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Milo Yiannopoulos is Going on Real Time with Bill Maher

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B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Bufbaf said:
Dude, you're the one dragging everyone into "semantic debates". How do you not realize this.
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No. People disagree on the shape of this situation even if I never weighed in on the debate. That's why a "nazi" is on a liberal talk show getting some props.
 
O

Oxn

Member
shadowsdarknes said:
Seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to debate.
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I dont understand why people are saying it doesnt matter, when it absolutely does.

Lets for the sake of argument assume that Milo isn't a "Nazi", and he truly isnt ok. But you have labeled him as such. Now he is getting attacked by people, because you have identified him as something he isn't. You think thats right?

Its almost exactly what some of you accuses him of doing.
 
V

Vyer

Member
BocoDragon said:
Is this about him wearing an iron cross? Listening to Wagner? Lame evidence. He reminds me of every kid I ever knew in junior high who drew a swastika in the bathroom stall. It's not like he's a famously provocative troll who loves to get a rise out of people or anything.

Regardless of our pure conjecture that he is secretly a person who'd salute "Hail Hydra" to the right white supremacist... I don't think the term "Nazi" describes his public positions or what he has come to represent as a public figure. I don't think it works to combat him, at all.

I think it's a bad strategy to label him a Nazi when that's not what he's actually saying. I think it serves liberal self-satisfaction to just dismiss him as a Nazi, while it won't do shit in the public sphere, because it doesn't address his actual role.

I hate Milo, I'd love him defeated, and I think the "he's a Nazi" strategy is a losing tactic. Not unless you actually have facts that would make him persona non grata as this attack is trying to accomplish.
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BocoDragon said:
I've never seen it established that he is, and I've studied the man. Ask Ben Shapiro, who used to work with Bannon at Breitbart, had a falling out with Bannon, now hates Bannon... but he thinks the idea of him as a "white supremacist" is a characture.

Both Bannon and Milo seem quite the same to me.. western culture supremacists, defenders of "Christendom", neo-Crusaders, basically lazily dismissed as white supremacists with no evidence since Trump won.

I'm amenable to evidence otherwise. The Milo stuff posted above just seems like his schtick, hard to take seriously... but Bannon is straight faced. He will be easier to pin white supremacy on.
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Your technicalities and labels are a great gift for them, because it's exactly the kind of cover they need to push their method through.

Meanwhile you have readily accepted some labels in your defense of them, while applying somewhat adjacent ones that make them easier to digest for the general public. I'm not saying you are doing this intentionally; just that you need to understand that their goal, like trump, is a wide appeal to the masses to spread their message and further dig out those who might have some inclinations that would accept some of their hate speech. All they need is the hook. The more they goof off on TV, or use their 'schtick' as you put it (thankfully for them, as it certainly makes them much less threatening and easily presentable), the more opportunity it creates.

What Trump understands - what they understand - is how easy it is to propagate your simplified message while those who would oppose you are too busy wringing their hands and worrying about playing by old arbitrary rules.

To put it simply; they practice and empower different elements of hate speech, to the harm of any and all minority and oppressed groups. That is the message they carry, that is the goal involved, semantics and labels and technicalities and playful banter and 'schtick' be damned.

Similarly, thinking no that their goals have anything to do with 'facts', or that in these mainstream entertainment media appearances that said 'facts' can be used to 'challenge' them, means you've already lost.
 
T

TheLostBigBoss

Banned
BocoDragon said:
No. People disagree on the shape of this situation even if I never weighed in on the debate. That's why a "nazi" is on a liberal talk show getting some props.
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Maher is one sentence away from being a live example of horseshoe theory.

He's liberal in some policies, but overall he's an extreme who holds extremely bigoted views, and clearly is out of touch with a lot of liberal issues, which he proudly boasts about during his show when he bitches about the left being soft or something (which I agree, but for completely different reasons)
 
G

GlenChivas

Member
I feel like calling him a Nazi is giving him too much credit. I mean the Nazis actually did stuff. Horrible and evil stuff, but they went out and did stuff none the less.

The fuck has this kid done other than spout some vile shit from behind a keyboard? He's just a sex tape away from being a racist Kim Kardashian as far as I can tell.
 
A

APF

Member
BocoDragon said:
"My source" (Ben Shapiro for those tuning in) also emphatically thinks the characterization of this Bannon/Milo phenomenon as "white supremacy" is leftism gone mad
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No, he said things like:

the Huffington Post's blaring headline ”WHITE NATIONALIST IN THE WHITE HOUSE" is overstated, at the very least.

Which--and I'm sure you will appreciate this--is a subtle difference. When something is "over" stated, there is still truth to the characterization, just not in terms of magnitude.

He then goes on to describe Milo in the following way:

he called his Breitbart ”the platform of the alt-right." Milo Yiannopoulos, the star writer at the site, is an alt-right popularizer, even as he continuously declares with a wink that he's not a member.

So again, Bannon made Breitbart THE "platform" for the alt right, and it's biggest star is Milo, who "winks" that he's not actually a member, suggesting that it's just misdirection. Thus, Milo is not only the main alt-right propagandist, he's also a member! Shapiro then goes on to describe the alt-right as:

The alt-right, in a nutshell, believes that Western culture is inseparable from European ethnicity.

Here's the bullet-points that he links to:
  • Racism is not a fringe element of the Alt-Right; it's the movement's central premise.
  • It's also explicitly anti-Semitic.
  • The Alt-Right is tech savvy, with roots in Silicon Valley.
  • The Alt-Right loves The Matrix
  • The Alt-Right loves Christendom but rejects Christianity.
  • Kek, cucks, and meme-magic.
  • The Alt-Right wants to burn American politics to the ground. (picture of Bannon here in article)
  • Even the Alt-Right's most prominent media cheerleader doesn't actually count himself a member. (guess who)

Don't confuse people trying to manipulate you with their insincerity as actually revealing something important when their actions, methods, and goals are all consistent with their words.
 
P

Pbae

Member
Oxn said:
I dont understand why people are saying it doesnt matter, when it absolutely does.

Lets for the sake of argument assume that Milo isn't a "Nazi", and he truly isnt ok. But you have labeled him as such. Now he is getting attacked by people, because you have identified him as something he isn't. You think thats right?

Its almost exactly what some of you accuses him of doing.
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I'd argue that because he acts and talks like a neo nazi and is hostile towards large swathes of people that's the main reason people attack him.

It's not like this guy had Mein Kampf in his Amazon wishlist and the entire internet came to bring the judgement hammer. He has gone out of the way to be an ambassador of hate speech so he should understand the inherent negatives that such public voices warrant.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
GlenChivas said:
Came in hoping to see some Larry Wilmore gifs. Got people debating over whether or not he classifies as a Nazi.

Why does it matter if the dude is or isn't a Nazi?

He's a smug asshole. That's enough for me.
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Good point actually.

Loved Larry on this.
 
A

A Fish Aficionado

I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
GlenChivas said:
I feel like calling him a Nazi is giving him too much credit. I mean the Nazis actually did stuff. Horrible and evil stuff, but they went out and did stuff none the less.

The fuck has this kid done other than spout some vile shit from behind a keyboard? He's just a sex tape away from being a racist Kim Kardashian as far as I can tell.
Click to expand...
They elected a president.
 
P

PillarEN

Member
So short and only on the surface. Would have been much better to have him with the other guests. No time for a real back and forth when they jumped so quickly from one thing to another.
Best case scenario for a future interview with some length and getting into the nitty gritty would be something like GG Allin on Geraldo. Now there is great back and forth.

TheOddOne said:
No need for gifs, the whole thing is up on youtube. The only good thing about this whole mess.
Click to expand...

Oh he was on the panel. Goody. Time to watch
 
O

Oersted

Member
GlenChivas said:
I feel like calling him a Nazi is giving him too much credit. I mean the Nazis actually did stuff. Horrible and evil stuff, but they went out and did stuff none the less.

The fuck has this kid done other than spout some vile shit from behind a keyboard? He's just a sex tape away from being a racist Kim Kardashian as far as I can tell.
Click to expand...

http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/12/milo-yiannopoulos-harassed-a-trans-student-at-uw-milwaukee.html

And lol at people at the Internet stating "just the Internet"
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
APF said:
No, he said things like:

the Huffington Post’s blaring headline “WHITE NATIONALIST IN THE WHITE HOUSE” is overstated, at the very least.

Which--and I'm sure you will appreciate this--is a subtle difference. When something is "over" stated, there is still truth to the characterization, just overstated in terms of magnitude.

He then goes on to describe Milo in the following way:

he called his Breitbart “the platform of the alt-right.” Milo Yiannopoulos, the star writer at the site, is an alt-right popularizer, even as he continuously declares with a wink that he’s not a member.

So again, Bannon made Breitbart THE "platform" for the alt right, and it's biggest star is Milo, who "winks" that he's not actually a member, suggesting that it's just misdirection. Thus, Milo is not only the main alt-right propagandist, he's also a member! Shapiro then goes on to describe the alt-right as:

The alt-right, in a nutshell, believes that Western culture is inseparable from European ethnicity.

Here's the bullet-points that he links to:
  • Racism is not a fringe element of the Alt-Right; it’s the movement’s central premise.
  • It’s also explicitly anti-Semitic.
  • The Alt-Right is tech savvy, with roots in Silicon Valley.
  • The Alt-Right loves The Matrix
  • The Alt-Right loves Christendom but rejects Christianity.
  • Kek, cucks, and meme-magic.
  • The Alt-Right wants to burn American politics to the ground. (picture of Bannon here in article)
  • Even the Alt-Right’s most prominent media cheerleader doesn’t actually count himself a member. (guess who)

Don't confuse people trying to manipulate you with their insincerity as actually revealing something important when their actions, methods, and goals are all consistent with their words.
Click to expand...
I'm off to bed now and I can't go point by point, but you're talking my language. I fell like we'd find common ground in the framework of another discussion.
 
T

TheLostBigBoss

Banned
Just about Milo, I can't fucking stand the way he talks. He makes the little pouty face, says something stupid and then pretends he's being attacked and gives the big sad eyes while he waits for a response.
 
Biff

Biff

Member
BocoDragon said:
No. People disagree on the shape of this situation even if I never weighed in on the debate. That's why a "nazi" is on a liberal talk show getting some props.
Click to expand...

Boco, your posts have been spot on correct. Not going to quote them all because there's a lot, but I think you absolutely have the most logical, rational view of this situation. This post in particular is the simplest concept to get across. I don't see how you can deny the fact that America is, and will always be, DEEPLY OPPOSED TO NAZISM.

"But Trump won the election! Can't you see! America has become a Nazi state!"

Calling Trump or Milo or Bannon a Nazi is hilariously sad. I really hope these people don't share these views in person to their co-workers or those outside their echo chamber. It instantly labels the opinion-holder as immature and deserving of little respect or attention.
 
Z

Zaru

Member
Infinite said:
You haven't really gave a good explaining why that distinction is important and why it actually matters.
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Various labels have lost their meaning and impact after being liberally and broadly used, or simply put, watered down.

People who start throwing around fascist/nazi/white supremacist to every right wing asshole just end up making these accusations meaningless and easier to deflect.
Sure it's okay to call a spade a spade, someone like Spencer fits these labels to a t, but I've seen quite a lot of people use these labels as often as alt-righters throw around SJW, and the effect of such labels is only going to decrease this way.

I'm not gonna lose sleep over someone like Milo getting called a nazi, but I doubt it's going to have the intended effect in the long term.
 
A

APF

Member
BocoDragon said:
I'm off to bed now and I can't go point by point, but you're talking my language. I fell like we'd find common ground in the framework of another discussion.
Click to expand...

Probably. I'd also add that this insincerity and attempt at ironic detachment is part-and-parcel of the alt-right, and not a meaningful indicator that they should be regarded separately.
 
S

Snowybreak

Member
BocoDragon said:
No. People disagree on the shape of this situation even if I never weighed in on the debate. That's why a "nazi" is on a liberal talk show getting some props.
Click to expand...

Know what? Fine. The fucker isn't a Nazi. But he is a white supremacist gay homophobe and Jewish anti-Semite wrapped in his own hateful contradictions, wearing third Reich regalia and with extremely facist ideals, who will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.

Sorry buttercup, but you are so focused on defending this worthless waste of skin, trying to make sure people don't call him a Nazi, because... Why? Does he give Nazis a bad name or something? Every single last white supremacist is a waste of humanity, a stain on the tapestry of time.

Why are you wasting your time trying to defend this guy?
 
I

Infinite

Member
ChefRamsay said:
Boco, your posts have been spot on correct. Not going to quote them all because there's a lot, but I think you absolutely have the most logical, rational view of this situation. This post in particular is the simplest concept to get across. I don't see how you can deny the fact that America is, and will always be, DEEPLY OPPOSED TO NAZISM.

"But Trump won the election! Can't you see! America has become a Nazi state!"

Calling Trump or Milo or Bannon a Nazi is hilariously sad. I really hope these people don't share these views in person to their co-workers or those outside their echo chamber. It instantly labels the opinion-holder as immature and deserving of little respect or attention.
Click to expand...
Banon is definitely a white supremacist. Milo is an enabler of it, his words and actions speaks directly to them even if you think calling him one is "sad".
 
G

GlenChivas

Member
Oersted said:
http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/12/milo-yiannopoulos-harassed-a-trans-student-at-uw-milwaukee.html

And lol at people at the Internet stating "just the Internet"
Click to expand...

Horrible? Absolutely. But I still wouldn't go with Nazi.

I don't know. Not to be THAT guy, but I just feel like calling people Nazi's or Hitler trivializes the Holocaust. Plus after the Soup Nazi episode of Seinfeld everyone went crazy calling someone a ______ Nazi. "Nazi" lost a lot of punch after that.

How about everyone teams up to create a new word that sums this fucker up. Kind of like how Dan Savage brought "Santorum" into the lexicon when Rick Santorum wouldn't shut the fuck up.
 
J

Jackpot

Banned
BocoDragon said:
Dude, you're the one dragging everyone into "semantic debates". How do you not realize this.
Click to expand...

No.
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Arrows-Down-icon.png

BocoDragon said:
Would you also say that Breitbart isn't a white supremacy website?
Click to expand...

I would say it is technically not.
Click to expand...

"technically not white supremacist"

If people worried about the victims of the neo-Nazi (sorry, "alt-right") movement nearly as much as they worried over the potential mis-labelling of their attackers the world would be a sight better off.
 
C

cartographer

Member
I guess a lot of people were unfamiliar with the extent of Maher's shit nature before. Most things were pointing to this being somewhere in the camp of kowtowing / handwaving / finding common ground, and that's what happened.
 
B

Buckle

Member
Yeah, that went about as well as I expected.

Unfortunately you could see Maher and Milo getting along or finding common ground. Shame it actually turned out that way but eh, saw it coming.
 
D

Deleted member 10571

Unconfirmed Member
Buckle said:
Yeah, that went about as well as I expected.

Unfortunately you could see Maher and Milo getting along or finding common ground. Shame it actually turned out that way but eh, saw it coming..
Click to expand...

I'm sure Scahill is legit happy now that he refused to come. Good call on him.
 
S

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
I'm sorry, but I think it is absolutely vital to accurately identify and label Nazis. It's not handwringing. It's not a pointless semantic debate. It being used as a catch-all term for anyone with shitty ideas/ideals will end up diluting the word and its power. Nazis are a special breed of fuckwit and extra time should be taken to identify them.

You can be a vicious, bigoted piece of shit, and not be a Nazi.
 
R

royalan

Member
Screaming Meat said:
I'm sorry, but I think it is absolutely vital to accurately identify and label Nazis. It's not handwringing. It's not a pointless semantic debate. It being used as a catch-all term for anyone with shitty ideas/ideals will end up diluting the word and its power. Nazis are a special breed of fuckwit and extra time should be taken to identify them.

You can be a vicious, bigoted piece of shit, and not be a Nazi.
Click to expand...

What's the important distinction?
 
P

PillarEN

Member
The roundtable segment is what I was hoping for. The interview part only points out that Milo says hateful things constantly and that he and Bill agree on free speech and debate. Nothing special there. The roundtable portion is where it's at, especially since the challengers come with points (and a few fuck yous).
 
O

Oersted

Member
GlenChivas said:
Horrible? Absolutely. But I still wouldn't go with Nazi.

I don't know. Not to be THAT guy, but I just feel like calling people Nazi's or Hitler trivializes the Holocaust. Plus after the Soup Nazi episode of Seinfeld everyone went crazy calling someone a ______ Nazi. "Nazi" lost a lot of punch after that.

How about everyone teams up to create a new word that sums this fucker up. Kind of like how Dan Savage brought "Santorum" into the lexicon when Rick Santorum wouldn't shut the fuck up.
Click to expand...

I'm atleast glad that you agree that your downplaying of Milos actions is wrong and now the super pointless part of the discussion has begun, where we debate if a white supremacist who dedicates his life to bullying and spreading anti-Semitic,sexist and racist views, who happens to wear German war memorabilia, names himself after a composer who was essentially used to provide the audio for the Nazi movement is really Nazi.
 
K

Kinsei

Banned
PillarEN said:
The roundtable segment is what I was hoping for. The interview part only points out that Milo says hateful things constantly and that he and Bill agree on free speech and debate. Nothing special there. The roundtable portion is where it's at, especially since the challengers come with points (and a few fuck yous).
Click to expand...

We saw the roundtable. It made Maher look like a total asshole.
 
S

Snowybreak

Member
Screaming Meat said:
I'm sorry, but I think it is absolutely vital to accurately identify and label Nazis. It's not handwringing. It's not a pointless semantic debate. It being used as a catch-all term for anyone with shitty ideas/ideals will end up diluting the word and its power. Nazis are a special breed of fuckwit and extra time should be taken to identify them.

You can be a vicious, bigoted piece of shit, and not be a Nazi.
Click to expand...

Here, let me put it to you like this.

This motherfucker is an horrific, hateful, bigoted anti-Semite. No, he technically isn't a Nazi, but if people have to dance around technicalities to avoid... Something... (Offending people? What are we avoiding by not labeling him a Nazi? I dunno...) Then the vitriol this man deserves may not reach him.

You call a guy a Nazi long enough, his name becomes associated with evil and fascism. Demonize, degrade, and destroy. That's what they've been doing to us for too long.

It's time to put aside your hang-ups and get down and dirty. Drag this guy through the mud. There is no reason not to stoop to his level to defame him and deny him a platform. If he acts high and mighty about it, we insult him and drag him back down.
 
S

ShironRedshift

Member
PillarEN said:
The roundtable segment is what I was hoping for. The interview part only points out that Milo says hateful things constantly and that he and Bill agree on free speech and debate. Nothing special there. The roundtable portion is where it's at, especially since the challengers come with points (and a few fuck yous).
Click to expand...
Don't bury the lede there though--it also pointed out that Maher and Milo apparently agree that transgender individuals ain't worth shit and found some common ground on some total bullshit.
 
I

IggyChooChoo

Member
Jackpot said:
If people worried about the victims of the neo-Nazi (sorry, "alt-right") movement nearly as much as they worried over the potential mis-labelling of their attackers the world would be a sight better off.
Click to expand...
Damn straight. Milo and Bannon are white supremacists because the Breitbart news site takes it as an implicit premise that black people are inherently inferior. This shit isn't complicated.
 
K

Kinsei

Banned
PillarEN said:
Fair enough but his guests came to play.
Click to expand...

For the most part. I'm disappointed that neither of them jumped on the free speech thing though. By letting that rest it implies that the students at Berkeley were trying to stop him from exercising his right to free speech when that wasn't the case.
 
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