Typomancer
Neo Member
I actually did not think to use Drain on captains. So bizarre, I should have done that against my worst nemesis. I usually just stun lock them with the wraith pimp hand.
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Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor |OT| One Title to rule them all
- Thread starter Levyne
- Start date
I actually did not think to use Drain on captains. So bizarre, I should have done that against my worst nemesis. I usually just stun lock them with the wraith pimp hand.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Loving this game although I haven't found anything too challenging yet. I'm sure that's to come though
I did manage to piss off two captains at once, one being the ranged fire crossbow guy that shoots exploding bolts. I didn't last too long against them both
My only real complaint is getting runes. I have like 7 bow runes and like 2 sword, 2 dagger runes
I must have misunderstood the chart they showed because I thought you got runes depending on the weapon you used. I always kill with sword but always get bow runes instead
Yeah the game gets pretty hard when the varities of enemy types are thrown at you. Honestly IMO it gets a lil too spammy, there can sometimes be like 30 orcs on you and juggling all the different tactics for each enemy type can get crazy.
Same thing except I got speared and fucked up the last chance.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I've done plenty of ground assassinations, maybe I wasn't doing them at the right time.
EventHorizon
Member
Inceptional
Member
I swear an orc just called me a cunt. Time to lop some more heads off, fuckers!
SwiftDeath
Member
For Captains/Warchiefs you have to get them down to low enough health to finish them. Ground assassinations and combo breaker insta-kills [not sure what those are actually called] won't kill them until they are low enough, they do a lot of damage though
Yeah I figured as much. They just introduced shield guys in the last mission I did. Welp
DualShadow
Member
So frustrating to have to wait till next week for my PS4 copy after seeing everyone having so much fin playing, stupid Australia.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Only issue is you have to get it to a 1v1 unless you upgrade the drain thing to go faster. That and it's not very stylish
I was finding the game really difficult, then I unlocked the jump/stun move and it's made the big fights a lot easier. I've played for about 8 hours and I've only killed 3 Warchiefs. I'm working on my 4th, got all his bodyguards dead, but I have to kill 20 guys in 2 minutes to draw him out and I'm having a hard time with that. Might just pick another bodyguard. Not dying is key, once I took things a bit more cautiously, I finally started making decent progress.
I'm also finding the game pretty difficult, but I am getting better.
I'm also finding the game pretty difficult, but I am getting better.
Think you're thinking of Right Bumper (grab). Lets you interrogate, drain, kill.
I pretty much interrogate all my captains if possible. Haven't had any come back yet.
I'm thinking on doing the same just to get in the mood of LOTR. It probably isn't required to understand the storyline on the game, but I always like to refresh my memory about the setting and everything.
A little background for me: I have played the batman games, but not much, and only on the Wii U. I haven't beaten them and found myself tiring of them quickly. Combat reminded me of Assassin's Creed counter system. Just keep spamming one attack button and then countering when the icon pops up. Piece of cake.
That somewhat is how this game works too, but there just feels like there is a lot of depth. It also HEAVILY encourages you to actually use stealth - it is so easy to get overwhelmed when you haven't full scouted an area nad taken out the archers or the surrounding enemies before deciding to take on a captain. I made that mistake too many times early on and watched as hordes of enemies kept piling on and I would get raped.
This game is so unique in how it works, I love it. Story is decent so far - I love how I have an "Inside man" I am trying to help advance through the ranks, and I love how it the game treats you like you don't know anything - like the fact I know who Golem is, but it pretends I don't. Makes it an easy game for ANYONE to get into even if you know nothing of the lore.
Look, you can take out a level 19 captain an hour into the game if you want. It can be done (I've done it). The game is hard, not hard in the "omg it makes it impossible by always swarming you", but hard because you have to carefully scout your plans out. I kid you not. You need to scout the area, kill off the archers and other surrounding captains before you worrya bout your target. Study the target and learn the weaknesses, and yes, sometimes a great strategy is to lure them into traps - like clearing an area and then "calling them" so they walk towards you, and you keep baiting them then set loose a hound on them (or whatever they are called, I forgot). Sure, some will kill the hound, but you can then get it after some damage has been done. With all the surrounding friends taken care of already, there are no "new guys" for him to call to for aid.
It's all in the approach. What makes the game hard is that it doesn't TELL you to do that. You have to figure out the strategy on your own, and as others have attested, there are multiple ways to go about it. Are you great at quick pull head shots with the bow? That can change strats for you in that of itself - personally, I am not good with the head shots, especially under pressure.
Does the game punish you for failing? Yes, it does - and that is refreshing. Too many games hold your hands, or even get easier, the more times you fail. This game encourages you not to fail - to work hard and think - don't just run in arms raised trying to take out all you can (like you can do in Batman and Assassin's Creed). It is very much a thinking man's game.
Even tugog, who seems nearly impossible, can be beaten (I haven't faced him yet). A friend of mine beat him in a couple minuets using Drain - an ability often forgotten unless your reloading that one ammo thingy or whatever. (I actually forgot what Drain is for). The point is, it is an ability you have and it does do damage. Even to Tugog. He may take damage from finishers, but Drain works outside those parameters and works on every enemy in the game unless that enemy is immune.
The thing is, the game itself doesn't TELL you that. It has an excellent prologue that gives you the bare basics in how to fight, and that's that. You need to figure out everything else for your own.
Few tips:
Take out the lower tiered generals/captains before going after a higher (3rd or up) tier. This can greatly reduce the chance of grouping them.
Take out surrounding enemies before engaging.
Take advantage of your surroundings. Attempt to do as much damage to them as you can before you even engage in close range combat. Even if say, a guy is immune to range (as most are), they are not immune to blowing up the campfire, or poison in the drinking barrel.
The neat thing about this game is that while it punishes you harshly for failing, that's the only way I learned. If it just let me keep repeating my mistake with no punishment, I may get frustrated and just not play. Instead, getting punished makes me think - what went wrong? Okay so these other captains piled on, alright, where are they before the fight? Do they have a path that walks close enough to be called? Can I easily dispatch them?
So much to think about before doing any engagement. I find the folks that really complaina bout hte difficulty as a bad thing are just trying to play this game like it's Batman or Assassin's Creed, and it's not. Unlike AC, stealth, stealth kills, doing as much as you can without being noticed, is a must.
That somewhat is how this game works too, but there just feels like there is a lot of depth. It also HEAVILY encourages you to actually use stealth - it is so easy to get overwhelmed when you haven't full scouted an area nad taken out the archers or the surrounding enemies before deciding to take on a captain. I made that mistake too many times early on and watched as hordes of enemies kept piling on and I would get raped.
This game is so unique in how it works, I love it. Story is decent so far - I love how I have an "Inside man" I am trying to help advance through the ranks, and I love how it the game treats you like you don't know anything - like the fact I know who Golem is, but it pretends I don't. Makes it an easy game for ANYONE to get into even if you know nothing of the lore.
Look, you can take out a level 19 captain an hour into the game if you want. It can be done (I've done it). The game is hard, not hard in the "omg it makes it impossible by always swarming you", but hard because you have to carefully scout your plans out. I kid you not. You need to scout the area, kill off the archers and other surrounding captains before you worrya bout your target. Study the target and learn the weaknesses, and yes, sometimes a great strategy is to lure them into traps - like clearing an area and then "calling them" so they walk towards you, and you keep baiting them then set loose a hound on them (or whatever they are called, I forgot). Sure, some will kill the hound, but you can then get it after some damage has been done. With all the surrounding friends taken care of already, there are no "new guys" for him to call to for aid.
It's all in the approach. What makes the game hard is that it doesn't TELL you to do that. You have to figure out the strategy on your own, and as others have attested, there are multiple ways to go about it. Are you great at quick pull head shots with the bow? That can change strats for you in that of itself - personally, I am not good with the head shots, especially under pressure.
Does the game punish you for failing? Yes, it does - and that is refreshing. Too many games hold your hands, or even get easier, the more times you fail. This game encourages you not to fail - to work hard and think - don't just run in arms raised trying to take out all you can (like you can do in Batman and Assassin's Creed). It is very much a thinking man's game.
Even tugog, who seems nearly impossible, can be beaten (I haven't faced him yet). A friend of mine beat him in a couple minuets using Drain - an ability often forgotten unless your reloading that one ammo thingy or whatever. (I actually forgot what Drain is for). The point is, it is an ability you have and it does do damage. Even to Tugog. He may take damage from finishers, but Drain works outside those parameters and works on every enemy in the game unless that enemy is immune.
The thing is, the game itself doesn't TELL you that. It has an excellent prologue that gives you the bare basics in how to fight, and that's that. You need to figure out everything else for your own.
Few tips:
Take out the lower tiered generals/captains before going after a higher (3rd or up) tier. This can greatly reduce the chance of grouping them.
Take out surrounding enemies before engaging.
Take advantage of your surroundings. Attempt to do as much damage to them as you can before you even engage in close range combat. Even if say, a guy is immune to range (as most are), they are not immune to blowing up the campfire, or poison in the drinking barrel.
The neat thing about this game is that while it punishes you harshly for failing, that's the only way I learned. If it just let me keep repeating my mistake with no punishment, I may get frustrated and just not play. Instead, getting punished makes me think - what went wrong? Okay so these other captains piled on, alright, where are they before the fight? Do they have a path that walks close enough to be called? Can I easily dispatch them?
So much to think about before doing any engagement. I find the folks that really complaina bout hte difficulty as a bad thing are just trying to play this game like it's Batman or Assassin's Creed, and it's not. Unlike AC, stealth, stealth kills, doing as much as you can without being noticed, is a must.
BrassDragon
Member
He's vulnerable to stealth. I think the error is that people get too fixated on the mention of finishers and combos so they lead him to others. Isolate him at a building, duck out of a sight and backstab/aerial kill the sucker. Down in 4 hits.
Mattdaddy
Gold Member
I did a side mission that was to upgrade my sword, I think. It was kill a bunch of orc trainees in 3 minutes or something, bonus pts for executions. After I finished I thought it said I unlocked an ability to perform multiple executions in succession... But I can't figure out how or find anything even referencing the ability. Anyone know how to do this?
Surely I can't be the only one who thinks the combat is sluggish and the controls generally lack crisp responsiveness. Is it user error? Or is this one if those games where sluggish input is just part of the deal?
I feel more like a puppeteer than immersed in the moment to moment. Maybe I just don't get it.
Hopefully I can overcome the initial bad taste in my mouth after the first couple hours. The Orcs look great, the nemesis system seems like it could be interesting, and the Middle Earth setting plucks the right notes in my heart.
I feel more like a puppeteer than immersed in the moment to moment. Maybe I just don't get it.
Hopefully I can overcome the initial bad taste in my mouth after the first couple hours. The Orcs look great, the nemesis system seems like it could be interesting, and the Middle Earth setting plucks the right notes in my heart.
Art Vandilay
Member
This makes me want to go buy it for some reason
VibratingDonkey
Member
This geezer showed up and told me: "burning me with blablablah eh?" or something. No idea what he was on about. Think he had me confused with someone else. He defeated me, I killed him, he became alive again and now he's my nemesis.
My nemesis story sucks. I feel like he's artificially butting his way in and going "im your nemesis im your nemesis im your nemesis". ...which does make me actually dislike him, I guess. Touché, game.
Anyway, I'm gonna try to help this fellow, for obvious reasons.
My nemesis story sucks. I feel like he's artificially butting his way in and going "im your nemesis im your nemesis im your nemesis". ...which does make me actually dislike him, I guess. Touché, game.
Anyway, I'm gonna try to help this fellow, for obvious reasons.
Don't know how you do that yet though. Do you just kill the captain that's above them in rank?
shinobi602
Member
It's just a different type of combat, much more reminiscent of Batman mixed with a bit of Assassin's Creed.
Personally I much prefer crisper, more fluid combat like say, God of War or Darksiders, but I don't mind this type either.
TetraGenesis
Member
Hahahaha, another thread title!
The Nemesis System of Thread Titles turned out to be true!
The Nemesis System of Thread Titles turned out to be true!
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Yeah I thought it was sluggish at first but I got used to it. I think it feels pretty good.
Touch fuzZy. get BizZay
Member
Tolkien did say in his notes that the orc's language was actually more filthy and depraved than he depicted it in the books. So in a way, that's more canon than the published works!
Movememnt out of combat feels a bit off to me (too zoomed in on your character, as an example), but actual combat feels about right. It's not as "fluid" and more "jarring" than other types of games, but it's not broken - it's different.
I'll give it another shot tomorrow. Maybe I'll be able to get over the super blah input and focus on the good things about the combat.
If not, maybe a Gaffer wants to take it off my hands!
Just another example of the variety this game has. Some kill him with Drain, some with stealth, another mentioned going at it with a corgar (I think that's how it is spelled).
It's a matter of preference, style, and strategy. In fact, I would almost call this game more of a strategy game than anything else, since everything you do in attacking most every one of these guys HAS to be calculated.
Well, the game starts off slow. I just met Gollum, and so far I think it's okay, but it hasn't clicked yet.
The game kinda just drops you into the world, and there's a ton of icons on your minimap, and lots of systems aren't well explained. I'll just look for an online manual before bed and keep going tomorrow.
The game kinda just drops you into the world, and there's a ton of icons on your minimap, and lots of systems aren't well explained. I'll just look for an online manual before bed and keep going tomorrow.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I think precision. You have to know what you're hitting and it'll comply. In Batman Arkham Asylum you hit a person and you either lunge or engage them in combat. You either keep it going or you go on to someone else. This is like that but with weapons. You have a preset combo that you can either use in full, switch to something like wraith, or do what Batman does and combo them all together. It's very simple, but you need to know who you're hitting or you're dealing no damage at all. You can figure out what kills and try to make every combat scenario into the same kill combination you make.
Go up to a group and press B or Circle and stun them, now you can keep hitting them with the Wraith combo. You'll be attacked, so parry. Now you can either go back to the guy you were fighting or go to someone else and damage them. You have to know who you want to hit first.
I have some fights where I'm jumping around everywhere. I'll have to hit one guy with a stun and go all out, while I parry 2 or 3 people, or kill those "2 or 3" people with an execution
Go up to a group and press B or Circle and stun them, now you can keep hitting them with the Wraith combo. You'll be attacked, so parry. Now you can either go back to the guy you were fighting or go to someone else and damage them. You have to know who you want to hit first.
I have some fights where I'm jumping around everywhere. I'll have to hit one guy with a stun and go all out, while I parry 2 or 3 people, or kill those "2 or 3" people with an execution
I think Batman and other games that use have a acrobatic type of combat. You are fully engaged, but it's more about your actions than mashing button pressing. The whole group combo irony is that if you just run up to them it'll take a while to kill everyone with basic combos IMO. I've increased my kill rate dramatically by seeing what confirms what. I'll get killed doing it too.
I feel it too. It's particularly noticeable to me in the camera control. Probably my least favorite aspect of the game so far.
I will name my next Skyrim character Kaka Giggles.
Conkerkid11
Member
Play story missions. They teach you everything you need to know. You haven't even made a dent yet if you're only at Gollum.
Edit: If you think this game starts out slow, you should try Assassin's Creed 3.
Precision is the last word I'd use to describe the combat, but I think that's just splitting hairs. It does SOUND strategic, but right now I don't have the feeling that the character is doing what I want, so it's hard to make precise strategic decisions.
Do you find yourself hitting buttons quickly or more slowly and methodically? Maybe I'm just trying to act too fast and getting hung up on animations. Slowing down and trying to make more deliberate moves/button presses might help?
I'm not sure how why it happens but occasionally I go up against a Warchief and despite killing all his bodyguards he still appears with one.
I'm going to assume this is basically a Captain who just happens to be in the area and who he has simply called for support.
Anyway....the game can at times throw you a real curve ball. I had a flurry of deaths all in a space of a half hour period. Largely due to me becoming a little frustrated with some of the mechanics and not playing as I should have been. As a result I never really noticed the details of what was happening but when I finally headed up to a Warchief it all become apparent that I had dropped a real clanger.
Basically this one Uruk had been leveling up very nicely and had hit a Power Level of 16 I believe. At this time most of the others were around 9. Not only that he had a ranged attack which hit me for approximately 75% of my health. He also had poison. This would easily take me down to around 10% life remaining. This basically meant as soon as I was hit by ANY further damage I was going down....which in turn made him stronger...
Sounds bad? Well he was not a patrolling Warchief - basically he just hung around in one of the forts with 50 other Uruk's all in arms reach of an alarm,
Can it get any worse? Second assault on him and he calls in a Captain. That Captain also has ranged.
OMFG. Both Captains are immune to ranged, both are immune to Jump Vault Stun, both are immune to Wraith Stun from the front.
I swear I thought it was impossible to progress past this guy and literally had to rely on guerilla tactics to steadily lead him out into the open and decimate his own private little army.
I have never yelped quite as loudly as when he finally went down (having mercilessly picked away at the Captain for 10 minutes).
Amazing fun in hindsight. At the time..... a bloody nightmare.
I'm going to assume this is basically a Captain who just happens to be in the area and who he has simply called for support.
Anyway....the game can at times throw you a real curve ball. I had a flurry of deaths all in a space of a half hour period. Largely due to me becoming a little frustrated with some of the mechanics and not playing as I should have been. As a result I never really noticed the details of what was happening but when I finally headed up to a Warchief it all become apparent that I had dropped a real clanger.
Basically this one Uruk had been leveling up very nicely and had hit a Power Level of 16 I believe. At this time most of the others were around 9. Not only that he had a ranged attack which hit me for approximately 75% of my health. He also had poison. This would easily take me down to around 10% life remaining. This basically meant as soon as I was hit by ANY further damage I was going down....which in turn made him stronger...
Sounds bad? Well he was not a patrolling Warchief - basically he just hung around in one of the forts with 50 other Uruk's all in arms reach of an alarm,
Can it get any worse? Second assault on him and he calls in a Captain. That Captain also has ranged.
OMFG. Both Captains are immune to ranged, both are immune to Jump Vault Stun, both are immune to Wraith Stun from the front.
I swear I thought it was impossible to progress past this guy and literally had to rely on guerilla tactics to steadily lead him out into the open and decimate his own private little army.
I have never yelped quite as loudly as when he finally went down (having mercilessly picked away at the Captain for 10 minutes).
Amazing fun in hindsight. At the time..... a bloody nightmare.
shinobi602
Member
Have to agree there, I feel the camera should be pulled out a little farther, maybe about how far the camera is in Mass Effect or so when walking around. My field of view feels strangely restricted.
Conkerkid11
Member
I'm hitting everything methodically, because standard hits have a chance to crit for 2 or something like that if I'm only hitting attack once per attack, then every 5 hits I throw out an execute or brand, and repeat, occasionally throwing in some headshots with the bow when I've got arrows.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
More like an already known combination of buttons, but I'm messing with them in random order. I'm also moving him along the way.
Say I have 15 guys on me. I use this: Jump over the guy with the shield, stun him, Wraith combo him, okay now I'm watching for parrying and arrows. I parry and I decided to either kill him with an execution or I kill someone just standing around. I know the buttons, so I'm just timing the movements. I'm making sure I hit the Execution sequence just right (he can run a bit with his sword glowing and make sure to watch how long someone is in daze or you have to start over again) , the parry, or whatever I got to push to do a kill, or I'm simply getting out of the way. I rinse and repeat. If there aren't archers or guys with spears you wont get hit if you hit that parry every time.
You have to watch how fast you can pull off each move and how many times a button needs to be pressed in order to do so. It's just managing that and accepting that I won't always get that execution or I'll miss a Parry. I'm always parrying.
I think it's in sequence with a lot of button pressing. They toss it up and make you dodge, so just reset yourself with positioning. If a guy's down and you go to finish him off, just make sure there isn't a guy 2 feet away or he'll stop the animation. Maybe push him with the stun attack and finish him off.
Slow down just a bit and make it seem like every enemy has a special way to take them down because some do. I'll mix it up with an arrow or other stuff, but that's my "-"bread and butter"-" to say the least. I think it needs to be managed in order to be useful.
lord help you if you get near a mountain or rock when fighting a horde of orc. The camera is way too close , I would love to see an update to pull it back a bit.
Conkerkid11
Member
I actually appreciate the difficulty of some of the stealth objectives thrown into this game, like getting 5 stealth brands without being detected. Was intense.
Conkerkid11
Member
8 combos without being upgraded that is. Your combo text will light up.
BrassDragon
Member
You hit a lush lakeside valley about a third of the way in. It's quite a transition from dreary Udun.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
From what I understand there are several large maps, and that the beginning is just one of them.
Conkerkid11
Member
I feel like the way they set this up is going to throw some people off. I'd appreciate it if I could see all the maps from a single screen without having to be in that particular location.
Inceptional
Member
How can the game start off slow AND just drop you right into the world with tons of icons on the map? It's either one or the other. Personally, I like the fact that the game doesn't take 3 hours to get going and just lets you start fucking shit up immediately. The best way to learn is to just do it. The game does a fine job of explaining things as you go. The only people I would see having problems are people who are either new to these things called video games or "special."
Conkerkid11
Member
I immediately regretted having wasted all the interrogations I did near the start of the game on captains rather than warchiefs after I hit the point in the story where I was taught to do just that.
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