The PS4 always seemed like the start of an annual/biennial release of hardware to me.
Could be wrong.
Microsoft unifying PC/XB1 platforms, Phil implies Xbox moving to incremental upgrades
- Thread starter dancrane212
- Start date
The PS4 always seemed like the start of an annual/biennial release of hardware to me.
Could be wrong.
Papacheeks
Banned
Well that's the issue actually is people on this forum are invested. And when you see a company make a move that ultimatley is a huge gamble, where does that leave you when it fails or doesn't pan out?
Leaves you not being able to have your console of choice anymore, because the comapny exited making consoles, and just had everything to a PC platform. So instead of spending 300$ for a console with a game, your paying 800+ the game, monitor etc, just to play the games that got you interested in that brand to begin with.
If this doesn't pan out, it will be a sega situation all over again. Only difference is you won't see games outside of windows 10 come anywhere else. So your forced to go PC if you want to play gears, halo, forza if they fail on console side and bring their whole library over to Windows 10 store.
therealbigrich
Member
I was not speaking on the 360 at all more the X1 elite console and I can not think of any reason the elite was made other than just to just upgrade the console and maybe see how it would do .
This has been a pretty interesting discussion in this thread so far except for some of you seemingly "above" discussing what this could potentially mean for MS down the road. So do us a favor and either explain why you might disagree or stop junking up the thread with crap posts.
Why do you keep talking about it as if it's just a theory? The CEO has explicitly stated he thinks only about 3 products (Azure, Windows, and Office), with everything else being parts of those pillars, and Xbox, its first-party studios and Xbox Live service, will be used to drive Windows across PC, console, mobile, and HoloLens.
I suppose you can say Xbox was demoted in the re-org if that's important to you to see it like that. One could also say the Xbox division is better off being one of the main parts of the Windows strategy when the new CEO re-aligned every part of the business behind his mobile-first vision. Perspective. No harm in leaving you to yours.
Their intentions to move out of the traditional console hardware market has also been made crystal clear. The traditional console model doesn't fit anywhere within the CEO's agenda no matter how you spin it. Gaming does fit in his strategy for growing Windows, because he explicitly said so. With what Spencer has said thus far, they'll obviously be some type of Windows 10 machine more akin to a PC, perhaps in small form.
Long term? I suppose the Xbox team will make games wherever they see the most traction in the Windows Store. Ultimately that could be PC, tablet/laptop, phone, HoloLens, or something else they haven't made yet. It could also include a device for the TV for all time to come. We'll see.
RowdyReverb
Member
I can't wait for this year's E3. Between this stuff and Nintendo's NX, there going to be a lot to look forward to.
Papacheeks
Banned
They might have designed it that way in how they chose components. But with the PS4 selling so well and continuing to sell, I see them taking a wait and see approach. Doing what Microsoft is doing, si something a company would do once sales start to stagnate and decline.
Which is the case for Microsoft at the moment, not for Sony.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I said "if" for a reason.
They don't have to be in the same position to change their model of selling hardware differently.
Funny part is, someone from Sony R&D I believe it was out of Japan was the first to hint at this last year, stating the luxury of now being x86/64 could potentially give them the ability to upgrade the hardware during it's generation to have more power with forward compatibility with the software.
All 3 want the service model Android and iOS have, it makes for longer term customer base. Gamers want the forward and back compatibility with their software purchases they enjoy on the mobile front. All 3 will be adopting gaming as a service, not unlike Valve did first on the PC front.
We just have to wait and see how it plays out on the hardware level. Yearly would be excessive, 2.5-3 year revisions, with all compatibility I can see being more successful.
Agreed.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
Microsoft is positioning themselves to possibly drop out of the console business. You appear to have an agenda to confuse this point when everyone who is claiming "Microsoft will drop out of consoles" has spent plenty of time and given plenty of clarification, and I'm not sure why.
We don't know if Nintendo is going this route or to what degree. We know they want their account system to be more flexible than it was in the past, but we also know they still want to develop hardware.
Setting aside your Sony Too logic, Sony has already done this to a certain degree with cross-play, cross-buy, backwards compatibility for certain legacy digital purchases, Remote Play on PC, PS Now on other platforms, etc.
Thing is, PS4 is still Sony's foundation. PS4 is still Sony's premium gaming kit.
Can you honestly say that the Xbox console is Microsoft's foundation after these recent moves? Can you honestly say these moves are being done to position the Xbox One as a premium destination for gaming? Or will you believe their own words when they say they want Xbox to be "another device to play your Windows-account games"?
Xbox as a console is being de-emphasized, which leads a lot of people in this thread to speculate what this means and how it will affect gamers. Granted, this shift in direction may be good for some people depending on how Microsoft handles it, and this shift may be "a newer, better way of doing consoles", but it is a SHIFT AWAY from how consoles are traditionally handled. As such, it is perfectly normal to speculate how moving away from the traditional console model may also lead to the loss of traditional console model benefits. Surely that makes sense to you, yea?
How do you think Xbox One sales are going to look like this year? Before Xbox 1.1 is released?
I can promise you that sales aren't "irrelevant" when it comes to the bottom line of the Microsoft's Xbox Division. They make money off Consoles, games, and XBL gold subscriptions and none of these announcements are going to help for 2016.
potatohead
Member
Does this have anything to do with the system RAM in Xbone being DDR3? Even though it is unified unlike PC atm.
Makes me wonder, maybe. DDR as system ram common between PC and Xbone. I duno.
Maybe future Xbone branded PCs (with APUs + unified RAM like some of those AMD laptops) will be coming too, not just console iterations taking the flagship of the Xbox name, that would be interesting.
Makes me wonder, maybe. DDR as system ram common between PC and Xbone. I duno.
Maybe future Xbone branded PCs (with APUs + unified RAM like some of those AMD laptops) will be coming too, not just console iterations taking the flagship of the Xbox name, that would be interesting.
I literally asked a question two pages ago and no one answered. Man, what more do you want me to do? Pole dance for attention? No one wants to see this tub of lard pulling moves, no matter how good I may or may not be at them.
That's what I mean. It's like they took a 'fresh' start to hardware design, which could be easily upgradable and allowing compatibility with software. The OS must have been designed with this in mind though.
I get the argument. My point is its an unknown - including to MS - how the market will react overall.
Sure they're guaranteed a core that will rebuy but it's obvious that for any of the current console vendors the hardcore is actually a relatively small number vs the total market-share.
If the actual uptake on refinement is small and the actual value for developers to invest in versions of games that can exploit better hardware is small it doesn't work.
If a majority take new versions and its worth developers investing in games that exploit latest hardware and support older versions (a'la PC model) then it'll work.
But nobody and no analysis is going to be able to define this. Until MS try to make it work it'll be an unknown and the reaction will define whether its a success or not.
Omnistalgic
Member
Very interesting.
I would say all companies pretty much need to make there platforms do the talking now instead of the console itself. I'm sure Sony MS, Steam and Nintendo all want to be the video game equivalent of IOS and Google Play store. Steam seems to be the closest thing to it so far, I guess the IOS spot is up for grabs, this seems like a logical way to get there, I'm all for companies trying new things.
I don't think MS is the only one thinking about it either, and I'm not sure it will be as dramatic as 2 year cycle for every console.
I could easily see Sony releasing a Ps5 and MS releasing a Xbox 2 with full B/C and based on the same architecture. Cycle will just be 4 instead of the usual 5-6. I prefer it actually.
Year 1 console release
Year 2 console revision (OS/HDD/Etc..)
Year 3 slim release
Year 4 console upgrade
Rinse and repeat
Makes next gen exciting if nothing else.
I would say all companies pretty much need to make there platforms do the talking now instead of the console itself. I'm sure Sony MS, Steam and Nintendo all want to be the video game equivalent of IOS and Google Play store. Steam seems to be the closest thing to it so far, I guess the IOS spot is up for grabs, this seems like a logical way to get there, I'm all for companies trying new things.
I don't think MS is the only one thinking about it either, and I'm not sure it will be as dramatic as 2 year cycle for every console.
I could easily see Sony releasing a Ps5 and MS releasing a Xbox 2 with full B/C and based on the same architecture. Cycle will just be 4 instead of the usual 5-6. I prefer it actually.
Year 1 console release
Year 2 console revision (OS/HDD/Etc..)
Year 3 slim release
Year 4 console upgrade
Rinse and repeat
Makes next gen exciting if nothing else.
There is no specific relationship with ddr3 and this move. Ddr3 is just the cheapest commodity ram right now. Why most pcs and the xb1 use it. Gddr5 is just a high bandwidth variant of ddr3. Ddr4 isbout but somehat expensive and a ddr4 based gddr6 variant isn't out yet to my knowledge.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
It seems that we disagree about nothing, at least in the post of mine you quoted.
I have some strong opinions on the value of a "traditional" console -- and perhaps that's for another thread or PMs -- which is why I feel strongly that this move will have significant ramifications for the Xbox console brand (as we have normally thought of it up 'til this point) including some bad things that are likely to happen.
MilkyJoe
Member
Bitch Pudding
Member
Well, Sony Too is part of his agenda, he actually said Sony should follow MS' lead and offer all their IPs on PC as well because "good for gamers". Should explain a lot.
perfectsil
Member
I would love to get a more powerful xb1/ps4, will buy both right now
You mean this?
Regarding not having a new successor, there will certainly be a new Xbox, but there will never be a generational leap again like we know it today, at least with Xbox. What I mean with generational leap is cutting off the previous system for new games that can only be run on the new system, which inspires consumers to purchase the next edition.
It's a whole new pathway that signals an exit out of the console market as we know it, and into PC territory where they want to ultimately be anyways. You can be out of the console market while still having a console presence. Look at Valve.
Well said, thank you.
I agree with you, and others, that their new strategy may not work out for them in the console market. I just don't agree that it's absolutely certain the market will reject it.
I think in the case that it does fail the Xbox team would focus on making games for the devices where they are seeing MAU growth and revenue.
EDIT: I have some pretty strong opinions as well that I would like the traditional console market to die ASAP. I hate all the hardware, but I love all the games so I have no choice. I am looking forward to the day I don't need to purchase a proprietary device from Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. My dream world looks something like a Apple phone, a Windows laptop, and a Sony TV, where I have access to everything on the Windows Store, PSN, Steam, iTunes, etc. Not sure I'll see that in my life time, but I am feeling pretty confident that the traditional console business is coming to an end and I couldn't be happier about it.
If I am interpreting their architecture correctly, the Xbox One is using hypervisors for each of it's operating systems. They already abstract the hardware with a hypervisor layer. They should be able to change the hardware underneath so you can play old (meaning current) titles and new titles. I hope they do it, as the Xbox One is too underpowered in its current form. If you went PS4 this round, you could get a Xbox when the specs significantly surpass the PS4 and you will have access to the entire Xbox One games catalog.
A bit on the architecture:
http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/22/4356280/xbox-one-architect-operating-system-is-the-xbox-ones-game-changer
A bit on the architecture:
http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/22/4356280/xbox-one-architect-operating-system-is-the-xbox-ones-game-changer
It's a huge gamble and their priority does seem to be the w10 store.
I think too many things need to go exactly right or exactly opposite to how the market has reacted before.
Omnistalgic
Member
That's not going to happen if Sony (or Nintendo) want to establish PSN further and their respective platforms. Psnow is probably the extent that you'll play Sony published games on PC. I think it could work, I mean UC4 will probably sell I dunno, 10 million or something crazy? At least 2 million more people will play that on PC. But are you devaluing the PlayStation brand with a move like that? If so? How much? Is it worth it to do it since people with a PC expensive enough to run the game isn't the target audience for a Ps4 anyway.
Not as simple to just do what MS is doing here since they have a monopoly on the desktop environment.
Good lord...No.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Of course they wont, that's the point.
JayWood2010
Member
I feel that there is a thing as being too invested in something. I wrote out an article last night, though I cant post it at this moment since its on my computer at my house, so I wont give you my full opinion on the topic of Xbox and PC. I will reply to your sega situation and "exiting console" comment though.
Consoles is a mainstream product, where as gaming PC's tend to be for gaming enthusiasts. This really shows during the holidays when consoles are sitting under the christmas tree where as not too many kids are getting gaming pc's during the holidays. On the other hand you cant ignore the rising popularity for gaming PC's
Xbox has also been successful with consoles including Xbox One. I can say with certainty that xbox is not going anywhere in terms of home consoles and i am in disbelief with comments that says or implies this.
Its the exact reason I dont want to go through much discussion on it. People will say what they want, as the internet is good for, but I would much rather see well thought out discussion than console war babble. Thats why i have a hard time reading this stuff. While a lot of people can discuss intellectually, there is others who dont, and those are the comments that gets attention much of the time.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Yes, but Windows is NOT known as a world wide brand when it comes to gaming either.
irrotational
Member
a
So let me get this right, we may potentially get new hardware that 'adds' extra rendering capability while keeping the hardware platform both forward and backwards compatible.
We could see something like;
Xbox Baseline SKU - 1080/30 capable
Xbox 1.1 - 1080/60 capable with high settings
Xbox 1.2 - 4K /30 capable etc etc
Each additional requiring purchase of the base console. And all of your purchases are valid regardless of SKU. So I could potentially play Witcher on 1080/60 on my Xbox with this setup? Yes please.
It's an interesting way to decouple the hardware and merge the software development.
We could see something like;
Xbox Baseline SKU - 1080/30 capable
Xbox 1.1 - 1080/60 capable with high settings
Xbox 1.2 - 4K /30 capable etc etc
Each additional requiring purchase of the base console. And all of your purchases are valid regardless of SKU. So I could potentially play Witcher on 1080/60 on my Xbox with this setup? Yes please.
It's an interesting way to decouple the hardware and merge the software development.
Perhaps in the short term it's a flop, but if you think out 10-20 years consumer preferences may be very different. I don't think the trend of device convergence and cloud-based app and service availability will just stop anytime soon, nor do I believe that gaming will be the exception to it. In 10-20 years we may be talking about cloud game streaming services the same way we talk about Netflix and phones that can dock for any big screen experience you need.
EDIT: I think we can all agree that the technology landscape won't stay the same when historically that hasn't been the case, so it's foolish to think about the future of Microsoft's gaming initiatives on today's terms only.
Chalupa Batman
Member
foamdino
Member
So there's this:
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/223858-the-new-gears-of-war-ultimate-edition-is-a-dx12-disaster
Which sounds like there's a specific issue with specific AMD cards right now - title a little hyperbolic, but not a good start to the win10 store
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/223858-the-new-gears-of-war-ultimate-edition-is-a-dx12-disaster
Which sounds like there's a specific issue with specific AMD cards right now - title a little hyperbolic, but not a good start to the win10 store
Graphics Horse
Member
Yeah. Most uncertain part is if older games like W3 run any different, they might need to be patched for that.
therealbigrich
Member
I feel like that is what everybody thought before a big industry change. I really know if it would work or not myself but I am curious
Guys, i don't know if it's been posted but the video of Phil saying this has made it online
Xbox Spring Showcase 2016: Phil Spencer conference Video 360° [29:11]
It's worth a watch.
Xbox Spring Showcase 2016: Phil Spencer conference Video 360° [29:11]
It's worth a watch.
seentursch
Member
I like the idea of always keeping your games. I also think if they could make it easy to upgrade an existing box and did it every 3 years for a decent cost then this would be a great model for gamers. If people are happy with the way the games look then they don't have to upgrade. Maybe the consumer will want to do it at the 6 year or 9 year mark instead. I would be a bit worried that they would need to make all games developed playable for a very long time without upgrading. I do think that this could be the future for all consoles. My only concern is that the xbox one has a bit of a stigma and I don't love the name. Maybe they need to ride this console out and get it right with the next and then start this model.
Papacheeks
Banned
I think your misunderstanding the narrative some of us have. I don't think Microsoft is going anywhere "right now" as in this generation. But if this plan on moving titles over to PC with how shitty Geas of war ultimate have been don't pan out in gaining the new customers that they are aiming for.
And their refresh idea on their hardware mid-generation doesn't go over too well both commercially, and also developer wise, then you could see a huge shift of developers leaving the xbox platform behind.
It's a very huge "if" and with Microsoft's track record and recently the example of how they are treating PC versions of their games as just more or less traight port extensions of the console counterpart and not allowing PC players to utilize their PC configs to their fullest.
It's hard for people like myself and other's to put faith in this new strat that it's going to pan out and expand the customer base like they want to.
And we've seen it done before by other companies in a different time, that ultimately killed the platform.
I wonder if they're looking at the GPU market and seeing a trend there that suggests it's a growth market? Would be interesting to take a closer look at Nvidia's financials as well as consumer purchase behavior in terms of hardware cycles.
Branniganz Love
Member
I just don't see this as an exit strategy, why continue to dump money into a brand they are trying to kill off? If they wanted out they would just quietly slow support and let the xbox one die or try to sell it off. This is more like pushing all your chips to the middle of the table. If it doesn't work then I fully agree, Xbox is dead. If consumers decide to support this model they stand to shake up the entire industry and how we view console generations. Personally I hope they succeed.
MS would be better off having a decent CPU and like 8-16gigs of ram and a swappable GPU that they release every 2-3yrs at a price point of $125-150.
That would be more feasible than expecting people to shell out $400 every couple years. And that 2-3yr cycle will help the consoles age well if the CPU and ram on the launch model is adequate enough.
I assume they'd be getting their GPU from AMD. Nvidia wouldn't strike a deal with any console manufacturer I don't think. If there's a base unit with upgradeable parts, wouldn't that just reveal its true nature as a closed-platform PC? At which point it's competing with PC upgrades.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
You'd have to wait like 2 years after the original Xbox Baseline came out.
It seems more like an issue with trying to make a dated-as-hell engine use a brand-new graphics API. Hopefully, the store won't shit it's trousers too much after this, I need Killer Instinct to be at least functional.
Not following the discussion here, but...
Isn't the appeal of a console being able to run games without the player having to worry about specs?* Also, isn't bad to split your userbase like that?
Not trying to speak the truth or anything, just genuinely curious.
Isn't the appeal of a console being able to run games without the player having to worry about specs?* Also, isn't bad to split your userbase like that?
*I know that technically does not apply to some games like AC Unity, but still...
Not trying to speak the truth or anything, just genuinely curious.