creamsugar
Member
Should we expect Xbox One 4K and gaming PC from MS?
Microsoft unifying PC/XB1 platforms, Phil implies Xbox moving to incremental upgrades
- Thread starter dancrane212
- Start date
Graphics Horse
Member
eh..let's take one step at a time!
Saintruski
Unconfirmed Member
so a windows box?
damn gabe you and your steam box got competition now!
EDIT: Wait does that mean a certain insider has been wrong all these years, it doesnt have dual gpus, or like 5TFlops and needs to be upgraded to achieve this?! someone should check his twitter and make sure hes still alive!
a secret sauce that can be poured on...interesting...
damn gabe you and your steam box got competition now!
EDIT: Wait does that mean a certain insider has been wrong all these years, it doesnt have dual gpus, or like 5TFlops and needs to be upgraded to achieve this?! someone should check his twitter and make sure hes still alive!
a secret sauce that can be poured on...interesting...
Trojan
Member
Night Angel
Member
You heavily implied that consumers would look favorably on an XB1.1 versus a PS4. If all you want to do is argue semantics, don't bother replying.
What I'm saying is that this shift in XB1s strategy no longer attracts the same market that current consoles do, given that it's a brand new thing that more closely resembles the PC marketplace than the current console market.
The XB1 is not a phone. It should not be compared to the phone industry. I could waste my time making a stupid analogy that doesn't fit so I can misrepresent your post, but I'd rather make an argument that stands on its own merit. Here it goes:
When given the choice between the PS4 and XB1, most of the market picks the PS4 for various reasons, only one of which is performance. Should MS release a new version of their machine, only that factor has changed. On top of that, the new machine will be more expensive, which we've already seen is a crucial factor in which console the market chooses (much more important than power).
The console market has proven gen after gen that power is NOT the deciding factor for most consumers. Why would the XB1 suddenly turn that around?
I believe that this move will shrink the existing XB1 market because it is changing the consumer experience to be closer to that of PC gamers. They aren't identical, obviously, but by stepping away from the norms of the console experience and getting closer to the PC experience (which is pretty much in their own words what they plan to do), I can see some XB1 gamers switching to PCs rather than buying a new XB1.X. I can't see this shift somehow stealing people away from Sony in the existing console market.
And we have no idea at all whether these iterations will add novel features like VR blowjobs and what have you, so I am REALLY, REALLY not sure how you expect to have a reasonable discussion with anyone when you can speculate that MS will give us the motherfucking moon and cast shade on everyone else in the thread.
The work for that isn't just the code port. It's tons of work to do it right. Or you aim super low a la the iOS App market. Then porting to anything else is easy.
Vroadstar
Member
I am not so sure competitive games which have the best sales and competitive ecosystems will care to fragment their user bases on a console like it is on PC. There is a reason why MLG shooters prefer consoles. PC games are best to legacy engines and Mobas where toasters can run them in a pinch at 60fps.
I am just not sure you will ever see anything more than a resolution and fidelity scaling. FPS doesn't make sense.
The expanded w10 base might lure folks but it would be dependent on only the w10 sales. The xb1 sales would mean little to that. Just as the w10 sales mean nothing to the 3rd parties regarding supporting the xb1.
Bear Force One
Banned
No matter what, you find ways to make everything they do ok. It's rather stunning.
What does that have to do with anything? I just started reading this thread. Seeing a post like that alone, out of context, it makes sense to me.
He makes an interesting point. *shrugs*
Night Angel
Member
It's not an interesting point when it's being used to refute legitimate arguments. It's a shady, shitty way to attempt to win an argument.
He's done similar things in multiple threads, and it's aggravating as fuck.
Is there something wrong with what he's said in that particular post?
Bear Force One
Banned
I just recognize posting trends and wow...
Carry on. I'll send a PM if I feel the need.
rokkerkory
Member
This argument again
Punkster_NY
Member
Sony, you need to do the same or you're done.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Microsoft will have to answer that question.
I don't think Microsoft doesn't thinks of the PC as a TV device. The Xbox is always the "living room" object. We'll see if they realize this is an outdated separation.
I take a more optimistic approach to what MS is doing and that's not liked around these parts. Granted I do know faults of MS and where it's warranted (and state as such) but i don't go doom and gloom for everything (which a lot of this thread has turned into an argument of if this approach to gaming consoles is viable or not). If I see a technology or process that I think has potential, I will speak on what I believe it could mean for that medium and how i personally use it and how others could potentially use it. Others have a different viewpoint. I tend to disagree with that and so...his looking at my posting trends lead me to believe (assumption) that I spin everythin into a positive where people have gripes about stuff. He's right that I do like to take a positive spin on certain things (assuming that's what he's thinking) but I know that I only do it in the sence that I like change for when i see a better outcome in the 'end' even though I am cognisant of the bumps along the way (as with every technlogy ever built).
EDIT: I should also note that I do think that Microsoft as a whole is doing the most ambitious thing in technology right now (One OS, One Dev platform, Many devices, etc...) and I do hope that they succeed (only to have great competitors to push each other to make better products and technology as I think all big tech companies like Apple, Google, etc... should do the same) in doing so. He did state "they" and I guess that's what he's referring to. I'm not shy about liking Microsoft products and I do know when they fuck shit up (XNA death...I'll forever be hurt by that one, GFWL, Kin, Surface RT, different parts of Windows, etc...) but I'm more optimistic about their plans with their new CEO and I also understand how long and hard software development is (being in the software development industry in a big corporation myself). That's probably why he stated what he did...instead of actually talking about the topic...it's easier to do.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
I'm no expert, but isn't that reason because watching a keyboard and mouse PC shooter competition pretty difficult? There's a lot of intense, rapid movement that's significantly faster than the console equivalents, and it's very difficult to watch.
valkillmore
Member
Could this result in an Xbox One eventually coming out that natively supports Oculus Rift?
We'd be arguing definitions as it seems they are out of the console biz and betting more on the PC market. Thus no XB2. only PC X.
PS. Apple. You can deliver it to a shelter or place they'd appreciate it.
A possibility, yes. I don't see no reason why it couldn't. Tech has advanced in the past ~2 years since the launch.
It's exactly what I said it would be. Exactly as I described it. They aren't out of the console biz at all. They are still launching standardized dedicated gaming hardware (consoles). And it will be marketed to the same audience as before. The fact that it will share a store with win10 doesn't make it anything other than a console.
These devices won't be intended to appeal to the PC market at all. It will be for people who want to buy a box, relatively cheaply, and be able to play games that are targeted to their hardware configuration.
It will be sitting right on store shelves next to ps4's and Nintendo. The idea that these devices will be aimed at the PC gaming market is, frankly, laughable.
No pie sir
This is expected, at least from MS. Console hardware is a lose business. It is hard to make money back directly , and when you only have chance to gather audience once every 6 years there is no room for mistake, or you are doom. See what happen to WiiU ane XboxOne. One (or maybe more) mistake and you have to live with it for another 6 years.
Also , game development should be base on OS and tool, not hardware. Mobile gaming shows how to make this work. So the newer machine will always get the benefit of having enemous existing libraries. And you have all game supported forever, no more generation change, game change , hardware backward compatibility bullshit. And everyone knows that console business doesnt scale very well. Obviously new game on new hardware will have to sacrifice some potential users , but it depends on how much they want tp support old hardware. I kind of see it as 3 models back supported or something (just like how iOS works only on couple of models back)
It is not the end of the world. Console hardware business model seriously need change. The current model doesnt scale. If you are not number 1 and sell 100M it would be hard to justify the cost and keep the business going.
Also , game development should be base on OS and tool, not hardware. Mobile gaming shows how to make this work. So the newer machine will always get the benefit of having enemous existing libraries. And you have all game supported forever, no more generation change, game change , hardware backward compatibility bullshit. And everyone knows that console business doesnt scale very well. Obviously new game on new hardware will have to sacrifice some potential users , but it depends on how much they want tp support old hardware. I kind of see it as 3 models back supported or something (just like how iOS works only on couple of models back)
It is not the end of the world. Console hardware business model seriously need change. The current model doesnt scale. If you are not number 1 and sell 100M it would be hard to justify the cost and keep the business going.
Ricerocket
Member
I can see why it couldn't. Price and heat. Rift min spec is a nvidia 970 with i5 4590. Takes up 3 usb slots? People don't like to hear it but get a PC.
Thank you for this post. I totally agree.
Do they? Last I saw the CSGO competitive scene completely eclipsed everything else outside of mobas.
Militant17
Member
What would this do to the console market. I'm willing to bet that a lot of gamers would be upgrading to the latest piece of equipment constantly almost like the mobile phone market. But my fear is that unlike with mobile phones there is not as big a market for second hand systems simply because the market isn't as big as the mobile phone market.
How would MS combat the constant flow of second hand consoles dropping on the market. Couldn't this stall penetration for older models and keep the overall attachment level for each console iteration considerably lower the the near 100 million sales we expect for a successful console.
I know architecture would largely remain the same to allow less rnd and cheaper to manufacture consoles but I feel like continual upgrades to greater tech would lower long term profits due to the drop in manufacturing prices we usually see with time. I mean if we got a new console every 1-2 years would there be enough time to even allow the console to get to that point in which it is at its most profitable.
How would MS combat the constant flow of second hand consoles dropping on the market. Couldn't this stall penetration for older models and keep the overall attachment level for each console iteration considerably lower the the near 100 million sales we expect for a successful console.
I know architecture would largely remain the same to allow less rnd and cheaper to manufacture consoles but I feel like continual upgrades to greater tech would lower long term profits due to the drop in manufacturing prices we usually see with time. I mean if we got a new console every 1-2 years would there be enough time to even allow the console to get to that point in which it is at its most profitable.
Saintruski
Unconfirmed Member
tiredheadcrab
Member
No see I think PC gaming will still appeal to a different audience. The hardware wont be up gradable and the new sku's probably will hit every few years instead of almost every year like nvidia or amd already do. It will still be plug and play. This argument doesnt hold water.
We'll see how it pans out. If it turns out to be a PC-lite then you owe a pie somewhere. If it seems ot be a full console. I'll donate $50 to a food bank pm you the reciept.
And how long will that "hold water"...price for both of those products go down. I'm not saying a new Xbox One is coming this year and will be your Oculus Rift ready gaming machine. I'm saying it's a possibility, not saying it will happen. But with the approach of bringing out another console every couple years we would be closer to that possibility than if we waited ~6 years just to get to that point (and by then be behind once again). It just seems smarter in my opinion to be able to adapt gaming consoles to new technologies as they come. That's my opinion though.
What part of history? Do enlighten us.
Samurai G0SU
Member
Whats different in consuming entertainment then versus now?
That would be a question to realllly think about. Ppl didnt think digital would take off and look at us now. Lol
That doesn't make sense. Tons of people watch CSGO tournaments, more than any other shooter by a mile. In comparison barely anyone watches MLG anymore, it became largely irrelavant as the audience of competitive console shooters like Halo began to lose interest.
Only Sega but Sega did it during a time in which there was no such thing as online ecosystems and games/apps being transferred across platforms.
Companies had to make games for each Sega box/device (e.g. NBA Jam for Genesis, Sega CD and 32X) and these products released pretty much every year until Sega faded out.
Steam box aka Xbox.
The Xbox console is dead. No matter how much spin and rationale that sounds good is added, it doesn't change the fact that this doesn't work. Might as well make the same case for why Steam boxes will take off. Reminds me of that Apple magic - apple does it = it will be successful cause...reasons.
Should open up room for Nintendo future-wise. But I have no faith in Nintendo...we'll see what NX is...
The Xbox console is dead. No matter how much spin and rationale that sounds good is added, it doesn't change the fact that this doesn't work. Might as well make the same case for why Steam boxes will take off. Reminds me of that Apple magic - apple does it = it will be successful cause...reasons.
Should open up room for Nintendo future-wise. But I have no faith in Nintendo...we'll see what NX is...
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
No it's all in line now. They all new about the next Xbox already.
Crayon
Member
It's not dead. It's in the cloud now looking down on us.
Iced Arcade
Member
I think this is just bad wording causing confusion like the majority of things when MS talks.
Night Angel
Member
Great rebuttal. I especially like how you explained your reasoning and made sure to focus on the whole of my argument rather than picking one thing. Hardware not being upgradable is the only thing that differentiates the PC/console experience. Yeah.
You have some good posts. You see the potential. MS is definitely an exciting company since the shake up. They seem to have new business level and corporate level strategies. I do wonder about them internationally though.
ProfessorMoran
Member
It has more to do with Xbox being a platform where MS owns the only storefront on said platform, this is not the case with PC, where everything from Origin to Windows games are merely storefronts but the pie is much smaller and most every product goes through steam.