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[Landr300]

If everything is affected by Moore's Law, a new PS Portable that plays PS5 games isn't going to be cheap.

There's still room for a next-gen leap with games looking like this during gameplay.

I not sure if the portable will play ps5 games

The truth is sony made a mistake, ps5 should never have existed without a cheap less powerful alternative

Now i don't know what they gonna do, but launch an portable ps5 will be more expensive than the ps5 itself and launch a cheaper portable won't play ps5 games

One thing is for sure, generations can't continue to exist any longer, unless that somehow they find a way to revive moore law

 

[dano1]

$999 no disc

Day one

 

[dano1]

Where are the games?

You buy them on the PlayStation store …

 

[mckmas8808]

Introducing mid-generation refreshes always had the risk of introducing uncertainty for when a consumer should jump in. I've owned every PlayStation up until the PS5 Pro and when it was announced, I just thought to myself, "I'll wait for the PS6". But now, with the software roadmap problem you mentioned, I'm thinking I might just wait for the PS6 Pro and who knows what that thought process will evolve into.

Your talking 2032 for PS6 Pro. No way you're wait that long. Let's be honest.

 

[bender]

Your talking 2032 for PS6 Pro. No way you're wait that long. Let's be honest.

I'd honestly be fine if I were still on my PS4 Pro.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yeah but Ai is no magic bullet, I really hope they dont shirk on the compute too much like the PS5 Pro. If they put in a 2.5x bump in gpu compute its not going to deliver much of a leap even with ai outside of improved image quality and non pt gi.

A 30 TF PS6 with FSR4+ would definitely be good enough for Full path tracing. But without a ZEN6 CPU it may only do it at 30fps.

 

[Loxus]

I not sure if the portable will play ps5 games

The truth is sony made a mistake, ps5 should never have existed without a cheap less powerful alternative

Now i don't know what they gonna do, but launch an portable ps5 will be more expensive than the ps5 itself and launch a cheaper portable won't play ps5 games

One thing is for sure, generations can't continue to exist any longer, unless that somehow they find a way to revive moore law

Thank heavens most of us don't run Sony, it would surely go bankrupt with a year.

 

[mckmas8808]

I not sure if the portable will play ps5 games

The truth is sony made a mistake, ps5 should never have existed without a cheap less powerful alternative

Now i don't know what they gonna do, but launch an portable ps5 will be more expensive than the ps5 itself and launch a cheaper portable won't play ps5 games

One thing is for sure, generations can't continue to exist any longer, unless that somehow they find a way to revive moore law

It's so funnny that EVERYTHING you said here is wrong. You want them to follow MS with the Series S, but ignore why that's been bad for them. The people have spoken and choose the Sony's PS5 ideas.

Plus.....how do you know a portable PS5 couldn't play PS5 games? The Switch 2 will be able to play Cyberpunk 2077. Who's to say a portable PS5 that comes out in the Fall of 2027 can't play GTA6?

I'd honestly be fine if I were still on my PS4 Pro.

No way you believe that. The PS4 doesn't even have a SSD. It's a platter HDD having console. Nobody wants to go back to those days.

 

[Landr300]

It's so funnny that EVERYTHING you said here is wrong. You want them to follow MS with the Series S, but ignore why that's been bad for them. The people have spoken and choose the Sony's PS5 ideas.

Plus.....how do you know a portable PS5 couldn't play PS5 games? The Switch 2 will be able to play Cyberpunk 2077. Who's to say a portable PS5 that comes out in the Fall of 2027 can't play GTA6?



No way you believe that. The PS4 doesn't even have a SSD. It's a platter HDD having console. Nobody wants to go back to those days.

God, you didn't understand a word of what i said lol

I never said that a portable won't have the capability of play ps5 games, i said that would be EXPENSIVE if he does, even more if sony want it to have backwards compatibility with the ps5 because it would have to be an x86 portable with the specs close to ps5 to avoid incompatibility

About the ps5 sales in relation to Xbox, people have buying playstations over Xboxs for a very long time no matter what, if sony had launched a ps5 less powerful and expensive, not only they could possibly have sell even more than they did now but secure a future portable by making devs scaled down their games in order to run on the less powerful ps5

Do you get now?

 

[Landr300]

Thank heavens most of us don't run Sony, it would surely go bankrupt with a year.

Yeah, Sony is amazing right now, no games, ps5 pro possible tanked in sales, cancelling games right and left, closing studios and investing in gaas with possible the worst failure in gaming history and another looming on the horizon

Everything is perfect

 

[winjer]

God, you didn't understand a word of what i said lol

I never said that a portable won't have the capability of play ps5 games, i said that would be EXPENSIVE if he does, even more if sony want it to have backwards compatibility with the ps5 because it would have to be an x86 portable with the specs close to ps5 to avoid incompatibility

About the ps5 sales in relation to Xbox, people have buying playstations over Xboxs for a very long time no matter what, if sony had launched a ps5 less powerful and expensive, not only they could possibly have sell even more than they did now but secure a future portable by making devs scaled down their games in order to run on the less powerful ps5

Do you get now?

Microsoft tried that with the Series S and that thing is hated by a lot of devs and gamers.
Sony should not make the same mistake.

The thing about a portable system, is that it doesn't need to run at resolutions as high as the PS5. Especially if it ha a good upscaler, such as DLSS4 or FSR4.
So Sony could make a portable system, with the same CPU, but a smaller GPU, with fewer units, to run games at lower resolutions. Similar to what the Switch does.

 

[Landr300]

Microsoft tried that with the Series S and that thing is hated by a lot of devs and gamers.
Sony should not make the same mistake.

The thing about a portable system, is that it doesn't need to run at resolutions as high as the PS5. Especially if it ha a good upscaler, such as DLSS4 or FSR4.
So Sony could make a portable system, with the same CPU, but a smaller GPU, with fewer units, to run games at lower resolutions. Similar to what the Switch does.

First, wasn't hated by gamers, it is hated primally by the devs, the same people who been launching broken games everywhere because they don't want to to optimize their games

This industry needs to force them to do or prepare to keep launching more expensive consoles because things aren't going to be cheaper for now on


Second, everyone expects that a portable will be less powerful than a ps5 or in the same ballpark but even them will be more expensive than a ps5 because of the screen, even if they subsidize the console wich they aren't fans of doing anymore

So, they would need to make an even less powerful portable to make the portable be close in price or possible cheaper than a ps5

 

[winjer]

First, wasn't hated by gamers, it is hated primally by the devs, the same people who been launching broken games everywhere because they don't want to to optimize their games

This industry needs to force them to do or prepare to keep launching more expensive consoles because things aren't going to be cheaper for now on

That concept is very flawed. And the reality is that the Series S is causing too much problems. Most games for it are compromised. And some devs even prefer to skip the Series consoles, and not deal with the Series S.
And if the concept of a cheaper console was so good, then why is the PS5 outselling the Series S/X by a huge margin.
The reality is that few gamers care about it.

Second, everyone expects that a portable will be less powerful than a ps5 or in the same ballpark but even them will be more expensive than a ps5 because of the screen, even if they subsidize the console wich they aren't fans of doing anymore

So, they would need to make an even cheaper portable to make the portable be close in price or possible cheaper than a ps5

But a portable system can render at 720p on a small screen and still look good enough. It doesn't need to have a big GPU, and cooling and power delivery. And this saves costs.
Yes, the screen and battery would make it more expensive. So in the end, it could end up being as expensive as the base PS5. And it could still be an excellent gaming system on the go.

 

[NT80]

I not sure if the portable will play ps5 games

The truth is sony made a mistake, ps5 should never have existed without a cheap less powerful alternative

Now i don't know what they gonna do, but launch an portable ps5 will be more expensive than the ps5 itself and launch a cheaper portable won't play ps5 games

One thing is for sure, generations can't continue to exist any longer, unless that somehow they find a way to revive moore law

PS5 barely moves things forward as it is. It's been the PS4 pro plus for much of the time, there shouldn't be an even weaker system. The Series S seems to have more and more issues as time goes on. There isn't even a point in a new generation unless it's a decent step up at a reasonable price.

 

[Loxus]

Yeah, Sony is amazing right now, no games, ps5 pro possible tanked in sales, cancelling games right and left, closing studios and investing in gaas with possible the worst failure in gaming history and another looming on the horizon

Everything is perfect

1st of all, the PS5 has games.

The P55 Pro wasn't meant to sale a 100 million.

When a game is canceled, the files are still there to be used later on.

Closing and opening studios is something that happens all the time. Look it up.

GAAS is a very good investment. You can generate way more revenue from then than single player games. I play them all the time, I don't get the hate.

Really and truly, you just hate Sony and gaming in general.

 

[Landr300]

That concept is very flawed

PS5 barely moves things forward as it is. It's been the PS4 pro plus for much of the time, there shouldn't be an even weaker system. The Series S seems to have more and more issues as time goes on. There isn't even a point in a new generation unless it's a decent step up at a reasonable price.

The problem is the devs

the series s has issues? With devs launching games like monster hunter wilds that plays bad even on 2k GPUs its obvious that anything worse will be bad

People need to stop blaming hardware, its the people who make the games, the problem is the devs

Just look to Metroid prime 4 running on portable machine from 2015 and still manage to look amazing and runs very well

 

[bender]

No way you believe that. The PS4 doesn't even have a SSD. It's a platter HDD having console. Nobody wants to go back to those days.

The games I've spent the most time on PS5 are either cross-generation or just PS4 releases. I might be playing inferior versions of those games, but without the PS5 as a comparison point, that's kind of a moot point. With all due respect to Demon's Souls (I prefer the original) and Returnal, the one game I'd really missing out on is Astrobot.

 

[Landr300]

1st of all, the PS5 has games.

The P55 Pro wasn't meant to sale a 100 million.

When a game is canceled, the files are still there to be used later on.

Closing and opening studios is something that happens all the time. Look it up.

GAAS is a very good investment. You can generate way more revenue from then than single player games. I play them all the time, I don't get the hate.

Really and truly, you just hate Sony and gaming in general.

I play primally on pc, don't even have any console, not a fanboy for any company

I'm Just talking about the fact of moore law's death and how to adjust to it, going all in with the best of the best of hardware is just not the best move right now

And yes the ps5 pro wasn't supposed to sell 100 million units but it wasn't supposed to tank either

Remember that there was a talking about sony testing the waters for the ps6 with the ps5 pro price, well, if that's the case they have their answer now

And no, closing Studios and canceling games at the level of sony is doing it's not normal


Gaas could generate more money than single player if you manage to make them successful one, which is very hard because they compete with one another and people tend to stick to bigger ones.

In general is a bad investment and the state of sony proves this, only one of the many their tried could be considered successful and even then nothing in the level of Fortnite or the bigger ones

 

[winjer]

The problem is the devs

the series s has issues? With devs launching games like monster hunter wilds that plays bad even on 2k GPUs its obvious that anything worse will be bad

People need to stop blaming hardware, its the people who make the games, the problem is the devs

Just look to Metroid prime 4 running on portable machine from 2015 and still manage to look amazing and runs very well

Devs might share some blame, but the Series S requires too much of a compromise for modern games, made for the PS5, PC and Series X.

And that comparison to the Switch is very flawed, as those games are way too behind in terms of graphics.

 

[Landr300]

Devs might share some blame, but the Series S requires too much of a compromise for modern games, made for the PS5, PC and Series X.

And that comparison to the Switch is very flawed, as those games are way too behind in terms of graphic

What do you mean by being far behind in graphics? If you talking in terms of using moderns techniques that may be the case but it's not about that, it's about how it appears to the average gamer

If the game appears to be beautiful even if they don't use the lastest techs is that bad?

 

[winjer]

What do you mean by being far behind in graphics? If you talking in terms of using moderns techniques that may be the case but it's not about that, it's about how it appears to the average gamer

If the game appears to be beautiful even if they don't use the lastest techs is that bad?

Yes, the Switch is very far behind the PS5 and SeriesX.

 

[DinoD]

Then the PS6 better not be $700 at launch.

hehehehe.

 

[DinoD]

Devs might share some blame, but the Series S requires too much of a compromise for modern games, made for the PS5, PC and Series X.

And that comparison to the Switch is very flawed, as those games are way too behind in terms of graphics.

If nothing else. Series S showed Sony which way not to go with PS6.

 

[Landr300]

If nothing else. Series S showed Sony which way not to go with PS6.

Why, because is selling less? Do you think that has anything to do with the console being less powerful?

If Microsoft had only launched the series x they would be out of console hardware by now, just look at who's selling better between the two

 

[NT80]

The problem is the devs

the series s has issues? With devs launching games like monster hunter wilds that plays bad even on 2k GPUs its obvious that anything worse will be bad

People need to stop blaming hardware, its the people who make the games, the problem is the devs

Just look to Metroid prime 4 running on portable machine from 2015 and still manage to look amazing and runs very well

I don't agree that Metroid Prime 4 looks amazing and the last thing the next gen is to be held back again. That's all that's gonna happen.

 

[Landr300]

I don't agree that Metroid Prime 4 looks amazing and the last thing the next gen is to be held back again. That's all that's gonna happen.

Held back who? There is no holding back, the devs are using those consoles to make their lives easy, not to make games better

 

[DinoD]

Why, because is selling less? Do you think that has anything to do with the console being less powerful?

If Microsoft had only launched the series x they would be out of console hardware by now, just look at who's selling better between the two

They are out of console hardware by most metrics. We re talking Sony here. How many people would have updated to PS5 , had it specs at level of PS4 pro? Sony made right decision to release only one, relatively powerful console for 2020. That was my whole point. Nothing to do with MS. They had different strategy and look where it got them.

 

[memoryman3]

They are out of console hardware by most metrics. We re talking Sony here. How many people would have updated to PS5 , had it specs at level of PS4 pro? Sony made right decision to release only one, relatively powerful console for 2020. That was my whole point. Nothing to do with MS. They had different strategy and look where it got them.

Except that Microsoft is still making custom silicon for their next hardware where even Nintendo has long since given up on doing so. Xbox Series is also approaching 40 million consoles

What makes you think going multiplatform means leaving console hardware? There are more reasons to buy a console than exclusives.

 

[FireFly]

Except that Microsoft is still making custom silicon for their next hardware where even Nintendo has long since given up on doing so. Xbox Series is also approaching 40 million consoles

The T239 used in the Switch 2 is a custom chip.

 

[Liopleurodon]

How many RTX 5090s is that?

 

[Badlucktroll]

 

[Landr300]

They are out of console hardware by most metrics. We re talking Sony here. How many people would have updated to PS5 , had it specs at level of PS4 pro? Sony made right decision to release only one, relatively powerful console for 2020. That was my whole point. Nothing to do with MS. They had different strategy and look where it got them.

a lot of people would've upgrade if there exclusive games to a entry level ps5, forget about foruns, most people dont care about specs, they care only if there is games or not

 

[mckmas8808]

About the ps5 sales in relation to Xbox, people have buying playstations over Xboxs for a very long time no matter what, if sony had launched a ps5 less powerful and expensive, not only they could possibly have sell even more than they did now but secure a future portable by making devs scaled down their games in order to run on the less powerful ps5

Do you get now?

NO! That again would be a terrible idea. The PS5 is selling AMAZING now as is. No way should they have hurt any game that would be released in 2024 or 2025, just so that it can run on some mystery handheld device in 2027. Again that's Xbox logic and we know they don't know what they are doing.

Nintendo has done a great job over the last 8-9 years and Sony has done a great job with Playstation for the last 13 years. Neither of them should do something they will jeopardize their visions.

 

[Landr300]

NO! That again would be a terrible idea. The PS5 is selling AMAZING now as is. No way should they have hurt any game that would be released in 2024 or 2025, just so that it can run on some mystery handheld device in 2027. Again that's Xbox logic and we know they don't know what they are doing.

Nintendo has done a great job over the last 8-9 years and Sony has done a great job with Playstation for the last 13 years. Neither of them should do something they will jeopardize their visions.

No hurt, devs are just using the dumb hardware enthusiasts as way to not optimize their games, lying that weaker hardware would limit the generation

In reality they just don't want to optimize their games

 

[Landr300]

NO! That again would be a terrible idea. The PS5 is selling AMAZING now as is. No way should they have hurt any game that would be released in 2024 or 2025, just so that it can run on some mystery handheld device in 2027. Again that's Xbox logic and we know they don't know what they are doing.

Nintendo has done a great job over the last 8-9 years and Sony has done a great job with Playstation for the last 13 years. Neither of them should do something they will jeopardize their visions.

And we don't know if the ps5 is selling that well, there is a huge gap between units shipped and actual salles

Sony has yet to clarify this

 

[Loxus]

And we don't know if the ps5 is selling that well, there is a huge gap between units shipped and actual salles

Sony has yet to clarify this

Can you tell us the number between the gap?

 

[Ashamam]

Can you tell us the number between the gap?

There is a misalignment of public figures for sell-in and sell through. I ran it through chatGPT a few times, poking and prodding errors and got this trying to align the dates for 30 April 2024. Cbf'ed doing more than a basic fact check but starting data points are correct. The 'huge' difference at that point was apparently 2.9 million units in the sales channels.

Based on the adjusted and clarified estimates, here's the total cumulative sell-in (units shipped to retailers) for the PlayStation 5 as of 30 April 2024:

---

Estimated Total Sell-in (as of 30 April 2024):

~58.9 million units

---

Recap of Logic:

• Confirmed sell-through (to consumers): 56 million (as of 30 Apr 2024)
• Confirmed total sell-in (as of 31 Dec 2024): 74.9 million
• We back-calculated from the December 2024 total, subtracting realistic shipment estimates for:
  • Q2 FY24 (Jul–Sep): ~3 million
  • Q3 FY24 (Oct–Dec): 9.5 million (confirmed)
  • Q1 FY24 (Apr–Jun): ~3.5 million

74.9M – 3.5M – 3M – 9.5M = ~58.9 million

 

[Loxus]

There is a misalignment of public figures for sell-in and sell through. I ran it through chatGPT a few times, poking and prodding errors and got this trying to align the dates for 30 April 2024. Cbf'ed doing more than a basic fact check but starting data points are correct. The 'huge' difference at that point was apparently 2.9 million units in the sales channels.

Which is actually the same as the reported 75m sold.

PS5 Has Best Holiday Ever, Overall Sales Pass 75 million
POSTED: FEB 13, 2025
PlayStation 5 just had its biggest quarter yet, selling 9.5 million units between October and December 2024.

That brings overall PS5 sales to 75 million, and bumps Sony's gaming business by 37% compared to the same period last year.


I'm here trying to figure what the huge gap is the other guy was talking about. I can't remember Sony mmentioning any number above 75m.

 

[Ashamam]

'm here trying to figure what the huge gap is the other guy was talking about.

From what I can see there isn't one. I mean I have no knowledge as to what you would expect to be in channel at any particular moment, but given it appears to be less than a quarters stock it seems reasonable, although I would have thought four to six weeks would be more efficient.

 

[Landr300]

I'm here trying to figure what the huge gap is the other guy was talking about. I can't remember Sony mmentioning any number above 75m.

i was taking the numbers from the Wikipedia which i was assuming that was the last oficial numbers, which are 75m shipped and 50m sold, this would give a 25m diference between sold and shipped

this is a giant gap i suppose

 

[Loxus]

i was taking the numbers from the Wikipedia which i was assuming that was the last oficial numbers, which are 75m shipped and 50m sold, this would give a 25m diference between sold and shipped

this is a giant gap i suppose

Did you not notice that 50m is from December 20, 2023?

 

[DinoD]

Thanks to Landr300. This thread has completely gone off topic. .

 

[DinoD]

Sony should set more budget for a significant CPU and bandwidth upgrade/optimisation for PS6. Increase RAM to at least 24 gb. A competent/decent GPU , combined with good AI upscaling should nicely cover the rest. The end result should be guaranteed minimum of 60 fps with a stable image at upscaled 4k output.

Edit: No more pretty looking games with an unacceptable frame rate drops. UE5 looking at ya. Make games game worlds smarter with upgraded physics.

 

[winjer]

Sony should set more budget for a significant CPU and bandwidth upgrade/optimisation for PS6. Increase RAM to at least 24 gb. A competent/decent GPU , combined with good AI upscaling should nicely cover the rest. The end result should be guaranteed minimum of 60 fps with a stable image at upscaled 4k output.

Sony could have already done that with the Pro.
AMD has the 3DVcache system, which is just a chunk of cache, made in N6 that helps a lot with cache misses and reduces memory accesses.
It has done wonders for Ryzen and RDNA, and because it's made in N6, it's relatively cheap.
It Probably would cost 20$, which is not that much on a 700$ console.

 

[DinoD]

Sony could have already done that with the Pro.
AMD has the 3DVcache system, which is just a chunk of cache, made in N6 that helps a lot with cache misses and reduces memory accesses.
It has done wonders for Ryzen and RDNA, and because it's made in N6, it's relatively cheap.
It Probably would cost 20$, which is not that much on a 700$ console.

You are 100% right, but as per their presentation. They stuck with upgrade logic from PS4->PS4 pro. Upgrade graphics. It makes sense since the target for devs would still be base PS5.
Regards

 

[KeplerL2]

Sony could have already done that with the Pro.
AMD has the 3DVcache system, which is just a chunk of cache, made in N6 that helps a lot with cache misses and reduces memory accesses.
It has done wonders for Ryzen and RDNA, and because it's made in N6, it's relatively cheap.
It Probably would cost 20$, which is not that much on a 700$ console.

SoIC is not viable for mass market devices and $20 is quite a lot for a console BOM.

 

[winjer]

SoIC is not viable for mass market devices and $20 is quite a lot for a console BOM.

Not for a premium console that costs 700$.
And the Pro is starved for memory bandwidth.

 

[KeplerL2]

Not for a premium console that costs 700$.
And the Pro is starved for memory bandwidth.

Do you realize how many cuts they made on the PS5 Pro to hit that price point? Using Zen2 instead of Zen4, using the smaller VGPR design, using the largest SE config to maximize GPU floorplan efficiency, etc...

 

[winjer]

Do you realize how many cuts they made on the PS5 Pro to hit that price point? Using Zen2 instead of Zen4, using the smaller VGPR design, using the largest SE config to maximize GPU floorplan efficiency, etc...

Keeping Zen2 and RDNA2 shaders is meant to keep compatibility. Not to save costs.
And in the end, they have a GPU that has 67% more compute units, but memory that is only 28% faster. Resulting in most games being around 30% faster on the Pro, with same quality settings.
The reality is that the Pro's GPU is heavily bottlenecked by it's memory bandwidth.
For only 20$, Sony could have a console that would perform much faster.

 

[DinoD]

Keeping Zen2 and RDNA2 shaders is meant to keep compatibility. Not to save costs.
And in the end, they have a GPU that has 67% more compute units, but memory that is only 28% faster. Resulting in most games being around 30% faster on the Pro, with same quality settings.
The reality is that the Pro's GPU is heavily bottlenecked by it's memory bandwidth.
For only 20$, Sony could have a console that would perform much faster.

It almost feels like they intentionally didn't want to make it much faster, irrespective of $20-40 BOM increase. Or, as Kepler pointed out. Perhaps they started with the objective to keep to certain die size from the cost perspective. Then allocated the available estate to increased number of CU's for AI and supposed RDNA4 RT.
Which would have left no space for extra cache to increase the bandwidth. I actually don't think Sony set/prioritised bandwidth as one of their design goals for PS5 Pro. Which is a shame.