Support NeoGAF

[Ty4on]

My top suspects are melon and SkyOdin. Also LP but I guess I'm wrong about that one...

Me too. Sky is almost too obvious with his tiebreaker and in the initial posts about peeking:

Wouldn't that just create confusion though? What if a cop gets a positive read on scum on Night 1 and tries to tell everyone, but it is buried under several fake claims? We wouldn't know the veracity of the claim until the cop dies, but the Mafia, seeing the accurate claim, could just hold off on killing the cop and instead discredit them in the thread.

I suppose that would be a difficult and risky play for the Mafia. Giving a known cop more time to gather more intel is bad no matter what.

*sigh*

We are going to have no way of knowing if any cop claim is true or not, aren't we? With an unknown number of cops, we have no way of being certain of anything.

Just like Hyper he looked more like someone trying to dismantle the strategy than someone trying to input useful advice.

 

[Sophia]

You didn't seem very suspicious of Hyper and null read him so why did you vote for him in the end?

The whole shtick about Splinter not bothering to read Hyper's post unless he survived, then turning around and voting for him really bothers me. The heck was up with that?

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Morning guys

On way to interview here so can't really make a proper post. But.... RIP L_P

So we have one confirmed townie, we should look at L_P's suss list from yesterday and pursue some of his tracks of thought.

I peeked splinteroo and he was a-okay.

Will be back later!

 

[Sophia]

I need to relook over SkyOdin, real fast. I didn't get much of a chance during the night phase due to being busy. Apologizes for that.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Yea I'll also be honest need to take a bit to read over the thread once I get home. I didn't want to waste time doing it yesterday as I expected to be dead.

 

[Sophia]

Of the four top votes in question, I think L_P and Terra are somewhat more suspicious than Melon and Hyper.

I actually am not getting too strong of scum vibes from Hyper. Hyperactivity has been active and involved in ironing out the problems of Kawl's peek strategy. I actually have more doubts about Kawl than Hyper at the moment, but I can save that for Day 2.

A Terrabyte lynch feels based solely on Terra being a low-activity poster, who has mostly been coasting by and making the bare minimum amount of posts.

I don't really like L_P's activity so far, but it looks like the votes have focused on Hyper and Terra, so I think the momentum is moving towards one of those two as I write this post. If I have to chose between those two, I suppose I will vote for Terrabyte.

Vote: Terrabyte20xx

Most immediate thing that sticks out with his vote on Terra is that he had a confirmed townie on one end as suspicious, and on the other end he has a confirmed scum on the other. There's also doubts about Kawl, whom lead the vote against Hyper so he's likely (but not confirmed) to be town.

hmm...

 

[Ty4on]

I only moved from L_P to break the tie. When I switched back it was clear Hyper was going to be lynched without my help so I went back to where my gut feeling was. I was obviously wrong, but I generally think having all players on a single player at day end is less useful than having the votes be a bit more scattered.

I can see this as townie. As a scum you'd rather want your vote on a scum mate near the end rather than look like someone copping out.

-------------------------------------------------

This is why I was confused, like a Cop can't scum read someone in thread, check them and find their town, and post their results because it immediately outs them. So your plan would mean the cop has to only check someone that they their behavior has indicted that they think is town. Doesn't this sort of handicap the Cop in a way then? It protects them (probably) but stops them from checking people they prod in thread as scum?

So another question! I am coming around on this idea btw, if everyone is on board for peeking. But are all the fake cops peeking that they townread someone or are some meant to be mixing in scum reads as well? Since if everyone only posts they townread someone then what does the cop do if they actually hit scum, claim?

Proto-Fireblend, but I noticed these tonight. I love the tone of them and it really contrasts with Hyper's posts. He seems much more interested in furthering town agenda and it reads like he really thought about it.

 

[cabot]

I was gonna wait for Sky to respond, but hell I might as well lay my cards on the table.

SkyOdin:

My excuse is the same as yours: I went to bed after making that post. However, after waking up and reading over the posts you made last night, I am now getting some more definitive scummy vibes from you. Your opening vote on YesNOnoNOYes really did come across as a joke with no weight to it, so to turn around and call Yenny scum for not responding to it seems suspicious. You are being constantly suspicious of those who vote for you, so you are coming across as highly defensive. You also criticize me for targeting an "easy target", i.e. you, but then turn around and place a vote on Lone Prodigy using similar reasoning to what I used to place a vote on you. It feels like you are using a double standard for what kind of logic is acceptable between the votes others place an you and the votes you place on others.

I think I am happy leaving my vote on you for now.

There's quite a few non-truths in this post, which I pointed out in my response:

OK, my votes on Terra though.


I'm eliminating the players I think have contributed nothing of worth today.

I've also been openly suspicious of one single player on my vote trail, you.

Kawl was a neutral/null and Splinter is uncertain because its Splinter. They're both active enough to not get my vote on D1 though.

But cool, yeah all suspicious cretins.

I also brought up his point about assuming my vote on yeeny was a clear joke:

Also, back to SkyOdin:

Assumptions make asses. This is a game where anything can be passed as a joke if its under the spotlight. I don't like people just making a narrative themselves with comments made by others. Attack it, clarify the jokes. Don't just accept it.

Neither of these got a response from him, the next time he posts he's calling out Sophia on not voting:

Sophia, are you planning on making a vote? I have noticed that you have not been voting on people, despite calling them out as scummy. You did have a vote on YesNOnoNoYes earlier, but you removed it without much explanation. We are short on time, so it might be time to make your final vote.

OK.

The really interesting post is next:

Of the four top votes in question, I think L_P and Terra are somewhat more suspicious than Melon and Hyper.

I actually am not getting too strong of scum vibes from Hyper. Hyperactivity has been active and involved in ironing out the problems of Kawl's peek strategy. I actually have more doubts about Kawl than Hyper at the moment, but I can save that for Day 2.

A Terrabyte lynch feels based solely on Terra being a low-activity poster, who has mostly been coasting by and making the bare minimum amount of posts.

I don't really like L_P's activity so far, but it looks like the votes have focused on Hyper and Terra, so I think the momentum is moving towards one of those two as I write this post. If I have to chose between those two, I suppose I will vote for Terrabyte.

Vote: Terrabyte20xx

Now we know his thoughts on Hyper as the day ends, actively defends him and breaks the tie in his favour. There's a vote count a few posts up before this one though, and here are the top 4 votes:

hyperactivity (3)
kristoffer 23 (46)
kawl_usc 279
sophia 378 (394)
yesnononoyes 384
sophia 401

terrabyte20xx (3)
cabot 233
stanleypalmtree 264
*splinter 396

lone_prodigy (2)
melonrabbit 214
fireblend 316

cabot (1)
kawl_usc 24 (265)
lone_prodigy 31 (31)
*splinter 37 (51)
kristoffer 46
skyodin 206

melonrabbit (1)
yesnononoyes 270 (384)
ty4on 280

So yeah, melon and I are both tied 4th, but I don't even get a mention in this despite the fact Sky is the one pushing for my vote in the first place, and he specifically puts Hyper and melon in the same 'safe' box, preferring to go after Terra and L_P.

We know one of his 'safe' pair is scum and one of his 'scum' pair is town.


I found this when looking for stuff on melon, this is a weird link. To the point where it seems a little too obvious to be scum linking themselves together. But it's glaring enough for me to bring up, at least.

Is this going anywhere or can't I see the lights for the tunnel?

 

[cabot]

Also, I thought bringing fire's logic here was pertinent:

I only moved from L_P to break the tie. When I switched back it was clear Hyper was going to be lynched without my help so I went back to where my gut feeling was. I was obviously wrong, but I generally think having all players on a single player at day end is less useful than having the votes be a bit more scattered.

If Sky was so sure I was scum, why didn't he just sit the vote on me? It was 3-3 when he voted on Terra, he made a choice to specifically save Hyper. I find that a little weird for someone you town read on Day 1, I was happy for either of them to die at that point. I had no problem with the tie.

 

[Kawl_USC]

That last bit about sky putting melon and hyper in the same box jumped out at me when Sophia quotes that post above. I find sky suspicious, but would be hard pressed to say both him and melon are scum. Have to look at the other posts and activity at the time. It could be a first time scum member over doing it when teammates weren't around.

 

[Terrabyte20xx]

So.. L_P died and was the cop.

I went and dug out the post he made when someone asked for his top scum and it's.. uh.. interesting.

I didn't really see any scumhunting from anyone until the peeking discussion had peaked and dissipated.

I actually had some quotes from Splinter which seemed a bit fishy (his early vote on Kawl, not reading the setup and being unaware of the "C's") but his posts on page 3 were better so I deleted them.

My top scum at the moment are melon, Hyper, and Terra. Nothing groundbreaking, unfortunately.

Hyper, who we confirmed as scum, melon, who gathered quite a bit of suspicion near the end there and... me, the guy with most votes behind Hyper.


Yeah.

 

[Sophia]

Is this going anywhere or can't I see the lights for the tunnel?

Just like Hyper he looked more like someone trying to dismantle the strategy than someone trying to input useful advice.

This was from my previous day phase, when I asked Ynnny about it. I mentioned he seemed to be going back and fourth from confidence and timidity, and pointed out the following quotes.

Are YOU scum?

Vote: Ty4on

I don't want any stone left unturned in our search.

Wouldn't that just create confusion though? What if a cop gets a positive read on scum on Night 1 and tries to tell everyone, but it is buried under several fake claims? We wouldn't know the veracity of the claim until the cop dies, but the Mafia, seeing the accurate claim, could just hold off on killing the cop and instead discredit them in the thread.

I suppose that would be a difficult and risky play for the Mafia. Giving a known cop more time to gather more intel is bad no matter what.

*sigh*

We are going to have no way of knowing if any cop claim is true or not, aren't we? With an unknown number of cops, we have no way of being certain of anything.

I understand why you are going "hmm", but it is just me stressing about things unnecessarily. With an unknown number of cops/doctors/whatever, we can't definitively rule out a fake claim without a confession or a role flip.

My worries are probably unfounded.

I do think that it is a bit odd of a suggestion. We can talk about top town picks independently of the "peeks". I do realize that peeking a mafia member would immediately tip them off that the "peek"er isn't a real cop, but picking your top town doesn't necessarily prevent that situation. Sticking to "don't fake peek the people you think are mafia" seems like the simpler advice.

If it is just cops + one or two vanilla townies + one or two scum who do the peeks, then the plan can absolutely backfire. It would narrow down both the possible cops and possible total number of PRs. If everyone peeks, then it might help accomplish its goal.

So, how confident are you that people will actually hop onboard this peek plan?

Kawl has proposed a plan to give cover to town's cops where everyone sorta fake claims cop by saying that they looked at someone during the night phase. If everyone says that they looked at someone and found them to be town, then the cops can safely clear people on Day 2. We just won't know it until the cops flip, but at that point we can go back and check. However, this plan is not without risks, and it will only work if everyone participates.

This was the answer I got back from him a few posts later.

I think the big risks are twofold:
First of all, if too many people fake peek at scum by accident, then the scum (who know more than town does) will acquire more information than the rest of us about who is or isn't a cop. One round of peeking probably wouldn't give them very much information, but each subsequent round is statistically likely to give them more and more, especially since people will need to change their picks each day, increasing the chance of hitting scum.

The second big risk is scum going along with this strategy in order to build town cred.

However, I am willing to go along with this strategy simply out of curiosity if nothing else. I have never seen it before, and I know that it wouldn't have caught on as a known strategy in a major Mafia community if there wasn't something to it. I figure I can at least learn something from it.




The answer to this is easy: I am still very inexperienced at Mafia. This is my fourth Mafia game ever. In my first and third games, I was eliminated Night 1 and Day 1 respectively, while in my second game I single-handedly lost the game for town. So... if you are stuck between reading me as scum and incompetent, I will inform you now that the latter is the true one. I am still in the phase where I am learning the game and getting a feel for how to actually read scumminess.

Also, I mostly just post whatever I am thinking at the moment, so it is probably going to be stream of consciousness-ish.

At the time, I kind of let off, because I liked the answer he gave. But now it no longer flies in light of his vote on Terra, his attempt to throw shade on our most towniest person alive (Kawl), and the fact that Hyper flipped scum.

He also threw a lot of shade on Kawl's suggestion in that post, and then justified going along with it with the excuse of curiosity and inexperience.

Vote:SkyOdin

 

[*Splinter]

Sophia:
Your argument against Hyper was off the back of Kawl's case, which could easily have been you positioning yourself in case you needed to bus.

At first you said:

Waiting to hear what Hyperactivity has to say before I decide my vote.

Not unreasonable, but you wanted to be visible on this issue before you even had anything to say about. This could also be:

Waiting to see how town reacts to Kawl's post before I decide my vote

You didn't actually cast your vote until after SkyOdin criticized you for not voting. Declaring suspicion without placing a vote is a pretty common scumtell, so you would need to correct this after having it pointed out:

Sophia, are you planning on making a vote? I have noticed that you have not been voting on people, despite calling them out as scummy. You did have a vote on YesNOnoNoYes earlier, but you removed it without much explanation. We are short on time, so it might be time to make your final vote.

Your next post:

Correct, I keep forgetting this is not majority lynch where I'm used to waiting to the last second. Sorry about that.

Vote: Hyperactivity

I'm very skeptical of Splinter's halfassed defense of Hyperactivity there too, as well as his justification for not actually doing the work in representing what he's saying. I could be persuaded for voting for him or LP too. But right now I think Hyperactivity is scum.

Fairly poor excuse for not voting all day.

In that same post you start to set up a narrative of me defending Hyper. Now I admit my posts could have been interpreted this way, but if you knew Hyper would flip scum then it was a good way to try and link a townie to him.

(As a slight aside, my "justification for not doing the work" was that I was "busy". We don't lie about real life and we don't question it, that's the deal, so I'm not sure what part of that you were "sceptical" about.)

You also leave a window open for voting LP in both this AND your next post, despite your extensive back and forth with Hyper leading up to this point.

There's also Lone_prodigy too. I'd be okay with a vote on him due to his lack of activity, general scum hunting, and such. Especially if we don't want to lynch a more active poster like Hyper.

Then Ynnny casts her vote, and you use this as a reason to unvote. Possibly testing the waters for a vote swing under the guise of "paranoia". I already mentioned yesterday that your complaint of Yn's vote didn't really make sense.

Unvote

Ynnny's vote on Hyperactivity has given me pause, especially because from what I can tell she hasn't spoken strongly about him...

This post was immediately after your unvote.

I think you're scum. I agree with a lot of what Kawl has said about your posting style. That being said, you're active, and I'm suddenly getting cold feet about that vote.

Making an excuse, making sure you can return to a Hyper vote quickly if things don't pan out.

Things don't pan out.

Hmm.... Fair enough. Call it paranoia trying to see all arguments for it.

Vote: Hyperactivity

If this was a bus, it certainly started strong. But the later posts were much less convincing.

 

[Ty4on]

Hyper does seem to focus on the numbers and game stats side of things and honestly that all is a bit over my head (like how the game is generated and %s) I don't think that it is necessary a tell in of itself but it does stand out and someone I want to continue to watch. Gut feeling is leaning scum but I really need to hear from him more.

I asked melon about Hyper thinking they could be scum mates.

Like I thought back then I think it looks scummy. As if she wants to throw some shade to distance herself, but not enough to make the situation worse for Hyper.

-----------------------

I agree with Kawl that a Hyper-Sky-melon team is almost too obvious. I don't wanna rule it out though as they've both been scummy and I haven't seen anything that struck out as townie.

 

[Sophia]

If this was a bus, it certainly started strong. But the later posts were much less convincing.

Let me read over the argument, but I do wish to present one immediate counterpoint in that I did attempt to look over Ynnny's posts to find reason for her vote beyond a mere tiebreaker. I noted as such too here.

This is all I can find from Ynnny regarding Hyper. That vote was extremely out of left field...

 

[*Splinter]

Despite that long shpiel, I would prefer a SkyOdin to a Sophia lynch at the moment. I was just responding to her question on the previous page.

 

[*Splinter]

Let me read over the argument, but I do wish to present one immediate counterpoint in that I did attempt to look over Ynnny's posts to find reason for her vote beyond a mere tiebreaker. I noted as such too here.

That's exactly the post I responded to yesterday. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Fireblend]

I'm interested in seeing how Sky will reply to these arguments, they seem a bit too good to be true but I could see that damning post being made by scum without consulting with the rest of their team first.

Right now I'm somewhat suspicious of Sophia, she said Ynny's vote for Hyper "gave her pause" yesterday, as if she was about to walk back from her suspicions on him, but then that was followed by two good replies from Ty4on and Ynny which I think a scum member would have had trouble walking back from. She might have felt obligated to commit to a Hyper bus at that point.

 

[Sophia]

Not unreasonable, but you wanted to be visible on this issue before you even had anything to say about. This could also be:

Also, again, I made an active attempt to discuss Hyperactivity's positions.

One thing at a time then.



I do recall Kawl saying a handful of people.





Did he change his stance on this later on or something?

To try and find reason and justification for his stance on Kawl

I'm looking for specifics regarding Kawl specifically. Can you link me to the post where he specifically says everyone needs to do it? He said a handful of people peeking at first, and then noted a little bit later that more people strengthens the idea.

Yeah but that's not him saying "Everyone needs to peek!", that's just an extension of what he said earlier. That it's stronger if everyone gets on board, but he doesn't expect it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, where did the idea that everyone was suppose to peek come from?

That's the impression I've gotten so far. I was mainly looking back for inconsistencies with Kawl's plan, but I don't seem to have found them? He probably could have been more detailed upfront about the specifics tho, but that's hardly worth mentioning.

Curiosity regarding him from the moment I joined the game.

Still trying to catch up, so let me get a quick read over. I do recall a post from Hyperactivity speculating on the possibility of roles that kind of caught my eye. Not like in the sense of "Hey he might be scum" but more in the sense of "Hey, if I were playing maybe I should pay attention to this...."

Comments on his defensive nature

.




Mentioned the one post earlier as basically saying a whole lot of nothing, and now there's this sarcastic part of your above post to add onto it. : \

Comments on his lousy attempt to engage in meta discussion instead of his actual arguments

I can't seem to get that to work.... and I have to ask, what relevance does MGS have to this game?

I'm interested in hearing your arguments, not your "style" or alignment in another game entirely. I understand that the statement that Kawl brought up is hard to refute, but surely there's something in this game you can use instead...?

I mean sure. I don't deny that my lack of a vote until later on looks suspicious. But do you really think I went to that much effort for a bus attempt?

 

[Sophia]

I'm interested in seeing how Sky will reply to these arguments, they seem a bit too good to be true but I could see that damning post being made by scum without consulting with the rest of their team first.

Right now I'm somewhat suspicious of Sophia, she said Ynny's vote for Hyper "gave her pause" yesterday, as if she was about to walk back from her suspicions on him, but then that was followed by two good replies from Ty4on and Ynny which I think a scum member would have had trouble walking back from. She might have felt obligated to commit to a Hyper bus at that point.

I unvoted and looked for evidence regarding Ynnny's vote on hyper as to not rule everything else out. You are right in that the replies I received were pretty good, Ty4on's post specifically.

 

[*Splinter]

Also, again, I made an active attempt to discuss Hyperactivity's positions.



To try and find reason and justification for his stance on Kawl







Curiosity regarding him from the moment I joined the game.



Comments on his defensive nature



Comments on his lousy attempt to engage in meta discussion instead of his actual arguments





I mean sure. I don't deny that my lack of a vote until later on looks suspicious. But do you really think I went to that much effort for a bus attempt?

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't all of these posts from after Kawl's case?

Yes I think you could do that much for a bus. It fits your play style, I don't see why you'd put less effort in to a bus than you would for a genuine questioning of a suspect?

 

[Sophia]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't all of these posts from after Kawl's case?

Yes I think you could do that much for a bus. It fits your play style, I don't see why you'd put less effort in to a bus than you would for a genuine questioning of a suspect?

You are largely correct. With exception of my initial curiosity regarding his post on the game setup, they are all from after Kawl's case because Kawl brought it to my attention.

 

[cabot]

Hyper's posts mentioning melon (by name at least)

Scum terra was in GAFIA 1. He played basically the same as town terra, asides from the one gambit he and Swamped brought up.

He hasn't posted much, what he has has been mostly gut reads, and I think (without having had the opportunity to check his posts due to needing to defend myself) he would be one of the better lynches for today.

*Splinter defended melon over consistency, yet other players have also been "consistent", and I'm not sure if that's really a good defense to begin with

Generally agreeing, Hyper being an exception. And it's obvious when those 2 posts are quoted side by side, but that's not how they appeared in the thread.

Regarding melonrabbit: no I don't have specific examples, it's not like I'm reading both threads in tandem. I started scum reading her but when writing up my reasons I got deja vu, now I think she is either playing very similarly to last game or doing a damn good job of imitating it. Can you give examples of her NOT being consistent?


Sophia: like I said, I'm busy this evening. If I get a minute I'll go back to Kawl's post, but if not it's a minor point that will still be there tomorrow.

You say that about melon, but how do you feel about Terra. He has played pretty cnsistently to how he normally plays, yet at the moment he seems like he might be one of our better candidates for getting lynched.



I've already addressed the reasons Kawl gave, which if anything seem more half-assed

*Splinter not reading both posts doesn't surprise me, we've had posters before that don't like long posts, and it might get somewhat frustrating at times. I was expecting a more kingkitty style "fuk long posts" sort of response, and his reason was surprisingly good: we have less than an hour, the thread moves fast, and he already though Kawl's post was bs.

You seem to only really have addressed why I posted that MGS Mafia link and whether Kawl brought up anyone voting, so yeah, tbh, this vote surprises me. Seems sort of forced, what's your exact reasoning for it again?

 

[*Splinter]

You didn't seem very suspicious of Hyper and null read him so why did you vote for him in the end?

I wasn't very sure on anything yesterday, but out of the final 4 I think I narrowed it down to Hyper and Terra both being null reads. There wasn't a whole lot that made me choose Hyper over Terra but his constant use of the high activity defense certainly bothered me, as I mentioned.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

im still mostly on melon, .... from yesterday.

i still think she was wishywashy on the peeking plan with most of her posts casting shade to it than being pro for it (kinda echoed hyper's posts' slants) (i .... think they also both used the term breadcrumbing) (but will check for sure)

plus again her behaviour of just attaching herself to a target after another person picked on someone was scummy as hell to meeeeee

also that last vote on hyper smelled really horrible. maf usually wants to be able to say, see i also voted him out so im as town as you guys are. love me. admit me to one of your own, etc.


but yeah, im still on melon. anyway, just got on a computer so..... will cast a vote once i reread the thread again (now with the knowledge that L_P was town cop)

 

[melonrabbit]

Just got back from work. Will respond shortly.

 

[melonrabbit]

Not denying how D1 went:

Fact – I was in the middle about peeking – given my inexperience with the game and feeling that it could possibly be exploited I DID hesitated and wanted to discuss it more.

Fact - I was wrong about LP. I felt he was coasting and posting the bare minimum outside of probably Cats (at the time, who was replaced so I’m not factoring that in). He was defensive and many of his arguments came across as hypocritical. I was wrong. I was wrong a lot in DP. I should have handled the situation better. I got upset and wanted to prove I was more town than him. I think what sent me off was how badly town got played in DP. We were always fighting and it was a mess and I feel bad with how I played then. Just like I feel bad now.

Fact – I voted for Hyper last minute. As I believe I mentioned I work until after 5pm and literally had to take a bathroom break to cast a vote. People (Ty, Ynny) throughout the day had been pressuring and pressuring me not to be so wishywashy on things and so I made a decision.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

hi melon, hope it was an okay day at work :> lets play mafia to unwind~

okay, so i went back the last few hours of D1 and i kind of dont like these posts from terra:

So... since we are getting pretty close to the deadline I think my main suspicions are on L_P and Hyper. Both are very gut driven, but not entirely. Hyper's posts aren't entirely bad but something about them just don't click with me. I would feel stronger about voting him if it weren't for the nagging feeling in the back of my mind that it's a false positive.

L_P feels to me that he's doubling down a little too much on his reads. It feels uncomfortable, like trying to set a narrative early on. But a part of me wonders if some of my thoughts on him is OMGUS due to him scum reading me.

^ seems like he was getting ready to distance himself from hyper (who was receiving a lot of heat at that moment but not yet the vote leader) but also wanted to swing the momentum towards lone_prodigy.

i note that both terra and hyper held back their votes until pretty late. i was a bit wary about it... cuz it was, at one point, a four way tie yesterday and having two maf votes could swing things nicely in their favour.

I've always been much more of an emotional player. By that I mean look for feeling and tone in posts rather then content for the foundation of my reads. This is forum mafia, where scum can look over posts two, three times, confer with the team, and then actually post. Feeling and tone are harder to guage due to text, but I find it much more reliable in the long run.

But instead of appealing to Meta, I'll humor you.


You talk too much. You make walls of posts that reply to every little thing and it feels very defensive. You constantly bring up the peeking issue despitw the fact that we really should be talking about other things as well.

Then again, large walls of text seem to the be the flavor of the game, something that I have never been cut out for.

^ another post of establishing a narrative that he is so against hyper and yet in these two posts, he didn't attach a vote against hyper, despite the statements contained in them.

dont like the tones of his general play style as well.

like, he complained that 24 hours phases are bad cuz there's not enough "reads" but other players have come up with good read efforts from the posts that were present. personally, i think it was one of the most active and productive D1 in gafia.

Not gonna lie though, I am not a fan of these 24 hour day phases, I don't feel like I can get good enough reads on people.

Vote: Terrabyte20xx

 

[Sophia]

Fact - I was wrong about LP. I felt he was coasting and posting the bare minimum outside of probably Cats (at the time, who was replaced so I’m not factoring that in). He was defensive and many of his arguments came across as hypocritical. I was wrong. I was wrong a lot in DP. I should have handled the situation better. I got upset and wanted to prove I was more town than him. I think what sent me off was how badly town got played in DP. We were always fighting and it was a mess and I feel bad with how I played then. Just like I feel bad now.

Don't feel bad about it. In general, short of a lucky streak a town player is more likely to be wrong than right. So it's not really all that unusual. What matters more is your actions than a single mistake.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Not denying how D1 went:

Fact – I was in the middle about peeking – given my inexperience with the game and feeling that it could possibly be exploited I DID hesitated and wanted to discuss it more.

Fact - I was wrong about LP. I felt he was coasting and posting the bare minimum outside of probably Cats (at the time, who was replaced so I’m not factoring that in). He was defensive and many of his arguments came across as hypocritical. I was wrong. I was wrong a lot in DP. I should have handled the situation better. I got upset and wanted to prove I was more town than him. I think what sent me off was how badly town got played in DP. We were always fighting and it was a mess and I feel bad with how I played then. Just like I feel bad now.

Fact – I voted for Hyper last minute. As I believe I mentioned I work until after 5pm and literally had to take a bathroom break to cast a vote. People (Ty, Ynny) throughout the day had been pressuring and pressuring me not to be so wishywashy on things and so I made a decision.

its okay to be wrong, melon :> townies will get things wrong more often that not! you should see me in star wars. i was terrible townie .___.;;;;

but yeah, the way your posts read about the peeking plan wasn't a good look (to me). they sounded a lot like hyper's slants. and now that he's been outed as maf....

and also, to be honest, that vote on hyper didn't make me feel you weren't wishywashy or decisive. it made me think that you wanted to get off lone_prodigy (a townie) and you wanted your vote to be on a maf so if people look back to do vote analysis in the future, they will think that you were as townie as every one else.



ANYWAY, i only went back to backread the last few hours of D1. So I will step back and think about the flow of people's movements now and return if I can present something else for us to chew on.

On another note, Stanleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey, come play with us ; ___ ;

 

[melonrabbit]

and also, to be honest, that vote on hyper didn't make me feel you weren't wishywashy or decisive. it made me think that you wanted to get off lone_prodigy (a townie) and you wanted your vote to be on a maf so if people look back to do vote analysis in the future, they will think that you were as townie as every one else.

Now I know LP is town. Yesterday both he and Hyper were both scum to me and I felt pressured (rational or not) to vote for Hyper.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Now I know LP is town. Yesterday both he and Hyper were both scum to me and I felt pressured (rational or not) to vote for Hyper.

for a maf, they would have known yesterday too that LP was town, tho

i cant rule the possibility out, melon, sorry. it's just such a scummy vote and as you can see im not the only one that picked that up. it's not a definitive nail in the coffin though, as you can see my vote isn't on you at the moment, because i do want to give you a benefit of the doubt...... more like, it was a thing that seems scummy.

take it easy~ we still got hours in today's phase and we still havent heard enough from a few people :>

 

[Terrabyte20xx]

hi melon, hope it was an okay day at work :> lets play mafia to unwind~

okay, so i went back the last few hours of D1 and i kind of dont like these posts from terra:



^ seems like he was getting ready to distance himself from hyper (who was receiving a lot of heat at that moment but not yet the vote leader) but also wanted to swing the momentum towards lone_prodigy.

i note that both terra and hyper held back their votes until pretty late. i was a bit wary about it... cuz it was, at one point, a four way tie yesterday and having two maf votes could swing things nicely in their favour.




^ another post of establishing a narrative that he is so against hyper and yet in these two posts, he didn't attach a vote against hyper, despite the statements contained in them.

dont like the tones of his general play style as well.

like, he complained that 24 hours phases are bad cuz there's not enough "reads" but other players have come up with good read efforts from the posts that were present. personally, i think it was one of the most active and productive D1 in gafia.




Vote: Terrabyte20xx

I'm sorry, but the bolded just plain ticks me off.

So you're telling me that just because some players have reads after within 24 hours that my saying that I don't feel like I could get strong enough reads in the allotted time is proof positive that I had an agenda to set? Seriously?!?

My personal playstyle is one where I like to sit and watch the direction of conversation over the course of days, not walls of text where we multi-quote everything that seems out of place. Excuse me for liking to take things slow.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

I'm sorry, but the bolded just plain ticks me off.

So you're telling me that just because some players have reads after within 24 hours that my saying that I don't feel like I could get strong enough reads in the allotted time is proof positive that I had an agenda to set? Seriously?!?

My personal playstyle is one where I like to sit and watch the direction of conversation over the course of days, not walls of text where we multi-quote everything that seems out of place. Excuse me for liking to take things slow.

nah, it just reads 'excusey' to me. dont take that part as the emphasis. that part was more of a thing that 'ticks me off' cuz it sounds like it was an excuse to be nebulous. which you totes was in D1. there was a good post that captured every post that you did in D1 and they were mostly .... nothing.

but as to why im voting for you right now: i don't like how you and hyper set yourselves up against each other in that last leg of D1.

 

[SkyOdin]

Okay, I come back to a pile of accusations and votes on my head. To be honest I am not surprised after how Hyper flipped and the way I justified my vote. However, because of how many people are quoting me and asking me questions, please allow me to address the accusations in a general sense rather than one by one. It would turn into a mess if I tried to quote it all.

Now, on the first order of business: I was wrong. That's the key thrust of my defense; I misread Hyper and L_P.

In large part, I simply got overwhelmed by the speed of the thread in the last two hours of the day. Most of the main drive against Hyper happened in those two hours, and those two hours made up half of the posts from Day 1. I simply lost track of who had said what when. When it was coming down to the wire and I had to make my vote, I was desperately using the search function to find posts made by the four people who were tied towards the end there. I ended up rereading Hyper's posts, but I read them in a vacuum divorced from a lot of the context of the rest of the thread. I think I mentally mixed up Hyperactivity and Ty4on a little bit. So, I made a mistake. I am sorry.

When I reread the thread in detail during the Night phase, I could see a lot more clearly where Kawl was coming from. Reading the thread at a more leisurely pace helped me get my thoughts much more in order.

However, I have to dispute the narrative that I was "throwing shade at Kawl's plan". I was initially confused about the plan, but I would consider myself one of its biggest proponents in the thread. Hell, I helped resolve and address other people's concerns about the peek plan. For example, i helped solve Stanley's worries about the plan. I did have some reservations about the plan, but I figured that if we were going to do it, we might as well do it well. Hell, I had two minutes to post when the game started before i ahd to rush out the door, and I made sure to follow through on the plan as we agreed, even though Kawl had apparently decided it was pointless. Obviously it is not pointless, since we still might have a cop! We might even have two more! No need to give up hope on that front just yet.

On that note, I find it suspicious that there has been such a dedicated push being made for me when I said up front that I couldn't post for a few hours. That was a good time to put pressure on people who could actually respond and provide answers, but instead it feels like someone has been trying to snowball a case against me when I couldn't properly defend myself.

I had been reading cabot and Sophia as mostly town after my reread last night, but I did have a few reservations about their alignment because I thought there were some oddities in their focus and read-lists. Now I am getting more suspicious that one or the other is scum.

In any event, I rescind any previous comment about melon being anything less than scummy. After some review, melon has definitely been acting scummy. I think splinter is also on my current top scum list.

On the other hand, i can't imagine a scenario where a scum is the most active player in the game, puts forward an unfamiliar but solid town defense plan, and aggressively busses a fellow scum all on day one. That would be a BOLD scum gambit. So I think I will discard some of my initial reservations about Kawl and accept him as our town overlord. At least until MYLO.

 

[Ty4on]

Tired, just before sleep thoughts:

-I could see scum killing L_P hoping his flip would put pressure on those suspicious of him like melonrabbit. It's a little weird for a scum team she's on to be killing him.

-I want to really read over Sophia when I get the chance and energy. I haven't really scum read her, but she seemed a little off when she hit the stage. Felt colder and more analytical.

 

[Ty4on]

When I reread the thread in detail during the Night phase, I could see a lot more clearly where Kawl was coming from. Reading the thread at a more leisurely pace helped me get my thoughts much more in order.

Why did you read over that part when Hyper had already flipped scum?

 

[melonrabbit]

Ty,
Can I asked what prompted you to ask me this:

What do you think of Hyper? Doesn't have to be deep if you have some gut feelings.

Rereading the thread the question comes out of nowhere and you didn’t list Hyper in your scum list the prior post (#280).

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

On another note, Stanleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey, come play with us ; ___ ;

not sure why, but that made me think of this:

but with a spider. a frightening thought.

cult classics aside, morning peoples!
very surprised to see L_P was cop, honestly was thinking he was scummy, but i guess that was just him trying to keep a low profile.

im still feeling the most scum from Terra, mostly for the same reasons as yesterday.
but i do feel somewhat conflicted about this now, mostly inretrospect of yesterdays vote coming down to a thunderdome (im using this term correctly, right?) between Hyper and Terra.
it just feels weird to think that scum would alow that kinda situation to happen.
but then 1 scum was already stuck in said thunderdome, so maybe the remaning scums efforts wouldn't have been enough to prevent it, and they didnt want to try to hard and risk coming off as obvious about it?

anyone, please stop me if this is sounding completely wrong, im honestly not used to playing mafia with... you know, logic.

cannnnn youuuu DIG IT?

 

[SkyOdin]

Why did you read over that part when Hyper had already flipped scum?

To be clear, I reread the entire thread. I was hoping to find clues as to the identities of Hyper's co-conspirators.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

On the other hand, i can't imagine a scenario where a scum is the most active player in the game, puts forward an unfamiliar but solid town defense plan, and aggressively busses a fellow scum all on day one. That would be a BOLD scum gambit. So I think I will discard some of my initial reservations about Kawl and accept him as our town overlord. At least until MYLO.

dude, remember our matrix game,

thinking like this completely lost us that game.

suspect evvvvveryyyyyyyyoneeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[Ty4on]

Ty,
Can I asked what prompted you to ask me this:

Rereading the thread the question comes out of nowhere and you didn’t list Hyper in your scum list the prior post (#280).

I don't remember my exact read of Hyper, but I'm pretty sure Kawl had already been scum reading him a bit which affected me.

I felt pretty confident you were scum back then and wanted to ask you that hoping that Hyper was a scum partner or that your post would give us good info after either of you flipped.

Scum often avoids communicating with themselves so I wanted to force it.

I was generally more suspicious of Hyper than I said out loud. Thinking back the read on him was "shallow" (I didn't go through his posts in detail) so I wasn't as confident in it. I think I was especially arrogant when I made that post and thinking you were both scum.

 

[Ty4on]

"the read on him"
should say
"my read on him"

 

[SkyOdin]

dude, remember our matrix game,

thinking like this completely lost us that game.

suspect evvvvveryyyyyyyyoneeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I know! How could I forget that? I certainly don't plan on giving anyone that much credit ever again, especially in MYLO or LYLO.

 

[Kawl_USC]

dude, remember our matrix game,

thinking like this completely lost us that game.

suspect evvvvveryyyyyyyyoneeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Hey, that was a day 2 bus.

Pretty standard fare for Gafia.

Day 1 bus, new meta though.

snrk.

But a fair point.

So before I get back into the post analyzing kick, wanted to spend some time puzzling out what we are working with here given LPs flip.

A normal cop means we had at the very least 2C in the set up. Which means 7T and 6T are tossed out as impossible.

Additionally, last night we had only one kill. This means we can toss out the 5T scenario as well, as if both power roles are used up on a normal cop there is no way to prevent a kill as scum only have a goon and a godfather.

Actually that's not quite true. If the SK chooses 1 shot bullet proof and manages to draw the scum kill, and then the SKs kill goes through unimpeded then we could have a game state we are looking at now. Keep in mind the choice between bullet proof and investigation immune is an interesting one that dictates how a SK will play the game. If the SK plans to front super pro town, they will chose 1 shot BP to deter scum NK. If they plan to play a little more aloof and shady, they most likely avoid NK but are at a greater risk for a cop check. Personally I think going BP is the way better play as there are always NKs to avoid while some set ups won't even have a cop, and I think its easy to play as your town self than flirt around on the edge of scumminess.

So, for those of you so quick to write me off as 100% town, keep in mind we could very well have a neutral SK who's plan from the get go was to play as pro town as possible. I think it's safe to say I'm not scum, obviously I know I'm not the SK, but from yall's point of view, I'd probably wait until tonight and see if there is a 2 kill day tomorrow before giving me a complete clean bill of health. Just from a healthy dose of paranoia, ya know? (Okay, self analysis complete).

Note to scum: If you tried to kill someone last night and your team consist of Goon + Godfather and it failed, feel free to target that same person tonight. They are the 1 shot BP SK, so do us all a favor and take them out.

Disregarding that quick side discussion, I feel like we are pretty firmly in the 4T to 0T set up range.

Normalizing the new odds from there, we are left with 35% chance to be in 4T and 3T, 21% chance to be in 2T, 7% chance to be in 1T, and 1% chance to be in 0T.

This also means we are definitely dealing with a 3 member scum team, which is good to know when looking at posts. There are still two scum out there working together and communicating. Unless they are on separate sides of the globe in which case ; ;

If you don't think scum targeted LP, then a doctor is involved in the game and they blocked a kill last night, and the game is almost certainly a 3T set up with a normal doctor. That leaves us with an additional power role out and about that is either a one shot cop, a one shot doc, or a one shot vig (can't be a single M as that would have been an innocent child revealed to us all).

If you think a scum targeted LP last night, then our other power roles could be anything but its a pretty good bet that a SK isn't involved in the game and that a normal vig isn't involved in the game. That points to either a 4T or 2T set up with 1 and 3 unknown town PR roles. If you are another full doc, a pair of masons, or hell another full cop then you are in pretty good shape to know the full extent of the set up at this point.

But any how this post is mostly rambling nonsense. I'll get to actually iso'ing some more people now.

 

[batsnacks]

DAY 2 VOTES:

skyodin (2)
cabot 468
sophia 512

terrabyte20xx (1)
yesnononoyes 528

DAY 2 WILL END:

IMPORTANT POSTS:
OP
D1 Start
D1 Final Vote Count / Flip
D2 Start

 

[SkyOdin]

That last bit about sky putting melon and hyper in the same box jumped out at me when Sophia quotes that post above. I find sky suspicious, but would be hard pressed to say both him and melon are scum. Have to look at the other posts and activity at the time. It could be a first time scum member over doing it when teammates weren't around.

Oh, I missed this comment earlier. The explanation for this is easy: I was the only real vote on you at the time. The other vote belonged to kristoffer, who had already been replaced by Sophia. His vote obviously didn't count. At least, it would have been really strange if it did count.

I just figured that getting involved in the main discussion between practical lynch candidates to be more fruitful than keeping a vote on a non-factor.

 

[SkyOdin]

Dammit, I quoted the wrong post. I meant to quote cabot's post right next to that one.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Dammit, I quoted the wrong post. I meant to quote cabot's post right next to that one.

Hey, when you are quoting something here to copy and paste to the scum chat, it's easy to mess up.

No worries man.

 

[SkyOdin]

Hey, when you are quoting something here to copy and paste to the scum chat, it's easy to mess up.

No worries man.

I presume you are speaking from experience? You would know more about posting in scum chat than me.