On what basis do you know that those who were assaulted at Berkeley tonight were innocent? All we have is footage of the aftermath, there is little to no context. Perhaps they were doing something to incite the violence against them. We don't know.
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Milo Yiannopoulos's UC Berkeley speech cancelled due to protests, campus on lockdown
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On what basis do you know that those who were assaulted at Berkeley tonight were innocent? All we have is footage of the aftermath, there is little to no context. Perhaps they were doing something to incite the violence against them. We don't know.
StrategyFan
Member
who is "they"?
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
Milo fancies himself as a troll and a provocateur, I think he knew exactly what he was doing by going to a speech in one of America's most liberal campuses. He just has enough plausible deniability to shirk any responsibility for his actions.
You better have some sources other than a quite clearly shitty site like front page mag
I don't think drawing satirical cartoons is comparable to what Milo does. Milo is deliberately divisive. The cartoons were critical of radical Islam which itself is violently divisive.
Milo and the terrorists would be the comparable ones here.
I'm questioning your hypothetical, so no.
Since you designate death as the only qualifier for victimhood, I'm interested why trauma and injury don't count.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Well, what do you think?
Protesters? Antifa? Someone was apparently beaten bloody with a shovel and it was done by people from the side that is protesting. What part of that is difficult to understand?
Your question was vague with the use of "that" so I just said yes. What was the question again? Please be more specific.
The part where you generalize by "sides." There were about 1,000 individuals (or "snowflakes") and surprise surprise, everyone has their own opinion. But hey, you nailed it down to "someone."
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/827112633224544256
Here's the President's view on the matter!
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Why do you think the anarchists don't show up to Tea Party or other conservative protests?
Yes, this specific incident does neatly divide along sides. And I still support the one that is protesting against white supremacists. What the fuck is your problem?
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/827112633224544256
Here's the President's view on the matter!
Widespread sexual assault issues in Colleges are okay, but this is step too far?
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/827112633224544256
Here's the President's view on the matter!
Hmm yes, it was UC Berkeley as an institution committing this violence. Also, UC Berkeley should be punished for its action taken in a good faith attempt to prevent further violence.
How was this moron elected again?
Aquavelvaman
Banned
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/827112633224544256
Here's the President's view on the matter!
I just can't believe that this is the state of the world we live in
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/827112633224544256
Here's the President's view on the matter!
Ok fuck this I'm going to bed
excelsiorlef
Member
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/827112633224544256
Here's the President's view on the matter!
Lol different points of view...
StrategyFan
Member
context helps
if something bad happened and we don't know who did it, we get premature reactions like:
As someone who's lived an actual civil war, with real people bleeding, suffering and dying (for realsies, no respawns), with actual modern armies (Battlefield with better graphics), I find it reprehensible to condone violence like some folks here are doing; and I absolutely applaud everyone here who's taking a rational tone and, oh yes, advocating dialog and reason.
Even with people you hate! Who've oppressed you! I know, fucking impossible right?! Fucking what?! How can that be?!
Seriously though, the step beyond the word, is the bullet. Which is what some of you apparently want from your words here. guarantee you, 100%, the bullet doesn't solve shit. People disliked are always replaced by more people disliked. Killing the people in the country you hate, makes more for you to kill and hate. You're eventually going to have to stop and talk, it's better to skip the tragedy.
What's the statistic, like half the country disagrees with you? You have to work that shit out. If you don't do it with the weak and flimsy argument from reason, you're not going to do it at all. "Violence," escalates up, not down; and it's no fun when killing becomes normalized in a country.
Not talking to everyone here. Protest, block traffic, march, all that's as American as apple pie. But some of you are already in a really dark place that's going to drag you down, not save you.
Now, the folks I'm addressing aren't going to listen because they're in such a dark place that they're "past words." But I advise everyone else here to police violence advocacy and prevent it from gaining an air of normalcy. Bad things happen when violence is normalized in a country.
Also, not-crazy-people, if you attend a protest like Berkeley, you need to police the crazies setting things on fire, pepper spraying people (which is actually dangerous), and beating people. Those people are the ones who will fuck things up and hurt both you and others.
Even with people you hate! Who've oppressed you! I know, fucking impossible right?! Fucking what?! How can that be?!
Seriously though, the step beyond the word, is the bullet. Which is what some of you apparently want from your words here. guarantee you, 100%, the bullet doesn't solve shit. People disliked are always replaced by more people disliked. Killing the people in the country you hate, makes more for you to kill and hate. You're eventually going to have to stop and talk, it's better to skip the tragedy.
What's the statistic, like half the country disagrees with you? You have to work that shit out. If you don't do it with the weak and flimsy argument from reason, you're not going to do it at all. "Violence," escalates up, not down; and it's no fun when killing becomes normalized in a country.
Not talking to everyone here. Protest, block traffic, march, all that's as American as apple pie. But some of you are already in a really dark place that's going to drag you down, not save you.
Now, the folks I'm addressing aren't going to listen because they're in such a dark place that they're "past words." But I advise everyone else here to police violence advocacy and prevent it from gaining an air of normalcy. Bad things happen when violence is normalized in a country.
Also, not-crazy-people, if you attend a protest like Berkeley, you need to police the crazies setting things on fire, pepper spraying people (which is actually dangerous), and beating people. Those people are the ones who will fuck things up and hurt both you and others.
O.v.e.rlord
Banned
Nvm took it out of context sorry.
Actually, there are at least three sides, so far as I can tell. Protestors, counter-protestors, and a group of about 150 masked agitators, who as far as I've seen haven't been identified. The masked agitators attacked the police and people in the crowd.
ClosingADoor
Member
I agree with the protests, but damn, get the assholes out that go violent like that. Block the university, disrupt his speeches, but don't go around destroying things and harming people, unless in direct self defense.
https://twitter.com/KittenUwU/status/827016113783439361
Yup let's shovel that inconscious dude lying on the ground, that'll show 'em
https://twitter.com/almostjingo/status/827009436749164544
Or this chick who was pretty much just standing there, better hit her and spray her!
If you condone this then you are a huge pos, on the same fuckin level than Milo & friends, that's my take
Yup let's shovel that inconscious dude lying on the ground, that'll show 'em
https://twitter.com/almostjingo/status/827009436749164544
Or this chick who was pretty much just standing there, better hit her and spray her!
If you condone this then you are a huge pos, on the same fuckin level than Milo & friends, that's my take
The divide in the US does not stem from Antifa protestors.
I don't know what ass backwards dimension you stumbled out of, but condoning violence against Neo-Nazis is the least of the US' problems right now.
Or they're just a bunch of coward anarchists who put shit on their face, bring weapons, and, despite it being 100 on 1, still attack from the side and back. They just use peaceful protesters as cover so they can hurt people and destroy property with minimal risk.
SuperBanana
Banned
I'm all for punching nazis like Richard Spencer but beating unconscious people on the ground? That shit is disgusting and scummy. These protests turned into riots where shit was destroyed and people were seriously hurt. A Starbucks was smashed up and looted even though Starbucks openly stood up against Trump's immigrant ban. As left as I am I'm not going to sit here and be ok when the far-left do bad things just because Trump has done bad things too. That isn't how it works.
What do you suggest the peaceful protestors do about it? There are several anarchist groups in the Bay Area that show up to these events totally unprompted and wreak havoc. Most if not all of the wanton destruction of property and violence is caused by them, some of which are classified as low-level terrorist groups.
It's not really a stretch of the imagination that unarmed, non-violent protestors don't want to fuck with them.
Yea, see, it's never "your" problem, it's always "the other guy." Sure. That's what they say about you too. You call them fascist, and I've heard them say the left-wing is fascist. I'm not making an equivalency; the cause of the divide, is not a solution to the divide. The solution to the divide, is going to be dialogue sooner without violence or later with violence.
It's not "backwards" to remind people to tone it the fuck down on advocating violence. Every national disaster in history begins with the immovable rock and the unstoppable force.
TBiddy
Member
I don't think there's ever a good time to promote hate, violence and stuff like that. But I also don't think that you can blame him for the violence committed by someone else. There's only one party to blame there. Those who committed the violence. And those that encouraged it, as well.
StrategyFan
Member
the students hate when opportunistic randoms use students as cover to smash stuff up without police retaliation
it's possible that none of the vandalism/violence had anything to do with the university
it's possible that none of the vandalism/violence had anything to do with the university
Palette Swap
Member
I agree overall, but two points stand out to me:
1. "Even with people you hate! " is a framing that buries the underlying issue. The relationship between Milo and people here is characterized by the fact he denies people's basic humanity and rights. Framing it like you did makes it sound that it's on the protesters to take on Milo to not hate him, sit down and discuss why human beings deserve equal rights. There's no symmetry in that relationship that allows for a reasonably human middle ground.
2. Similarly, it's a quick extrapolation to say half the country is equivalent to Milo. He's pretty special. Even if a lot of people feel entirely unconcerned and tacitly or unknowingly approve his bullshit, they're not in the same place he is.
Framing it this way makes it a case of perfect being the enemy of good: you don't need to convince Milo (or his hardcore supporters) or make peace with him, it is a maximalist and ineffective ask. All you need to do is keep at bay dangerous elements with shows (like protests) that remind them you exist and won't budge, while finding allies somewhere in the middle.
"You" being here someone with liberal ideas about human dignity, who wants to further them in the long run and protect them in the very immediate future.
ClosingADoor
Member
Depends a bit on the type of protest. If it is organised, you can coordinate with police to try and prevent these things as good as possible.
Then here, I'll make this simple.
One side is defending racial, ethnic, and cultural inclusion. The other side makes Nazi symbols for fun, uses racial slurs proudly and harasses people online. You don't have a "dialogue" with this.
Milo and his ilk are neo-nazi fascists by definition. Just because they try to turn it around with "NO U!!!" does not change that.
Those anarchists then are directly sabatoging the protest. Not indirectly because "they make us look bad with the right wingers," no, no, they directly sabatogue it by attacking the protest's cause, legitimacy, and long-term viability.
What can be done about those shits? The protestors shouldn't have to police them... supposedly there's an actual police for that.
As far as I can tell from reading multiple news sources, about 150 unidentified masked people broke into the existing protest of 1500 or so and attacked cops and protestors. They came from off campus. The police were sheltering the protestors at one point from the black masked agitators.
So maybe those guys were antifa or some anarchist group, but wearing black masks is a protest tactic, not a group. It's been used by left and right. I don't know who the guys in masks were, other than they came prepared with pepper spray and pyrotechnics which they fired at cops. And it's not clear to me at all that they were particularly selective in who they hurt.
It sounds like you have the problem? I was just explaining why your point was difficult to understand. You know, the question you asked.
There are a number of reasonable explanations.
The political climate wasn't as contentious during the height of the tea party movement.
Anarchists might avoid right wing protests because it's impossible to blend in and get away with their actions like many probably will at Berkeley. Tea party protests were well organized and not as spontaneous as the Milo protest event at Berkeley tonight. It would make sense for an anarchists to seek out an already chaotic environment to further their goals of, generating chaos.
The left protests way more often than the right. Law of large numbers.
And, I don't remember any tea party protests in Berkeley, California, a city that probably has the greatest concentration of anarchists.
Nailed it.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
I have to say I agree with UCLU's stance on free speech with regards to hate speech. Reacting with violence will only cause more violence and have the other side act like they have some moral high ground, further justifying their stance.
Best way would be to react with speech.
Best way would be to react with speech.
Yeah. Just last week the story of the football team gang rapes brokes out and he has nothing to say about that, but god forbid a misogynistic asshole is prevented from spewing hate, it's guns blazing on twitter. What a complete tool.
NHarmonic.
Member
That's great, milo is a huge nazi piece of shit, and a cancer in USA. Fuck him.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/827112633224544256
Here's the President's view on the matter!
For fucks sake.
The university has nothing to do with this other than shutting it down for safety concerns.
That doesn't work anymore. You can't fight Nazis with words. Do you think after the Manson family killings, authorities should have just rolled up to Spahn ranch and given them a bunch of heartfelt reasons why they should stop being psycho killers?
Normalization of the alt-right's rhetoric under the pretense that everyone deserves their say is what has helped cause our country's slide into fascism.
It's probably being viewed with one big brush stroke... Violent students = bad university.
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