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[jshackles]

I'm sorry, but game development doesn't work that way. If a game is designed to run on a console with 20 GBs of RAM, there's no way it'll run on the xbox one s and be worth a darn.

You only have to look at PC as an example of how this works:

The developer is targeting (recommending) 16GB of RAM in this case, but the game will run with a minimum of 8GB.

Now let's dumb this down for console users:

 

[Rolling_Start]

OKAY FOLKS, THE T3 ARTICLE IN THE OP IS LIFTING PARTS OF A G.I. BIZ ARTICLE FROM SEVERAL DAYS AGO.

The original article does not even have the word "foreseeable" in it. It is also about twenty times longer. It actually seems to be about Gamepass, and not next gen.

Doesn't appear to say anything about there being no Scarlett exclusives down the line. Take a read of the original source material for yourselves:

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-11-14-how-game-pass-is-transforming-xbox

Whenever we speak to Microsoft at events like X019, it becomes increasingly clear that although things like its next console (Project Scarlett) and cloud streaming service (xCloud) are significant, Game Pass is the thing that is driving its business decisions. It was notable that at X019, Xbox announced two games that are releasing before its next-gen console, because it is vital that the firm keeps its Game Pass users engaged, more so than bolstering its Scarlett launch line-up.

"We feel confident about our content pipeline so that we feel we don't need to save everything up for that beat," Booty concludes.

The OP, and this thread, is being driven by a poor, clickbait article not worthy of being posted. The real deal is far more interesting and nuanced.

The OP needs updating.

 

[Racer!]

You only have to look at PC as an example of how this works:

The developer is targeting (recommending) 16GB of RAM in this case, but the game will run with a minimum of 8GB.

Now let's dumb this down for console users:

Let me dumb it down just for you.

Minimum system requirement will always hold software back, games or otherwise.

Thats why minimum system requirements continue to go up, and you cant run Crysis 3 on a 486. Not hard to understand. Really.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Actually I just went back and read what Matt Booty from Xbox actually said. The "foreseeable future" bit didn't come from him but from the girl that wrote the article, and is likely a click baity leap she made.

The actual quote from Matt Booty is rather softer and less definitive than we feared:

"Perhaps we feel confident about our content pipeline so that we feel like we don't have to save everything up. But then I will also say that, really for any device these days, when you launch a new device you are not eliminating all of the devices in that family. When Scarlett launches there will still be the Xbox One S out there, there will still be Xbox One X, and we really need to approach that family of devices, the same way we approach PC - content scales to meet the device. I think that's going to be the case for anybody."

If that is the case, then it is business as usual, like every gen. Just makes the transition smoother this time around due to the same hardware IPC ecosystem.

 

[CrisPy2019]

I would not worry to much. Doom2017 on Xbox one X vs switch also worked.

And nobody thought about the switch when Doom2017 was made.

Base XboxOne could still work with low settings (looks good today compared to 10years ago) 720p/600p and 30 fps.

And new effects that don't work on XBO just don't appear there.


I mean I still play BL3 on my i5 750 in 1080p at 50-60fps. Medium/some Ultra.

600p 30 low should be fine on old Xbox and for the people that can't or don't want to upgrade to the new gen.
Especially when you add an mcable haha.

 

[jshackles]

Let me dumb it down just for you.

Minimum system requirement will always hold software back, games or otherwise.

Thats why minimum system requirements continue to go up, and you cant run Crysis 3 on a 486. Not hard to understand. Really.

The picture I posted above was for the new Star Wars game. The FX-6100 (minimum CPU requirement) was released in 2011. Are you saying that the game suffered because they decided to support such an old CPU? Even though the PC version of this game outperforms it's console counterparts?

 

[Evil Calvin]

Every generation even gaming enthusiasts seem to have amnesia. Did everyone forget that PlayStation 2 was getting cross gen titles several years into the PS3’s life? Doesn’t mean it held back the PS3.

I mean I would go as far back as the Atari 7800 to give examples of this but that would mean most of the complainers wouldn’t be alive. And it seems to me that history seems to go back about 5 years for them.

Yes but PS3 games couldn't be played on a PS2 ---like Phil is saying here. Scarlett can be played on XBox S. That is a bad move. I can see forward compatibility (which is really what it should be called) meaning all old games are forward compatible with newer consoles but new Scarlett games should NOT be backwards compatible (which is what it SHOULD be called) with base Xbox One.

 

[Business]

How does this work with the new SSDs that are supposed to change how games are designed?

Sounds bad.

 

[ResilientBanana]

The picture I posted above was for the new Star Wars game. The FX-6100 (minimum CPU requirement) was released in 2011. Are you saying that the game suffered because they decided to support such an old CPU? Even though the PC version of this game outperforms it's console counterparts?

I don't think people actually understand what they're saying. They're just parroting what they heard elsewhere.

 

[Rolling_Start]

Yes but PS3 games couldn't be played on a PS2 ---like Phil is saying here. Scarlett can be played on XBox S. That is a bad move. I can see forward compatibility (which is really what it should be called) meaning all old games are forward compatible with newer consoles but new Scarlett games should NOT be backwards compatible (which is what it SHOULD be called) with base Xbox One.

Think you got that switched - back compat is old games running on new hardware. Forwards compatibility is new stuff running on old hardware.

But don't worry, no-one has actually said there won't be Scarlett games that can't run on the X1. The OP uses a quote not attributable to Matt Booty.

There's bound to be a period of cross generation games, but after a while PS5 / Scarlett / high end PC will be a market of its own too.

 

[Racer!]

The picture I posted above was for the new Star Wars game. The FX-6100 (minimum CPU requirement) was released in 2011. Are you saying that the game suffered because they decided to support such an old CPU? Even though the PC version of this game outperforms it's console counterparts?

Yes thats exactly what I say. Bravo.

The Jaguars from this console gen are basically tech from around 2009. GPU min req is from 2013, the start of this generation.

If min req was an amd Ryzen 7, you would see a completely different game. As youre probably about to see with this next gen. Well, from PS5 anyhow. Team Xbox will apparantly continue to drag their feet.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

This is actually a pretty great long term strategy. Microsoft is turning Xbox hardware into the equivalent of PC's iterative nature. I've got games on Steam from 10 years ago that still run great on my modern PC that's probably 10x more powerful than my PC was 10 years ago. There are new games that run okay on my current setup that I know will run amazing the next time I upgrade my PC. Not everyone can afford the latest graphics card, the fastest memory, the newest CPU, etc.

For everyone here saying "So a game that could be run on Xbox1S cannot be next gen, no matter how pretty you can make it look on Scarlet. " I present to you Red Dead Redemption 2 for PC:

This is the same game, running the same code.

Holy shit. Here I was trying to dial in RDR2 for a replay at the best settings with 60FPS but now I'm feeling like the pre-PS1 era version might be more up my alley.

 

[Evil Calvin]

Think you got that switched - back compat is old games running on new hardware. Forwards compatibility is new stuff running on old hardware.

But don't worry, no-one has actually said there won't be Scarlett games that can't run on the X1. The OP uses a quote not attributable to Matt Booty.

There's bound to be a period of cross generation games, but after a while PS5 / Scarlett / high end PC will be a market of its own too.

I know that's what they mean but when you think about the names and what they actually do is kind of 'backwards'. Think about it..........New games coming out for (Scarlett) which can be played on old consoles (Xbox S) kind of means 'backwards compatible'. Older games (Xbox) game being able to be played on a newer console (forward) SHOULD be called 'forward compatible'. But that is not the case as 'backwards compatible' has been a thing for over 20 years. But it's only now where we are really encountering a situation where a new console's games are supposed to be played on older consoles.

 

[Racer!]

Holy shit. Here I was trying to dial in RDR2 for a replay at the best settings with 60FPS but now I'm feeling like the pre-PS1 era version might be more up my alley.

RDR2 is a current gen game. If this game supported PS3, it would not look or play like this.

It would look and play like GTAV.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

RDR2 is a current gen game. If this game supported PS3, it would not look or play like this.

I....what? I think you need a firmware update

 

[Voost Kain]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yikes?

Maybe they mean the Xbox Scarlett family? Like how we have the Xbox One, S, and X? Maybe there will be a Scralett, Scarlett S, and Scarlett X?

I don't see how Microsoft could release games developed for Zen, to a console running on a Jaguar.

 

[Racer!]

I....what? I think you need a firmware update

Quoted wrong post sorry

 

[EverydayBeast]

Next gen will be fun regardless because you already have new games on the horizon, if they add backwards compatibility it will only strengthen the library.

 

[mckmas8808]

Anyone with common sense knows he means for the first couple years. Happened last gen gonna happen this gen.

Fable will probably be their first Scarlett-only game.

Is that common sense? Did he say that or are you assuming?

 

[Rolling_Start]

I know that's what they mean but when you think about the names and what they actually do is kind of 'backwards'. Think about it..........New games coming out for (Scarlett) which can be played on old consoles (Xbox S) kind of means 'backwards compatible'. Older games (Xbox) game being able to be played on a newer console (forward) SHOULD be called 'forward compatible'. But that is not the case as 'backwards compatible' has been a thing for over 20 years. But it's only now where we are really encountering a situation where a new console's games are supposed to be played on older consoles.

Well I think the term comes from the hardware's ability to run older software i.e. you support the instructions of the hardware from back in time ...

But the X1 almost certainly isn't going to be compatible with Scarlett binaries. Different hardware features and APIs. Better to just compile two game versions than to have the software need to query the hardware for supported hardware and API versions.

X1S and X1X will no longer be supported for more demanding games after a transitional period. That's necessary to stay competitive.

Though interestingly, the best selling games this generation have been GTA5 (last gen showcase) and Minecraft. With Fortnite (runs on a phone) owning the F2P thing. Oh well.

 

[Jigsaah]

This is not as big of a deal i think. PC developers create great games with a minimum specs requirement in mind, as well as recommended. It's no different here. Last Gen will gradually taper off just like hardware has, although it will be much more noticable for console because there's simply less SKU's to develop for.

Put it like this, by time next gen ends, there is no way graphically top tier Scarlett games or going to work on Xbox One, probably including the S. The X may survive it...but Microsofts claim goes against the nature of maturation of technology.

This sounds like it's just a way to make people feel comfortable buying this gen's offerings until next gen comes out.

 

[Rolling_Start]

Is that common sense? Did he say that or are you assuming?

It's certainly the most reasonable expectation given all of computing history.

And Matt Booty has said nothing to the contrary.

Put it like this, by time next gen ends, there is no way graphically top tier Scarlett games or going to work on Xbox One, probably including the S. The X may survive it...but Microsofts claim goes against the nature of maturation of technology.

MS have made no such claim, so far.

 

[Jigsaah]

MS have made no such claim, so far.

this is what I'm predicting

 

[Rolling_Start]

this is what I'm predicting

Sorry, I meant MS haven't made any claims about not dropping X1 / X1S / X1X support for their games across Scarlett's lifetime.

 

[Jigsaah]

Just thought about this. As an X owner...this means I don't have to run out and buy a Scarlett day 1. this would honestly push me towards a PS5 to buy first simply because that way I can play all the Next gen games albeit at a lower quality on Xbox One X.

I just don't understand how this pushes people to buy into Scarlett right away. I mean it's a good feature and all, and for those with no interest in PS5 it's awesome. However from a business stand point, I feel like people are going to settle into PS5 to the point where they will no longer want to buy an Xbox Scarlett. they may choose to buy a cheap X or even cheaper S instead just to make sure they have access to console based gamepassaaaannnd ohhhh ok I see what they're doing now.

This is all to keep gamepass alive.

 

[bitbydeath]

Phil is hoping third parties follow suit.

Spencer said he hopes the mentality Microsoft has toward cross-gen games will be adopted by third-party developers and publishers too.

“We think it’s a good thing that third-party games allow more players to play their games but it’s relationships with their parties. They own their content,” Spencer continued. “Just like some third-parties are in Game Pass and some are not and that’s their choice.

“I think for all of us the more a game can be the game and your players can play that game in the different places they want to play it and remain that their [save] state and everything is with them is a good thing.”

Xbox Play Anywhere cross-gen across Scarlett, One, PC: Spencer

Xbox Game Studios titles will aim to support Xbox Play Anywhere functions including cross-play, cross-buy, cross-saves and Achievements across Xbox One, Project

stevivor.com

 

[Rolling_Start]

Phil is hoping third parties follow suit.

Xbox Play Anywhere cross-gen across Scarlett, One, PC: Spencer

Xbox Game Studios titles will aim to support Xbox Play Anywhere functions including cross-play, cross-buy, cross-saves and Achievements across Xbox One, Project

stevivor.com

No, he's not saying that all 3rd party Scarlett games should run on X1, just as Matt Booty didn't say that all MS games would be on the X1 for the foreseeable future.

Phil Spencer is is hoping that more games support play anywhere. There's no mention of forcing games to target X1 in addition to Scarlett.

You still need to update your op with the original source for the quotes from Matt Booty, and ideally drop the top paragraph added by the T3 writer, who didn't actually conduct the interview, but who did mine a tiny part of a GiBiz interview (without crediting the original site and author) and add an inflammatory spin.

 

[bitbydeath]

No, he's not saying that all 3rd party Scarlett games should run on X1, just as Matt Booty didn't say that all MS games would be on the X1 for the foreseeable future.

Phil Spencer is is hoping that more games support play anywhere. There's no mention of forcing games to target X1 in addition to Scarlett.

You still need to update your op with the original source for the quotes from Matt Booty, and ideally drop the top paragraph added by the T3 writer, who didn't actually conduct the interview, but who did mine a tiny part of a GiBiz interview (without crediting the original site and author) and add an inflammatory spin.

The OP contains the original quotes. Even the one you copied above.

And I didn’t say force third parties, nor does Phil. He’s simply hoping they will.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I don't believe it. It will probably be a "doesn't mean min spec" scenario for most games and direct the player to the cloud streaming version.

 

[TheContact]

With Cloud computing, forward compatibility is very doable.

 

[brap]

lmao this thread really exposes the microsoft shills jesus christ.

 

[Three]

The most powerful hardware is always the lead platform, and then you scale down from there. That's how it's always worked. But people in there are living in Bizarro World to concern troll.

The most popular hardware is the lead platform. There are loads of xbox one x games where they have just scaled up the xbox one s version because the xbox one x is a tiny fraction of the market.

 

[mckmas8808]

You only have to look at PC as an example of how this works:

The developer is targeting (recommending) 16GB of RAM in this case, but the game will run with a minimum of 8GB.

Now let's dumb this down for console users:

You still aren't getting it. Lets put it this way......PC gaming would look 1,000% differently if the biggest PC games were available only on PC and the minimum requirements were an intel i7/ AMD Ryzen 7 1700 CPU, 16 GBs of RAM, and a Nvidia 1080 GPU/ AMD Vega 56 GPU. And then scale "UP" from these level of PCs. Imagine what PC games would look like then.

 

[ManaByte]

You still aren't getting it. Lets put it this way......PC gaming would look 1,000% differently if the biggest PC games were available only on PC and the minimum requirements were an intel i7/ AMD Ryzen 7 1700 CPU, 16 GBs of RAM, and a Nvidia 1080 GPU/ AMD Vega 56 GPU. And then scale "UP" from these level of PCs. Imagine what PC games would look like then.

That utopia would never exist as long as companies need to recoup dev costs by selling to as many people as possible. Unless you want to pay $200 per game like on the old Neo Geo.

 

[Racer!]

That utopia would never exist as long as companies need to recoup dev costs by selling to as many people as possible. Unless you want to pay $200 per game like on the old Neo Geo.

But that "utopia" exists in the console space.

 

[mckmas8808]

That utopia would never exist as long as companies need to recoup dev costs by selling to as many people as possible. Unless you want to pay $200 per game like on the old Neo Geo.

But this "utopia" will exist with the first sale of the PS5. That's the point that some of us are making. We "thought" the same would apply to the Xbox Scarlett. It's one of the best things about owning a console.

 

[diffusionx]

This is not as big of a deal i think. PC developers create great games with a minimum specs requirement in mind, as well as recommended. It's no different here. Last Gen will gradually taper off just like hardware has, although it will be much more noticable for console because there's simply less SKU's to develop for.

Put it like this, by time next gen ends, there is no way graphically top tier Scarlett games or going to work on Xbox One, probably including the S. The X may survive it...but Microsofts claim goes against the nature of maturation of technology.

This sounds like it's just a way to make people feel comfortable buying this gen's offerings until next gen comes out.

One of my questions is why does MS feel the need to turn the Xbox into a parallel PC when they already have the PC?

The idea that this is good because it turns the Xbox into a PC-like platform with different tiers is simply nutty to me, why do we need two of these markets? What's the advantage of console in this space if devs now are coding for 3 different Xbox platforms AND the PC? It just seems like MS is missing the forest for the trees. Just get rid of the Xbox and put your resources into Windows and the Xbox app.

 

[Jigsaah]

One of my questions is why does MS feel the need to turn the Xbox into a parallel PC when they already have the PC?

The idea that this is good because it turns the Xbox into a PC-like platform with different tiers is simply nutty to me, why do we need two of these markets? What's the advantage of console in this space if devs now are coding for 3 different Xbox platforms AND the PC? It just seems like MS is missing the forest for the trees. Just get rid of the Xbox and put your resources into Windows and the Xbox app.

Well, I might argue that both consoles are blurring the lines for pc, though I think playstation uses...linux? Don't quote me on that. I guess that maybe they wanna make consoles more like PC because they don't have a place in PC market hardware.

 

[ManaByte]

Well, I might argue that both consoles are blurring the lines for pc, though I think playstation uses...linux? Don't quote me on that. I guess that maybe they wanna make consoles more like PC because they don't have a place in PC market hardware.

Consoles using x86 processors PC GPUs makes it easier for developers.

 

[Jigsaah]

Consoles using x86 processors PC GPUs makes it easier for developers.

Also accurate.

 

[01011001]

haven't read the whole thread, so someone might have already brought up this possibility but...

could it be that he's talking about xCloud?

what if you buy a Scarlett game, you just see it as one if your games on Xbox One, and if you start it it will actually connect you to xCloud and you'll play a stream of the game.

and maybe Scarlett games will be buyable on the Xbox One store.

and for cross gen games that are enhanced on Scarlett, maybe you'll have the option to either play the local version, or play the Scarlett enhanced version over xCloud.

the Xbox One OS already has a feature to filter games by Console (Xbox One, Xbox 360, Xbox) just add a Scarlett option and mark them like 360 and og Xbox games are visibly marked as such.

this kind of seamless integration to the Xbox One OS and Store is maybe what he is talking about when he says that Scarlett games will be playable on Xbox One

______

you might ask what the difference would be to stream them on an Xbox One instead of just an android box or your phone,
and I can think of at least some bonuses you could get on an Xbox One.

for one you can activate your Xbox One as your home system and other people in your family/home could then stream your Scarlett games using their own Xbox account,
because I bet xCloud apps on Android etc. will not have an option to easily do that.

another bonus could be easy local multiplayer with no issues connecting 4 or more controllers.

and yet another would be that you'd have all your Xbox games on one device, just like you will have on Scarlett.
you have your One, 360 and og Xbox games as natively playable games, and your Scarlett games as streams.
so at least for older games you'd have the better experience compared to only using xCloud

 

[JLB]

haven't read the whole thread, so someone might have already brought up this possibility but...

could it be that he's talking about xCloud?

what if you buy a Scarlett game, you just see it as one if your games on Xbox One, and if you start it it will actually connect you to xCloud and you'll play a stream of the game.

and maybe Scarlett games will be buyable on the Xbox One store.

and for cross gen games that are enhanced on Scarlett, maybe you'll have the option to either play the local version, or play the Scarlett enhanced version over xCloud.

the Xbox One OS already has a feature to filter games by Console (Xbox One, Xbox 360, Xbox) just add a Scarlett option and mark them like 360 and og Xbox games are visibly marked as such.

this kind of seamless integration to the Xbox One OS and Store is maybe what he is talking about when he says that Scarlett games will be playable on Xbox One

______

you might ask what the difference would be to stream them on an Xbox One instead of just an android box or your phone,
and I can think of at least some bonuses you could get on an Xbox One.

for one you can activate your Xbox One as your home system and other people in your family/home could then stream your Scarlett games using their own Xbox account,
because I bet xCloud apps on Android etc. will not have an option to easily do that.

another bonus could be easy local multiplayer with no issues connecting 4 or more controllers.

and yet another would be that you'd have all your Xbox games on one device, just like you will have on Scarlett.
you have your One, 360 and og Xbox games as natively playable games, and your Scarlett games as streams.
so at least for older games you'd have the better experience compared to only using xCloud

Its talking about gamepass.
But we have to recognize that the clickbait used in the OP was pretty succesful, 8 pages considered.

 

[bitbydeath]

Its talking about gamepass.
But we have to recognize that the clickbait used in the OP was pretty succesful, 8 pages considered.

Let’s not try twist things. The article your referencing even compares how a new iPhone releases and previous iPhones can still play the same games as the new one.

They’re stating that Gamepass helped drive this change, everything in the OP is still accurate.

 

[Strife In a Teacup]

What he's really saying is that all scarlett games are playable across all other xboxes through streaming.. Only scarlett hardware can play these games natively.

I was waiting for this comment, reading through the thread. That's actually my first thought "Oh they mean through xCloud on X1S". Just like streaming it to a phone.

 

[Bathtub Fart]

This just reads like more issues and ruined potential because of devs needing to scale it for all platforms.

 

[Simpkin92]

Been with Xbox for 12 years now. Been weathering all of their storms. If they hold new games back just to make them “playable” on the horrible OG Xbox One hardware and PlayStation multiplatforms are noticeably better then I’m going to jump ship

 

[MilkyJoe]

Well this isn't going to make Xbox Two games look bad in comparison to PS5 exclusives at all.

How do PCs work?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Well, I might argue that both consoles are blurring the lines for pc, though I think playstation uses...linux? Don't quote me on that. I guess that maybe they wanna make consoles more like PC because they don't have a place in PC market hardware.

They do have Surface, they just have not gotten the PC audience to like what they are trying to train their console fans to like. The point made earlier stands: there are plenty of pre-assembled PC’s one can easily connect to a TV through HDMI, what is the point of consoles changing their software and development model to have the worst of both worlds? (developers not taking advantage of the latest and greatest for longer after launch and spending resources scaling their software and/or limiting their visions... or having the game run like crap in minimum required specs... and next to no openness for user tinkering/modding... a super closed down PC)

 

[Panajev2001a]

How do PCs work?

How do consoles work?

(let’s continue with this, sometimes quite disingenuous sounding, look that ignores 99% of those games are games designed around console HW limitations and then available on PC, let’s forget when it runs like crap on minimum spec PC’s, and let’s not think about the fact scaling down/up costs money and that money can be invested purely into the game budget if you are working on a console exclusive for the new generation device)

 

[bitbydeath]

How do PCs work?

PC’s set the minimum requirements on a per game basis. You can’t just play every game on any old system.