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[Topher]

 

[Felessan]

I believe we will not know if lost Xbox sales will move to PlayStation until the next generation. Currently the video game console market is showing growth by most articles I have read. However, I also believe consoles have a risk of pricing the mass market out and moving them to phones/tablets or low-end PCs (not $1000+ handhelds/pcs), but the sky is not falling.

This is why I inclined to believe that there will be Canis console (cut-down handheld) for cheap to fill-in niche and also replace PS4 owners especially in developing countries
Just whole model will migrate from getting cheaper over time to have propositions at each price level
Quite some industries went through this and it didn't kill them

 

[vodka-bull]

Sell as fast as you can, it won't be worth much in a few months, when MS actually discontinues it

Nah, it's still the best Xbox for backwards compatibility and I have a ton of X360 games.

 

[MacReady13]

huh? Xbox is on their way out of the console business and needed to turn into a 3rd party publisher and release their games everywhere to remain in the industry.

Gamepass literally did more harm than good to them. There's also a reason why they aren't mentioning Gamepas numbers for years.

The fact that 3 years ago they were on trial against Sony for the COD IP and now w have PS5 + COD bundles again says it all lmao.

Xbox as a brand didn't loose only between 2005 and 2008/2009. That's it.

I don't think you understand me- I wholeheartedly agree with you! I have said numerous times on here Gamepass ruined Xbox. It is the sole reason they are now 3rd party. You cannot sustain a business in gaming solely from renting games with next to no sales for games. It was ONLY done to try foprce Sony's hand into doing the same, destroying them in the process. Luckily Sony decided not to go down that route (releasing 1st party games day and date on PS+) thus saving them.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

HA! I am laughing HUGE right now... Why? Microsoft pricing themselves out of the hardware business and my own personal theory is they want to do it.

 

[Pasta la Vista]

Next gen consoles will start as $800, no doubt.

 

[Topher]

HA! I am laughing HUGE right now... Why? Microsoft pricing themselves out of the hardware business and my own personal theory is they want to do it.

 

[Shift!]

If buying isn't owning, then inflation isn't stealing.

 

[Rockman33]

Basically, no.

Some parts are probably a bit cheaper than they were in 2020 (but inflation affects sub-parts too...). But it's not like it was before, where advancements in manufacturing nodes guaranteed that new versions of old chips got cheaper.

We have known this for years. There is a reason Series S exists, you know.

Xbox never changed their model. So this argument makes a little more sense. But their ssd and ram has definitely gotten cheaper over 5 years.

PlayStation has shrunk the size of the console, weight, cpu die and their ssd and ram has also gotten cheaper. All that with less shipping weight and size of the box.

I'd think their gpus would also get cheaper considering it's been 5 years.

 

[Ellis]

Compare the price increase is console war now

Better than what it was in the early 90s. Told other kids in the school playground you had a SNES instead of a Mega Drive you'd get beaten up.

Partly just Brixton in general, but still.

 

[Goalus]

By your argument, that means technically SEGA Megadrive is still alive because brand new ones are still being made and sold.

Suuure.

 

[navii]

Time for a Sony price increase round 2. But Sony at least has enough customers all over the world to recoup the costs from these macroeconomic changes.

 

[laynelane]

I miss the good old days where consoles went down in price over time ie. last generation and every one before.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Suuure.

That's because it's on GamePass

You're fooling no one here

 

[DenchDeckard]

@KeplerL2 recently said Xbox consoles were being sold at a slight profit. Seems to me like the days of subsidized consoles are coming to an end.

Yup, im sure sony will still subsidise because, you know...they still sell games but its clear as day that gamepass isnt going to support the platform to be able to do that.

I wouldn't be surprised if gamepass goes or ms actually does pull out of consoles sooner than expected.

I think its over but there always needs to be 2 x competing businesses or its buggered.

Nintendo, is not the other competitor to sony. No matter how many try to say it. Im talking a system that has the same third party games day one. Maybe apple or steam steps in but I think any business is going to struggle getting support to enter into the console space when all numbers show a heavy decline.

People thought the traditional console was going to die in the pa4 era...I think the ps6 will be the last traditional console and they are already looking at ways to support more avenues. Handheld etc.

Ms is cooked though with these prices. Just trying to extort any last customer they can.

 

[pacman4000]

Xbox never changed their model. So this argument makes a little more sense. But their ssd and ram has definitely gotten cheaper over 5 years.

PlayStation has shrunk the size of the console, weight, cpu die and their ssd and ram has also gotten cheaper. All that with less shipping weight and size of the box.

I'd think their gpus would also get cheaper considering it's been 5 years.

Both PS5 and — finally, about two years later — Series X have switched from 7 nm to 6 nm APUs (which, of course, are single dies containing both the CPU and GPU).

The move from 7 to 6 nm is a rather minor step, nothing like the leaps we saw in previous generations during their life cycles.

So yes, as I mentioned, some components have become less expensive, but clearly not enough to offset other rising costs.

 

[Goalus]

That's because it's on GamePass

You're fooling no one here

 

[Ozzie666]

This is the down side in trying to make consoles more PC like. No custom juice anymore and you need to release the console on par with current or similar PC specs. I rather weaker consoles that punch above their weight. Not sure how his stops the bleeding for Microsoft, any console sitting on shelves already was paid for by the retailer or distributor. They surely can't expect to sell many more going forward. I'm included to believe the theory they are preparing the price shock for next gen.

 

[pacman4000]

This is the down side in trying to make consoles more PC like. No custom juice anymore and you need to release the console on par with current or similar PC specs.

Not really. A unique, custom made, design would most likely end up being more expensive with little or no benefits.

We are decades away from when bespoke hw made sense.

 

[lh032]

Suuure.

its on game pass, low effort.

 

[PeteBull]

Both PS5 and — finally, about two years later — Series X have switched from 7 nm to 6 nm APUs (which, of course, are single dies containing both the CPU and GPU).

The move from 7 to 6 nm is a rather minor step, nothing like the leaps we saw in previous generations during their life cycles.

So yes, as I mentioned, some components have become less expensive, but clearly not enough to offset other rising costs.

Back in late oct 2020 we had rx 6800 (16gigs vram, on 7nm) launching for 580 usd, now for 200usd less we got on 4nm process node 16gigs rx 9060xt thats faster in raster(not by much, 4% on avg) but has much better upscaler and rt capabilities, its literally as strong as ps5pr0 in every possible way.

AMD Radeon RX 9060 XT 16 GB Specs

AMD Navi 44, 3130 MHz, 2048 Cores, 128 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2518 MHz, 128 bit

www.techpowerup.com

https://www.newegg.com/xfx-swift-rx-96tsw16bq-radeon-rx-9060-xt-16gb-graphics-card-double-fans/p/N82E16814150910?item=9SIAD2CKGF4917&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=afc-ran-com-_-PCPartPicker&utm_source=afc-PCPartPicker&AFFID=2558510&AFFNAME=PCPartPicker&ACRID=1&ASUBID=&ASID=https%3A%2F%2Fpcpartpicker.com%2Fproduct%2FDRYfrH%2Fxfx-swift-oc-radeon-rx-9060-xt-16-gb-video-card-rx-96tsw16bq&ranMID=44583&ranEAID=2558510&ranSiteID=8BacdVP0GFs-V3Y_0pCyqRBQjvv5JnEOsw

380$ streetprice despite inflation/tarrifs and meteorite killing off all dinosaurs in the past...

Meanwhile all 3 our beloved console platform holders:

 

[Edmund]

My launch window 499 console is almost worth 699 now.

What a fucked up console gen this has been.

Only fucked up for Xbox.

PlayStation and Switch are thriving.

 

[Moses85]

Stupid, Even more stupid = Microsoft

Microsoft logic: minus, minus = plus

 

[zedinen]

I miss the good old days where consoles went down in price over time ie. last generation and every one before.

We're living in an unstable era without economies of scale, the cost reductions a console maker realizes when it increases its output.

Selling hardware at a loss in the latter half of its life cycle has never made any sense. It only makes sense for the PS5, which has highly elastic demand and high ARPU, driven by in-game purchases and subscriptions.

The problem is that the payback period, the amount of time it takes for SIE to recover the cost of acquiring a new customer, is too long for Sony Group, which relies heavily on SIE cash flows.

Sony Group is a mismanaged economy addicted to cheap money; SIE is the central bank that pumps money.

SIE is not allowed to set consumer-friendly policies, with the intention of sacrificing short-term profits for long-term gains, because its parent company would be cash-strapped.

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

Thank Trump for that..the consumers are paying the tarifs, Trump was and is lying to you, wake up and smell,the coffee....

 

[Ar¢tos]

If you make it expensive and hard to find, it becomes a premium luxury product that only a few can have.
It's a smart move.
I expect their next console to be released in waves of very limited numbers, each wave with a unique design created by different famous people and extremely expensive to make it more unique and desirable.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

If you make it expensive and hard to find, it becomes a premium luxury product that only a few can have.
It's a smart move.
I expect their next console to be released in waves of very limited numbers, each wave with a unique design created by different famous people and extremely expensive to make it more unique and desirable.

So make it a niche product with a tiny user base

 

[Ar¢tos]

So make it a niche product with a tiny user base

OEM versions for the nouveau riche peasants that think they are someone important and expensive exclusive limited MS designer editions as the ultimate power and fashion statement for the few that can afford them.

 

[Ellis]

Suuure.

More people played the game for two minutes on GP, than those that actually purchased it on PS5 and Steam. Seems pretty normal to me.

I wonder what the percentage would be if they had to pay for it. 0.2% maybe.

 

[Astray]

If he's alluding to the lack of cost reduction potential through die shrinks because new node costs have ballooned disproportionately, and the gains on each new node just aren't significant enough; especially as it pertains to power consumption.

Also lack of volume sold. Which I suspect is what he's actually alluding to.

Microsoft don't have the options available to Sony or Nintendo to reduce production costs or change origin country because they don't have sales volume to promise.

(The more you sell the more you have to produce, your vendor gets paid when they sell you a console off the production floor).

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Also lack of volume sold. Which I suspect is what he's actually alluding to.

Microsoft don't have the options available to Sony or Nintendo to reduce production costs or change origin country because they don't have sales volume to promise.

(The more you sell the more you have to produce, your vendor gets paid when they sell you a console off the production floor).

MS has somehow convinced its customers that "console sales don't matter".

That is the greatest con of all. Console sales is everything. Because lack of console sales lead to a negative feedback loop that kills the console stone dead. The feedback loop is exclusive to consoles because Consoles are "supported". As in Consoles needed to be kept relevant and maintained in order to continue to exist and get to the next iteration. Unlike PCs, Consoles can and do "die".

I mean, what did you think console wars are about? it isn't done because of marketing, it is done because the users are aware that competitors are potentially a lethal threat to their chosen ecosystem. You don't see the same desire for Waring with PCs because PCs are not supported by anyone but the customer. There is no threat that would take away your PC's functionality just because someone else has a different computer.

As it is, MS is stuck with Xbox of shrinking hardware sales. And that directly translates to the deterioration of the Console's survival. From more expensive hardware, less bargaining power for chips, moeyhatting being too expensive to be viable, and third parties ignoring you or leave you last for support.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Suuure.

Copius Ignoramus.

 

[skyfinch]

Would you people buy cheap meat? Or cheap parts for your car? What I'm trying to say is, you pay for quality.

Edit, $399 for a Series S?! Fuck that shit!

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Providing the full proper context is moving the goalpost? Interesting argument, gold medal mental gymnastics Olympian...

 

[jm89]

Suuure.

How many jumped in for 5 minutes then stopped playing?

L

Thread 'Game Pass players jump in for 5 minutes and then drop out - MachineGames'

Sep 2, 2025

• LakeOf9
• Replies: 218
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

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[asdasdasdbb]

This is why I inclined to believe that there will be Canis console (cut-down handheld) for cheap to fill-in niche and also replace PS4 owners especially in developing countries
Just whole model will migrate from getting cheaper over time to have propositions at each price level
Quite some industries went through this and it didn't kill them

I think they will just continue to sell the PS5.

 

[NeverYouMind]

How many jumped in for 5 minutes then stopped playing?

L

Thread 'Game Pass players jump in for 5 minutes and then drop out - MachineGames'

Sep 2, 2025

• LakeOf9
• Replies: 218
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

• 
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I played that for a good hour but my distain for first-person perspective stealth and sim-RPG elements was too strong to be won over by Indiana Jones branding. I wanted Wolfenstein-lite with puzzles and a whip. That was not what the game delivered. I may never even bother with Silksong should I resubscribe given how boring it's predecessor was.

 

[lastmessiah]

MS has somehow convinced its customers that "console sales don't matter".

That is the greatest con of all. Console sales is everything. Because lack of console sales lead to a negative feedback loop that kills the console stone dead. The feedback loop is exclusive to consoles because Consoles are "supported". As in Consoles needed to be kept relevant and maintained in order to continue to exist and get to the next iteration. Unlike PCs, Consoles can and do "die".

I mean, what did you think console wars are about? it isn't done because of marketing, it is done because the users are aware that competitors are potentially a lethal threat to their chosen ecosystem. You don't see the same desire for Waring with PCs because PCs are not supported by anyone but the customer. There is no threat that would take away your PC's functionality just because someone else has a different computer.

As it is, MS is stuck with Xbox of shrinking hardware sales. And that directly translates to the deterioration of the Console's survival. From more expensive hardware, less bargaining power for chips, moeyhatting being too expensive to be viable, and third parties ignoring you or leave you last for support.

All this is only relevant if consoles are relevant. Which won't be much longer. You don't even need an "Xbox console" to use Game Pass.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Sigh, proper console gaming is coming to an end. I hate to see it.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

This is where I point out that the PS3's CPU got two full shrinks, while the GPU got three. They removed the hardware BC. The power supply was cut in half.

 

[Bojji]

This is where I point out that the PS3's CPU got two full shrinks, while the GPU got three. They removed the hardware BC. The power supply was cut in half.

They removed BC in 2007, still in fat model.

PS4 went from 399 (2013) to 299 in 2016 (Slim). Node reductions were much bigger back in the day but still, no one can convince me that they (Sony) pay more for PS5 unit in 2025 than in 2020. AT LEAST prices should stay the same.

 

[Felessan]

I think they will just continue to sell the PS5.

@500$ it kinda expensive and has little sense when PS6 is targeting similar range
Sony need something to replace PS4 as it was at the end of generation (aka 200-250$ range) and PS5 will never be there.

 

[jm89]

With ms no longer willing to subsidise Xbox and them rumoured to be releasing an expensive console, 1k+ is looking like on the cards assuming they really do go for power.

The majority of people buying this box will be the last of the Xbox hardcore, before satya pulls the plug as he waves them and their xbox libraries goodbye.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I don't think they increased the price in Canada. Looks the same?

 

[reinking]

I don't think they increased the price in Canada. Looks the same?

US only

 

[username12]

Inflation only happens under a certain administration? That's news to me. Thanks for letting us know.

Inflation happens when you shut down the world because you claim it will prevent people from getting sick, and people are dumb enough to believe that. This was obvious in March 2020 that not only would it not work, but it would backfire and cause widespread economic fallout. Your job may not be essential to some bureaucrat, but it's essential to you and anyone who depends on you.

 

[StereoVsn]

If it's Azure, it's not so bad... If they're demanding Office-level profits, then Xbox is screwed.
It's impossible for Xbox, a B2C consumer product, to have the same profits as Office, a B2B monopoly.

MS cloud segment has almost 40% growth and Cloud gross margins were around 70% I think. Hard to say which was Azure but the overall growth is very good for MS.

Mind you, Satya is spending $80bil on AI but it's still fine considering MS profitability.

Anyway, having expectations from the gaming division for these sorts of margins and growth is dumb.

 

[StereoVsn]

Ah, sorry that I had assumed things.

Basically there was this ruling by the EU that forces iphones to allow competing stores on their phone, because modern phones are treated like computers.
Article on it:
The actual law: Digital Markets Act

Separately, USA decided that computers are exempt from the 30% tariffs.
We are discussing the possibility of re-categorizing Gaming Consoles as Computers, thus bypassing the Tariffs. However I point out that doing so will trigger the EU Digital Marking Act and thus make the Consoles illegal to sell in the EU.

Then again, how much does Xbox sell in the EU anyway? I can imagine in an alternate universe, Xbox decided that they will just not sell to the EU at all and thus obeying EU law, just to save 30% price increase in America. And if rumors are true then the next generation Xbox would be EU compliant anyway.
EDIT: Nevermind. By calling the Console a Computer, it might violate 3rd party game contracts. So this is definitely a pipe dream.

The thing is than Xbox is at risk of being sued by companies like Epic for the closed walled garden.

And there could be licensing issues and questions from publishers. Completely classifying Xbox as a PC is risky.

I think next gen we will see the hybrid PC AND one labeled specifically as Xbox console due to above.

 

[Kenneth Haight]

lol they are literally just trying to burn it down at this point

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

he updated it... and still he is very salty