DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I'm fucking dead
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"Microsoft has tried the first path and it did not work at all. We believe we have a meaningful subscription service." - Jim Ryan
sainraja
Member
I don't get how anyone can become a fanboy of any of the "subscription" services. Both sub services are limited only by the platform and content of the platform, that they are available on. A game does not automatically become better by being put on a sub service and it also does not automatically become a bad come. It is just another way for us to access.
My main reason for signing up for any service right now is due to "online" play. I see the games there as a bonus as I prefer to buy the games I plan on playing for a while. Sub services have so far helped me avoid buying some games that I was uncertain of but obviously not every game is put on one so can't do that every game released. I still stick to my preferred genre's for the most part.
There is a cost factor too and depends entirely on what people value. For some people, sub services are perfect. For others, depending on the # of games they buy and play, relying on sub services alone might end up costing more.
My main reason for signing up for any service right now is due to "online" play. I see the games there as a bonus as I prefer to buy the games I plan on playing for a while. Sub services have so far helped me avoid buying some games that I was uncertain of but obviously not every game is put on one so can't do that every game released. I still stick to my preferred genre's for the most part.
There is a cost factor too and depends entirely on what people value. For some people, sub services are perfect. For others, depending on the # of games they buy and play, relying on sub services alone might end up costing more.
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thismeinteil
Member
Jim has been in charge for awhile, now. Gamepass and MS having all of these studios has been a thing for awhile now, too. Yet, PS5 is wiping the floor with the Series family. Gamepass hasn't seen any growth in 9 months. MS is considering leaving the industry if they can't hit 100M subs by 2027.
Yea, I think Jim is performing just fine.
Mobilemofo
Member
Zuby tech. 
fuck off.
fuck off.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
Jim is talking the talk about 1st party becoming more and more important for Sony, yet in the real world we can see that their first-party line up has been absolutely sparse these past 2 years with only ~2 big AAA experiences per year.
Don't even get me started on 2024 where we have no indication whatsoever of which PlayStation first party games will be available because Sony decided one big showcase was enough to hold us over for 24 months
Don't even get me started on 2024 where we have no indication whatsoever of which PlayStation first party games will be available because Sony decided one big showcase was enough to hold us over for 24 months
SenkiDala
Member
This 1$ free trial doesn't exist since years ? But yeah there's a trick to get cheaper 3 years of GPU. but this is just buying 3 keys of 1 year of Gold and convert them with 1 month of GPU (which isn't 1$).
Stooky
Banned
go look up look up sony 1st party releases over the last 2 years. then compare it to microsoftās output. then you find your definition of sparse.Jim is talking the talk about 1st party becoming more and more important for Sony, yet in the real world we can see that their first-party line up has been absolutely sparse these past 2 years with only ~2 big AAA experiences per year.
Don't even get me started on 2024 where we have no indication whatsoever of which PlayStation first party games will be available because Sony decided one big showcase was enough to hold us over for 24 months
MAX PAYMENT
Member
So they are all striving toward being more like Nintendo?
RickMasters
Member
Sony are NOT MS. They canāt eat the costs. Jim speaks from the perspective of a man that has the resources he hasā¦. Which are not the same as MS resources, as we all know. They canāt afford to put their games on their service day one. MS can. MS are even willing to pay pubs and devs hefty amounts of money to put their games on GPU. Many of them have been happy with the service. So I guess thatās the business side covered for ya. Maybe it works better for some games and devs than it does for others?
And sure they donāt have all publishers games on there. I donāt think thatās realistic for every dev or publisher. But every major pub from T2 to square to EA to UBI all have a presence on GP. Even GTA5 and no manās sky is back on GPU. Devs are still putting big games on their day and date. Sureā¦. I just bought armoured core six, yet I havenāt even touched it yet because of lies of p and star field. And thatās fine. Not everything has to be on GP. What wrong with having a sub for whatās on the sun as long as itās of value to you as the gamer and still buying games? Everybody is a winner.
And as a consumer, with experience with the service, everyday. Itās been fucking great. Sorry. It has though.
diffusionx
Gold Member
25/80 and 50/170 is basically the same lol
And PS+ isn't actively encouring its userbase to not buy games
Jibran#one
Member
The day 1 game releases on gp makes it so much worth it.
A recent example is lies of p
An amazing game that I would've never purchased if not for gamepass.
+age of empires 4 in August s3tarfielyd this month and Forza in October ft
The value of gamepass as a consumer is insane.
A recent example is lies of p
An amazing game that I would've never purchased if not for gamepass.
+age of empires 4 in August s3tarfielyd this month and Forza in October ft
The value of gamepass as a consumer is insane.
SERIOUSLY... Day 1 games.. VALUE VALUE VALUE... the day one games... Flight Sim that was out before Series X/S came out and delayed a year on console, Forza that had early access for $ and DLC I believe that cost $, Halo which was completely free to play MP, only the campaign costs $ without gamepass, and then Redfall which was a giant flop of a game, and Starfield which is a game you probably want to just buy anyway, I personally got the $100 completely free from AMD because I bought a new GPU. The same people touting how great a value gamepass is also buying the early access for games or special versions that are $100+... Wheres the value?
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Microsoft documents already revealed how concerned they are when it comes to the game pass subscriber count.
No matter how you spin it, it's not a profitable business model and Jim Ryan is right.
Yes, some developers are happy if Microsoft PAYS them. That goes against the efficient subscription service because it costs millions/billions of dollars to keep the service running and they're likely losing billions in the process.
Games like Grant Theft Auto 5 are OLD games. We're talking about games release DAY ONE on the service. Devs are more likely to have their games on the service that's more than year old because the majority of the sales are dried up. This is why you see games released late on either PS+ or PS Now. This is the safe cost approach to the subscription service.
As I said, you're speaking as a customer while Jim Ryan is not. You can't say Jim Ryan is wrong when just about everything he's saying is right.
Setsuna Mudou
Member
Is it just me that every time I see someone posting the words "best value in gaming" un-ironically, I just assume they are either a) a shill, b) chatgpt or c) a complete troll.
Fuckin' sick and tired of reading random posts telling other people what's best value. Each person can assess value for themselves.
Also the same guy who is now working for TENCENT
Topher
Identifies as young
There is noting "factual" about that. Value is inherently subjective.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
"According to a newly published Xbox slide deck from the FTC v Microsoft federal case, Xbox Game Pass generated an average of $9.26 per subscription
Xbox Game Pass made $230 million revenue in one month, most users pay for full subscriptions
Microsoft reveals a rare look at concrete Xbox Game Pass earnings, with the subscription breaking $230 million in subscriber revenues in a month's time.
www.tweaktown.com
X-Wing
Member
No, you are wrong.
If Jim isn't catering to every random online person's desires he is doing a bad job. /s
I swear sometimes I think gamers are the worse thing that ever happened to gaming.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
RickMasters
Member
To be fair the only thing Sony has worth shouting about this year is another Spider-Man game. Which Iām sure will be good because insomniac make good games.
But honestly Iāll take starfield, forza M-Sport,hifi rush over just another Spider-Man game. For a 12 months.
Round that off with big 3rd party GPU stuff lies of P, exoprimal, monster hunter rise, payday 3, a plate tale, GTA5, a whole gang of yakuza games. Hot wheel unleashedā¦. All sorts
Interesting stuff like the gunk or high on lifeā¦got a couple fighting games on there blaz blue, guilty gear. Mortal kombat
Got some descent undies on there tooā¦. Moonscars is a good meteoidvania. The gunk is an image eating game. Hollow knight, and some others on there too. Good stuff.
And I still got more to look forward to inbetween MS first party releases on there.
Iām look forward to things like hellblade 2 and avowed.
Lots of good single player stuff. Meanwhile Sony is doubling down on GAAS games for their audience. Crazy turn of the table there! But as a long time bungie fam Iāll be looking forward to playing marathon cross platform with yāall from my Xbox alll the same! Iām happy to give Sony some money if their gaas games are good and come to Xbox with cross play. Maybe marathon will be the first of many such projects for them.
TheShocker
Member
Gamepass is so much more a better value for me, itās not even comparable. 1st party games at launch. More 3rd party games at launch. Bigger library selection. And the recent PSN price hike didnāt help their cause. Cancelled my subscription for now.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
To take issue with Jim Ryan is to have an allergy to truth. His words here are undeniable.
SenkiDala
Member
Obviously it is the same... I didn't say it wasn't.
How is PS+ not encouraging people to not buy game ? Again this month I saw on Twitter many people "oh no 13 sentinels I already bought it, oh no Star Ocean I just bought it, now I will just wait games to come to PS+ extra"... I already saw those comments on the PS3 PS+... -_-
Topher
Identifies as young
Better the buffoon who talks little than the buffoon who talks a lot.
But yes, we have a lot of buffoons running things these days.
You know... I often wonder if these dudes ARE actually that dumb.... if not they are being amazingly blind and corporate concubines for MS. How can ANYONE look at ABK and say Insomniac be like... yep these are the same... Most of PS acquistions dont even come with any or very little OWNED IP, its just Dev talent
RickMasters
Member
I agree with that take. Can you agree then, that he is simply speaking from his own perspective? Does he need to add a footnote in his post that he is after all expressing his own opinion?
Some people think Toyota is the best value car in the worldā¦.. doesnāt mean they are speaking on anybody elseās or your behalf. Does that mean they are somehow asserting it just because they state their opinion? I think some of you get a lil too caught up when people say what they like. He is clearly speaking for himself after all.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
Both companies have slowed their first party output significantly this gen. Just because one has been bad doesn't mean the other can't receive criticism. Also, this is a thread about Jim Ryan's comments on first party vs third party importance, so why bring up Microsoft?
X-Wing
Member
Because the first party games aren't there and there are no guarantees they ever will. This is also the only difference between Game Pass and Plus, since when it comes to third party games a lot of games are available in both services or regularly jump from one to another.
People overstate the value of Game Pass and downplay Plus' value because of the first party titles but those have so far been scarce and regularly disappointing (imho) on the Game Pass side.
In the end, both services offer great value since a subscription of less than 20 euros/month gives you access to a LOT of games, if those games are worth it or not is 100% dependent on your personal taste.
Little Chicken
Banned
I subscribe to both and Game Pass just shits all over whatever Jim is trying to do 
SenkiDala
Member
So your choice is to pay a sub, that is more expensive, because the good part of it is, the games in it are older ? That's a point of view.
As you say yes this is dependent on personal tastes, as usual.
But I still disagree about GPU encourages you to not buy games but PS+ doesn't, to me this isn't true. I prefer to have all 1st party games day one (and a handful of 3rd party games too) at least that's clear and you know more what to expect. On PS+ I heard people complaining about "what Horizon 2 is already is PS+ ? I payed it full price and didn't finish it yet" same goes for Demon's Souls, Ratchet, Miles Morales. Especially when 1st parties are 80ā¬, not knowing if you'll get them or not on the service is not great for consumers imo.
Setsuna Mudou
Member
Do you agree that it sounds like some fucking cult repeating the mantra?
Do you really have that many talks in real life where people try to persuade you that Toyota is objectively the best value car in the world?
Seems this shit only comes from one type of people in these forums, I'll be honest with you. It's vomit inducing, feels like I'm being actively advertised to and my adblock is not working right.
To be crystal clear, if you need to constantly jump in on any unrelated topic to say how X or Y is the best value, you're a fucking douche. (not you specifically, the general "you")
Valkyria
Banned
Office didnāt release yearly and people did not upgrade fast enough that why they moved to subscription.
But writing facts itās too much for shillā¦.I mean undercover PR team for MS in this forum
Topher
Identifies as young
Not when a post is claiming that opinion/perspective is fact. That's exactly what the post in question is doing. It's absurd.
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Wouldnt potential gamepass sub base be Xbox Series consoles AND ALL of PC plus last gen consoles
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ManaByte
Gold Member
Oh so now you're trying to start a witch hunt claiming I'm paid by MS? What the fuck is going on with this place.
PixelatedBeast
Member
Thats because a quality game like that should be sold, not rented. Its good enough to stand as its own as it doesnt need to be proped up by a subcription service. The game is only 19.99$ on PSN.
drotahorror
Member
If Sonys service is so meaningful they should make multiplayer free.
reinking
Gold Member
"I can say with a very high degree of certainty that Microsoft has tried the first path and it did not work at all. That has driven them to make the large acquisition.
Jim agrees.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Jim spoke to all the publishers that currently have timed exclusivity deals with Sony and asked them if they liked gamepass..
bender
What time is it?
Your mom is inherently subjective.
X-Wing
Member
What is good for consumers isn't always immediately perceived. The consolidation Microsoft is pushing into the market to have day one content on the service to keep it enticing won't be positive in the long term.
It's like with Teams. They bundled Teams with the Office 365 subscription, that seems added value to the companies that pay the license. But it also makes it extremely hard for any alternative to Teams to exist and to compete. Which means consumers have less choice and remain trapped in their ecosystem.
Topher
Identifies as young
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Valkyria
Banned
To the fact that I exposed your lie you are not even gonna reply? Not even quote?
Elder Legend
Banned
Yeah, it's weird what people try to pull here. So I just start ignoring, my ignore list is growing by the day.
It's clear the AAA mentality can't work in subscription model, games that cost 200m+ are not sustainable.
What Microsoft should have done is more like Apple Arcade. Take all their devs, slice groups within them for creative rumbles, create games on a very versatile-shared-by-everyone-engine that take 2-4 hours to complete, and release a new one every other week. Sandwich size experiences that are fun, and make you crave for more the sequel.
What Microsoft should have done is more like Apple Arcade. Take all their devs, slice groups within them for creative rumbles, create games on a very versatile-shared-by-everyone-engine that take 2-4 hours to complete, and release a new one every other week. Sandwich size experiences that are fun, and make you crave for more the sequel.