Support NeoGAF

[krypt0nian]

I hope the next X-BOX does launch early *cough*prematurly*cough* so that the REAL competition between Nintendo & Sony can go unhendered!

Who are the current X-BOX fans and those interested in the X-BOX? Those who are clutching to a security blanket. They see Microsoft in gaming and they think: "Microsoft will use thier power, money & influence to take over the market eventually" so they buy into the X-BOX 'cos they believe that Microsoft will do things to make themselves another monopoly. After watching the DreamCast fall 'cos of Sega's lack of power, money & influence people are VERY werry about thier investment so it's no wonder Microsoft's X-BOX looks so attractive to them. And Microsoft has backed this belief by supplying the industry with the most powerful console this generation, aquiring game developers by merely spending some of thier pocket change, dumping millions into advertising, millions more into exclussive deals and even more into a huge XBL network (mainly just a status and image thing, it hardly makes any real difference with such low broadband penetration). They also added features being the first console with an ethernet connection and a built-in hard drive. They've been "generous" and while some of that is needed to "break in" to the industry, most of it was just to give the impression that they wanna take over this industry by buying thier way in. I guess there's nothing wrong with that, we'd do it too if we were jumping into console arena with billions in the bank to "help out", but what the problem is that next generation they're taking all of those securities away.

Launching early AND with a more profitable (for them) system architecture in mind they're doing just that. X-BOX's biggest security blanket or "edge" is it's power...it's why people hold it in a higher respect and why ALOT of people bought it. From what we know now the next generation X-BOX will be the least powerful of the three 'cos it's earlier technology and is being produced with profits in mind (in other words, not like the original X-BOX). So where does that leave X-BOX fans without thier security blanket? On top of which (again, from what we know now) the X-BOX will not include backwords compatibility NOR a hard drive. Which means they're taking away a feature they tried to establish this generation (HD) and then they're taking away an industry standerd (BC) that the other console makers WILL be including! BC may not be much to existing X-BOX fans, but to potential fans it's a wanted feature 'cos they may have been waiting for the next X-BOX so that they could experience it's games *as well as* the first X-BOX's games. Without BC, IMO, the next X-BOX is gonna kill potentail sales and while we've beaten this issue to death in other topics I'm gonna leave it at that. Then, ON TOP OF everything else, current X-BOX fans and potential fans looking on the sidelines will lose a sense of security in seeing Microsoft cut short this generation...and without BC to help this transition a lil' it'll look even more premature in the eyes of consumers...high profile internal games and exclussives will be shifted to the next generation too soon just so that Microsoft can stop the bleeding & get a "headstart" on the competition...that's not serving the fans, that's serving themselves.

And as this article points out, the market doesn't truly shift until the leader of said market moves it. Now where are third parties gonna be: a starting over user-base & occassional (probably less than this generation) money hat from Microsoft to support a premature "next generation" X-BOX or a very profitable (due to learned/cheaper developement environment, lower licencing and a HUGE user-base to milk) PS2 in wait for the real next generation? I think we ALL know the answer...

Damn well said. While it is based on some assumption (xbox 2 specs), using what we "know" now it all falls into place.

Lack of hardware superiority is going to make the graphic whore think twice next gen, new Madden or not. Dreamcast had a next gen Madden and it caused a great stir at first. Then came the steamroller of public opinion called "Real Ultimate Power" Sony hype.

Then it was all over. It sure as shit will be interesting next gen, no matter what the outcome.

 

[Pachinko]

Regardless of when anything launches, if I bother to buy a new console in the next gen, it won't be until after the first price drop , by then it should be apparent which console is actually with the plastic its made from.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I hope the next X-BOX does launch early *cough*prematurly*cough* so that the REAL competition between Nintendo & Sony can go unhendered!

Whatever.

Who are the current X-BOX fans and those interested in the X-BOX? Those who are clutching to a security blanket. They see Microsoft in gaming and they think: "Microsoft will use thier power, money & influence to take over the market eventually" so they buy into the X-BOX 'cos they believe that Microsoft will do things to make themselves another monopoly. After watching the DreamCast fall 'cos of Sega's lack of power, money & influence people are VERY werry about thier investment so it's no wonder Microsoft's X-BOX looks so attractive to them. And Microsoft has backed this belief by supplying the industry with the most powerful console this generation, aquiring game developers by merely spending some of thier pocket change, dumping millions into advertising, millions more into exclussive deals and even more into a huge XBL network (mainly just a status and image thing, it hardly makes any real difference with such low broadband penetration). They also added features being the first console with an ethernet connection and a built-in hard drive. They've been "generous" and while some of that is needed to "break in" to the industry, most of it was just to give the impression that they wanna take over this industry by buying thier way in. I guess there's nothing wrong with that, we'd do it too if we were jumping into console arena with billions in the bank to "help out", but what the problem is that next generation they're taking all of those securities away.

You smokin' crack, man. You seriously think that the average XBOX owner owns it because they believe that MS is going to win by buying up the market? It's called games, man.

Launching early AND with a more profitable (for them) system architecture in mind they're doing just that. X-BOX's biggest security blanket or "edge" is it's power...it's why people hold it in a higher respect and why ALOT of people bought it. From what we know now the next generation X-BOX will be the least powerful of the three 'cos it's earlier technology and is being produced with profits in mind (in other words, not like the original X-BOX). So where does that leave X-BOX fans without thier security blanket? On top of which (again, from what we know now) the X-BOX will not include backwords compatibility NOR a hard drive. Which means they're taking away a feature they tried to establish this generation (HD) and then they're taking away an industry standerd (BC) that the other console makers WILL be including! BC may not be much to existing X-BOX fans, but to potential fans it's a wanted feature 'cos they may have been waiting for the next X-BOX so that they could experience it's games *as well as* the first X-BOX's games. Without BC, IMO, the next X-BOX is gonna kill potentail sales and while we've beaten this issue to death in other topics I'm gonna leave it at that. Then, ON TOP OF everything else, current X-BOX fans and potential fans looking on the sidelines will lose a sense of security in seeing Microsoft cut short this generation...and without BC to help this transition a lil' it'll look even more premature in the eyes of consumers...high profile internal games and exclussives will be shifted to the next generation too soon just so that Microsoft can stop the bleeding & get a "headstart" on the competition...that's not serving the fans, that's serving themselves.

BC will likely be an add-on. As for its importance, I'm pretty certain that people who buy any system (outside of the GB-opoly) for it are a very small minority. The hard-drive may or may not be in the next system as standard. Obviously, with an online service and an ambitious plan for it, a form of massive rewrite-able space will be available...MMORPGs and downloadable content pretty much need this. DX10's virtual video memory needs this. I don't think we're going to see the Custom Soundtrack option go away...so, it's my firm belief that there will be something in there to serve the purpose of the HDD in the XBOX 1.

And as this article points out, the market doesn't truly shift until the leader of said market moves it. Now where are third parties gonna be: a starting over user-base & occassional (probably less than this generation) money hat from Microsoft to support a premature "next generation" X-BOX or a very profitable (due to learned/cheaper developement environment, lower licencing and a HUGE user-base to milk) PS2 in wait for the real next generation? I think we ALL know the answer...

The issue of when a next-gen begins is completely up for debate, but I'd say that it begins when the first new console is released. MS has lower-licensing costs than Sony, AFAIK. Otherwise, we'll see how this turns out.

 

[Insertia]

I think Xbox2 could pull a 2005 release off fine if it launches with a completely SWEET looking Perfect Dark 0. I mean, something that'll drop jaws, blow away peoples expectations, and leave no doubts in anyones mind about a '05 launch.

Also a next gen Madeen with top notch graphics and gameplay improvements would be a plus...but I don't know how large that would be considering it'll still likely perform better on PS2.

The downside is, if Xbox2 launches in '05, PS3 will be more powerful, that alone is the single biggest blow Xbox can recieve. If Xbox2 isn't the most powerful, what does it have going for itself?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

If Xbox2 isn't the most powerful, what does it have going for itself?

Games?

 

[Insertia]

Games?

Well for starters, Xbox receives very little Japanese support (and the eastern titles that it does receive often aren't anything worth mentioning).

Next, the current Xbox doesn't have many breakout hits that Xbox2 can rely on. In it's entire 3 year span its has only had one title that's performed exceptionally well in both the U.S and Europe.

And if Xbox2 is the least powerful that kind of defeats the purpose of buying multi-platform for Xbox2. Madden for XBox2 will be highly ignored if it's also on the technically superior and more popular PS3.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Well, I believe that the costs and general difficulty of making games for the next-gen will garner more Japanese support because it will be a bit easier to get product out on the X2 due to MS' efforts at making an easy-to-develop-for platform and that multi-platform releases will still be the order of the day. The fact that the XBOX 1 is the second-most popular console outside of Japan will also play into gathering more Japanese support as the trend in Japan seems to be that more globally-oriented games will make any popular platform in the west a development target.

Large Japanese games-support is also fast becoming irrelevant as Western-developed titles are squeezing them out as the primary source of succesful titles. In any case, I see XBOX 2 having far more Japanese support than that of the first console. Don't forget that MGS Japan will likely play a much bigger role in the lifetime of the X2 than the X1.

Though I believe that XBOX 2 will be a more 'powerful' system than the Revolution, it's looking like they'll be behind the new Sony system. Regardless of the power-ranking in the next-gen, XBOX 2 will have more than just token software support. If you believe what you're saying, I think you're going to be disappointed.

 

[cvxfreak]

Well, I believe that the costs and general difficulty of making games for the next-gen will garner more Japanese support because it will be a bit easier to get product out on the X2 due to MS' efforts at making an easy-to-develop-for platform and that multi-platform releases will still be the order of the day. The fact that the XBOX 1 is the second-most popular console outside of Japan will also play into gathering more Japanese support as the trend in Japan seems to be that more globally-oriented games will make any popular platform in the west a development target.

Large Japanese games-support is also fast becoming irrelevant as Western-developed titles are squeezing them out as the primary source of succesful titles. In any case, I see XBOX 2 having far more Japanese support than that of the first console. Don't forget that MGS Japan will likely play a much bigger role in the lifetime of the X2 than the X1.

Though I believe that XBOX 2 will be a more 'powerful' system than the Revolution, it's looking like they'll be behind the new Sony system. Regardless of the power-ranking in the next-gen, XBOX 2 will have more than just token software support. If you believe what you're saying, I think you're going to be disappointed.

I still think without a good hold of the Japanese market, then you can't truly be victorious in the console wars. Japan is the reason Nintendo is in second place and the stability of the Japanese market keeps the Xbox from advancing even further in terms of market share. Japan is Nintendo's savior here.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I still think without a good hold of the Japanese market, then you can't truly be victorious in the console wars. Japan is the reason Nintendo is in second place and the stability of the Japanese market keeps the Xbox from advancing even further in terms of market share. Japan is Nintendo's savior here.

I agree. Next-gen, MS will hopefully fare better there...they certainly couldn't do worse than what is going on now...

 

[disabledHeliocentric]

The first xbox has had issues getting quality software across the board until the last six months or so. They will have to do better if they want to define the next gen.
Certainly, they won't do well in Japan until they do a lot better in NA and EU. And I don't necessarily think they need a lot of Japanese publishers on their side to do well in the U.S. and Eu. But once they do well in those markets they probably will have some Japanese publishers on their side which would help them immeasurably in Japan.
One problem is that so much of the western developed software is multi platform.
And a lot of the more PC oriented development goes by cycles which may not be satisfactory unless those companies perhaps hooked up with Microsoft to help them out with development resources, publishing etc. in a way more suited towards Microsoft's desire to rule the console roost.

 

[Calibur]

If Perfect Dark Zero comes out on the XB2 without the Laptop gun Microsoft have lost the next-gen wars :$

Laptop gun = best weapon ever

 

[SolidSnakex]

That's ironic, considering squaresoft has finally made it clear they are more than a little interested in jumping onboard for Xbox2--especially considering MS's new online stance.

Are you going off that quote where Square said they'd "look into" developing for the Xbox 2? Similar how they "looked into" developer for the Xbox.

 

[NWO]

That's ironic, considering squaresoft has finally made it clear they are more than a little interested in jumping onboard for Xbox2--especially considering MS's new online stance.

Yes just like how they were "interested" in the first Xbox. If a developer ISN'T interested in a new console then you know its in trouble. I don't know how having somebody interested in making something for the Xbox2 is a plus, EVERYONE should be interested at the start because that's going to be your "height" interest for it.

 

[AniHawk]

Well, a plus for the Xbox is that it could have the PS2 effect. The system may be underpowered, but if it has enough time to build a small userbase based on the fact it has the best looking games for about a year, it might be enough to combat Sony and Nintendo when they release more powerful (though in the case of Nintendo, that might not be the case), more expensive new systems. Imagine PS3 and Revolution launching for $300... At the same time, Xbox 2 drops to $200 (or $180). It wouldn't be looking terribly worse (probably the difference between the PS2 and Xbox), it would have a userbase, some hit games (PD Zero, EA Sports, possibly Halo 3 by 2006 if MS works Bungie like dogs), and a nicer price than the other systems. I don't think it'll be dead in the water at all.

 

[User 406]

Just for fun...

There's an aspect to the comparisons to Sega and the Dreamcast that people are overlooking. While Microsoft certainly isn't in the overall financial situation Sega was, they are bleeding money at a prodigious rate with the project, as fast if not faster than Sega was with the 32X/Sega CD/Saturn. It was pointed out earlier in the thread that marketing for the Dreamcast was nearly nonexistent, since they couldn't afford it. Now that Microsoft has already made it clear they are focusing on not losing money on Xbox 2, wouldn't it also follow that the big marketing budgets they boasted about putting into the Xbox may see some curtailment next generation?

The main difference between Microsoft and Sega here is that Microsoft is answerable to their shareholders while Sega was answerable to their bill collectors.

Also...

With the Genesis, Sega had strong technology and a strong marketing campaign, and they ended up taking half the market. Some people are saying that Microsoft is looking to make Xbox 2 their "Genesis" next generation. But they're already planning to spend a lot less money than they did on their first attempt. So that at least is one comparison to Sega that doesn't work. :X

 

[DopeyFish]

With the Genesis, Sega had strong technology and a strong marketing campaign, and they ended up taking half the market. Some people are saying that Microsoft is looking to make Xbox 2 their "Genesis" next generation. But they're already planning to spend a lot less money than they did on their first attempt. So that at least is one comparison to Sega that doesn't work. :X

yeah, um... of course they're looking to spend less money... because Xbox didn't age well in cost of production. So really, it's spending better instead of spending less.

Also considering what the rumored specs are... it's still going to be an expensive piece of equipment.

 

[CrimsonSkies]

Nobody has any idea what Microsoft has spent to develop the Xbox sequel. The only leak I've seen is that they plan to triple their advertising budget this go round from the original Xbox launch.

 

[GigaDrive]

I do not believe Xbox 2 will be badly outclassed by PlayStation 3. yeah the PS3 will almost certainly have alot more floating point performance than Xbox 2, but that extra performance might be needed to make up for, and do in software, what Xbox 2 has hardwired into its ATI (or ATI-MS) graphics processor. I am expecting really great things from ATI on this one. It's been said by ATI's commander in chief Dave Orton that Xbox graphics is getting contributions from all three of ATI's design centers: marlborough, santa clara, orlando. It will be interesting to see what Sony has been able to muster by itself for PS3's graphics, the backend of the rendering pipeline. traditionally they have been well behind everyone else. PSP's GPU is an improvement over PS2's though.

I think it is safe to say that all three consoles will be putting up graphics on screen in-game, somewhere in the hundreds of millions of polys/sec. compared to the current consoles which do not see more than ~20 million polys/sec and often much less.

 

[LuckyBrand]

Dreamcast had a next gen Madden and it caused a great stir at first. Then came the steamroller of public opinion called "Real Ultimate Power" Sony hype.

Then it was all over. It sure as shit will be interesting next gen, no matter what the outcome.

Dreamcast had a madden? ughh... what world are you from?

 

[AniHawk]

Nobody has any idea what Microsoft has spent to develop the Xbox sequel. The only leak I've seen is that they plan to triple their advertising budget this go round from the original Xbox launch.

Holy Jesus.

$1.5 billion for advertising. Is that REALLY necessary? I mean DAMN.

 

[CrimsonSkies]

"Holy Jesus.

$1.5 billion for advertising. Is that REALLY necessary? I mean DAMN."

I don't think they spent $500 million at launch. Over the lifetime of the Xbox maybe.

 

[DopeyFish]

$500 million was for launch and the first 6 months iirc. and it was a worldwide number.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

No way it will come out next year. There has been no word of it, no working games shown, no hardware displayed, no nothing. Even if the sysem is ready by 2005, software delays will no doubt push it to Spring of 06. You can quote me on that.

Well, it's not like we saw any true Xbox software or somewhat-done hardware until 2001, either. They were freer to hype earlier, though, because the only current-generation consoles they risked eating into the sales of were Nintendo's and Sony's.

 

[LuckyBrand]

i cant wait for there to be actually INFORMATION regarding xbox 2, and seeing all the crazy threads.. there is absolutely no need to actually DEBATE xbox 2 and how wel it will do.. considering we know NOTHING. makes me laugh at all the "DOOMites" in this thread already though..

 

[TheGreenGiant]

i cant wait for there to be actually INFORMATION regarding xbox 2, and seeing all the crazy threads.. there is absolutely no need to actually DEBATE xbox 2 and how wel it will do.. considering we know NOTHING. makes me laugh at all the "DOOMites" in this thread already though..

STFU you little xbot. That's like telling the GAF not to debate PSP, DS, XBOX2, PS3, N5. Watch while this little forum implode. Its all negatively geared. Just sit back and enjoy the soothsaying.

 

[suaveric]

A 2005 launch would all depend on two games- Madden and Perfect Dark. You can count on EA being ready, but I would hate to have to depend on Rare. They missed both the N64 and Gamecube launches with their games. Microsoft would have to start lighting fires over at Rare right now if they plan on being ready.

That being said, I do think that Xbox 2 does have a good shot next time around. A lot of the casual gamers that I work with have nothing bad to say about Xbox, even if they own a PS2. There's a window there for Microsoft, they just have to hit it with everything they've got.

 

[Evolution VIII]

First doesn't always guarantee success. Sega was first to the market three times, and aside from the Genesis which enjoyed some success, it had failed miserably. If I were MS, I would actually launch at the same time as Sony so as to steal some of the thunder away from Sony as opposed to coming out first. Unless MS has a massive product that all of the masses will want (which it won't), then coming first out the gates won't do too much good for them. At least when coming out at the same time with Sony, MS won't fall behind to quickly and can still establish a solid second place, assuming Nintendo doesn't decide to come out at the same time.

 

[NWO]

i cant wait for there to be actually INFORMATION regarding xbox 2

Me too.

Then that will shut up all the people who believe they aren't launching in 2005 and that they won't have a harddrive or BC or Halo at launch.

Geez if you want to get mad at anybody then go after MS who is content on killing this generation off early. They were the ones who stated it and thus you have these threads. It not like the original poster pulled this information from his ass or something.

 

[LuckyBrand]

i am still waiting to hear where that one guy got Madden for his dreamcast...

he even talked about maddens effect on dreamcast...

 

[DJ Sl4m]

There's no doubt, releasing early could lead to ulimate doom for Xbox Next, it just depends on the hype gathered.

It could also lead to sucess, personally I think whoever leads with the most hype, will sell the most consoles, not that it will lead to the most overall profits.

Whoever lauches second is my pick to take it all.

I won't buy Xbox Next till Halo3 releases, for the first time ever I wont buy a launch console, and that dates back to atari 2600/intellivision years. sadly, no game has my interest like the Halo series right now.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

There's no doubt, releasing early could lead to ulimate doom for Xbox Next, it just depends on the hype gathered.

It could also lead to sucess, personally I think whoever leads with the most hype, will sell the most consoles, not that it will lead to the most overall profits.

Whoever lauches second is my pick to take it all.

Well there's no doubt that launching first isn't the whole picture. I think what most people, and this article are reacting to is the MS' own (over?)emphasis on launching first. It's understandable that MS would want to present success/failure as being dependant on such a simple factor, because it allows them, from a PR point of view, to try and circumvent the more difficult factors that determine it. In particular for MS, Japan, the massive hype and brand power of the Playstation name and how much of the current Xbox userbase is there because it is the most-technologically advanced and feature-packed console and will being first and aiming for a more cost-effective console jeopradise that.

The DC examples shouldn't be taken verbatim but more as an illustration that just because PS3 wont be on the shelf, doesn't mean that MS aren't going to have to deal with its hype.

In Japan, has MS got a foot in the door, or have they got a disillusioned fanbase? That question can also be extended to Japanese developers. And as much as Japan hasn't been kind to Xbox, Xbox hasn't really been that kind to Japanese games.

 

[LuckyBrand]

this thread needs a south park style "rabble rabble rabble"...

anyone think RARE property games would help sell the system in US/UK still?

Killer Instinct 3
Banjo Kazooie 3
Perfect Dark Zero

those used to be some huge franchises, if they were being made for xbox 2, would they carry alot of weight?

i think perfect dark zero, properly marketed, could be a HUGE game for xbox 2..

and I think they'll need Halo 3, not for launch, but for releasing right before PS3 launches, or same week.. IMO.

 

[CrimsonSkies]

I wonder if they could convince Blizzard to create Diablo 3 for the XBox 2 launch? That would be an amazing launch game.

I figure Blizzard North is working on the PC version. They haven't shown anything since Diablo 2: LOD. I'd wager that next year at ETCS they'll have an announcement for the PC at least.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

I am expecting really great things from ATI on this one.

Then you should expect even better things from ATI with the Revolution, an extra year to dev can make all te difference.

It's been said by ATI's commander in chief Dave Orton that Xbox graphics is getting contributions from all three of ATI's design centers: marlborough, santa clara, orlando.

The above is completely false. They have one team and one team only on the Xbox: Marlborough. Santa Clara is dedicated to Nintendo and Orlando is doing, who knows what? Come to tihink of it, what have they done???

 

[DopeyFish]

hehe, next year will be so awesome

 

[JJConrad]

Doesn't rare have like 7 console teams and 2 portable teams? It makes you wonder what they have been working on since?

Maybe Rare will be quite ready for the X2 launch? I don't know for sure... but I'm fairly certain all the console teams haven't been working on porting Conker or porting Kameo, that's for sure.

I remember thinking the same thing about Rare during the N64 days. It's an easy trap to fall into because it makes sense. Unfortunatley, Rare defies all logic. Remember, Rare was one of the first companies to recieve both N64 and Gamecube development kits and provided a launch title for neither. Don't ever count on Rare being ready on time.... EVER!




The Xbox 2's greatest threat with an early launch will be the PS2 (two). If they can't get developers willing to commit to true "next-gen" titles, instead of PS2 or PC ports, the system will have a hard time keeping its head up. This was probably the biggest nail in the DC's coffin. While the system was powerful enough to be considered a "next-gen platform", with half of its line-up being PSX, N64, or PC ports, it never established itself as one.

 

[DarienA]

things such as a foothold in the game industry, respect from developers, and something they've never really had before, a fanbase.

If by fanbase you mean people purchasing and MS product because they actually like it? Well they already have that on PC side, both in applications and in gaming.

 

[GigaDrive]

duckhuntdog wrote:

Then you should expect even better things from ATI with the Revolution, an extra year to dev can make all te difference.

yes, I expect even more out of Revolution graphics because of the year or so of extra time.

duckhuntdog wrote:

The above is completely false. They have one team and one team only on the Xbox: Marlborough. Santa Clara is dedicated to Nintendo and Orlando is doing, who knows what? Come to tihink of it, what have they done???

yeah I know we all thought Santa Clara/ArtX was strictly Nintendo but guess what? I'm gonna take Dave Orton's word for it. who should I believe?

http://www.beyond3d.com/interviews/daveorton/

If you dissect in, for example, to the R600 product, with is our next,
next generation, that development team is all three sites - Orlando,
Silicon Valley, Marlborough[b/] – but the architectural centre team is in
the Valley, as you point out, but all three are part of that
organisation.


Would I be correct in suggesting that mainly Marlborough and Orlando
would be the R&D centres – with the design of various algorithms for
new 3D parts – while the Santa Clara team would be primarily
responsible for implementing them in silicon?

No, because the architecture of the R300 and R500 is all coming from
the Valley, but we've got great architects in all three sites.

Bob Drebin in the Valley is in charge of the architecture team and so
he's in charge of the development of all the subsequent architectures
but he goes out to the other teams key leaders and that forms the
basis of the unified architectural team. At an implementation level,
you're right – Marlborough is mainly focused on the "special projects"
and that will probably be another 18 to 24 months for them. So the
R600 family will mainly be centred primarily in the Valley and Orlando
with a little bit from Marlborough, and then the R800 would be more
unified.

Xbox 2 graphics, if based on R600, would have some contribution from all three design sites. that said, Santa Clara's main job is Nintendo graphics, while Marlborough's main job is Xbox 2. but I'm sure they all help each other where they can. Orlando (remnants of Real3D) is helping on everything I would think.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Wow, don't know what I did to warrant that kind of riff from you, but to answer you, yes--the fact that square stated that MS's interests for Xbox1 did not represent a compelling enough difference for the PS2, while MS's new stance with xbox2, live, and perhaps even xna did represent a serious interest for them this time around, then yeah, I see it as a possibility. Here's a thought: How about sparing me the condescending remarks next time? Lord help anyone who isn't gloom and doom. Hell, the term "Bleeding money" is getting about as over used as "bad art". Xbox is an investment--It's not unheard of, especially for MS, to sink serious cash into breaking into a profitable market. Xbox has given them a great deal of returns besides the simple promise of cash down the road--things such as a foothold in the game industry, respect from developers, and something they've never really had before, a fanbase. As such, I don't see them as being another "SEGA". However, I'm not going to join in the new console speculation just yet, because nobody knows shit. So you may want to count to ten before you get all hot and bothered the next time someone mentions squaresoft out of Sony's context. k?

Well one thing is that Sony's already set that they're planning a Live style format, so that'll make Square happy as the was the thing they mentioned interested them most about the Xbox.

Square's never supported a console that didn't show it could do pretty decent in Japan on it's own. The PSone did pretty well in Japan before they even announced support, same for the GC as of recent. They'd both shown that games could sell. The Xbox has yet to show even a glimmer of hope that it can sell in Japan. Now ofcourse the Xbox 2 could be a completely differen scenario. But I seriously doubt Square is just going to jump on board with MS without any proof beforehand that the system can actually sell there along with software.

 

[DopeyFish]

Well one thing is that Sony's already set that they're planning a Live style format, so that'll make Square happy as the was the thing they mentioned interested them most about the Xbox.

Square's never supported a console that didn't show it could do pretty decent in Japan on it's own. The PSone did pretty well in Japan before they even announced support, same for the GC as of recent. They'd both shown that games could sell. The Xbox has yet to show even a glimmer of hope that it can sell in Japan. Now ofcourse the Xbox 2 could be a completely differen scenario. But I seriously doubt Square is just going to jump on board with MS without any proof beforehand that the system can actually sell there along with software.

Glimmer of hope? didn't the Xbox outsell Gamecube 1 week this year when Ninja Gaiden was released? It shows that there's interest but Microsoft doesn't exactly have Japanese-like games in a good quality to sell. If they ever get a good portfolio, things might change. It's just the whole portfolio thing that's killing them!

 

[CrimsonSkies]

The Xbox remains to bulky and big to sell in the Japanese market regardless of software titles.

 

[xsarien]

The Xbox remains to bulky and big to sell in the Japanese market regardless of software titles.

That really isn't issue #1 with the XBox in Japan...

 

[DopeyFish]

issue #1 is the games, really the only thing that's going on is localising western games and a few oddball Japanese games left and right.

 

[kaching]

Well, I believe that the costs and general difficulty of making games for the next-gen will garner more Japanese support because it will be a bit easier to get product out on the X2 due to MS' efforts at making an easy-to-develop-for platform and that multi-platform releases will still be the order of the day.

I think we need to wait for MS to actually deliver on the easy development promises because they've been saying that since the announcement of the Xbox and before, with DirectX. I'm not saying their tools don't ease development at all, but how significantly they affect development in relation to other platform development is debatable. If you look at the two platforms where easy to develop for DirectX has been used, Xbox and PC, it doesn't appear as if you see significantly quicker development cycles or significantly fewer delayed games or significantly higher quality software. In fact, its arguable that there are more frequent and significant delays to Xbox or PC exclusives and more ambiguous "when its done" release dates than there are for Playstation or Gamecube exclusives.

 

[Kobun Heat]

Another issue is simply the way they went about marketing it - rather than ally themselves with a Japanese company like McDonald's and Starbucks did, they decided to do it all themselves and of course fucked up mightily.

Xbox is now so stigmatized in Japan that they're going to have major problems lining up content for the next system, no matter how good it is.

 

[BeOnEdge]

i think everyone(fanboys)are hell bent on seeing xbox tumble just as much as fanboys wanted to see the ps2 fail and that didnt happen. XBOX 2 will not fail. The xbox can do a ton more polygons than the ps2 but its not why the games look better. its the effects that are applied to the polygons. I'd almost say half the time ps2 games are STILL pushing more polys that xbox games but the lack of texturing kills the effect.

There will be no huge gap in graphics next gen. forget about it. MS will not let X2 fail. gakman mentioned xbox live and broadband and how penetration is low. its a FACT that people are dropping 56k at an alarming rate and going broadband because DSL can be had for 26.95 these days compared to AOHells 23.90. Also, isnt part of the whole CELL thing networked computing? over broadband? I guess broadbands low penetration only effect MS.

One of the main reasons DC choked was no EA and the fact that sega had no money or strong 3rd party support even. MS wont have that problem. All MS needs is a good launch and a good round of games(halo 3)saved for when ps3 launches and there will be no worries. Another thing is this whole blue ray thing. Will the ps3 get stuck using an off media? the DVD consorteum seems to really dislike sony and blue ray right now. Not that it matters for the games but for HD DVD playback, blueray could hinder the ps3 more than help if its included.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Glimmer of hope? didn't the Xbox outsell Gamecube 1 week this year when Ninja Gaiden was released? It shows that there's interest but Microsoft doesn't exactly have Japanese-like games in a good quality to sell. If they ever get a good portfolio, things might change. It's just the whole portfolio thing that's killing them!

That's not a glimmer of hope when the system has a hard time even selling 1k units in a week, and most of the time it can't even clear 500 units a week in Japan. It's also only sold 20k units so far this year. Last year it sold 97k units as a total for the entire year.

 

[Fallopian Tube]

Glimmer of hope? didn't the Xbox outsell Gamecube 1 week this year when Ninja Gaiden was released?

Nope.

http://game-science.com/news/000481.html
http://game-science.com/news/000482.html

 

[BeOnEdge]

xbox had NOTHING for japan at launch and to this day have NOTHING for japanese gamers. MS wont make the same mistake for X2 and if they do, theres always EU and USA. look at the worldwide numbers for GC and XB? close eh? even though xbox sells 3 units a week in japan.

 

[SolidSnakex]

xbox had NOTHING for japan at launch and to this day have NOTHING for japanese gamers. MS wont make the same mistake for X2 and if they do, theres always EU and USA. look at the worldwide numbers for GC and XB? close eh? even though xbox sells 3 units a week in japan.

While that's true, Nintendo has also built up a 3rd party backing that they haven't really had since the SNES era, and that seems like it's going to follow them into the next gen too. So they'll definetly see more of a sales boost in other territories due to the 3rd party backing they're seeing. While still the Xbox's Japanese support is about as bad as you can get. That really doesn't show any signs of changing anytime soon, if anything it seems to be getting worse with the TFLO cancellation. Basically the only thing they have going for them as far as Japanese support goes is Team Ninja. And depending on whether or not Itagaki sticks to his word of wanting to develop for the most powerful system so his games can be as good as possible, they won't even have them next gen.