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[Talon]

A huge victory for RBIs and yankeehater.

 

[yankeehater]

A huge victory for RBIs and yankeehater.

Dont forget homeruns and batting average as well.

 

[HarryDemeanor]

Even his own teammates don't like him.

 

[The Frankman]

Trout hit the ball better than the only triple crown winner we have had since the 60s?

Nope. Not buying it

Every past Triple Crown winner led in WAR except Cabrera.

This vote is HILARIOUSLY bad.

 

[Blackace]

Every past Triple Crown winner led in WAR except Cabrera.

This vote is HILARIOUSLY bad.

WAR is like PER 36 in basketball not really good grounds to say that Trout hit the ball better than Migs

 

[Brinbe]

smfh... Trout robbed

 

[Little Green Yoda]

If you look beyond TC stats, Trout's batting prowess approximates that of Cabrera's. But Trout annihilates Miggy in defense and baserunning so it's a farce that Cabrera ran away with the MVP.

 

[beast786]

I don't even understand how this happened.

You think old fart writers would appreciate the guy who has the best defense in the league at a premium position and went 49 for 54 in stolen bases over the fat tub of lard who is slower than molasses but I guess not.

I blame Josh Hamilton for not managing to hit 2 more home runs this year allowing this travesty to take place.

Trout's season was an all-time historic season. I don't understand how this happened.

He didn't hit the ball as well as Mike Trout.

Not even taking into account any other part of the game, Miguel Cabrera was not as good with the stick as Mike Trout.

Miggy had a great season and is a great player but there was no question at all who the MVP should have been.

Even more egregious than the idea Cabrera should have won it because he won the triple crown is the notion the Tigers made the playoffs and the Angels didn't so he deserved it. It makes no sense. The Angels had more wins than the Tigers. Is Trout supposed to control what division he hits in?

 

[The Frankman]

WAR is like PER 36 in basketball not really good grounds to say that Trout hit the ball better than Migs

Baseball saber stats >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basketball saber stats. It's not even close.

Mike Trout had a much more historic season than Miggy. Winning a Triple Crown is more due to outside factors, just like the whole "Well Miggy's team made the playoffs!" spin. Yes the Tigers did, but they also won less games than the Angels.

 

[Blackace]

Baseball saber stats >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basketball saber stats. It's not even close.

Mike Trout had a much more historic season than Miggy. Winning a Triple Crown is more due to outside factors, just like the whole "Well Miggy's team made the playoffs!" spin. Yes the Tigers did, but they also won less games than the Angels.

Whenever there is not a clear way to measure WAR then the baseball saber better than the basketball saber is moot...

 

[CygnusXS]

Glad I don't give a shit about baseball awards anymore.

 

[darkside31337]

Glad I don't give a shit about baseball awards anymore.

Yeah I'm done caring now. This was the biggest sham vote result I've seen since the 2000 election.

 

[The Frankman]

Whenever there is not a clear way to measure WAR then the baseball saber better than the basketball saber is moot...

I think it's very relevant. Writers (old people) saw this "woo git dat hippie shit outta here Miggy hit homers he's a BASEBALL PLAYA" and focused on HR/RBI/BA because it's been around since the damn of time. However, there are much better ways to determine player value, and the writers are being a bunch of Jeff Francoeurs.

 

[hemtae]

I can't really see any stats that say Trout hit the ball better than Cabrera.

He was the better overall player last season though.

 

[Blackace]

I think it's very relevant. Writers (old people) saw this "woo git dat hippie shit outta here Miggy hit homers he's a BASEBALL PLAYA" and focused on HR/RBI/BA because it's been around since the damn of time. However, there are much better ways to determine player value, and the writers are being a bunch of Jeff Francoeurs.

HR RBI BA is a very solid way to see how well a player is hitting the ball.. Just because his fielding factors against his WAR in most cases, but Miggy is a beast at the plate.

I can't really see any stats that say Trout hit the ball better than Cabrera.

He was the better overall player last season though.

I can ride with this

 

[The Frankman]

I can't really see any stats that say Trout hit the ball better than Cabrera.

He was the better overall player last season though.

He was more value IMHO to his team this year and did more. If Cabrera was around average defensively it would be different, but unless I missed something he'll still nowhere close to being decent at 3rd. Go look at the Angels the first month of the year sans Trout, no better indication of a guy who changed everything for a team that that.

MVP is not best hitter, that's Silver Slugger. Trout was more valuable over the course of the year than Cabrera for their respective teams.

Despite that, the voting was a landslide for Cabrera? GTFO here BBWAA. I'm done with this.

 

[Windu]

both trout and cabrera were tied for first in the majors in wRC+ at 166. that is all i'll say about this stuff, i'm tired of arguing with idiots.

 

[rando14]

Congrats to Posey and Cabrera.

 

[hemtae]

He was more value IMHO to his team this year and did more. If Cabrera was around average defensively it would be different, but unless I missed something he'll still nowhere close to being decent at 3rd. Go loos at the Angels the first month of the year sans Trout, no better indication of a guy who changed everything for a team that that.

MVP is not best hitter, that's Silver Slugger. Trout was more valuable over the course of the year than Cabrera for their respective teams.

Everything you said is right but I think we're arguing over darkside's claim that Trout was the better hitter, not that he didn't deserve to win the MVP.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

HR RBI BA is a very solid way to see how well a player is hitting the ball.. Just because his fielding factors against his WAR in most cases, but Miggy is a beast at the plate.

It's funny because 2011 Miguel hit the ball better than 2012 Miguel. But because 2012 Miguel won a title based on leading the AL in arbitrary stats, he wins the MVP based on his bat but 2011 Miguel did not.

Again, Trout's offense was roughly the same as Miggy's. Cabrera's edge in BA is countered by Trout's edge in OBP. Miggy's advantage in power numbers is mitigated if you look at park factors. Add it all up and the batting performances are a virtual tie. Meanwhile, defense/baserunning is a heavy plus in Trout's favor.

FG is showing a 2 win difference in defense alone. That's huge. And that's before you consider the fact that Trout plays a more demanding defensive position.

 

[The Frankman]

Everything you said is right but I think we're arguing over darkside's claim that Trout was the better hitter, not that he didn't deserve to win the MVP.

bleh. Well that'll be another argument for another day. Not touching that one. But I do know alot of the eye number stats Miggy won when quantified Trout either matches/comes damn close.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

 

[Little Green Yoda]

The guy who left Yadi off the ballot and gave Allen Craig a 7th place vote is an idiot. Voting for Holliday ahead of Yadi is more defensible but still incorrect.

 

[CygnusXS]

Heyward 5th most valuable Brave? This is why BBWAA awards don't matter.

 

[weekend_warrior]

Mmmmmm, salt. Keep the bitter tears coming GAF, your salt sustains me.

Great day for baseball fans. I of course knew Miggy would win all along.

 

[beast786]

It's funny because 2011 Miguel hit the ball better than 2012 Miguel. But because 2012 Miguel won a title based on leading the AL in arbitrary stats, he wins the MVP based on his bat but 2011 Miguel did not.

Again, Trout's offense was roughly the same as Miggy's. Cabrera's edge in BA is countered by Trout's edge in OBP. Miggy's advantage in power numbers is mitigated if you look at park factors. Add it all up and the batting performances are a virtual tie. Meanwhile, defense/baserunning is a heavy plus in Trout's favor.

FG is showing a 2 win difference in defense alone. That's huge. And that's before you consider the fact that Trout plays a more demanding defensive position.

What? I need explanation for this made up statement.

you also forgot, RBI,OPS , SLG etc etc..

 

[The Frankman]

Mmmmmm, salt. Keep the bitter tears coming GAF, your salt sustains me.

Great day for baseball fans. I of course knew Miggy would win all along.

Hi.

 

[jbug617]

Something tells me Cherington is really trying to make a splash and over spend. He said today that he expects the Red Sox payroll to be one of the highest in baseball next year.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

I like that Kimbrel got more MVP votes than Dickey and Kershaw, but didn't even make Top 3 in the Cy Young.

 

[Windu]

Heyward 5th most valuable Brave? This is why BBWAA awards don't matter.

you don't even need to look at the results to know that, just look at the list of voters. Basically all newspaper writers.

 

[Whiskeymatt]

This is why there's no reason to care about BBWAA awards.

 

[weekend_warrior]

Awesome, someone gave Raul a 10th place vote!

 

[Little Green Yoda]

What? I need explanation for this made up statement.

you also forgot, RBI,OPS , SLG etc etc..

Looking at park factors, Comerica was a slight hitter's park while Angel Stadium was a significant pitcher's park. I'm sure the wRC+ numbers go into more depth by looking at the away stadiums as well - Windu already pointed out that Trout and Miguel had identical wRC+ stats.

RBIs is a nearly-worthless stat for an individual

I was referring to SLG when referring to power numbers. OPS is just the same thing since it's Miggy's SLG advantage that overshadows Trout's OBP advantage. (OBP is supposed to be more valuable than SLG, which is why OPS isn't the premier saber stat for offensive production).

 

[jman2050]

Something tells me Cherington is really trying to make a splash and over spend. He said today that he expects the Red Sox payroll to be one of the highest in baseball next year.

Who the hell is there to spend money on? Free-swinging Hamilton? Anibal Sanchez? Who else?

 

[beast786]

Looking at park factors, Comerica was a slight hitter's park while Angel Stadium was a significant pitcher's park. I'm sure the wRC+ numbers go into more depth by looking at the away stadiums as well - Windu already pointed out that Trout and Miguel had identical wRC+ stats.

RBIs is a nearly-worthless stat for an individual

I was referring to SLG when referring to power numbers. OPS is just the same thing since it's Miggy's SLG advantage that overshadows Trout's OBP advantage. (OBP is supposed to be more valuable than SLG, which is why OPS isn't the premier saber stat for offensive production).

your links is team comparison not player or the stadium. coamerica park is dimension wise bigger to same. Cabrera hrs are to right and center of coamerica. Show me a direct stat comparison of both hitting HR and the length average.

EDIT|

 

[rando14]

My favorite is how the gap between Cabrera and Trout was bigger than the gap between Trout and Beltre.

 

[cashman]

I like how Beltre got a second place vote.

 

[Enron]

Yeah I'm done caring now. This was the biggest sham vote result I've seen since the 2000 election.

I think you meant to say 2012 election.

 

[cashman]

Ehh, I think Trout needs to build up confidence before he wins the MVP award.

 

[Zep]

Guess we'll need another Felix Hernandez year to pull you guys back in...

BBWAA always gets it right.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

You want me to take that link seriously when it has coamerica park ranked higher than Yankee stadium?

Look at multiple seasons then.

2012 Comerica = slight hitters park
2012 NYS = slight pitchers park
2012 Angel Stadium = pitchers park

2011 Comerica = slight hitters park
2011 NYS = hitters park
2011 Angel Stadium = pitchers park

2010 Comerica = slight pitchers park
2010 NYS = hitters park
2010 Angel Stadium = pitchers park

2009 Comerica = slight hitters park
2009 NYS = slight pitchers park
2009 Angel Stadium = slight hitters park

2008 Comerica = slight hitters park
2008 NYS = slight hitters park
2008 Angel Stadium = slight hitters park

Comerica is rated more hitter friendly than Angels stadium in each of the past 5 seasons.

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

Feels good man, it feels good. MVPosey!

 

[Blackace]

What? I need explanation for this made up statement.

you also forgot, RBI,OPS , SLG etc etc..

That made me lol as well

 

[Blackace]

My favorite is how the gap between Cabrera and Trout was bigger than the gap between Trout and Beltre.

It's comical but you don't hear the great D argument when Beltre's name is brought up

 

[cashman]

It's comical but you don't hear the great D argument when Beltre's name is brought up

His offense wasn't on Trout or Cabrera's level and he's a worse base runner than Trout.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

B.J. Upton visited Turner Field today.

 

[Blackace]

His offense wasn't on Trout or Cabrera's level and he's a worse base runner than Trout.

I know that.. he really shouldn't have even been 3rd.

Trout will win an MVP I am sure..

 

[Windu]

B.J. Upton visited Turner Field today.

Part 1 of our bj and Justin upton outfield is almost complete.

 

[Blackace]

B.J. Upton visited Turner Field today.

I want B.J. Upton

I have loved his game for years.. Felt he never fully blossomed..

 

[Little Green Yoda]

your links is team comparison not player or the stadium. coamerica park is dimension wise bigger to same. Cabrera hrs are to right and center of coamerica. Show me a direct stat comparison of both hitting HR and the length average.

EDIT|

I don't know if this is what you're looking for but...

Trout had an average true distance of 409.6 feet on his HRs

Cabrera had an average true distance of 407.3 feet on his HRs

Miggy had a 44-30 edge on Trout in total HRs
Miggy had a 7-1 edge on Trout on "lucky" HRs
Miggy had a 16-8 edge on Trout on "just enough" HRs
Miggy had a 9-6 edge on Trout on "no doubt" HRs

I'm not sure if there was overlap and double counting on some of the lucky/JE HRs but part of Miggy's 14 HR edge was certainly aided by ballpark size. Plus this site only tracks HRs so would-be HRs that died in Angels Stadium aren't tracked.

I wish there was a way to filter home/away HRs on that site - even though Miggy wasn't a pull HR hitter, he still hit more HRs to left than HRs to center or HRs to right.