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MLB Off-Season 2011: Only a few more weeks until the radio talks about baseball again

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C

clemenx

Banned
It's fucking stupid, just like A-Rod 2nd contract. They're paying that because he was the best player in baseball years ago with the Cards. He hasn't even been the best 1B in the game. the last 2 years.
 
R

rekameohs

Banned
I love the insane amount of customization options in High Heat that allowed for hilariously unbalanced games to happen. That was awesome.
 
O

Opiate

Member
Windu said:
I don't see what is crazy about the assumption he might see a big decline. He already has some injury problems, he is over 30 and plays 1B because he isnt althetic enough to play other positions. Not the type of player I would want to give a 10 year contract to even if he is Albert Pujols.
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Almost no one is suggesting this is a good contract. The most optimistic spin you could put on this is that his inherent superstardom and latino heritage will be draws for the club beyond his actual performance.

I can see that being true for at least a couple of years. I just think this contract is going to be a disaster for the last 5 to 7 years of the contract.
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
I think it's reasonable to assume he'll be a superstar for the first 4-5 years or so of the contract. On the back end all they're hoping for is Ryan Howard, big name draw with a lesser game but not really crippling their chances of winning baseball games.
 
K

Karakand

Member
eznark said:
Me neither. I didn't look into it (which is why I said supposedly. I should have said "unnamed source" they are never questioned!) Just a number the guys on ESPN St. Louis mentioned.
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The only thing I could think of was that they were including the money he allegedly left on the table in Miami with the amount of tax he would be paying (in a worst case scenario).

Or they didn't look at tax rates and figured the difference between 9.3 + 1% and 13% wasn't millions and millions of dollars.
 
O

Opiate

Member
darkside31337 said:
I think it's reasonable to assume he'll be a superstar for the first 4-5 years or so of the contract. On the back end all they're hoping for is Ryan Howard, big name draw with a lesser game but not really crippling their chances of winning baseball games.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that is reasonable. He's already shown signs of decline. Just look at the last 5 years:

2007: 1st in Fangraphs WAR
2008: 1st in WAR (9.1)
2009: 1st in WAR (9.0)
2010: 4th in WAR (7.5)
2011: 26th in WAR (5.1)

Using Baseball reference:

2008: 1st in WAR (9.6)
2009: 1st in WAR (8.8)
2010: 3rd in WAR (7.1)
2011: Out of the top 10 (5.4)

Now, I'm not suggesting a bump back up isn't possible. He doesn't have to continue declining at a consistent, steady pace. But I would say he's unlikely to ever be the best player in baseball again, and it is quite possible his days of "superstar" status are rapidly coming to an end. Depending on what you think of as a "superstar."
 
E

eznark

Banned
Karakand said:
The only thing I could think of was that they were including the money he allegedly left on the table in Miami with the amount of tax he would be paying (in a worst case scenario).

Or they didn't look at tax rates and figured the difference between 9.3 + 1% and 13% wasn't millions and millions of dollars.
Click to expand...

Well yes, obviously that was factored into it. The questions being asked was how much did he forego.
 
E

eznark

Banned
Then that was an error on my part. I meant total foregone income. At least I think I did. I don't know, fucking winter meetings man!
 
T

The Frankman

Banned
Basketball Reasons said:
bandwagoner?
check my stats post history.
i've always supported the angels.
i've always disliked the doyers.
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YOU HARDLY EVER POST OUTSIDE OF THE PLAYOFFS! You spend more time in NBA-GAF than anywhere else! Now you checking in again in the offseason?
Basketball Reasons said:
why im posting again?
i've got my reasons....
Click to expand...
Wonder if Sandy knows what they are...

AldersonVampires.png
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
Nationals/Tigers trade relief pitchers.

Nationals get Ryan Perry. Tigers get Collin Balester.

Perry was the 21st overall pick in the 2008 draft.
 
T

The Frankman

Banned
In a post to Twitter yesterday, Jon Heyman of CBS Sports said C Ivan Rodriguez is working out, and could be a possibility for both the Mets and the Rays.

In 21 big league season, the 40-year-old Rodriguez has hit .296 with 311 home runs and 1332 RBI with the Rangers, Marlins, Nationals, Tigers, Yankees and Astros. He appeared in 44 games with the Nationals in 2011 and hit .218 with two home runs and 19 RBI in 124 at bats.
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I would love Rodriguez on the Mets. Awesome with young players, a good right-handed compliment to Josh Thole, who would become a real man under Ivan's tutelage. Also no matter who wins, darkside31337 can't lose!
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
The Frankman said:
I would love Rodriguez on the Mets. Awesome with young players, a good right-handed compliment to Josh Thole, who would become a real man under Ivan's tutelage. Also no matter who wins, darkside31337 can't lose!
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Uh, he could sign with the Mets.

But I guess I still win then because the Mets will be stuck with a washed up 40 year old catcher. Fitting for them really.
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
The Frankman said:
Did you renounce your Mets fandom again? I can never keep track with you.

If he can still produce part-time age means shit. Plus it's a rebuilding year and he needs to make a man outta Josh Thole.
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I think he makes sense for the Mets for the reasons you mentioned. And yes I'm still a Mets fan deep down in my heart. The Rays are my AL / I'm already retired in my mid 20's living in Florida team. I support the Rays because nobody else in this state does :(
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
Papelbon's Phillies contract:

2012: $11,000,058
2013: $13,000,000
2014: $13,000,000
2015: $13,000,000

$13 million option for 2016 that vests with 55 games finished in 2015 or 100 games finished in 2014-2015 AND if not on the DL with a right shoulder or elbow injury at the end of 2015.

Incentives:
$100,000 bonus for World Series MVP
$100,000 bonus for Cy Young
$100,000 bonus for Rolaids Relief
$75,000 bonus for Rolaids Relief second place
$50,000 bonus for Rolaids Relief third place
$50,000 bonus for All-Star selection
$50,000 bonus for LCS MVP
$50,000 bonus for Gold Glove

Limited no-trade clause.
 
R

rekameohs

Banned
Hmm, if it's Parker for Cahill I would be okay. As long as Bauer/Skaggs/Bradley are secure it's fine. Cahill would make a solid #3 pitcher and Parker would be a risk coming back from Tommy John. I guess I'm in for this one, but there's a chance this could be a steal either way.

A Kennedy/Hudson/Cahill/Skaggs/Bauer rotation could be brutal in the NL West

EDIT: Apparently the deal's done. Sounds like Cahill for Parker, Colin Cowgill, and Ryan Cook. Cowgill and Cook are fairly meaningless, though Cowgill is a decent 4th outfielder
 
C

Coins

Banned
alphaNoid said:
Bitter tears, keep 'em coming.
KuGsj.gif
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No bitter tears here. I was ecstatic to see he left with that contract. If the Cards signed him for 10 years we would have been screwed due to decline with age, him getting Tommy John surgery (gone a year) and his foot problem that he has been battling (the condition has ended careers, can't remember the name).

I feel like the Cards were playing hot potato with a hand grenade and the music stopped as
Anaheim caught it.
 
C

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
Three things that should never be in baseball contracts:

1) No-Trade Clauses
2) Opt-Out Clauses
3) Player Options
 
D

Doytch

Member
Cowgill makes sense for the A's. Fast OFer, and they need someone to replace the guys who are leaving.

Read that the Dbacks also get Breslow.
 
A

Adam Blade

WWKC
Hunter, 36, who has contemplated retiring after his five-year contract expires after next season, was so thrilled by Thursday's moves that he offered to sign a cut-rate deal to remain in Anaheim.

"I want to end my career here, whether it's two or three more years, and it won't be about money," he said. "I like Arte [Moreno, Angels owner], you want to play for him, and I'll take less to stay. I'll be a utility guy or play third base as long as we win."
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Heh.
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
Basketball Reasons said:
bandwagoner?
check my stats post history.
i've always supported the angels.
i've always disliked the doyers.

why im posting again?
i've got my reasons....
Click to expand...
I have never seen you post in the MLB thread since I have been on gaf, first time I have seen that name. Anyway, more the merrier.
 
A

alphaNoid

Banned
Coins said:
No bitter tears here. I was ecstatic to see he left with that contract. If the Cards signed him for 10 years we would have been screwed due to decline with age, him getting Tommy John surgery (gone a year) and his foot problem that he has been battling (the condition has ended careers, can't remember the name).

I feel like the Cards were playing hot potato with a hand grenade and the music stopped as
Anaheim caught it.
Click to expand...

I see your points, but they fall on deaf ears. The only people talking this talk are bitter Cards fans still trying to accept that their golden boy is gone. Everyone knows that the tail end of a 10 year contract is unknown, but in the AL Albert will just DH if need be, something he couldn't do in the NL.

Its really as simple as that, there isn't some kind of secret layer to peel back here. Albert was paid that much money because he is arguably the best offensive player in all of baseball right now.

I can assure you that the notion that the Angels somehow are the losers in this deal, is ridiculous and silly. Even the Cards GM was flat out deflated in his press conference and expected/wanted Albert to sign on. Had he been resigned Cards fan everywhere would be on internet forums talking about a big sigh of relief. But since he's not returning all of a sudden its ... "Good he's going to suck, is falling apart and THANK GOD for the Angels taking him off our hands!"

laugh out loud

edit. See ya in the playoffs.
 
R

Rafa=FedKilla

Banned
I don't know about you, but I don't want a guy named Cowgill on my team. I knew the 's would be fire sellin' until they get San Jose or they go the way of the Expos, but this is despicable. And the only guy they won't listen on is weeks? Trade that brah for pitchers man.
 
C

Coins

Banned
alphaNoid said:
I see your points, but they fall on deaf ears. The only people talking this talk are bitter Cards fans still trying to accept that their golden boy is gone. Everyone knows that the tail end of a 10 year contract is unknown, but in the AL Albert will just DH if need be, something he couldn't do in the NL.

Its really as simple as that, there isn't some kind of secret layer to peel back here. Albert was paid that much money because he is arguably the best offensive player in all of baseball right now.

I can assure you that the notion that the Angels somehow are the losers in this deal, is ridiculous and silly. Even the Cards GM was flat out deflated in his press conference and expected/wanted Albert to sign on. Had he been resigned Cards fan everywhere would be on internet forums talking about a big sigh of relief. But since he's not returning all of a sudden its ... "Good he's going to suck, is falling apart and THANK GOD for the Angels taking him off our hands!"

laugh out loud

edit. See ya in the playoffs.
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If you had listened to the sports community in St. Louis, we were pretty excited about the Marlins taking him away when we heard that it was a possibility. The Pujols is God sentiment he used to have in the midwest has been gone for a few seasons now. He went from a personable player to an arrogant ass who refused to even look fans in the eyes when they PAID (required) him for autographs.

I dont expect a fan from a team with no lengthy winning legacy to understand. If youre a Cards fan, there is something we call "The Cardinal Way" and its been around for decades. No one player is bigger than the team.

By no means am I saying he was a cancer or distraction, but we pretty much knew he was going to go away two years ago. We still cheered the shit out of him, though, as Cards fans do. We even cheer good plays from the opposing team. If anything we are bummed because his early years harkened back to a time of Stan Musial and most of my generation only heard stories of this great player and person. Thats ok, though, we'll always have Stan.
 
O

Opiate

Member
alphaNoid said:
I see your points, but they fall on deaf ears. The only people talking this talk are bitter Cards fans still trying to accept that their golden boy is gone. Everyone knows that the tail end of a 10 year contract is unknown, but in the AL Albert will just DH if need be, something he couldn't do in the NL.
Click to expand...

Almost every pundit I've seen has said this is a bad deal.

Fangraphs
Keith Law


Very few people in here are Cardinals fans, and despite that, everyone seems to think it's a bad deal. I have seen very few analysts (i.e. more than talking heads) suggesting this is a good trade and cite precisely the same reservations expressed in this thread.

This does mean, of course, that Pujols is a bad player. He's a great one, and will help your team for years. In at least that, you should be very pleased.
 
C

Coins

Banned
Opiate said:
Almost every pundit I've seen has said this is a bad deal.

Fangraphs
Keith Law


I have seen very few analysts (i.e. more than talking heads) suggesting this is a good trade and cite precisely the same reservations expressed in this thread.
Click to expand...

Keith Law was on a local St Louis radio show today and basically explained how this contract will only be a good "baseball" signing is if the Angels win 2 or 3 World Series in the next 4 years. However, he did say this could be a good "Business" signing if Pujols can connect to the Latino community and draw Dodger fans away.
 
O

Opiate

Member
Coins said:
Keith Law was on a local St Louis radio show today and basically explained how this contract will only be a good "baseball" signing is if the Angels win 2 or 3 World Series in the next 4 years. However, he did say this could be a good "Business" signing if Pujols can connect to the Latino community and draw Dodger fans away.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's always a consideration -- it's just impossible to quantify. It is not an absurd claim.
 
O

Opiate

Member
Speaking purely offensively, Votto was better last year. Braun was better. Kemp was better. Cabrera was. And yes, Jose Bautista was as well.

However, Pujols did have at least 3-4 years in a row where he was definitely the best offensive player in the game. I'm just not at all convinced those years are coming back, as he'll be 32 to start next season. I wouldn't put it past him, but I wouldn't bet on it, either.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Opiate said:
Speaking purely offensively, Votto was better last year. Braun was better. Kemp was better. Cabrera was. And yes, Jose Bautista was as well.

However, Pujols did have at least 3-4 years in a row where he was definitely the best offensive player in the game. I'm just not at all convinced those years are coming back, as he'll be 32 to start next season. I wouldn't put it past him, but I wouldn't bet on it, either.
Click to expand...

heheeheheh
 
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