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[Downhome]

What good is a protest if it results/ends in violent destructive actions? Throwing bricks and damaging buildings? =(

The actions of those monsters, like it or not, completely invalidates the point and opinions of all of the other peaceful protesters, in the eyes of many. I don't blame them either when they see idiots acting like this.

Those people don't care about any cause. They only want to create havoc and destruction, it's what they want period no matter the politics. No one should defend them, and anyone who does defend them is just as bad and as irrational as they are. It's disgusting and hurts both sides, especially those that may actually have good intentions for their protests.

 

[Loudninja]

The actions of those monsters, like it or not, completely invalidates the point and opinions of all of the other peaceful protesters, in the eyes of many. I don't blame them either when they see idiots acting like this.

Those people don't care about any cause. They only want to create havoc and destruction, it's what they want period no matter the politics. No one should defend them, and anyone who does defend them is just as bad and as irrational as they are. It's disgusting and hurts both sides, especially those that may actually have good intentions for their protests.

No it does not at all.

People choose what they focus on it never fails.

 

[Droplet]

Depends a bit on the type of protest. If it is organised, you can coordinate with police to try and prevent these things as good as possible.

The police were supposedly pretty well prepared for this particular event. At least initial estimates required that the club organizing the event raise $10k for police efforts, although I believe the number was later brought down. I do doubt that protestors would want to organize anything with the police though, as previous protests had police using tear gas and force while they were still peaceful. The police got a pretty bad rep from that and tried to stay out of things afterwards, but I imagine the relationship between the two is still strained.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Ignorant piece of shit needs to crawl back into his hole and stay there.

 

[Lautaro]

Yeah, I was gonna mention after seeing some videos that the direct and more violent attacks on trump supporters apparently are only from masked men... protest infiltration is a thing everywhere in the world, better be ready for that in the next protest.

And that Trump tweet is kind of comical, he doesn't know who he needs to attack yet and is asking about cutting funds pff

 

[AP90]

I have to say I agree with UCLU's stance on free speech with regards to hate speech. Reacting with violence will only cause more violence and have the other side act like they have some moral high ground, further justifying their stance.

Best way would be to react with speech.

This. As violence gives the opposing side more ammunition.

That doesn't work anymore. You can't fight Nazis with words. Do you think after the Manson family killings, authorities should have just rolled up to Spahn ranch and given them a bunch of heartfelt reasons why they should stop being psycho killers?

Normalization of the alt-right's rhetoric under the pretense that everyone deserves their say is what has helped cause our country's slide into fascism.

Still don't think resulting in violence will solve anything.

 

[Mailbox]

No it does not at all.

the key phrase was right after the bolding: "in the eyes of many" which is an issue.

 

[Lime]

Milo supporter shot someone but when Antifa sets inanimate objects on fire, he gets his "Left Hates Free Speech" headline.

 

[Loudninja]

the key phrase was right after the bolding: "in the eyes of many" which is an issue.

You think those people cared to begin with?

 

[Madame M]

The actions of those monsters, like it or not, completely invalidates the point and opinions of all of the other peaceful protesters, in the eyes of many. I don't blame them either when they see idiots acting like this.

You don't blame people for jumping to conclusions without reason? Why is that?

 

[Formless]

Yeah if you watch the videos, it's pretty bad. Those people that got hit are going to be hard right wing for life unless the peaceful protestors swoop in and help out.

This is fuel for the (alt) right and it's not gonna help. Regardless of how many peaceful protestors there are this is what conservatives will think about liberal colleges for the near future.

 

[Mailbox]

You think those people cared to begin with?

i do.

and?

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Yeah if you watch the videos, it's pretty bad. Those people that got hit are going to be hard right wing for life unless the peaceful protestors swoop in and help out.

This is fuel for the (alt) right and it's not gonna help. Regardless of how many peaceful protestors there are this is what conservatives will think about liberal colleges for the near future.

This is what they think about liberals, in general, right now.

People aren't going to be using this as some revelation about the true nature of the left. They've always thought this.

Stop pretending this incident is some sort of catalyst. It isn't. The same lines are trotted around by the right during every protest, even ones that have no incidents of violence whatsoever. They don't give a fuck about the violence. They don't like the protests. Be it protesting Milo, the Pussygrabber in Chief, the Police or Racial Injustice. They don't want the status quo challenged, which is why it's fucking ridiculous that people keep coming here thinking they're enlightened and yelling about dialogue. You can't have a dialogue with yourself. A conversation requires two willing groups to participate in it.

 

[StrategyFan]

Yeah if you watch the videos, it's pretty bad. Those people that got hit are going to be hard right wing for life unless the peaceful protestors swoop in and help out.

that would be nice, but you're asking a lot from college students

they aren't trained protesters. they're actually supposed to disperse and let the cops take care of the violence, but it must be confusing to know when to listen to cops and when to stand up to them

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

The actions of those monsters, like it or not, completely invalidates the point and opinions of all of the other peaceful protesters, in the eyes of many. I don't blame them either when they see idiots acting like this.

Those people don't care about any cause. They only want to create havoc and destruction, it's what they want period no matter the politics. No one should defend them, and anyone who does defend them is just as bad and as irrational as they are. It's disgusting and hurts both sides, especially those that may actually have good intentions for their protests.

You voted for Trump and you're trying to shit on people for harming "both sides"

Lmao

 

[Downhome]

No it does not at all.

Bold the entire sentence or your "quote" even invalidates what you are trying to make it look like I was saying. (I see you edited it now, I caught t before you took that back.) I said "in the eyes of many". It does, and I don't blame folks for it either. This thread alone is proof, so I can only imagine what the home viewers think now.

The story isn't now "protesters cause them to cancel Milo's hate-filled speech". Instead it's all about these idiots causing violence for the sake of fulfilling their sick desire to do so at any time given the chance. The story is now these scumbags using violence to shut down free speech. That's all this story is now, it's all about them. It's exactly what they wanted too, to be the story, to show the world they could do it.

It doesn't help anyone, and anyone thinking their violence leading to the cancelation helps at all to shit down speech like that the. You don't know what you are talking about. It emboldens it, it helps even those against what he says to at least partially sympathize with him. Not some of you guys, but the general public. No one should be defending the rioters and those that became violent. Unless you agree with that mindset or are flat out one of them.

 

[opoth]

This is what they think about liberals, in general, right now.

People aren't going to be using this as some revelation about the true nature of the left. They've always thought this.

Stop pretending this incident is some sort of catalyst. It isn't. The same lines are trotted around by the right during every protest, even ones that have no incidents of violence whatsoever. They don't give a fuck about the violence. They don't like the protests. Be it protesting Milo, the Pussygrabber in Chief, the Police or Racial Injustice. They don't want the status quo challenged, which is why it's fucking ridiculous that people keep coming here thinking they're enlightened and yelling about dialogue. You can't have a dialogue with yourself. A conversation requires two willing groups to participate in it.

Well said. If you're still on a moral high horse, you are part of the problem at this point.

 

[Formless]

This is what they think about liberals, in general, right now.

People aren't going to be using this as some revelation about the true nature of the left. They've always thought this.

Stop pretending this incident is some sort of catalyst. It isn't. The same lines are trotted around by the right during every protest, even ones that have no incidents of violence whatsoever. They don't give a fuck about the violence. They don't like the protests. Be it protesting Milo, the Pussygrabber in Chief, the Police or Racial Injustice. They don't want the status quo challenged, which is why it's fucking ridiculous that people keep coming here thinking they're enlightened and yelling about dialogue. You can't have a dialogue with yourself. A conversation requires two willing groups to participate in it.

I don't think the protests earlier this week were counter productive but this one ended up being so. When you have video of (frankly) white girls being beat down by mysterious masked people it's a horrible look.

 

[Loudninja]

This is what they think about liberals, in general, right now.

People aren't going to be using this as some revelation about the true nature of the left. They've always thought this.

Stop pretending this incident is some sort of catalyst. It isn't. The same lines are trotted around by the right during every protest, even ones that have no incidents of violence whatsoever. They don't give a fuck about the violence. They don't like the protests. Be it protesting Milo, the Pussygrabber in Chief, the Police or Racial Injustice. They don't want the status quo challenged, which is why it's fucking ridiculous that people keep coming here thinking they're enlightened and yelling about dialogue. You can't have a dialogue with yourself. A conversation requires two willing groups to participate in it.

Agreed it always seem the protesters are in the wrong instead of who is getting protested when it comes to these issues.

 

[cubicle47b]

So anarchists get to riot, Milo gets more mainstream media attention, protesters look like villains, and Milo's supporters become victims. Bonus: people condoning murder being agreed with online.

 

[Downhome]

So anarchists get to riot, Milo gets more mainstream media attention, protesters look like villains, and Milo's supporters become victims. Bonus: people condoning murder being agreed with online.

That right there pretty much sums it up.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I have to say I agree with UCLU's stance on free speech with regards to hate speech. Reacting with violence will only cause more violence and have the other side act like they have some moral high ground, further justifying their stance.

Best way would be to react with speech.

Nazis want to be debated. It legitimises their ideology. An ideology whose end game is extermination, I might add. By giving them a platform, we're playing into their hands and normalising their bullshit. We've seen how that ends, haven't we?

Free Speech is about the government not punishing people for saying stuff or deciding what people can or can't say. The rest of us don't have to put up with extremist horse shit.

 

[Mailbox]

So anarchists get to riot, Milo gets more mainstream media attention, protesters look like villains, and Milo's supporters become victims. Bonus: people condoning murder being agreed with online.

basically. lets not forget trumpet tweeting about defunding the university despite them doing nothing wrong.

 

[PillarEN]

Why do these places keep inviting this guy?

Yeah I'm curious about this too. It made sense a year ago and before when he was sort of unknown to come and do his shtick. But now I'm pretty sure every campus knows what he's about (young people at college know who he is or would quickly jump on the internet and figure it out). I'm all for free speech myself (and in turn the freedom to protest the man) but I'm not sure what it is that would benefit anyone from attending his speeches, conferences.

 

[SlickWilly223]

Don't even know who Milo is nor do I care.

But sheesh, if you don't want to hear the guy just don't attend his event. Or have a civil dialogue with the college Republican group. Ultimately he was invited by students and paid with University grants so this just seems kinda stupid. Almost like he was baited (this isn't the first time it happened right?)

Also his target audience of 500 liberal arts majors just turned into every person in America who reads the news. Giving this guy more of a platform.

And it's funny that people are talking about suppressing hatred and fascism with the power of protests - and then peaceful opposers to the movement get pepper sprayed out of hatred. Not a good look and does not make onlookers sympathize with your movement

 

[Lime]

Yeah I'm curious about this too. It made sense a year ago and before when he was sort of unknown to come and do his shtick. But now I'm pretty sure every campus knows what he's about (young people at college know who he is or would quickly jump on the internet and figure it out). I'm all for free speech myself (and in turn the freedom to protest the man) but I'm not sure what it is that would benefit anyone from attending his speeches, conferences.

Because College Republicans are fascists and like the bile that Milo is spewing

 

[Madame M]

This is fuel for the (alt) right and it's not gonna help. Regardless of how many peaceful protestors there are this is what conservatives will think about liberal colleges for the near future.

Don't worry, conservatives believed what they do about "liberal colleges" before any protests or violence of this nature.

 

[Formless]

Yeah I'm curious about this too. It made sense a year ago and before when he was sort of unknown to come and do his shtick. But now I'm pretty sure every campus knows what he's about (young people at college know who he is or would quickly jump on the internet and figure it out). I'm all for free speech myself (and in turn the freedom to protest the man) but I'm not sure what it is that would benefit anyone from attending his speeches, conferences.

I think college clubs/student organizations are inviting him much of the time. They know this is gonna happen and the sooner young college students realize they might not be helping by taking the bait the better.

Don't worry, conservatives believed what they do about "liberal colleges" before any protests or violence of this nature.

A lot of them yes, but this doesn't help. You think video of people getting clubbed and pepper sprayed isn't going to make them think these ideas are dangerous?

 

[sazzy]

So anarchists get to riot, Milo gets more mainstream media attention, protesters look like villains, and Milo's supporters become victims.... ...

Trump tweeting about this pretty much guarantees this getting TV and news coverage. POLITICO has an article up already.

If the protestors' goal was to shut down Milo or limit his hate speech, they have failed.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Don't even know who Milo is nor do I care.

But sheesh, if you don't want to hear the guy just don't attend his event. Or have a civil dialogue with the college Republican group. Ultimately he was invited by students and paid with University grants so this just seems kinda stupid. Almost like he was baited (this isn't the first time it happened right?)

Also his target audience of 500 liberal arts majors just turned into every person in America who reads the news. Giving this guy more of a platform.

And it's funny that people are talking about suppressing hatred and fascism with the power of protests - and then peaceful opposers to the movement get pepper sprayed out of hatred. Not a good look and does not make onlookers sympathize with your movement

Don't know, don't care but still willing to take time to chastise the protestors who do know and do care lol

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

That doesn't work anymore. You can't fight Nazis with words. Do you think after the Manson family killings, authorities should have just rolled up to Spahn ranch and given them a bunch of heartfelt reasons why they should stop being psycho killers?

Normalization of the alt-right's rhetoric under the pretense that everyone deserves their say is what has helped cause our country's slide into fascism.

The post was on fighting hateful SPEECH with SPEECH. Not using speech as a way to retaliate against violence. Thats something the police has to deal with.

Nazis want to be debated. It legitimises their ideology. An ideology whose end game is extermination, I might add. By giving them a platform, we're playing into their hands and normalising their bullshit. We've seen how that ends, haven't we?

Free Speech is about the government not punishing people for saying stuff or deciding what people can or can't say. The rest of us don't have to put up with extremist horse shit.

How does it legitimise it? If anything, reacting with violence against speech, legitimises their view far more and we can evidently see that from the way some of them talk after these events.

The rest of you still have to abide by the law. Your right, free speech dictates the governments rules of arrest, but reacting with such violence will most likely lead to breaking some laws and getting arrested. So while you don't have to put up with their bullshit, you'll have to put up with laws against violence.

Hence why speech is the best means. There is objectively no wrong with such a means and its influence can be even stronger than acts of violence.

 

[SlickWilly223]

But like it or not, this protest to suppress speech screams fascism more than anything "college Republicans" stand for (though I don't know anything about this particular college Republican group). Maybe you don't agree with their point of view but much of today's right wing agenda is nothing new in American society - in fact the tone is less conservative these days than it was even just 10 years ago.

Icing on the cake is that this guy was invited. This could have been avoided if students found a compromise with formal discourse.

But no, they needed to stop free speech entirely. Seems kinda fascist to me. (Edit: authoritarian)

 

[sazzy]

 

[Dehnus]

To the surprise of no one, Milo Yiannopoulos's 'alt-right'

Spoiler

nazi

speech at UC Berkeley has been cancelled. This is the third one IIRC, UC Davis, Seattle, and now here that's been cut short or cancelled by protests. There's a fire that was started, and the police are trying to get the crowd to disperse.


https://twitter.com/KenWayneKTVU/status/826974237759909888

Livestream here
http://www.ktvu.com/ktvu-livestream-2

Sigh, this is exactly what he wanted. He'll milk this into oblivion and his fanbase will run with it, using the pictures to generate fake news for months.

It was best to let him speak and just organise something that would boycot the entire event. So at most the "Campus republicans" would show up. Empty room otherwise. Then not even give him any attention and even ask local Media not to interview him.

Don't let the bugger goad you into a reaction. He's simply not worth your effort.

 

[Lime]

What's up will all these nazi defenders in this thread?

 

[Palette Swap]

What's up will all these nazi defenders in this thread?

Man, I've never heard of this guy but he's not terrible.

 

[Madame M]

A lot of them yes, but this doesn't help. You think video of people getting clubbed and pepper sprayed isn't going to make them think these ideas are dangerous?

What are "these ideas"?

 

[excelsiorlef]

I can tell how many people weren't aware or old enough to be aware during the Bush years, if you think this protest is going to be the one that really turns people against protestors lol.

 

[excelsiorlef]

But like it or not, this protest to suppress speech screams fascism more than anything "college Republicans" stand for (though I don't know anything about this particular college Republican group). Maybe you don't agree with their point of view but much of today's right wing agenda is nothing new in American society - in fact the tone is less conservative these days than it was even just 10 years ago.

Icing on the cake is that this guy was invited. This could have been avoided if students found a compromise with formal discourse.

But no, they needed to stop free speech entirely. Seems kinda fascist to me. (Edit: authoritarian)

So basically no you're the puppet is your argument....

 

[StrategyFan]

the university seems to have gone to extraordinary lengths to try to make it safe for him to speak

looks like they anticipated protests alongside the Milo event, but they did not adequately prepare for "a group of about 150 masked agitators"

 

[RionaaM]

Once again violence works as a successful tool for suppressing Nazis.

Well done to the protesters for getting this shit shut down, hopefully this sort of action will follow Milo wherever he slinks off to next.

Yup. Want to publicly spread hate towards your fellow man and say that they should suffer? OK, good luck doing that when their fist is coming towards your face then.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/827112633224544256
Here's the President's view on the matter!

It's sad to think that the US president ain't much better than your average 4chan user. What a world we live in.

 

[TBiddy]

What's up will all these nazi defenders in this thread?

Who are you referring to?

 

[Screaming Meat]

How does it legitimise it?

By putting it on an equal footing; by entertaining it as a genuine and meaningful political viewpoint. It's not.

To be clear, I'm not advocating the violence at Berkeley (though I'm for Nazis getting the occasional punch in the face and getting shouted down). I don't think extremists can (or indeed deserve to) be logically debated; y'know, since their ideology isn't based on logic and founded on the extermination of other people. How can you meaningfully debate that?

 

[What did he mean by this?]

Who are you referring to?

Theres one at the top of the page
Lets compromise with Nazis, or WE ARE the real fascists!!!

 

[ittoryu]

But like it or not, this protest to suppress speech screams fascism more than anything "college Republicans" stand for (though I don't know anything about this particular college Republican group). Maybe you don't agree with their point of view but much of today's right wing agenda is nothing new in American society - in fact the tone is less conservative these days than it was even just 10 years ago.

Icing on the cake is that this guy was invited. This could have been avoided if students found a compromise with formal discourse.

But no, they needed to stop free speech entirely. Seems kinda fascist to me. (Edit: authoritarian)

Instead, what Milo says is usually nice and welcoming.

 

[Chumley]

But like it or not, this protest to suppress speech screams fascism more than anything "college Republicans" stand for (though I don't know anything about this particular college Republican group). Maybe you don't agree with their point of view but much of today's right wing agenda is nothing new in American society - in fact the tone is less conservative these days than it was even just 10 years ago.

Icing on the cake is that this guy was invited. This could have been avoided if students found a compromise with formal discourse.

But no, they needed to stop free speech entirely. Seems kinda fascist to me. (Edit: authoritarian)

Every page there's a post like this.

You rile people up, make them angry, make them feel belittled, they lash out. This is Milo's bread and butter and how he's made his entire career. He doesn't have ideas, he has provocations, and now it's reached it's logical conclusion. You don't get to say "please be reasonable" to a tiger after poking it with a stick a bunch of times.

The people of Berkeley spoke, and they shut him down. The victimization complex from Milo and his people is utterly absurd. This is what their rhetoric was always leading towards and what they always wanted. Have you seen what happens when liberals tried to have calm discussions with them? It was tried for years. This entire thing, the entire Trump supporter movement, has always been leading to this. It's a time of hate now and little else, and they brought it all on themselves.

 

[Formless]

What are "these ideas"?

I was unclear -- I mean the false ideas that liberal colleges encourage violence and shut down free speech and that liberals = violent protestors.

 

[Infinite]

But like it or not, this protest to suppress speech screams fascism more than anything "college Republicans" stand for (though I don't know anything about this particular college Republican group). Maybe you don't agree with their point of view but much of today's right wing agenda is nothing new in American society - in fact the tone is less conservative these days than it was even just 10 years ago.

Icing on the cake is that this guy was invited. This could have been avoided if students found a compromise with formal discourse.

But no, they needed to stop free speech entirely. Seems kinda fascist to me. (Edit: authoritarian)

Man, some of you guys are complete marks. Nazis don't derserve to be engaged in any kind of "formal discourse". They fucking don't derserve to be compromised with. Getting tired of seeing nazis victimized here.

 

[Screaming Meat]

But no, they needed to stop free speech entirely. Seems kinda fascist to me. (Edit: authoritarian)

Here's where that specifc brand of 'free speech' leads:

That's the fucking end game.

 

[Fergie]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/827112633224544256
Here's the President's view on the matter!