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MLB 2016 Regular Season Official Thread - Do Not Attempt to Ketchup

P

Parch

Member
If the intent of the rule is to protect players, then that didn't apply in this case. That was not a take out slide. There was zero possibility of injury.

He touched the guy on the foot with his hand.

That's it. There was no possibility of injury. And there was no possibility of breaking up the double play either because the DP could not have been made. He touched the guy, and apparently this horrible act of violence is worth awarding a team an unmakeable double play, removing an earned run from the board, and giving the Jays the loss.

So now everybody knows. There doesn't have to be a dangerous take out slide, but don't even touch anybody because apparently that's a horrible crime in itself. If people are trying to justify this as protecting players, then LOL.
If this is how the rule is going to be applied, then it's no wonder people think it's a joke and an embarrassment to the game.
 
B

bonesmccoy

Banned
Jays-Gaf, be annoyed with Bautista if anything. He made a mistake that cost the Jays a chance to win the game.

Come to think of it, away from the plate Bautista hasn't had a stellar series. I can't help but think this is related to his claim that despite his age, he's better than ever. Might also explain his idiotic postgame comments too.

Frozenprince said:
And even then, this is very, very important.

THEY DID NOT CREATE A NEW RULE, THEY ARE SIMPLY TELLING UMPS TO ACTUALLY START ENFORCING THE RULE THAT'S BEEN ON THE BOOKS FOR ALMOST 3 DECADES NOW.
Click to expand...

+1

Here's a similar situation. Bautista didn't make as much contact but the intent was the same as Sandoval's:

http://m.mlb.com/video/?content_id=22703765&c_id=mlb
 
C

Caja 117

Member
There was not intent to injure the player, but Bautista went out of his way to try and grab the 2b ankle, so yeah, good call.

Parch said:
If the intent of the rule is to protect players, then that didn't apply in this case. That was not a take out slide. There was zero possibility of injury.

He touched the guy on the foot with his hand.

That's it. There was no possibility of injury. And there was no possibility of breaking up the double play either because the DP could not have been made. He touched the guy, and apparently this horrible act of violence is worth awarding a team an unmakeable double play, removing an earned run from the board, and giving the Jays the loss.

So now everybody knows. There doesn't have to be a dangerous take out slide, but don't even touch anybody because apparently that's a horrible crime in itself. If people are trying to justify this as protecting players, then LOL.
If this is how the rule is going to be applied, then it's no wonder people think it's a joke and an embarrassment to the game.
Click to expand...

Bautista tried to grab his ankle on purpose, even if this didn't help to disrupt the DP, he still did something wrong.
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
TheNintendoBox said:
if it happened if to your team you would be pissed off too,pretending you wouldn't is just lying to yourself
Click to expand...

Bautista did something stupid in the spur of the moment, and violated a rule he should've known. Personally, as a Jays fan, I'm way more embarrassed by bandwagoners who whine about the wussification of sports (to say nothing of Gibbons' idiotic post-game statement).
 
L

LevelNth

Banned
CygnusXS said:
It has everything to do with gender, actually. You should do some reading on how masculinity is constructed and performed.
Click to expand...
Oh so physicality in sport is now misogynistic? So female athletes are incapable of physicality in sport?

Yea I'm sure that probably sounded better to you in the condescending and sanctimonious tone you expressed it in.
 
S

Silver Arrows

Banned
matthewwhatever said:
Bautista did something stupid in the spur of the moment, and violated a rule he should've known. Personally, as a Jays fan, I'm way more embarrassed by bandwagoners who whine about the wussification of sports (to say nothing of Gibbons' idiotic post-game statement).
Click to expand...

Welcome to what we'll be experiencing in this thread for the next three months. And if the Jays don't suck by mid-June, all season.
 
Z

zroid

Banned
Mr. Enigma said:
A-Rod was called out back in ALDS 2004 for grabbing Bronson Arroyo's glove and knocking the ball loose while he was running. That was without replay. Bautista clearly grabbed Forsythe's foot. He didn't even argue it. The only ones crying about this are homer Jays fans who are way too biased.

For me, this isn't so much the Utley Rule as it is the runner intentionally fucking with the fielder.

If this happened to the Braves, I'd agree with it too. But hopefully none of their players are dumb enough to grab a fucking fielder's foot.
Click to expand...

Apparently from what I heard from the beat reporters, the umps actually did apply the Utley rules, it was specifically how he didn't make a "bona fide slide" because he overslid the bag.

There's probably a good case to make that it was also interference and it should've been called dead even under the old rules but the language is so loose and rarely enforced. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


edit: I'm just reading Ken Rosenthal's article on this and he's writing that the umps said he broke both the old rule AND the Utley rule. :lol

I guess that's that!

That reach by Bautista, which "hindered and impeded the fielder" in the view of the replay official, had nothing to do with the Utley rule. It was a violation of a previous rule, 6.01(a)(6), which states:

"If, in the judgment of the umpire, a base runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead.

"The umpire shall call the runner out for interference and also call out the batter-runner because of the action of his teammate. In no event may bases be run or runs scored because of such action by a runner."

Bingo.


Yet, the replay official did not stop there, saying in a statement, "Additionally, (Bautista) did not engage in a bona fide slide as he did not attempt to remain on the base."

That's the Utley rule, which established a four-point criteria for sliding into second.

A bona fide slide occurs when the runner:

*Begins his slide (i.e. makes contact with the ground) before reaching the base;

*Is able and attempts to reach the base with his hand or foot;

*Is able and attempts to remain on the base (except home plate) after completion of the slide; and

*Slides within reach of the base without changing his pathway for the purpose of initiating contact with a fielder.

Bautista went 3 for 4, committing his violation when he slid past the bag.
Click to expand...
 
B

Beckx

Member
LybNrOZ.jpg
 
T

Tragicomedy

Member
zroid said:
edit: I'm just reading Ken Rosenthal's article on this and he's writing that the umps said he broke both the old rule AND the Utley rule. :lol

I guess that's that!
Click to expand...

That's what I posted last night. If they just applied the new rule, one run would have scored and EE would be safe at first. The Jays would have runners at the corners with two outs.

Instead, NY concluded that Bautista also interfered with the play by grabbing the fielder's leg, thus making EE out as the batter. Which he clearly did.

In conclusion, Bautista done goofed.
 
X

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
I'm guessing SF sits down a few starters today as usual per their usual day game after night game MO.

Also, friggin El Nino wonkiness:

kTSB5LO.png
 
B

Beckx

Member
Bucs have won six straight extra inning games against the Cardinals after yesterday.

Nicasio start tonight. If Niese had to be the pitcher he was in Spring then maybe Nicasio will be too!

Cole finally joins the team on Saturday.
 
B

BumRush

Member
Parch said:
If the intent of the rule is to protect players, then that didn't apply in this case. That was not a take out slide. There was zero possibility of injury.

He touched the guy on the foot with his hand.

That's it. There was no possibility of injury. And there was no possibility of breaking up the double play either because the DP could not have been made. He touched the guy, and apparently this horrible act of violence is worth awarding a team an unmakeable double play, removing an earned run from the board, and giving the Jays the loss.

So now everybody knows. There doesn't have to be a dangerous take out slide, but don't even touch anybody because apparently that's a horrible crime in itself. If people are trying to justify this as protecting players, then LOL.
If this is how the rule is going to be applied, then it's no wonder people think it's a joke and an embarrassment to the game.
Click to expand...

Your posts on this show that you don't understand the point (or the rule). We all know Bautista wasn't trying to injure someone...but you just can't go grabbing a fielder's ankle. I'm not sure why you're so adamant about this one.

Rule 6.01 (j) said:
Under the new Rule 6.01(j), a runner will have to make a "bona fide slide," which is defined as making contact with the ground before reaching the base, being able to and attempting to reach the base with a hand or foot, being able to and attempting to remain on the base at the completion of the slide (except at home plate) and not changing his path for the purpose of initiating contact with a fielder.
Click to expand...
 
P

Parch

Member
BumRush said:
Your posts on this show that you don't understand the point (or the rule). We all know Bautista wasn't trying to injure someone...but you just can't go grabbing a fielder's ankle. I'm not sure why you're so adamant about this one.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying Batista didn't break the rule. I'm saying the rule is incredibly stupid and an embarrassment to the game.
 
C

CosmicQueso

Member
Parch said:
Do you think what Batista did was violent?
Click to expand...

Way to miss the point.

Parch said:
I'm not saying Batista didn't break the rule. I'm saying the rule is incredibly stupid and an embarrassment to the game.
Click to expand...

The rule could certainly use some adjustment, seeing as how twice in two days there have been controversial plays because of it. But am embarrassment to the game? Dunno about that.
 
B

BumRush

Member
Parch said:
I'm not saying Batista didn't break the rule. I'm saying the rule is incredibly stupid and an embarrassment to the game.
Click to expand...

I think a rule that restricts you from going out of your way to make contact with a player is a good start. What point did Bats have in touching him? What does that do for the game of baseball?
 
Z

zroid

Banned
The rule is fine, players are just going to need time to adjust. It's unfortunate this happened at such a crucial time in the game, but that's just how it goes.
 
B

Beckx

Member
Parch said:
I'm not saying Batista didn't break the rule. I'm saying the rule is incredibly stupid and an embarrassment to the game.
Click to expand...

somehow high school and college baseball has survived the embarrassment of having a force play slide rule. MLB will be okay. the sky is not falling. it survived the catcher rule enforcement. it will survive this.
 
C

Caja 117

Member
Parch said:
I'm not saying Batista didn't break the rule. I'm saying the rule is incredibly stupid and an embarrassment to the game.
Click to expand...

Stiupid? This is not a contact sports, players shouldn't be using their arms to try an grab the opposing team player. this is very similar to the Arod/Arroyo call.
 
S

Silver Arrows

Banned
Double post, but I assumed that the problem was with Bautista sliding with violent intent. Instead, it was him grabbing the fielder's ankle. In that end, I believe he is indeed in the wrong.

And "us against the world" mentality of some Jays fans in here is quite disheartning. Then again, I shouldn't be surprised considering how ornery some of the bandwagon jumpers are considering their preferred NHL team sucks varying degrees of ass.
 
P

Parch

Member
CosmicQueso said:
Way to miss the point.
Click to expand...
Your point was posting a pic of a violent hockey check. What does that have to do with what Batista did?

It's happened twice and now everybody knows. Don't even dare to put a finger on a fielder because it's a terrible crime now. Fine. The players will adjust. They kinda have to regardless of how ridiculously the rule is applied.
 
B

Beckx

Member
so yesterday's Mariners/Rangers game was the first MLB game to have two Korean position players start for each team.
 
P

Parch

Member
If the intent of the rule is to protect fielders from take out slides, then it should actually involve a take out slide. Forsythe said he never even felt Batista touch him.

We'll see how this goes, but I can see fielders planting themselves in front of the bag in hopes that they'll get the call that the baserunner initiated contact. Fielders won't even try to get out of the way now and it could actually result in more injuries because of that.

Whatever. New game. Moving on.
Carrera and Barney are getting starts today. Seems a little early to start giving regulars a rest. Hopefully Happ can get in a groove and put together a decent season. He doesn't have to have a QS every game, he just needs to keep it close enough to give the offense a chance. That's pretty much the plan for every Jay starter.
 
B

Beckx

Member
Parch said:
I can see fielders planting themselves in front of the bag in hopes that they'll get the call that the baserunner initiated contact.
Click to expand...

nope. baseline belongs to the runner. fielders have to give the runner a path to the bag. otherwise it's obstruction.
 
T

Tragicomedy

Member
Parch said:
I'm not saying Batista didn't break the rule. I'm saying the rule is incredibly stupid and an embarrassment to the game.
Click to expand...

Embarrassment to the game? LOL.

Sure thing. They've taken the masculinity right out of this tough guy sport. Maybe the Jays should come out wearing dresses! Gibbons was right.
 
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