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MLB '12-'13 OffSeason OT: Magic is the New Market Inefficiency

F

Friggz

Member
Avon Barksdale said:
Maddux and Glavine will be the only guys who get in on their first try. The Big Hurt may have to wait a few more years.
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thomas should be in the 90% tier on the first ballot, he was the second best player in the 90s.

If people are pissed schilling and biggio didnt make it their first time on the ballot, they should stop watching baseball if thomas doesnt walk in.
 
F

Friggz

Member
Its a shame that the voters decided to make the hall of fame about them instead of the players. Considering the bonds, clemens or piazza never failed a drug test and never broke any rules of the game (unlike rose)

I dont see why voters need to take it into their own hand to make those assumptions or accusations. This is a sad day for baseball and the most prestigious HOF in sports.
 
T

Talon

Member
Friggz said:
Its a shame that the voters decided to make the hall of fame about them instead of the players. Considering the bonds, clemens or piazza never failed a drug test and never broke any rules of the game (unlike rose)

I dont see why voters need to take it into their own hand to make those assumptions or accusations. This is a sad day for baseball and the most prestigious HOF in sports.
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:jnc
 
F

Friggz

Member
Blearth said:
Big Hurt? How did he get so big? Probably roids.

*Leaves Thomas off ballot*
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i cant wait to hear that one next year.

Thomas and griffey were/are my favorite players growing up and i fully intended to take my daughter to their induction ceremony to see the speeches. Now its not even a given as it should have been years ago.
 
BFIB

BFIB

Member
"I once saw Griffey get a flu shot. But it was probably HGH. Just a guess."

*checks name off ballot*

Hey, it almost sounds like us in MLB-GAF are on the same level as the BBWA.
 
Blackace

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I really think Griffey did not use roids... because the dude never did anything to make himself better..
 
T

TangoAlphaLima

Member
Griffey has to be clean, right? He never looked "jacked" like some of his contemporaries. I can't recall hearing any 'roid speculation about him either.
 
G

GitarooMan

Member
Friggz said:
Its a shame that the voters decided to make the hall of fame about them instead of the players. Considering the bonds, clemens or piazza never failed a drug test and never broke any rules of the game (unlike rose)

I dont see why voters need to take it into their own hand to make those assumptions or accusations. This is a sad day for baseball and the most prestigious HOF in sports.
Click to expand...
If Bonds and Clemens never broke any rules, why were they so secretive about their roiding? Should have just put it out there for everyone to see. Also, the never failed a drug test reminds me of the Lance supporters. There is plenty of evidence on both of them.
 
N

not psycho

Member
TangoAlphaLima said:
Griffey has to be clean, right? He never looked "jacked" like some of his contemporaries. I can't recall hearing any 'roid speculation about him either.
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That's the thing though, the media constantly gives a false impression that it's the big guys using PEDs.

In fact, small dudes like Neifi Perez and tons of smaller pitchers were using. You can't tell at all by looking. Maddux could have been using just going by looks.
 
T

TangoAlphaLima

Member
not psycho said:
That's the thing though, the media constantly gives a false impression that it's the big guys using PEDs.

In fact, small dudes like Neifi Perez and tons of smaller pitchers were using. You can't tell at all by looking. Maddux could have been using just going by looks.
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Sure, anyone could have been using, but if there's no rumors of it, and no objective criteria to go by (such as a guy suddenly ballooning to "jacked" status, a la Barry Bonds post-1998), then what do we do? Assume everyone used? Nobody gets in the HOF in the 1st ballot anymore?

I'm going to assume innocent until proven guilty, and there's nothing to suggest that Griffey was using.
 
E

evil solrac v3.0

Member
TangoAlphaLima said:
Griffey has to be clean, right? He never looked "jacked" like some of his contemporaries. I can't recall hearing any 'roid speculation about him either.
Click to expand...

but guys don't have to look "jacked" that's why baseball writers should not try to pass themselves off as experts.

Joe Shlabotnik said:
Sounds like someone was just watching him complain how egghead sabremetricians screwed Jack Morris by focusing on ERA instead of wins.
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......yeah.... dumb idea I know....
 
Blackace

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
TangoAlphaLima said:
Sure, anyone could have been using, but if there's no rumors of it, and no objective criteria to go by (such as a guy suddenly ballooning to "jacked" status, a la Barry Bonds post-1998), then what do we do? Assume everyone used? Nobody gets in the HOF in the 1st ballot anymore?

I'm going to assume innocent until proven guilty, and there's nothing to suggest that Griffey was using.
Click to expand...

Actually Barry's size progression looked fairly normal until his last two years in baseball
 
F

Friggz

Member
GitarooMan said:
If Bonds and Clemens never broke any rules, why were they so secretive about their roiding? Should have just put it out there for everyone to see. Also, the never failed a drug test reminds me of the Lance supporters. There is plenty of evidence on both of them.
Click to expand...

there was a witch hunt out for the both of them, do you think it would matter what they said to try to clear their name? people had their minds made up already. Piazza and Bagwell were never even invesitgated and didnt make the HOF becuase of an association and were convicted without proof. Wouldnt that make everyone that played during the steroid era guilty by association? You going to leave Jeter out? Mariano out? etc.



As I said above this is one of the days to celebrate the greats that played the game, and the writers fucked it up.
 
T

TangoAlphaLima

Member
Blackace said:
Actually Barry's size progression looked fairly normal until his last two years in baseball
Click to expand...

I don't know what years these represent, but I don't believe Bonds suddenly looked huge in his last 2 seasons. It was around the turn of the century that Bonds became noticeably bigger.

bondsbeforeandaftersteroids.jpg
 
N

not psycho

Member
TangoAlphaLima said:
Sure, anyone could have been using, but if there's no rumors of it, and no objective criteria to go by (such as a guy suddenly ballooning to "jacked" status, a la Barry Bonds post-1998), then what do we do? Assume everyone used? Nobody gets in the HOF in the 1st ballot anymore?
Click to expand...


Personally I would put everyone in whose performance merits it, and treat the hall of fame like a museum where the exhibit can explain the circumstances. I can understand keeping out known (by testing or admission) users though.

What I can't agree with in the least is keeping out guys without objective evidence, seemingly based on how they fit a false stereotype of PED users. Everyone says Maddux is getting in. Jeter would probably get in. But Maddux and Jeter could be PED users just like Piazza could be. Just because Piazza hit more home runs and was bigger says nothing, because tons of small guys and pitchers were using. That just doesn't fit the stereotype.
 
E

evil solrac v3.0

Member
LOL, they just destroyed the case for jack Morris. Mickey Lolich better post=season
OH MY FUCK SHUT THE FUCK up mitch williams shuuuut the fuuuck uuuup!!!!!!
 
Blackace

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
TangoAlphaLima said:
I don't know what years these represent, but I don't believe Bonds suddenly looked huge in his last 2 seasons. It was around the turn of the century that Bonds became noticeably bigger.

bondsbeforeandaftersteroids.jpg
Click to expand...

He was bigger but his last two years he was monstrous

The SF pic is from that time
 
R

RBH

Member
After trading Denard Span and Ben Revere, the Twins don't intend to trade Justin Morneau this offseason, as it would create a big hole offensively for the club.

But the club could look to deal Morneau before the July 31 non-waiver Trade Deadline, especially if he returns to form and the Twins are out of contention.

Minnesota is expecting big things from Morneau, considering he is finally healthy and going through a normal offseason for the first time in three years. He's even on track to play for Team Canada in the World Baseball Classic this spring.

The big question is what the Twins would get in return for Morneau because he's in the last year of a six-year, $80 million deal signed in '08 and has had trouble staying healthy in recent years.
Click to expand...
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp...5686&vkey=news_min&c_id=min&partnerId=rss_min
 
G

GitarooMan

Member
Mr. Enigma said:
Jeff Bagwell started talking some shit about the writers for not electing Roger Clemens.

Jeff is salty.
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Bagwell, while not directly admitting roid use has always been super supportive of them and other roiders. He was big into bodybuilding too. Take from that what you will.
 
G

GitarooMan

Member
CygnusXS said:
"Absolutely nothing? OK, I will!
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the point is not that Bagwell necessarily used (no direct evidence i think he should be in the HOF unless further evidence arises) but that its not surprising he'd support douchebags like Clemens because he's made it clear that he is of the belief that roids and HGH weren't a big deal.
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
GitarooMan said:
the point is not that Bagwell necessarily used (no direct evidence i think he should be in the HOF unless further evidence arises) but that its not surprising he'd support douchebags like Clemens because he's made it clear that he is of the belief that roids and HGH weren't a big deal.
Click to expand...

He was also a former teammate of Clemens. That's where it comes from. Also, remember Bagwell was drafted by the Red Sox and played his first season with them while Clemens was still there. They go a long way.
 
A

Avon Barksdale

Member
Friggz said:
thomas should be in the 90% tier on the first ballot, he was the second best player in the 90s.

If people are pissed schilling and biggio didnt make it their first time on the ballot, they should stop watching baseball if thomas doesnt walk in.
Click to expand...

I think Frank should on the first ballot, but you never know with these writers...
 
E

evil solrac v3.0

Member
GitarooMan said:
Bagwell, while not directly admitting roid use has always been super supportive of them and other roiders. He was big into bodybuilding too. Take from that what you will.
Click to expand...

I take it that he was his teammate and saw him play.

GitarooMan said:
the point is not that Bagwell necessarily used (no direct evidence i think he should be in the HOF unless further evidence arises) but that its not surprising he'd support douchebags like Clemens because he's made it clear that he is of the belief that roids and HGH weren't a big deal.
Click to expand...

I see you like to think like the BBWA. hearsay and witch hunts. guilt by association.

eznark said:
Really didnt see that molestor twist coming in trouble with the curve
Click to expand...

really? you ain't shitting?
 
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