winjer
Member
Doesn't the leak says ~260mm?
Read carefully what Kepler said.
[MLID] Zen 6 Magnus Leak: AMD's MASSIVE APU for next gen console (+ Medusa Point Specs)
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- Rumor Hype
Read carefully what Kepler said.
Loxus
Member
I don't believe it'll cost over a $1000 if it's a traditional console. The 5090 BOM probably cost ~$750 with most of the budget going to die cost. It's high MSRP cost is due R&D, logistics, marketing, etc.
With consoles we generally see little MSRP increase compared to BOM.
Console manufacturers generally aim for small die sizes due to wafer cost and yields. With a chiplet design, you can aim for larger overall size due to the improve yields of smaller chips.
Even though the overall size is large, it may cost the same as a smaller monolithic die.
With consoles we generally see little MSRP increase compared to BOM.
Console manufacturers generally aim for small die sizes due to wafer cost and yields. With a chiplet design, you can aim for larger overall size due to the improve yields of smaller chips.
Even though the overall size is large, it may cost the same as a smaller monolithic die.
Loxus
Member
Isn't Jupiter the codename for the PS6 handheld or is that rumor false?
Radical_3d
Member
???? Kepler just said it's not PS6 but XBox.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Actually I think I've misread Kepler's post there. I'll edit my previous post.
winjer
Member
MikeM
Member
It may IF Rockstar wants the game to sell well on handhelds too
Radical_3d
Member
So it's contradicting what the MLID leak said? Or are two different machines? But even if they are different machines Kepler commented that the MLID leak is probably an XBox. And everything is an XBox /s
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I'm open to corrected by Kepler but...:
Codename [Magnus] is not a Shakespeare character[AMD uses for PS), every AMD Playstation APU so far has been 256-bit [Magnus is 384bit] , and the die size in general [for Magnus] is extremely large (50% larger than the PS5).
If I'm right that makes things clearer?
Radical_3d
Member
foamdino
Member
I'm gonna do a bit of wild (totally not real) speculation:
It's the next XBox apu
Also I'm fairly certain there's not enough "custom" stuff on here - MLID would have called out anything that wasn't normal (like the bus)
It's the next XBox apu
- 8 zen6c == back compat with series consoles/xbox one
- 3 big zen6 == emulation grunt for 360 ppc chip (which was tri-core) - edit, actually they already emulate in sw so they don't need to map 1:1 cores - forget this note then.
- huge bus (384 bit) - MS likes to do this
Also I'm fairly certain there's not enough "custom" stuff on here - MLID would have called out anything that wasn't normal (like the bus)
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Then fuck off from this thread?
Bernardougf
Member
They have a bigger problem than that.. they are releasing first party sequel games 5 years into the gen that barely looks different from their counter part on ps4, and their PSSR proprietary upscaling was rushed out of the door with visible compatibility flaws with current RT tech... if they want to sell the ps6 in huge numbers from the get go, they will have to do with a good number of exclusives (not crossgen) and that showcase from the getgo the power of the system as something really different.
Trying to sell a 699 system with crossgen games that look like ps5 games its going to be a bitch (exactly like the ps5pro).. I dont know even if a 599 system changes that much
Imo they have to do like nintendo and sit on this thing until at least 29/30 to launch something with a bigger cost/benefit effectiveness and give their studios and partners time to make exclusive games for it.
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mayham2199
Member
I'm not so sure. They have so many people on PS4 I could see them upgrading to PS6 quickly as they'll see it as a very big jump. It's hard to predict honestly because we are in unknown territory.
Fake rumor.
144mm² SoC + 264mm² GCD = 408mm² total area, though my 50% number is only accurate versus Oberon Plus in the PS5 Slim (270mm²), original PS5/Oberon is 300mm2 so Magnus is "only" 33% larger in that case.
Doesn't the leak says ~260mm?
Bernardougf
Member
I can only assume that anyone still on ps4 is doing it only for monetary saving reasons, expending 699+ dollars on a new system might not be what they are looking for. But yeah its a fair point.
Anyway I dont think Sony can count with too much FOMO this time... not for a huge launch.. they will have to bring reasons (games) to buy their system.
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RodriGames40
Member
I am actually one of these, my last PS was a PS4 and due to prohibitive PC prices I might actually jump over to PS6 outright. Around 40-50 million people might as well be in the same boat.
Bernardougf
Member
Dont know if you already answered this question.. but do you see Sony maintaining their classic "release" scheduled.... or you think this gen might get longer than 2028 for ex.
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cinnamonandgravy
Member
22core, 384bus, 400mm2...
$1500 is too wild though
$1500 is too wild though
Proelite
Member
How much denser is N3P vs N4P. 264mm2 is N3P all GPU, while Oberon is 270mm2 N4P with 8 core Zen 2.
Yea but unless there's like 4 of them in SLI configuration that's not the biggest generational jump (Xbox or otherwise).
I trust Sarah Bond over all of yous!
I mean in fairness - Sony was happily shipping consoles well in excess of 500mm2 of silicon during PS2/PS3 era. But yea it's clearly not the way modern consoles have been built - Cerny or otherwise. Obviously for a good reason - back then 550mm2 would be 90 by the time generation ended - nowadays you'll be lucky to be able to afford one node shrink and that won't be dramatic either.
Physiognomonics
Member
Yep. 256bit bus, 8 zen6c cores, and no cpu L3 cache will reduce it a lot already vs that leaked Xbox. How many CUs to get to about 300mm² APU at 3nm?
They could go L3 CPU 3D cache this time (could they?) but it wouldn't change the APU die size.
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HeisenbergFX4
Member
Largest technical leap was the wording which likely means some sort of AIYea but unless there's like 4 of them in SLI configuration that's not the biggest generational jump (Xbox or otherwise).
I trust Sarah Bond over all of yous!
I mean in fairness - Sony was happily shipping consoles well in excess of 500mm2 of silicon during PS2/PS3 era. But yea it's clearly not the way modern consoles have been built - Cerny or otherwise. Obviously for a good reason - back then 550mm2 would be 90 by the time generation ended - nowadays you'll be lucky to be able to afford one node shrink and that won't be dramatic either.
Sarah said it, I trust her, MS doesn't do tricks.
Besides when has Spencer's team ever lied about anything?
Ar¢tos
Member
Games (AAA) only stopped being crossgen now (and not all of them) 5 years into the new gen, I have a PS5 but I have yet to play a game that isn't crossgen.
No matter when the PS6 releases, there is no reason to buy one until 5-6 years have passed because of the crossgen curse.
I would still be playing on PS4 if it hadn't broken down and I couldn't find a new one cheaper than a PS5.
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Bernardougf
Member
Thats my line of thought also.. I just bought the Pro.. so Ill happily wait unti the next "Pro" launch to buy one ...
But if they come with a great lineup of launch exclusives (not crossgen) then things can be different for me at least. Specially if bloodborne remake becames an ps6 exclusive launch just like demons souls.
mayham2199
Member
Well I thinking of it more like PC. When I was on PC I never got the next Nvidia card but I would get the one after. So like I want from a 1080 to a 3080. I know a lot of PC users operated this way as well.
LavitzSlambert
Member
You mean like, almost everyone?
nowhat
Member
In upcoming hardware or writing the wording?
JerryinSoCal
Member
In his video he said it could also be the next xbox, he seemed to be leaning towards PS6 based on the way it was shaped or something lol. I won't make fun of him, he knows more about this stuff than I do and you know more about it than he does so I would always take what you say over him.
twilo99
Member
Mlid picture, It matches with leaked image
Why do big little for gaming hardware?
60% denser Logic, SRAM and Analog are pretty much the same.
Quoting myself from just a few days ago
Die size suggests something like 80 CUs at probably 3GHz or so, which puts Sparse Matrix FP4 performance at almost 2000 Teraflops or 83x faster than the Xbox Series X using FP16 (technically still not the biggest leap ever, but a very large number at least
)Physiognomonics
Member
Chiplet config could also be another good reason for the 'biggest technological leap ever' claim.
No. Oberon Plus is PS5 at 6 nm. PS5 Pro with 60CUs uses N4P and is 279mm²
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reinking
Gold Member
Switch 1&2 - Nintendo console fans + PC and/or PlayStation (same as it is today)
ps4/5/6/pros - PlayStation console fans + PC and/or Switch 2 (same as it is today)
pc/nextbox/portable pcs ect.. - PC fans (old and new) + Switch and/or PlayStation
Combining the Xbox and PC fans doesn't really harm Nintendo and Sony. If anything, it helps because all indications point to Xbox games being everywhere. What will harm Sony is a 1K plus console.
I guess they could measure it against Series S to make the difference even largerDie size suggests something like 80 CUs at probably 3GHz or so, which puts Sparse Matrix FP4 performance at almost 2000 Teraflops or 83x faster than the Xbox Series X using FP16 (technically still not the biggest leap ever, but a very large number at least
I realize PR will PR - but when we last had these 100x increments there was actual ways to demo the difference. Irrespective of actual computational delta - these companies will need a lot better than 'generating a few extra pixels' to show the reason why anyone should be excited about AI acceleration as a generational transition.
Especially with Switch 2 and Pro already on the market doing the same.
And mind you - not saying there's no way to demo game-changing things with AI (a lot of interesting research that hasn't seen the light of day is now already a decade old) - but I just don't see any of the console platform holders at the forefront of it - there's been way too much complacency with all 3 of them (and markets are showering them with money regardless).
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Proelite
Member
Sorry, that's was my intention. Thanks for the correction.
asdasdasdbb
Member
60 fps (+ FG)
Proelite
Member
Die size suggests something like 80 CUs at probably 3GHz or so, which puts Sparse Matrix FP4 performance at almost 2000 Teraflops or 83x faster than the Xbox Series X using FP16 (technically still not the biggest leap ever, but a very large number at least
Will have at least 4 CUs disabled for binning. Maybe.
winjer
Member
Density scaling is very limited for SRAM and Analog. Only logic cells are still scaling well with newer nodes.
For example, from N5 to N3, SRAM density improved only 5% and analog only 10%. And it will only get worse in future nodes.
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ExtendEmbraceExtinguish
Member
If consumer preference remains the same aka the same sequels/franchises/gaas titles with little room for newer games in the top 20 across pc/xbox/ps then the ecosystem war is about software. If cloud becomes mainstream in 15 years then it's fully about software.
Nintendo is fighting against its only weakness aka emulation and similar games (palworld ect..) hence why some don't see them as competition.
This is why the ecosystem war will be about software.
back to topic; hoping there are next gen games for nextbox on day1.
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reinking
Gold Member
I might be stuck in the old way but I believe the software war is going to be mainly in the PC space. SteamOS vs MS vs other launchers. Others would also be if someone like Apple decided to push past their mobile space or MS decides to push heavier into that space. As for other "software wars" I am not sure I follow. That has always been the case and why Sony gets a bad rap for buying exclusives.
On the streaming side, good luck. I don't see it being the main source for gaming in the next 15 years. Then again, maybe that is Microsoft's plan. Escalate the console prices in hopes that Sony will try to keep up and force people that can't afford it into streaming.
I do not mean this as an insult (I am one for the most part), but console gamers are pretty simple. They want a simple system. Insert a game, play a game. They are also pretty loyal so "just get a PC" isn't going to be the answer they are looking for even if it is simplified more than it is today. The issue Sony and Nintendo are going to run into as prices rise is the majority of console gamers are less likely to invest thousands into a single console.
I typed all of this only to wonder if I am missing your point.
Bry0
Member
That's pretty chungus for what it is.60% denser Logic, SRAM and Analog are pretty much the same.
Quoting myself from just a few days ago
Die size suggests something like 80 CUs at probably 3GHz or so, which puts Sparse Matrix FP4 performance at almost 2000 Teraflops or 83x faster than the Xbox Series X using FP16 (technically still not the biggest leap ever, but a very large number at least
Onironauta
Member
384 bit bus likely means 36 GB memory, assuming 3 GB modules
That's a lot, I can see current mid-high range GPUs (16 GB) becoming obsolete pretty fast despite their prices
That's a lot, I can see current mid-high range GPUs (16 GB) becoming obsolete pretty fast despite their prices
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Ah, thanks for the clarification. Speaking of Steam Deck, hopefully we hear some info on Deck 2 (and fingers crossed, a Steam console) in the near future.
Oddly pessimistic take for hardware still about 3 years out, but go off.
This is what I've been feeling for a while now, too. Dev time, team sizes, and budgets are the biggest bottlenecks to scope & scale in AAA dev these days. After that, I'd say it's probably over-reliance on parts of traditional rasterized pipeline that can be de-emphasized in favor of stuff like RT or path-tracing, so a lot of the big advances with 10th-gen hardware-wise, I'd expect to emphasize in those areas.
Raster performance can get better, but probably not expecting gargantuan jumps. I wouldn't be surprised if PS6 is roughly similar to PS5 Pro CU-wise in terms of count. But if it's going to be UDNA-based, the structure of those CUs could be very different, and quite a lot bigger, than PS5 Pro equivalents (just like how PS5 CUs were something like almost 50% larger than PS4 Pro ones IIRC).
Radical_3d
Member
There is: buy it before it increases its price
Can anyone explain me if SoC is the GPU and CPU together, same as APU, then what is a "GCD" and why you have to add it to the SoC/APU? Yes. I tried to google GCD and I'm more confused now.
Sebastian1295
Member
If this thing is over 1,000 dollars then it's dead on arrival. Also we've hit our peak graphically almost in terms of 4k and 120 fps. 8k is pointless and the diminishing returns are in full effect which means that graphical power will be wayyyyyy less noticeable then it used to be.
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Loxus
Member
Was doing some research and notice something.
Xbox codenames usually utilize a theme such as places or people/animal names.
Playstation codenames are themed around Shakespeare and the Pro versions around The Matrix.
I was beginning to think it may just be an AMD APU just like Strix Halo.
But then I remembered Playstation also used Latin names such as Orbis (Circle) for the PS4 Dev kit and the PS Vita (Life).
Following that, Magnus means (Great) in Latin. Which could be a Devkit codename and not necessarily the codename for the APU.
Shakespeare also talks about great in one of his lines.
Shakespeare
Twelfth Night (Act 2, Scene 5):
"Be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon 'em."
All this doesn't mean it's Playstation related though.
Xbox codenames usually utilize a theme such as places or people/animal names.
Playstation codenames are themed around Shakespeare and the Pro versions around The Matrix.
I was beginning to think it may just be an AMD APU just like Strix Halo.
But then I remembered Playstation also used Latin names such as Orbis (Circle) for the PS4 Dev kit and the PS Vita (Life).
Following that, Magnus means (Great) in Latin. Which could be a Devkit codename and not necessarily the codename for the APU.
Shakespeare also talks about great in one of his lines.
Shakespeare
Twelfth Night (Act 2, Scene 5):
"Be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon 'em."
All this doesn't mean it's Playstation related though.
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