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[Brerlappin]

I'm generally of the opinion that violence breeds violence, and isn't a solution to anything. But you're dealing with a surging demographic of white supremacists spouting hate speech who now believe, (correctly), they have an ally in the White House, and as such they have become more and more brazen, more out there in the public eye as they try and normalize their new Alt-Right brand of hatred for minorities. Talking to these fuckers isn't going to solve anything. They're emboldened and only getting worse. You can sit back and hope it all blows over and if you want to do that, fair play to you. But in this case i have no ethical dilemma with people going out there and punching some fucking alt-right Nazi faces. Watching Spencer smacked into the Shadowlands and then seeing his youtube video where hes trying to downplay his black eye and make out like hes absolutely fine, but you can totally see he was legitimately shook was fucking BEAUTIFUL. Thats the only language these people understand so fuck them. His response to getting punched just showed hes a weak ass internet tough guy and the more of them that are exposed as such, the better.

 

[Boozeroony]

GUESS WHO'S BACK WITH THE RECEIPTS!!!!

Oh look who's defending hate-speech:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=229564119&postcount=370
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=229564693&postcount=377
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=229515333&postcount=134

"Both sides are the same" type bullshit here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=229354037&postcount=408

Oh look who's attacking peaceful protests by acting like it's all riots:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228778145&postcount=1210

Oh look who feels that people are too easily offended:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228366817&postcount=273

AND LOOK WHO FUCKING VOTED FOR BREXIT AND JUSTIFIES DISCOURAGING VOTES FOR HILLARY:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228452137&postcount=716
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228452311&postcount=721
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228452767&postcount=732

And look at how you respond to Trump's Russian connections:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228072481&postcount=5450
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228069603&postcount=5157
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228069519&postcount=5149
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228069479&postcount=5147
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228068177&postcount=4987
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228068275&postcount=5004

"Oh this election couldn't possibly be white backlash because Obama won before":
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=226696079&postcount=297

Care to explain all this?

He is much more level-headed than you, tbh. His posts are not what you would expect based on your single line 'summaries'.

 

[PaulCRose]

GUESS WHO'S BACK WITH THE RECEIPTS!!!!

Oh look who's defending hate-speech:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=229564119&postcount=370
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=229564693&postcount=377
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=229515333&postcount=134

"Both sides are the same" type bullshit here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=229354037&postcount=408

Oh look who's attacking peaceful protests by acting like it's all riots:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228778145&postcount=1210

Oh look who feels that people are too easily offended:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228366817&postcount=273

AND LOOK WHO FUCKING VOTED FOR BREXIT AND JUSTIFIES DISCOURAGING VOTES FOR HILLARY:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228452137&postcount=716
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228452311&postcount=721
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228452767&postcount=732

And look at how you respond to Trump's Russian connections:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228072481&postcount=5450
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228069603&postcount=5157
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228069519&postcount=5149
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228069479&postcount=5147
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228068177&postcount=4987
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228068275&postcount=5004

"Oh this election couldn't possibly be white backlash because Obama won before":
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=226696079&postcount=297

Care to explain all this?

Lock him up?

 

[TimeEffect]

I see a lot of keyboard warriors in here advocating violence without understand the repercussions of it.

You do realize that innocent people get hurt amongst this right?

I dislike Milo, but if you think this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSMKGRyWKas and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3z_jqbLCz0 and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXkF0c5nXfg and this https://twitter.com/Lukewearechange/status/827042178136424448 are acceptable then you should be ashamed of yourself, truly ashamed of yourself.

The advocating for violence in this thread is unbelievable, if you want to punch Milo in the face then go right ahead, I could care less, it's one man, do whatever makes you feel better but it won't accomplish a thing, it really won't, it will only serve to make him and the people who sympathise with him stronger and ultimately will end with the people creating this violence going to jail themselves for nothing all the while he is still out saying the things he says.

How about debating and actually you know, destroying his views with objective facts? I know some of you believe debate does not work but even if it doesn't is the alterative really this? Violence?

But rioting in the streets? Beating people with baseball bats? Smashing windows and setting things on fire?

The hypocrisy in here is outstanding to see and the fact it's being allowed to continue is a disgrace.

Debating is not the way to do it. Not when misinformation is the prevalent tactic in muddying waters and serving to distract and cause confusion.

It's like debating Young earth creationists. You dont do it. It's not something worth entertaining. It's too damaging to give them a podium.

It just so happens that people like this advocate very harmful views. This is magnified by the President. Im sure Milo would have gotten away with this if the president didn't prove that the US is willing to normalize Nazism, but people are now pushing back hard because they've lost too much already.

As for the violence, you are right, it is definitely easy to encourage violence, but you cant have an ideal kind of violence.

The violent protests, harming of innocent people, or destruction of innocent property sucks, and if a group of people are purposely doing this for the sake of it, that's something that needs to be confronted as well. But I dont know how to deal with that.

I guess it becomes difficult when you say "punch a Nazi" but then have other people who may be supporting their cause, but less obviously (People filming to condemn protestors, racists crying about free speech suppression, etc).

It also becomes difficult when violence is taken too far... one thing to punch some Nazis, but what happens if one of them is punched too hard or left unconscious or dies? All of this plays into their hands and whether its through violence or debating, it just seems like the ideas are too deep rooted and spread far too easily for it to ever go away.

We could at least have the president to maintain some sensibility, but that's no longer the case

 

[necrosis]

Oh man I hadn't followed up on this either, but I love this. I loooooove this. This dude should be afraid. He should be fucking terrified. And he should get hit again.

yep

the solution to the nazi problem isn't appeasement; it's grinding them into dust and driving them underground where their spiteful messages echo in empty rooms

 

[collige]

I read that as erection and had a good laugh.

############################################

Okay someone has to update me. When did Milo become a Nazi? Is there a hard line definition or are we allowing that definition to creep ever slowly away from actual nationalistic race based right-wing despotism toward simple right-wing racism?

Because not everyone who's a right-wing racist is a Nazi right? Or am I behind the times?

The kids at Berkeley have the right to protest this shitheads talks. The violence is discouraging, but expected given the climate and location. The main problem is that I'm having trouble reconciling the very right and good idea of "Punch Nazis" with "violently protest against Milo and his supporters" which I'm not quite sure we should be doing, to be honest. Milo has his share of dangerous and intentionally inflammatory speech, but are we fighting against Nazism when we pursue aims of violence against him, or are we fighting against soft white-nationalism?

If we are going to group those things together, is that the end of it? Or is the definition creep going to move toward regular racists, then diet racists, then bad allies? This may sound like pedantry but I think it's extremely important. If we are at the point where violence is acceptable to use against certain groups (it obviously is) then we need to be able to say for sure that person [x] requires violent intervention right? Is it okay to punch Milo? His supporters? Only when they're speaking?

I don't want this to be taken as tacit approval of Milo's vile rhetoric, only as a way to understand just how far things have gone or will go in order to push back against the rising tide of white-nationalism. We've opened the pandora's box of political violence as a means to an end and can't sit around ignoring it.

I might be wrong on this because I try to avoid Milo at all costs, but AFAIK he's not a nazi or white nationalist in the same vein of Spencer but is just a bigot of virtually every variety that tries to be as edgy and assholish as possible in everything he does.

 

[TestOfTide]

He is much more level-headed than you, tbh. His posts are not what you would expect based on your single line 'summaries'.

He has a history of doing this "both sides are bad" bullshit and using it to justify attacking those that oppose far-right fascism.

 

[marrec]

He is much more level-headed than you, tbh. His posts are not what you would expect based on your single line 'summaries'.

TestofTide's weird purity tests always leave a bitter taste in my mouth but especially this one. Really scraping around the bottom of the barrel to try and indict someone.

No hate Test, but maybe you're getting a bit full of yourself with these "expose" posts, very tabloid if you ask me.

 

[Foggy]

It's clear he has a lack of self-respect for sure. I don't know if he hates himself or sees working with the dullards of the extreme right as a quick way to money and fame or as his actual ideology though. From our perspective it's a moot point obviously because he espouses these things nonetheless.

So Breitbart are literally Nazis? What do we do about it? We're advocating political violence and it's our duty to punch Nazis, does that mean we need to act out violently against Breitbart?

What are you getting at? Just come out and say it.

 

[capitalCORN]

I'm generally of the opinion that violence breeds violence, and isn't a solution to anything. But you're dealing with a surging demographic of white supremacists spouting hate speech who now believe, (correctly), they have an ally in the White House, and as such they have become more and more brazen, more out there in the public eye as they try and normalize their new Alt-Right brand of hatred for minorities. Talking to these fuckers isn't going to solve anything. They're emboldened and only getting worse. You can sit back and hope it all blows over and if you want to do that, fair play to you. But in this case i have no ethical dilemma with people going out there and punching some fucking alt-right Nazi faces. Watching Spencer smacked into the Shadowlands and then seeing his youtube video where hes trying to downplay his black eye and make out like hes absolutely fine, but you can totally see he was legitimately shook was fucking BEAUTIFUL. Thats the only language these people understand so fuck them. His response to getting punched just showed hes a weak ass internet tough guy and the more of them that are exposed as such, the better.

I've said this before. A nazi's self aggrandizing comes from delusion. Give them a real wake up call and they fold. The sooner and more often we do this the better.

 

[Screaming Meat]

GUESS WHO'S BACK WITH THE RECEIPTS!!!!

This isn't cool.

 

[necrosis]

He is much more level-headed than you, tbh. His posts are not what you would expect based on your single line 'summaries'.

he is absolutely not lol

 

[Easy_D]

It's ironic to see the vile actions of 'decent people'.

Anarchists riding the waves of protests is nothing new though. These people aren't there for a cause, they just want to hide behind the commotion and fuck shit up

 

[game-boi]

[snip]
Care to explain all this?

 

[sazzy]

Aren't you the one posting tweets from a Breitbart journalist? Also:

Ok. Cool comic.

 

[Albino_Yeti]

I see a lot of keyboard warriors in here advocating violence without understand the repercussions of it.

You do realize that innocent people get hurt amongst this right?

I dislike Milo, but if you think this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSMKGRyWKas and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3z_jqbLCz0 and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXkF0c5nXfg and this https://twitter.com/Lukewearechange/status/827042178136424448 are acceptable then you should be ashamed of yourself, truly ashamed of yourself.

The advocating for violence in this thread is unbelievable, if you want to punch Milo in the face then go right ahead, I could care less, it's one man, do whatever makes you feel better but it won't accomplish a thing, it really won't, it will only serve to make him and the people who sympathise with him stronger and ultimately will end with the people creating this violence going to jail themselves for nothing all the while he is still out saying the things he says.

How about debating and actually you know, destroying his views with objective facts? I know some of you believe debate does not work but even if it doesn't is the alterative really this? Violence?

But rioting in the streets? Beating people with baseball bats? Smashing windows and setting things on fire?

The hypocrisy in here is outstanding to see and the fact it's being allowed to continue is a disgrace.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

 

[Foggy]

It's ironic to see the vile actions of 'decent people'.

Have you never seen black flags and black masks in riots? Are you really unfamiliar with anarchists?

 

[Sai-kun]

This isn't cool.

But is it worse than punching Nazis?

Also LOL "think of the ATMs"

 

[TBiddy]

He is much more level-headed than you, tbh. His posts are not what you would expect based on your single line 'summaries'.

None of the summaries makes sense to me. I'd argue that the post was a clear "ad hominem" attack.

 

[Boozeroony]

Btw, why are you calling people 'nazi'? It's not like they served under Hitler between 1933 and 1945.

 

[marrec]

What are you getting at? Just come out and say it.

I'm getting at exactly what I'm asking. We're not talking about metaphorically punching people to defend the freedom of American Democracy anymore. This isn't an allegory or a history lesson. We're literally dealing with actual Nazis advocating for racial purity through genocidal violence.

I want to be sure I'm punching the right people.

I might be wrong on this because I try to avoid Milo at all costs, but AFAIK he's not a nazi or white nationalist in the same vein of Spencer but is just a bigot of virtually every variety that tries to be as edgy and assholish as possible in everything he does.

I'm fairly certain he's just a hack tabloid writer who's found a niche using his writing to inflame and incite. He takes it too far by targeting specific individuals which is dangerous as hell, but a Nazi?

 

[Madame M]

This isn't cool.

Reading NeoGAF posts isn't cool? Why are you here? He just linked to his posts from this very forum.

 

[TestOfTide]

TestofTide's weird purity tests always leave a bitter taste in my mouth but especially this one. Really scraping around the bottom of the barrel to try and indict someone.

No hate Test, but maybe you're getting a bit full of yourself with these "expose" posts, very tabloid if you ask me.

Purity test? I don't do this shit on everyone, I do it specifically when I have reason to believe someone is not arguing in good faith.

Phil0sophy is such a disingenuous guy that he literally tried to argue that Trump's EO is not a Muslim Ban.

Btw, why are you calling people 'nazi'? It's not like they served under Hitler between 1933 and 1945.

Buddy, you can't be serious with this shit.

Milo is a fucking Nazi because he wore a goddamn Nazi Era Iron Cross:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughTrum...ember_that_time_milo_yiannopoulos_showed_off/

 

[ittoryu]

First of all, words do not constitute as violence, words are words, violence is a physical act, words can indeed lead to violence, that's undebatable but words do not equal violence.

What?
Words are not violence?

OK, we are done here I guess.

 

[Sai-kun]

Btw, why are you calling people 'nazi'? It's not like they served under Hitler between 1933 and 1945.

shhh it's time to let other people talk now 😘

 

[marrec]

Purity test? I don't do this shit on everyone, I do it specifically when I have reason to believe someone is not arguing in good faith.

Phil0sophy is such a disingenuous guy that he literally tried to argue that Trump's EO is not a Muslim Ban.

Listen, I appreciate what you're trying to do, but arguing that Trump's EO is not a Muslim Ban is a reasonable position to take, I think it's wrong as the spirit of the EO is clear if not the result... but it's not exactly unthinkable that someone would argue differently.

 

[Zantetsuken]

Can't believe Trump threatened the school.

 

[Alavard]

Btw, why are you calling people 'nazi'? It's not like they served under Hitler between 1933 and 1945.

I bet this sounded a lot better in your head.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

You'll note that Nazism didn't poof out of existence when WWII ended.

 

[everyday math]

Can't believe Trump threatened the school.

Considering they had nothing to do with it.

 

[Madame M]

Can't believe Trump threatened the school.

He threatens everyone, that's his MO.

 

[jorma]

wasn't test of tide JUST RECENTLY banned? He sure did get off easy :X

i really don't like those purity test "receits" posts that seems to be his main contribution.

 

[marrec]

What?
Words are not violence?

OK, we are done here I guess.

Words can ABSOLUTELY be violence, it's important to make sure people understand this.

Words cannot literally be a punch to the face of course, but there is a reason the pen is mightier than the sword.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Btw, why are you calling people 'nazi'? It's not like they served under Hitler between 1933 and 1945.

Dude literally said women would enjoy being put in camps.

 

[jiiikoo]

Listen, I appreciate what you're trying to do, but arguing that Trump's EO is not a Muslim Ban is a reasonable position to take, I think it's wrong as the spirit of the EO is clear if not the result... but it's not exactly unthinkable that someone would argue differently.

Trump did call it a ban though.

 

[sazzy]

Btw, why are you calling people 'nazi'? It's not like they served under Hitler between 1933 and 1945.

Some people yell "Nazi" at you if you don't agree with their point of view 100% on everything.

 

[MHWilliams]

Okay someone has to update me. When did Milo become a Nazi? Is there a hard line definition or are we allowing that definition to creep ever slowly away from actual nationalistic race based right-wing despotism toward simple right-wing racism?

I don't want this to be taken as tacit approval of Milo's vile rhetoric, only as a way to understand just how far things have gone or will go in order to push back against the rising tide of white-nationalism. We've opened the pandora's box of political violence as a means to an end and can't sit around ignoring it.

As I said earlier, he's alt-right adjacent.

As I also said earlier, I don't find it much of a problem because:

A) protest is free speech
B) those protesters who turn to violence do not aptly cover the entire protest
C) violent actions will be taken care of by the state and law enforcement

What I tend to find interesting is the intense amount of hand-wringing over disallowing protest of Milo's particular rhetoric, but not also have an intense and much larger issue with the thrust of that rhetoric being put into legislative action by a President who has literally offered up issues of free speech in its textbook definition.

Don't do this. Argue the poster based on their posts within a thread. You can point to one or two other posts if you believe someone isn't posting in good faith, but large screeds like this aren't welcome.

 

[ittoryu]

Words can ABSOLUTELY be violence, it's important to make sure people understand this.

Words cannot literally be a punch to the face of course, but there is a reason the pen is mightier than the sword.

Yep, that's why I am done with the other poster.

 

[theguy]

GUESS WHO'S BACK WITH THE RECEIPTS!!!!

Oh look who's defending hate-speech:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=229564119&postcount=370
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=229564693&postcount=377
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=229515333&postcount=134

"Both sides are the same" type bullshit here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=229354037&postcount=408

Oh look who's attacking peaceful protests by acting like it's all riots:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228778145&postcount=1210

Oh look who feels that people are too easily offended:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228366817&postcount=273

AND LOOK WHO FUCKING VOTED FOR BREXIT AND JUSTIFIES DISCOURAGING VOTES FOR HILLARY:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228452137&postcount=716
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228452311&postcount=721
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228452767&postcount=732

And look at how you respond to Trump's Russian connections:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228072481&postcount=5450
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228069603&postcount=5157
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228069519&postcount=5149
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228069479&postcount=5147
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228068177&postcount=4987
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228068275&postcount=5004

"Oh this election couldn't possibly be white backlash because Obama won before":
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=226696079&postcount=297

Care to explain all this?

This gave me a boner.

 

[TestOfTide]

wasn't test of tide JUST RECENTLY banned? He sure did get off easy :X

Yes, I was banned because I let myself get too angry at Bernie Bro types that wanted to spend more time attacking democrats than opposing Trump.

Don't do this. Argue the poster based on their posts within a thread. You can point to one or two other posts if you believe someone isn't posting in good faith, but large screeds like this aren't welcome.

The whole damn point is to show that Phil0sophy isn't arguing in good faith.

 

[Branduil]

Some people yell "Nazi" at you if you don't agree with their point of view 100% on everything.

And also if you espouse violence against minorities in service of ethno-nationalism. Weird.

 

[Foggy]

I'm getting at exactly what I'm asking. We're not talking about metaphorically punching people to defend the freedom of American Democracy anymore. This isn't an allegory or a history lesson. We're literally dealing with actual Nazis advocating for racial purity through genocidal violence.

I want to be sure I'm punching the right people.

You're being deliberately obtuse for the dumbest fucking reason. Come out and say what you're getting at.

 

[Jerry]

What?
Words are not violence?

OK, we are done here I guess.

Its pretty easy to google the word 'violence' and see the result.

 

[Boozeroony]

Have you never seen black flags and black masks in riots? Are you really unfamiliar with anarchists?

I used to be one myself. I know these type of people, self-deluded pompous thugs. Using their supposedly moral high ground to destroy anything that does not align with their beliefs. They claim to be super open-minded only to use violence and hate to people opposing their beliefs. It's nearly religious.

Ive shed this horrible mindset years ago after questioning some of their methods.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

If linking posts to shit you specifically said on this forum is now "purity tests" I dont even know. So now we also gotta pretend that people with a history of arguing in bad faith arent because it's "mean"? If you dont wanna have your posts brought to a discussion where you are literally lecturing people and calling them abhorrent then frankly, go away.

That's honestly my position. Now you dont even have to be held to what you argue in the past?

 

[AntChum]

You don't know anything about the history of fascism 'ringing the bell'. 1920s and 30s Europe was a time of continuous physical political violence. The rise of Nazism could not have been achieved without the Left sabotaging its political legitimacy with the working class and contributing to moral decay by engaging in riots, streetfighting and assassinations.

I'm well aware of the rise of fascism in Europe, but that doesn't change the fact there's Nazis and White-supremacists in the White House right now. That hasn't been born out of the US Left engaging in riots or assassination, but in part due to the Left's continual refusal to present a united front against the Right, as well as the Right's propaganda machine that paints 'libtards' as an enemy of freedom/the people regardless of what form the Left's opposition takes.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Some people yell "Nazi" at you if you don't agree with their point of view 100% on everything.

 

[Palette Swap]

What?
Words are not violence?

OK, we are done here I guess.

Yeah, verbal violence is very much a thing.

Again, this is violence.
(If you're uncomfortable with transphobic language, please skip the following)

In critiquing leftist criticism of the phrase “man up,” Yiannopoulos said around the 49:52 mark, “I’ll tell you one UW-Milwaukee student that does not need to man up.” He then showed the student’s photo. “Have any of you come into contact with this person?” he asked. “This quote unquote nonbinary trans woman forced his way into the women’s locker rooms this year.” He went on:

“I see you don’t even read your own student media. He got into the women’s room the way liberals always operate, using the government and the courts to weasel their way where they don’t belong. In this case he made a Title IX complaint. Title IX is a set of rules to protect women on campus effectively. It’s couched in the language of equality, but it’s really about women, which under normal circumstances would be fine, except for how it’s implemented. Now it is used to put men in to women’s bathrooms. I have known some passing trannies in my life. Trannies — you’re not allowed to say that. I’ve known some passing trannies, which is to say transgender people who pass as the gender they would like to be considered.”
He then referred to the photo, which was still onscreen, and said, “Well, no. The way that you know he’s failing is I’d almost still bang him.” The audience laughed.

 

[NobleXenon]

Btw, why are you calling people 'nazi'? It's not like they served under Hitler between 1933 and 1945.

Nazi is National Socialists.

Many white people only like social services and social safety nets for other white people in their country; not for minorities.

Nationalism is on the rise.

Scapegoating and hate crimes against minorities are on the rise.

Not hard to put two and two together.

 

[TestOfTide]

Dude literally said women would enjoy being put in camps.

Also he LITERALLY wore a Nazi Iron Cross:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughTrum...ember_that_time_milo_yiannopoulos_showed_off/

 

[capitalCORN]

Listen, I appreciate what you're trying to do, but arguing that Trump's EO is not a Muslim Ban is a reasonable position to take, I think it's wrong as the spirit of the EO is clear if not the result... but it's not exactly unthinkable that someone would argue differently.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/was...ies-to-ban-the-word-1485891339-htmlstory.html