yankeehater
Member
I dont think I am super hardline but I am definitely not a saber person.
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MLB 2014-2015 Offseason |OT| Playoff Dreaming
- Thread starter chicagocubsfan
- Start date
matthewwhatever
Member
I don't understand how someone can be opposed to using numbers to understand baseball better. It's not like they haven't always been used. We've just reached a stage where you can use ones that tell you more than RBI and ERA.
I'd assume it's because they're worried that if a player bets big and loses, it opens the door to being indebted to gamblers and throwing games. It's less likely now than it was 100 years ago, but I can see the reasoning.
I'd assume it's because they're worried that if a player bets big and loses, it opens the door to being indebted to gamblers and throwing games. It's less likely now than it was 100 years ago, but I can see the reasoning.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't have a problem with sabrmetrics, I just get annoyed when people use sabrmetrics as though they're a completely accurate indicator of future performance.
yankeehater
Member
That is my problem also. People will say so and so was a negative WAR player last year so there is no possible scenario that he could improve the following year. I just dislike the way that people use the information.
Rock And Roll
Member
I agree with both of you. I feel like a bunch of people now basically ignore watching how the game is played and instead just cite sabremetrics.
It's funny how many games I've watched with friends who are pretty into sabremetrics but seem to be unable to figure out what pitch is going to be thrown next. Sabremetrics are fantastic, but you still need to watch the game.
It's funny how many games I've watched with friends who are pretty into sabremetrics but seem to be unable to figure out what pitch is going to be thrown next. Sabremetrics are fantastic, but you still need to watch the game.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Then there are people who see one graph out of context and say "stop playing the game, the computers have figured it out."
yankeehater
Member
Then there are people who see one graph out of context and say "stop playing the game, the computers have figured it out."
Touche
Members of the Yankees recreate a famous scene from The Sandlot:
http://m.mlb.com/video/v53162883/ya...=10152788292512781&adbpl=fb&adbpr=39523792780
McCann :lol
I miss him.
http://m.mlb.com/video/v53162883/ya...=10152788292512781&adbpl=fb&adbpr=39523792780
McCann :lol
I miss him.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Newly affiliated with the Astros, AAA club Fresno offering 2017 World Series ring promotion later this August:
http://www.milb.com/news/article.js...d=114621238&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_milb&sid=milb
The karmic backlash potential is great, don't be toying with the baseball gods Astros!
http://www.milb.com/news/article.js...d=114621238&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_milb&sid=milb
The karmic backlash potential is great, don't be toying with the baseball gods Astros!
Rock And Roll
Member
Honestly I don't think Harper is juicing. He's still a kid (22) so for him to put on that amount of muscle isn't completely unbelievable. He doesn't drink since he's a Mormon and he's also a health freak.
I think he just works out all of the time because he isn't allowed to have any fun.
I think he just works out all of the time because he isn't allowed to have any fun.
yankeehater
Member
Omg at the Full House night jerseys.
http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20150320&content_id=113589902&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_milb
http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20150320&content_id=113589902&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_milb
http://m.mlb.com/cutfour/2015/03/25...s-dreadlocks-for-charity-and-you-can-buy-them
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
When is Verducci not wrist-deep in washing Harper's balls?
BFIB
Member
He approached the Cards on restructuring the deal. Cardinals delined since they are not planning on offering him any extension offer before he hits FA.
Players are a lot less likely to lose big gambling than they are the awful investments their agents talk them into.
Little Green Yoda
Member
Didn't he threaten to sit out this season when he was still a Red Sox and then immediately stated he would honor the 500k contract after he was traded?
If so, why the threats to sit out the year when he was still in Boston? Probably because he wanted to force a trade?
I swear if he doesn't hit well this year it will be because of this.
Force a trade/renegotiation yeah. Also, he sort of lost all his leverage when he went to St. Louis and pitched poorly. He has to pitch this year if he wants a multiyear deal after this one.
First $400MM player.
Is it mandatory that all juicers play in pinstripes?
Little Green Yoda
Member
I can't imagine anybody giving a 37 y.o. Lackey multiple years. Which means some team will offer him $20M+ next offseason.
i have no problem with it.
Andujar for Braun
Mr. Enigma
Member
The contracts Bronson Arroyo and Tim Hudson got still baffle me.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Bonds never got a DH offer from them, non-juicer confirmed!
Also:
Forbes 2015 MLB team value rankings
That's a clown question, bro.
I was following minor league ball really closely during the moneyball era. Oakland was my home team's triple-A affiliate. They had some success so the whole saber crowd got really cocky. Now it's been further incorporated into baseball but it hasn't replaced baseball. Even so, it's a pretty big myth that scouts back then didn't know anything about sabermetrics. It's their job, so some stat geek throwing around numbers NEVER knew more than the scouts. It was the 90's, not the 30's.
That's also why scouts haven't disappeared. There are too many variables that can't be found in a stat line, particularly at the minor league developmental level. Players are trying new things. They're coming off injury or playing hurt. Of course their numbers won't look good, but the teams know the circumstances. So do the scouts.
Sabermetrics is grossly overrated.
matthewwhatever
Member
Can you actually cite examples of this? Because I have my doubts that anyone would actually say something so dumb -- that's not how WAR works at all. They might point to a player's WAR to say that he wasn't as good as he seemed (i.e. Joe Carter/Ruben Sierra-type players who racked up RBIs but didn't do much else, or guys whose defensive contributions were so bad they negate whatever they might do with the bat -- i.e. Matt Kemp/Adam Dunn), but no one who knows what they're talking about is going to say that because a player's WAR was terrible one year, it's guaranteed to be terrible the next. They'd point to the underlying reasons, like lucky/unlucky BABIP, or drops in velocity, or really bad contact rates...numbers with actual predictive value. WAR isn't predictive.
I'm still annoyed Mike Trout went for the guaranteed payday. I wanted him to reach free agency and break the bank.
Little Green Yoda
Member
I have an inkling his example centers around Ryan Howard and aging curves.
If sabermetrics is overrated what would you call more traditional stats such as ERA, wins, AVG?
Look nerd the only stats that matter are jawline and dick size.
Fantasy stats? What are you expecting me to say?
Best breakdown so far of Gordon's chances of making it home.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/12485525/mlb-penultimate-play
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/12485525/mlb-penultimate-play
Dmncnby2k9
Banned
dont forget #hair
Little Green Yoda
Member
The purpose of sabrmetrics isn't to replace scouting. It's supposed to provide a more refined alternative to the traditional stats.
yankeehater
Member
You totally beat me to it. I understand that Howard totally sucks now, and that isnt going to change. It just seems weird to me to say he is going to suck this year because of "numbers".
No. He didn't. It's just realistic to think that mostly all of the 30 ballclubs would throw $2-4M at him if he pulled a minor holdout.
35 is a number
Dominican Power
Member
Red Sox lineup is stacked as fuck.
There's no problem with sabermetrics as a method for evaluating baseball players and what happens on the field. That is helpful and should be encouraged whenever possible. The real problem is terrible sites like Fangraphs that continually misuse the statistics they generate for their clickbaity narrative-driven articles written by people who don't know shit. And because of their public nature and because of herd mentality sites like that become the go-to source for anyone interested in baseball analysis in lieu of them actually attempting to learn how these statistics work and draw their own conclusions.
I guess it wouldn't be as bad if it were just fans or media types who are guided into this type of tunnel vision by my understanding is that even those inside of baseball operations are affected in this way.
I guess it wouldn't be as bad if it were just fans or media types who are guided into this type of tunnel vision by my understanding is that even those inside of baseball operations are affected in this way.
yankeehater
Member
I walked right into that.
Thanks for pointing out this book, looks intriguing. Will add it to my to-read list.
For another baseball book recommendation I'll throw out this I Don't Care if We Never Get Back: 30 Games in 30 Days on the Best Worst Baseball Road Trip Ever , I thought it was hilarious.
$/WAR should probably be retired.