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[cuevas. PhD.]

Serious question: how is having the only evidence against you be ruled tainted and inadmissible a technicality? That's due process.

It was ruled inadmissable because of a technicality.

 

[eznark]

Such a weak ass defense. He's innocent as much as Floyd was, or OJ on a more serious case. He squeaked by on a technicality and not due to any possible defense that would determine his innocence. He might play but he's still guilty in my eyes.

Oh and Ez just admit you'd sing a different tune if he wasn't playing on your favorite team. Since in all other related scandals of players Ive never seen you try this kind of defense. Ie Big Ben

I woul possibly disagree with you however I'm always on the opposite side of sports "journalists" and on the side of individual liberty, so I'm confident that I would feel the same regardless of who it is.

As for Ben while I think he is a roost I don't think (and have said since the beginning) that he should have been suspended.

 

[BFIB]

He said today that he had no STDs.

We'll see when he shows up on MLB Network with a cold sore. I am sticking with my nickname for him though:

The Herpes Hammer. Because it sounds cool. And it fits this description:

In other news, Mo has stated that talks have resumed with Molina, and that a deal could be worked out anytime this week. Get it done, Mo!

 

[tc farks]

According to jsonline the man who is collected the sample Dino Laurenzi of Kenosha and he is a cubs fan.

Haha. No.

Seriously though. Is Braun's clothing line the worst thing that has ever happened to the world of clothes?

 

[Windu]

saw this on imgur, lol.

 

[weekend_warrior]

We'll see when he shows up on MLB Network with a cold sore. I am sticking with my nickname for him though:

The Herpes Hammer. Because it sounds cool. And it fits this description:

In other news, Mo has stated that talks have resumed with Molina, and that a deal could be worked out anytime this week. Get it done, Mo!

I honestly can't tell if this is Ryan Braun or Aaron Rodgers. Why do all white people look the same?

 

[BFIB]

One has Herpes. One does not.

That's how you tell the difference.

 

[eznark]

Like the majority of pro athletes, I'm guessing they both have herpes.

 

[BFIB]

eznark,

Has Uecker been on any local radio today? I'm always eager to hear his thoughts on matters like this.

His stuff with McGwire after his PED use admission was great.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

"I don't have any STDs" is the new "I'm not gay"

 

[CajoleJuice]

"I don't have any STDs" is the new "I'm not gay"

YES

 

[eznark]

http://www.chadmoriyama.com/2012/02/ryan-braun-what-you-dont-know-about-his-case-is-important/

I have no idea who this guy is but he writes a pretty good piece that brings up the fact that every major sports "journalist" besides Will Carroll is ignoring: Ryan Braun's defense was able to repeat the positive drug test using the errors of the handler.

Carroll’s information is not only relevant, but it’s monumentally important to the argument people are having over whether Braun case was overturned because of the chain of custody or because of doubts involving the actual sample. Carroll’s sources explain quite explicitly that their failure to keep up with the chain of custody caused a failure in the integrity of the sample. Then, not only was the sample’s validity questionable, but they were able to replicate the results and show how it happened. Thus, not only was it a failure in the process, but in the results as well.

In essence, this would break the case of anybody left moralizing, which is a reason I find it curious that nobody wants to run it. For Carroll’s part, he says Fox Sports isn’t silencing him, he was just beaten to the punch, but I preferred his insight over the article by David Epstein and Joe Lemire that actually was run.

Why does nobody want to talk about this? It’s beyond me.

Furthermore, Munson reports that Braun offered his DNA to check whether the urine was actually his, but was refused, suggesting that there were further questions about the legitimacy of the sample.

If we accept those two pieces of information as true (which I have no reason to doubt), it’s a bit of a no-brainer for the arbitrator, in my opinion. Not only could Braun have potentially won solely on the grounds that the entire methodology was compromised by the handler of the sample, but additionally, the test results were duplicated by the defense, giving ample reason to suspect that the positive test was useless. Adding the fact that the MLB didn’t allow Braun to prove his innocence by checking the DNA to confirm it was his urine, and everything Das decided becomes quite clear.

Even if you don’t fully believe Carroll or Munson, because for whatever reason you think you have sources that they don’t, it’s more than enough doubt for me to not write articles that basically say Braun’s definitely still guilty.

I guess it’s just frustrating to me to see the blatant denial of logic and reason that’s thrown right in their faces, all so that they can feel okay with the assumptions they ran with after the positive test results were announced. The fervent and insistent nature of it just shocks me.

Actually, I take that back. I guess it’s par for the course now.

I was the first and most vehement despiser of Braun when the news broke. I was 100% ready to despise him and even called for his outright release should he be proven guilty. He wasn't. And he wasn't cleared on a technicality. The mishandling of his sample occurred in such a way that it was possible for it to test positive, as Braun's defense team clearly and repeatedly showed.

Is he innocent? No idea. Would any rational and sane person presented with these facts say that he is beyond a shadow of a doubt guilty? Absolutely not.

 

[vas_a_morir]

You killin' em, Ezzy.

 

[yankeeforever2]

Ok guys have fun with your Arod Jr then, you have him for the next decade

 

[vas_a_morir]

Ok guys have fun with your Arod Jr then, you have him for the next decade

Hey man, Arod brought New York their first championship this CENTURY.

 

[TheNatural]

http://www.chadmoriyama.com/2012/02/ryan-braun-what-you-dont-know-about-his-case-is-important/

I have no idea who this guy is but he writes a pretty good piece that brings up the fact that every major sports "journalist" besides Will Carroll is ignoring: Ryan Braun's defense was able to repeat the positive drug test using the errors of the handler.







I was the first and most vehement despiser of Braun when the news broke. I was 100% ready to despise him and even called for his outright release should he be proven guilty. He wasn't. And he wasn't cleared on a technicality. The mishandling of his sample occurred in such a way that it was possible for it to test positive, as Braun's defense team clearly and repeatedly showed.

Is he innocent? No idea. Would any rational and sane person presented with these facts say that he is beyond a shadow of a doubt guilty? Absolutely not.

All that stuff doesn't take in account this though:

A sample left unrefrigerated for two days could begin to break down, Catlin said, which could alter the ratio one way or the other. That's why, whether a player's sample shows a 4-to-1 or 100-to-1 ratio, it's more important to determine whether the testosterone in his system was his own.

The IRMS test determined that the testosterone in Braun's sample was synthetic. Catlin and other experts said they do not believe it is possible that a sample could somehow develop exogenous testosterone, unless it were tampered with.

Braun did not dispute the positive IRMS test in his defense in front of the arbitration panel, according to two sources with knowledge of the hearing.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...-defense-raises-more-questions-doping-experts

I'm already tired of this story, but there's definitely more into what you're saying, than from a source in that link who's trying to sell a dollar kindle book to capitalize off this stuff. The ratio itself doesn't seem to matter as much as synthetics being present.

 

[eznark]

What an asinine thing to say. The article was put on amazon for charity prick.

 

[h3ro]

Hey man, Arod brought New York their first championship this CENTURY.

 

[TheNatural]

What an asinine thing to say. The article was put on amazon for charity prick.

Yup, I'm sure the 'proceeds' are - whatever he decides that to be. Point being, if this were such breaking relevant info that somehow all the media covering this missed, he would have put it out for free. Doesn't change the synthetic testosterone in the sample or how it pops up (or doesn't) over time.

 

[eznark]

Questioning the integrity of Will Carroll now? You're something else. Course, I'm guessing you have no idea who he is.

 

[TheNatural]

Questioning the integrity of Will Carroll now? You're something else. Course, I'm guessing you have no idea who he is.

Where does it say the defense accurately replicated synthetic testosterone being in someone's sample? Didn't seem to find that one.

 

[newjeruse]

Defending Will Carroll? Now I've heard it all. This is the same snake oil salesmen who tried to lure amateur pitchers to his house to teach them the gyroball. Only for them to find out 1)it doesn't exist and 2) he's completely incompetent about instructing pitching mechanics anyway.

 

[TheNatural]

Two simple points here. How is someone going to argue a sample left unrefridgerated fucks it up? This when it's being sent via FedEx to the lab? Do the samples go in some kind of fridge unit before their sent? Really doubt that. Also this:

"Around the world, on Sundays or holidays, couriers don't pick up and they don't deliver," said Travis Tygart, the CEO of the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA), which drug tests American athletes in Olympic sports. "Some of the labs around the world are closed over the weekend, so they can't even accept samples. And, importantly, they don't need to because synthetic drugs don't magically appear in urine because it took 48 hours versus 20 minutes to get to the laboratory."

I don't see how a defense is, not keeping it cold messes up the sample - when the entire process of it being sent isn't kept cold. Or the fact the USADA deals with this timeframe on a regular basis.

So what the hell is this actual defense that the test is bad? It wasn't sent ASAP - but the USADA even says that isn't a big deal. That it wasn't kept cold? Well, it's sure not being kept cold from FedEx. Nope, it's neither, it's the wording of the contract between MLB and the Players Union offered him an out.

 

[eznark]

Where does it say the defense accurately replicated synthetic testosterone being in someone's sample? Didn't seem to find that one.

They were able to repeat false positives. The USADA is clearly clueless. It's also a defense that has successfully overturned IOC bans in the past. How is someone going to argue it? My guess would be by successfully repeating it? Wonder if they tried that??

It doesnt. What it shows is that the sample is useless. That The MLB refused to allow for a DNA test shows that baseball was convinced something was potentially wrong with the sample as well. All signs point to this being a farce that never should have gone as far as it did.

 

[TheNatural]

It doesnt. What it shows is that the sample is useless. That The MLB refused to allow for a DNA test shows that baseball was convinced something was potentially wrong with the sample as well. All signs point to this being a farce that never should have gone as far as it did.

So the USADA is wrong and if a sample is useless when not cold, how is it being sent via FedEX?

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

What the hell kind of a dodge is that, ESPN?

Did that report state he had a positive result, them the second test was the fed ex screw up?

 

[eznark]

So the USADA is wrong and if a sample is useless when not cold, how is it being sent via FedEX?

Clearly. They're a special interest group with a clear bias. Do you default to whatever the NRA says on gun control without question?

 

[Windu]

Two simple points here. How is someone going to argue a sample left unrefridgerated fucks it up? This when it's being sent via FedEx to the lab? Do the samples go in some kind of fridge unit before their sent? Really doubt that. Also this:



I don't see how a defense is, not keeping it cold messes up the sample - when the entire process of it being sent isn't kept cold. Or the fact the USADA deals with this timeframe on a regular basis.

So what the hell is this actual defense that the test is bad? It wasn't sent ASAP - but the USADA even says that isn't a big deal. That it wasn't kept cold? Well, it's sure not being kept cold from FedEx. Nope, it's neither, it's the wording of the contract between MLB and the Players Union offered him an out.

their defense is that the process was compromised therefore the results of the sample can't be trusted. I think they made the right decision on this, you can't find someone guilty when your primary evidence can't be trusted.

 

[TheNatural]

Clearly. They're a special interest group with a clear bias. Do you default to whatever the NRA says on gun control without question?

You're comparing a testing agency with a gun support group? WTF?

The doping agency has no motivation to get someone tested dirty, they just test. And you say "this is why stuff always gets overturned." What the hell is "always" I'm guessing out of all the people that appeal, only a very small percentage get it over turned, and I'm guessing there's more to each appeal that "dur my pee was kept warm too long."

Take off the Brewers filed glasses. No one is saying synthetic testosterone just "shows up" in someone's test based on time. And apparently according to you, they just say that because they're an agenda driven organization that want tests to be positive. Uh, ok?

Why is the shit being sent from FedEx then if keeping it warm or cold matters so fucking much?

 

[TheNatural]

their defense is that the process was compromised therefore the results of the sample can't be trusted. I think they made the right decision on this, you can't find someone guilty when your primary evidence can't be trusted.

I agree that this is what overturned it. If you want to say he shouldn't be suspended because the process was fucked up and the carrier mishandled it in a way that broke the contract. That's fine. That's one subject though.

The other subject is, is the test still probably actually valid. Most with common sense, and not Mr Brewers would say, yes, all evidence points to the test results not changing a bit had it been sent off immediately.

 

[eznark]

You're comparing a testing agency with a gun support group? WTF?

The doping agency has no motivation to get someone tested dirty, they just test. And you say "this is why stuff always gets overturned." What the hell is "always" I'm guessing out of all the people that appeal, only a very small percentage get it over turned, and I'm guessing there's more to each appeal that "dur my pee was kept warm too long."

Take off the Brewers filed glasses. No one is saying synthetic testosterone just "shows up" in someone's test based on time. And apparently according to you, they just say that because they're an agenda driven organization that want tests to be positive. Uh, ok?

Why is the shit being sent from FedEx then if keeping it warm or cold matters so fucking much?

The USADA is as much a political organization as it is a scientific one. Denying that is to show ignorance of the agencies history of lobbying.

Where did I say anything about always getting overturned? If I did it was probably a typo. Trying to type one handed on phone while playing with my daughter.

 

[vas_a_morir]

their defense is that the process was compromised therefore the results of the sample can't be trusted. I think they made the right decision on this, you can't find someone guilty when your primary evidence can't be trusted.

If the piss does not ship, you must acquit. There shouldn't even be any argument here.

 

[TheNatural]

If the piss does not ship, you must acquit. There shouldn't even be any argument here.

We're not arguing about if it broke the contract. It's one thing to say, you fucked up the handling, therefore you broke the contract and the suspension won't be upheld.

Discussing if that actually did change the test results from clean to dirty is different though, and there's no evidence that not sending it off ASAP changed anything. Synthetic testosterone from an extrenal source that shows up in piss doesn't just show up because X amount of days passed.

All the talk about levels of testosterone ratios, but all this "it could be inaccurate" stuff depends on varying levels of naturally produced testosterone, I haven't seen a single defender point to anything about how synthetic testosterone can get in a sample over time.

There is a difference between saying he shouldn't have been suspended because the process was fucked up. If you want to say that, then that's fine, I respect that. But lets not equate that one in the same with how likely it was that changed the test in any way. Chances are, it didn't, and there's no evidence to show that it didn't unless you believe that someone flat out tampered with the triple sealed sample and then resealed it and forged the initials.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

You're comparing a testing agency with a gun support group? WTF?

The doping agency has no motivation to get someone tested dirty, they just test. And you say "this is why stuff always gets overturned." What the hell is "always" I'm guessing out of all the people that appeal, only a very small percentage get it over turned, and I'm guessing there's more to each appeal that "dur my pee was kept warm too long."

Take off the Brewers filed glasses. No one is saying synthetic testosterone just "shows up" in someone's test based on time. And apparently according to you, they just say that because they're an agenda driven organization that want tests to be positive. Uh, ok?

Why is the shit being sent from FedEx then if keeping it warm or cold matters so fucking much?

False, any testing facility has reason to prove more people need to be tested. Not saying this it's the case but there it's huge financial incentive to state 'we need to test mlb players' because it's a billion dollar business, so it's serious business. Most doctors feel the various tests we take are half scams because they cost at least $1000 a piece.

 

[TheNatural]

False, any testing facility has reason to prove more people need to be tested. Not saying this it's the case but there it's huge financial incentive to state 'we need to test mlb players' because it's a billion dollar business, so it's serious business. Most doctors feel the various tests we take are half scams because they cost at least $1000 a piece.

Wow are we really going into this tangent?

Somehow because the USADA lobbys for stuff, all of their guidelines are crap and no drug testing protocol can EVER be trusted. It's not backed up by science, it's just backed up by them saying so, even though they go by the international standard for testing.

Seriously what does any of this have to do with the fact that it's not weird that a test isn't sent in over the weekend in a lot of places because THERE'S NO PLACE TO SEND IT. That has nothing to do with lobbying or being a dirty organization, it has to do with IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE DAMN TEST RESULTS.

Where is the answer to how synthetic testosterone shows up in someones test because it took longer to get tested? Why can't someone answer this?

 

[eznark]

Wow are we really going into this tangent?

Somehow because the USADA lobbys for stuff, all of their guidelines are crap and no drug testing protocol can EVER be trusted. It's not backed up by science, it's just backed up by them saying so, even though they go by the international standard for testing.

Seriously what does any of this have to do with the fact that it's not weird that a test isn't sent in over the weekend in a lot of places because THERE'S NO PLACE TO SEND IT. That has nothing to do with lobbying or being a dirty organization, it has to do with IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE DAMN TEST RESULTS.

You need to read the case of the English Femle sprinter. Youre making assumptions that are not historically accurate.

 

[eznark]

Also...whyusomad.gif

 

[talisayNon]

seriously, ive never seen someone campaign so hard against a athlete, serena roberts is that you?

 

[TheNatural]

You need to read the case of the English Femle sprinter. Youre making assumptions that are not historically accurate.

I read the case and it didn't go into detail of anything. In that specific case it pointed out something was wrong because bacteria could increase the testosterone ratio. It didn't fucking say anythnig about synthetic testosterone being there. It increased the testosterone ratio, ok. Fine. What the fuck does that have to do with the separate test that showed that synthetic testosterone was there? That's what the big deal is here, not the fucking ratio.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Wow are we really going into this tangent?

Somehow because the USADA lobbys for stuff, all of their guidelines are crap and no drug testing protocol can EVER be trusted. It's not backed up by science, it's just backed up by them saying so, even though they go by the international standard for testing.

Seriously what does any of this have to do with the fact that it's not weird that a test isn't sent in over the weekend in a lot of places because THERE'S NO PLACE TO SEND IT. That has nothing to do with lobbying or being a dirty organization, it has to do with IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE DAMN TEST RESULTS.

Where is the answer to how synthetic testosterone shows up in someones test because it took longer to get tested? Why can't someone answer this?

I didn't say that. You said there it's no incentive for them which I think is false. Any drug testing facility associated with mlb is now making a ton of money versus 30 years ago. Are you staying that is not an incentive?

 

[eznark]

seriously, ive never seen someone campaign so hard against a athlete, serena roberts is that you?

Show us on the doll where the bad Braun touched you, TN.

So salty! If you fit fourteen fucks into your next response I will concede you win.

 

[TheNatural]

Show us on the doll where the bad Braun touched you, TN.

So salty! If you fit fourteen fucks into your next response I will concede you win.

Nah it's just annoying you can't answer a simple question, and have nothing more to do but try to troll. I don't like roiders, it's that simple. If this were Votto, I sure as fuck wouldn't be acting like he was exonerated, that's for sure. You can't account for why synthetic testosterone was in his system, unless the sample was fucked with, it's that simple.

I'm sure you got a one liner or a tired meme to respond with, or give me some shit about another case in Zimbabwe where an African surfer accidentally had his urine replaced with Diet Coke and invalidated the test therefore, Braun is exonerated.

MY HAIR IS A BIRD THEREFORE BRAUN DID NOT ROID

 

[alstein]

Show us on the doll where the bad Braun touched you, TN.

So salty! If you fit fourteen fucks into your next response I will concede you win.

I think this is MLB to all this, as well as ESPN.

Braun has made some powerful enemies. The good thing for him is that unlike other sports, the umpires are high quality and don't have to take crap from the owners.

I just hope he has an early-season slump right now.

 

[vas_a_morir]

MLB-GAF is in mid-season form.

 

[eznark]

The positive test came on a fouled sample. What's there to argue? You don't want to admit that and would prefer to scream and cuss. You're prerogative. Do whatcha wanna do.

 

[aFIGurANT]

He handled it like he had nothing to hide and trusted the system at the HoF speech a month ago and now Braun is making himself look more like a Clemens than a McGwire and it's bad for baseball. Granted we now know that these guys knowingly knew they were doping and Braun is surviving on his rep for the most part and is still a golden boy to many, but this is going to hurt his image with those that liked him even. And haters definitely going to find a way to hate whenever possible...personally I can't wait for the Cards to own them alll season just like the last half of '11.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Sigh.

 

[Maxim726X]

The positive test came on a fouled sample. What's there to argue? You don't want to admit that and would prefer to scream and cuss. You're prerogative. Do whatcha wanna do.

Yes. Someone poured exogenous testosterone into his urine sample.

It all makes sense now.

 

[TheNatural]

Yes. Someone poured exogenous testosterone into his urine sample.

It all makes sense now.

I changed my mind. I just thought of something genius and put a quick patent in for it.

It's called ...

Pissosterone (trademark pending.)

Get this, you get roided - off your own piss. I send you a special kit (for the low price of $49.99). It includes specialized plastic cup and seal using the new bleeding edge technology used by major leaguers, and specialized blue "pissfilter" to promptly use the suns rays to effectively maximize the synthetic testosterone building gamma meta protein molecules inside your urine to create the most effective testosterone boosting supplement ever made.

After three days you pour it into our specialized vial filter to filter out impurites and straight into a a sterile serenge, which we provide at no costs.

Experience gains like no other!

It's ... PISSOSTERONE.

 

[mjc]

I changed my mind. I just thought of something genius and put a quick patent in for it.

It's called ...

Pissosterone (trademark pending.)

Get this, you get roided - off your own piss. I send you a special kit (for the low price of $49.99). It includes specialized plastic cup and seal using the new bleeding edge technology used by major leaguers, and specialized blue "pissfilter" to promptly use the suns rays to effectively maximize the synthetic testosterone building gamma meta protein molecules inside your urine to create the most effective testosterone boosting supplement ever made.

After three days you pour it into our specialized vial filter to filter out impurites and straight into a a sterile serenge, which we provide at no costs.

Experience gains like no other!

It's ... PISSOSTERONE.

I think its cool that you're spending so much time thinking about the uses of testosterone. You should sell that IMO.