that had certain regions of JSRF performing better than others. Nevermind if they'd put the work in they could have sold all Xbox 1 stuff like Phantom Dust on XBLA or whatever.
I still remember the fucking woeful Xbox 1 support on 360 that had certain regions of JSRF performing better than others. Nevermind if they'd put the work in they could have sold all Xbox 1 stuff like Phantom Dust on XBLA or whatever.
Basileus777
Member
Your earlier impression was correct, hardware makers with in depth knowledge of a console's architecture and instruction set can make much more efficient emulators than outside amateurs. That of course doesn't make anything possible, but the xbox 360 on 2005 hardware emulates the original xbox better than the most advanced PC in the world in 2014.
Caayn
Member
I'm aware of that. But you'll keep the translation layer and OS overhead. The CPU in the Xbox One is in terms of raw power on the same level as the 360 CPU so that doesn't help either. Hence why I'm interested to see how MS will tackle this problem.
BruiserBear
Banned
I would love to see this happen.
The Real Napsta
Member
Most? All.
Basileus777
Member
the most. Read it again.
Because there are no XBOX PC emulators?
Things like Kega Fusion, bSNES, Vice, WinUAE run circles around any 'official' emulator.
Sure, they require more CPU power to work, but not because they are inefficiently written - it's because they actually emulate the console, not just try to hack it so that few games work.
I wouldn't bother till its officially happening. ITs very VERY unlikely they will get 360 emulation working on the xbox one, the power just isn't there. There might be a PSNow like service, but like with that id doubt you could chuck in youro ld 360 disk's and play them.
Basileus777
Member
Why are there no Xbox PC emulators? Because it is difficult to do so without documentation of the Xbox's hardware, something people who have worked on making one have commented on. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make by pointing to emulators of ancient hardware, it's kind of a tangent. Besides which, Nintendo makes pretty good emulators for their own hardware on virtual console. Sony's PS2 emulation on the PS3 is also ahead of what PC emulation is capable of on similar hardware specs.
As most have said, this is relatively unlikely as the Xbox One simply isn't powerful enough for full blown emulation of the 360. That being said, I wonder if they will do something like have it available for select, popular titles. Something like they did for the OG Xbox on the 360. If you customize the emulation for select titles, it could work. Talk about a resource drain (i.e. employee time) though; I'd prefer to focus those efforts on new titles.
The Real Napsta
Member
Yeah, that's what I was thinking after reading it. "No current plans and it's pretty hard to do." seems pretty far from "Oh yeah, we've got that figured out and we'll put it in a near future update for funsies."
I'd love to be able to replay KOTOR and The Warriors and ToeJam and Earl III...
Backward compatibility seems a great way to capitalize on manufacturer's console history and to reward fans who may have purchased multiple iterations of a platform over the course of a decade or more.
I know it's easier said than done and is usually imperfect in its delivery. But I like the idea of backward compatibility.
Straight-up hardware emulation is impossible, but there's a substantial chance that nigh-all hardware-intensive calls pass through a version of directX API, which could be reasonably be compiled for x86-64. It also depends on how much "Coding to the metal" was allowed, and how easy it is to pack it back to directX calls.
While we, outsiders, could just try to emulate the hardware, microsoft has the access to both games' and drivers' source, which means they could fix and recompile for a different platform.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Misleading thread title.
How so? It's still a consideration, the BC implicated is emulated in nature. I particularly avoided "has plans" or anything of the sort which would imply that this is something they have set goals for in implementation.
This is where the answer lies. Highly optimized dynamic recompilation and/or wrappers built from their internal tools. Very high level emulation. Because the power definitely is not there for low level emulation.
What an awful oversimplification made to sound like it means something to people who don't know better. PPC to X86 is something that has been researched and worked on for a long, long time (see Rosetta, PearPC, Dolphin). It should be a relatively minor hurdle compared to the much more complex aspects on the 360 to deal with (the GPU).
Playstation Now says Hi.
soul creator
Member
Can they add Otogi 1 and 2 while they are at it?
How well does it work?
EmptySpace
Banned
as they should. you bought the games for 360, not for xbone.
Caayn
Member
With how critical people are about the input lag of their TV I'm surprised that Playstation now is received so positive.
You can ask the thousands of beta testers out there how it is.
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