Mr. Enigma
Member
That Albert contract is going to be hilarious halfway in. The A-Rod one is already terribad with 6 years remaining.
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MLB Off-Season 2011: Only a few more weeks until the radio talks about baseball again
- Thread starter Windu
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But coins is right that the "intangibles" here do matter; Pujols ability to reel in Latino and Dodger fans. I'm just not sure how much they matter. They could matter a lot, or they may make very little difference at all. Pujols is not especially friendly with the press. Further, we'll never have any real way to measure those effects.
Little Green Yoda
Member
I think Pujols could very well have lived up to the 200-220 million that the Cards supposely offered. There's also a small chance he lives up to 250 million he signed for*. But there's so much risk involved that I can understand why the Cards didn't match. As others have said, injuries and age are likely going to overcome his talents before the contract expires. He should be good for at least a few more 6+ WAR seasons barring injury. Hope you guys make the best of those years.
*between inflation in baseball and backloading of his contract
*between inflation in baseball and backloading of his contract
the most impressive thing about Pujols is that his career wRC+ is 167. Goddamn. The next closest of the 2011 leaders is Votto at 151 and he has only played 4 full seasons.
2011 wRC+ Leaders:
Code:
1. Bautista 181
2. Braun 179
3. Cabrera 177
4. Kemp 171
5. Fielder 162
6. Berkman 159
7. Votto 155
8. Holliday 154
9. Gonzalez 153
10. Ortiz 153
11. Ellsbury 150
12. Reyes 149
13. Pujols 148
Code:
1. Pujols 167
2. Votto 151
3. Braun 149
4. Berkman 146
5. Cabrera 146
6. Fielder 141
7. Holliday 139
8. Gonzalez 135
9. Ortiz 135
10. Kemp 126
11. Beltran 124
12. Bautista 123
13. Reyes 112Pujols wRC+ Ranks
Code:
2001 (12th) (158)
2002 (16th) (148)
2003 (2nd) (185)
2004 (2nd) (170)
2005 (3rd) (170)
2006 (2nd) (175)
2007 (9th) (151)
2008 (1st) (184)
2009 (1st) (182)
2010 (5th) (165)
2011 (13th) (148)Anyway, that first Pujols extension with the cardinals was one of the best deals ever.
Very much agreed, Windu. And I think time will be kinder to Pujols' "level" than it will be to Bonds, whether Bonds gets in to the Hall or not (he probably will, and he definitely should).
The question is whether Pujols will ever attain that level again, and if so, for how long. It's an impossible question to answer, of course.
The question is whether Pujols will ever attain that level again, and if so, for how long. It's an impossible question to answer, of course.
bonds should be in the hall just based on his years before he allegedly did steroids. Think the consensus is like 1999 or something, after the sosa/mgwire hr race. And its not barely in the hall, he already had more than enough numbers to get in. Anyway, the Pujols contract would probably be fair market vaule if he averaged like 5 war over the 10 years or something, that isn't going to happen imo.
He was barely 5 war last year, by Fangraphs, and 5.4 by BR.
Eat shit, Torii.
Little Green Yoda
Member
Aside from health, the main concern is whether or not his first 2 months of 2011 mean anything or if it was a fluke. From May 30th to the end of the regular season, he batted .322/.338./.623 which is close to his career line of .328/.420/.617. Not as many walks as vintage Pujols, which fits the narrative that he's chasing too many bad pitches out of the zone. As said earlier, BABIP was also against him this year - .277 vs a career mark of .311 with only a slight drop in LD% compared to his career rate (17% vs 19%).
The other thing impacting his WAR is the somewhat inconsistent UZR. He was ranked 9th amongst qualified 1B in UZR despite the Fielding Bible considering him the best defensive 1B last year. His UZR numbers from 2006-2008 were really high in comparison and he doesn't seem to have lost that much defensively (in the admittedly few number of games I watched of him since I'm not in the STL area and too cheap to shell out money for mlb.tv).
Which is why I think a bump back up is plausible, with two qualifications:
1) I do not think the "bump up" will restore him to previous dominance
2) I do not think the "bump up" will last for more than 2-3 years before decline relentlessly marches on.
Lastly, it's also plausible that Pujols' various injuries will finally catch up to him, as he's miraculously avoided significant time out thus far.
Little Green Yoda
Member
Agreed, his peak years are behind him. Also agreeing that a few more years of very good (but not great) baseball from him should still be in cards. 
ConradCervantes
Banned
So I've avoided ESPN and the like the past couple days. What is the general reaction in St. Louis? Are the fans screaming betrayal like LeBron leaving Cleveland, or are they more or less taking the higher road and bidding him farewell?
Somewhere in between. I wouldn't quite call it a "kind farewell," but not apoplectic rage either; the reaction seems more akin to, "that's too much money, we'll be better off without him."
Hardly a fond farewell, but not a violent or pernicious one either.
Albert is going to be a good hitter for a long time still. He might lose some power as he gets a bit older, but I don't have any reason to think he's not going to be able to drive in runs. Once he has too, he will slide into the DH spot regardless of what he may have said before. He's not going to simply refuse to DH if that's what his team needs him to do. The DH in the AL starts to look really sexy once you're older and can't play the field as well as before.
Guys like Albert can thrive in the AL because of the DH. 10 year deals to 31 year olds for the price he signed for is simply too much for the NL(especially with a NTC). 6 years at $150 would have been fine, but he was looking out for his family and wanted to ensure he received the most he could and I'm okay with that.
Good luck in Cali bud, hope you do well out there.
Guys like Albert can thrive in the AL because of the DH. 10 year deals to 31 year olds for the price he signed for is simply too much for the NL(especially with a NTC). 6 years at $150 would have been fine, but he was looking out for his family and wanted to ensure he received the most he could and I'm okay with that.
Good luck in Cali bud, hope you do well out there.
I think you're probably on the high end, but I think the evidence is like every other player in history. Especially those that are like secretly 40
Im assuming you dont live in St. Louis. There have been jersey burnings and they had to put a guard on his statue. People are pissed. Not Lebron type rage, but pissed.
My buddy who lives there claims that those nutters are an outlier. I've been listening to St. Louis sports talk all week and honestly, I've been mostly disappointed. The rage on the radio is too passive aggressive for me.
"Well, if he didn't want to be loved and adored like Stan Musial then he should have left. Good riddance. Who needs him......" *uncontrollable sobbing*
Adam Blade
WWKC
I feel bad for the STL fans, but St. Louis is such a crappy city.
RumblingRosco
Member
My reaction (as a Cards fan): I'd love to have had him stay with the Cards and become a Stan Musial-like legend, regardless of his performance. On the other hand, being in the NL, it's absolutely clear that last half of his contract would have been rough on us without a DH position for him. I'm of the belief that he'll make half that contract worth it, whether it's from on-field performance or off-field tickets/viewers. As for my Pujols jersey? It's going to be retired. Not burning it, but I highly doubt I'll be wearing it again to any of the games. Tough pill to swallow, I suppose.
Maybe I'll get a La Russa jersey to wear.
Maybe I'll get a La Russa jersey to wear.
The worst of all the cities.
The restaurant staff put the guard out there for no reason. No one showed up to his place. The jersey burning idiots are a handful of people that the media used to try to capture some Lebron level hate.
Oh, and I do live in the metro area.
BFIB
Member
I was expecting the LeBron level hate to be spewing out of the fanbase, but overall, I think we all are having the same sentiment: Sad to see him go, but glad we aren't handicapped with that contract.
Granted, I think winning the WS did stem the tide a little bit, its a lot easier to cushion the blow when you just won it all. Had we not won, I would have expected the hate to be a little more vocal, and more ridiculous.
On another note, looks like the Cardinals are closing in on a deal with Furcal. I like Furcal, but if we are going to reinvest the Pujols money, I'd rather attempt to get a young upcoming SS with a lot of upside, than a "fill in the gap" player we've had at that position since Renteria left.
Adam Blade
WWKC
Truthiness.
acheron_xl
Member
Let me know when you find such a player. I think the Crew might be interested too.
Little Green Yoda
Member
It's nice to want things. But those kind of players don't grow on trees unfortunately. Unless you can somehow trade for one of the SS named Ramirez, pickings are slim in that category. Neither will come cheap in terms of prospects. If you look at FAs only, it's Rollins or Furcal at this point and I'd rather not commit to either for more than 2 years (guess which one will ask for fewer years, less money?) Furcal and Beltran on short deals is probably the best plan right now if we don't delve into trades.
That goes back to the other reason why I wanted Pujols signed. Nobody else out there we really should be throwing big money at right now, barring trades to open up more possibilities. I would've been okay with Reyes as a plan B but he signed too early.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
Proof that Albert Pujols really is 41 years old.
Albert Pujols mistakenly calls Jered Weaver "Jeff" at his #Angels introduction, while thanking his new teammates.
Albert Pujols mistakenly calls Jered Weaver "Jeff" at his #Angels introduction, while thanking his new teammates.
Mr. Enigma
Member
Cardinals and Rafael Furcal agree on a 2-year, $14 million deal.
Adam Blade
WWKC
Mm... Pujols and CJ in Anglols red...
captmcblack
Member
That just looks so wrong.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
Got a court to subpoena him for his long-form birth certificate.
RumblingRosco
Member
A highly religious man joins the Angels? Not a coincidence if you ask me!
Man, just doesn't look right on Pujols.
acheron_xl
Member
It's still red though. Imagine him mugging in Marlins orange.
DevelopmentArrested
Banned
Ryan braun tested positive for steroids
Later!!!
Later!!!
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
Ryan Braun suspended 50 games for steroids.
He should give the MVP back.
He should give the MVP back.
Adam Blade
WWKC
lol
acheron_xl
Member
Well, shit.
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