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[bonchooski]

as opposed to the status of being a champion in a promotion where Kimbo Slice and DADA 5000 headlined a card?

True, but if you are leaving UFC to go to Bellator, chances are you left to make more money not fight for a title.

1. Get overpaid to sign with Bellator
2. Make more money on sponsors than in UFC
3. Retire after a few years cause your lifespan in the sport is short

 

[parrotbeak]

I bet you guys think servers should get living wages instead of only getting paid if customers think they deserve it.

 

[Maklershed]

The sponsorship thing is what boggles my mind. It'd be such an easy thing to do to have let the fighters keep their sponsors and make a nice pay day from it and the UFC would barely be affected. If it weren't for that this whole fighter union thing probably wouldn't have come up .. or at least not as soon.

I bet you guys think servers should get living wages instead of only getting paid if customers think they deserve it.

Well it IS like that in every country but the US, right?

 

[parrotbeak]

Well it IS like that in every country but the US, right?

Thank you, Tim. USA! USA! USA!

Got your bonus right here buddy!

 

[broz0rs]

But what about those big locker room payouts from Dana?

the funny thing about that is we don't ever hear about those anymore after the Reebok deal. besides that, no fighter has ever gave an example of how much Dana pays for his locker room bonuses. Dana used to boast about how these bonuses were more than what the fighters were receiving, which just seems like smoke and mirrors to me.

 

[Mental Atrophy]

Incentive is why. They want to encourage finishes and wars because that's what the fans want. Which makes some sense if only to avoid Fitch type tactics.

The problem is that the standard pay is way too low across the board and that's exacerbated by the sponsor restrictions.

That's not why--that's why performance bonuses exist, which are publicly disclosed to motivate fighters. The backroom bonuses are obscured because athletic commissions legally require purse to be disclosed. By putting a portion of a fighter's pay outside of their purse, they're able to keep that pay a secret. This is important because it diminishes the bargaining power a fighter has, by obscuring their ability to determine their worth. In the NBA, where players are unionized, the owners are legally expected to provide that information to the players. This means that when a player and his agent are working on a new contract, they have equal knowledge with the owners and can bargain a fair price. The UFC profits by keeping its "contractors" in the dark.

 

[Jest Chillin]

That's not why--that's why performance bonuses exist, which are publicly disclosed to motivate fighters. The backroom bonuses are obscured because athletic commissions legally require purse to be disclosed. By putting a portion of a fighter's pay outside of their purse, they're able to keep that pay a secret. This is important because it diminishes the bargaining power a fighter has, by obscuring their ability to determine their worth. In the NBA, where players are unionized, the owners are legally expected to provide that information to the players. This means that when a player and his agent are working on a new contract, they have equal knowledge with the owners and can bargain a fair price. The UFC profits by keeping its "contractors" in the dark.

Benson Henderson would know what his own locker room bonuses are in addition to his standard pay and likelihood of performance bonuses. He would also know what his sponsors would pay if he could wear them. He can then weigh that against Bellators offer and judge what makes sense for him. He doesn't need to know what other LW's in the UFC get. His value isn't relative to theirs. Bellator isn't weighing Benson vs Nate Diaz or whoever else because they're not filling a role in a larger team or looking to fit inside a salary cap.

So.. I'm not really seeing how what you've said fits.

 

[Mental Atrophy]

Benson Henderson would know what his own locker room bonuses are in addition to his standard pay and likelihood of performance bonuses. He would also know what his sponsors would pay if he could wear them. He can then weigh that against Bellators offer and judge what makes sense for him. He doesn't need to know what other LW's in the UFC get. His value isn't relative to theirs. Bellator isn't weighing Benson vs Nate Diaz or whoever else because they're not filling a role in a larger team or looking to fit inside a salary cap.

So.. I'm not really seeing how what you've said fits.

Only knowing what your previous pay isn't adequate information to determine your actual worth if your previous pay isn't good enough because it's based on limited information. Benson doesn't know how much revenue the UFC gets and he doesn't know how much is budgeted for other fighters. When in negotiations, he is only competing with himself.

 

[RBelong2Us]

our savior and Gods soldier, the great Yoel Romero looks like is returning for 205.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Only knowing what your previous pay isn't adequate information to determine your actual worth if your previous pay isn't good enough because it's based on limited information. Benson doesn't know how much revenue the UFC gets and he doesn't know how much is budgeted for other fighters. When in negotiations, he is only competing with himself.

Again, You're viewing this through the scope of team based sports where a players worth is guaged against other players who have similar talents and fulfill the same role on a team.

MMA doesn't work that way. UFC to Bellator is more like NBA to ABL or Overseas Leagues rather than Lakers to Kings or Hawks.

Bellator is offering spots to names to get their brand more recognition. They're not filling limited roster slots to comprise a team.

 

[Mental Atrophy]

Again, You're viewing this through the scope of team based sports where a players worth is guaged against other players who have similar talents and fulfill the same role on a team.

MMA doesn't work that way. UFC to Bellator is more like NBA to ABL or Overseas Leagues rather than Lakers to Kings or Hawks.

Bellator is offering spots to names to get their brand more recognition. They're not filling limited roster slots to comprise a team.

I don't know why you keep talking about Bellator, because I'm not talking about Bellator. I'm talking about why the UFC willfully obscures fighter pay to increase their own bargaining power. You say there are backroom deals because it incentivizes high-performance, but actual performance bonuses already exist and are announced in press conferences. Backroom deals are under-the-table and not public. By keeping the pay some fighters get undisclosed, other fighters are led to believe that the money doesn't exist, or at best don't know how much of it exists. If you don't know what you're bargaining over, you can't come to a fair agreement. If the UFC doesn't tell you how much money they made off of your pay-per-view, then you can't fairly assess your value to the company. If the UFC doesn't tell you how much Fighter B, C, and D are getting paid, then you can't fairly assess your value to the company. The UFC holds all of the cards by design, and this won't change unless the fighters do something about it.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I don't know why you keep talking about Bellator, because I'm not talking about Bellator. I'm talking about why the UFC willfully obscures fighter pay to increase their own bargaining power. You say there are backroom deals because it incentivizes high-performance, but actual performance bonuses already exist and are announced in press conferences. Backroom deals are under-the-table and not public. By keeping the pay some fighters get undisclosed, other fighters are led to believe that the money doesn't exist, or at best don't know how much of it exists. If you don't know what you're bargaining over, you can't come to a fair agreement. If the UFC doesn't tell you how much money they made off of your pay-per-view, then you can't fairly assess your value to the company. If the UFC doesn't tell you how much Fighter B, C, and D are getting paid, then you can't fairly assess your value to the company. The UFC holds all of the cards by design, and this won't change unless the fighters do something about it.

I bring it up because that's what the discussion was about when you entered into it. Fighters didn't use to voluntarily leave the UFC when they were still prime contenders for less known organizations.

Fighters talk to each other and Dana has admitted to the locker room bonuses. Fight camps and trainers talk to each other. Managers talk to each other. PPV buy numbers are regularly leaked.

The UFC's power lies in being the biggest game in town. It's damn near monopolized the sport. Locker room bonuses don't wield the power you think they do. They certainly don't wield more power than the sponsorship money potential. Those bonuses have existed for years. The shit official pay has existed for years with few exceptions. Yet the talk of unionizing has only seriously cropped up after the sponsorship change. There is a reason for that.

 

[Weckum]

our savior and Gods soldier, the great Yoel Romero looks like is returning for 205.

Time for the other 205'ers to start shitting themselves this time round.

 

[PaulKersey]

Time for the other 205'ers to start shitting themselves this time round.

I think he meant UFC 205 lol.

I look forward to it. Love watching Yoel.

 

[RBelong2Us]

yes yes FOR 205....

in other news Luke Cuckhold is apperantly giving the pipe to Demi Lovato.

I feel like Luke is the trophy in that relationship....

but for someone that just got put to sleep by one eyed Count you cant be a chooser.

 

[alpinestars1980]

yes yes FOR 205....

in other news Luke Cuckhold is apperantly giving the pipe to Demi Lovato.

I feel like Luke is the trophy in that relationship....

but for someone that just got put to sleep by one eyed Count you cant be a chooser.

Dang, I'd like to be a trophy if that was the one that had me.

 

[Weckum]

I think he meant UFC 205 lol.

I look forward to it. Love watching Yoel.

Oh damn, lol.

Still, always good to have a Soldier of God duking it out in the octagon.

 

[parrotbeak]

I thought he meant Romero was going to take 2:05 breaks between rounds.

 

[RBelong2Us]

Dang, I'd like to be a trophy if that was the one that had me.

Demi Lovato is an interesting case...that chick during her breaks from working out for her concert tours must be a hefty chick.


speaking of people im excited to see fight again, Korean Zombie making his way back soon?

Interesting match up this weekend too with Condit and Maia. Love Condit but im taking Maia with the upset. Stylistically an awful match up for Condit. His TDD is always suspect and hes going against the most relentless Mfer. Condit has to really tag him up and get him to hestitste on his attempts.

 

[Eanan]

Make or break for Pettis tomorrow?

Going 0-4 in approximately a year will surely bring up some retirement/being cut questions.

I dont think he is mentally strong enough anymore

 

[zewone]

UFC will not cut Pettis because he would just on to bring more attention to Bellator when they picked him up.

 

[alpinestars1980]

Demi Lovato is an interesting case...that chick during her breaks from working out for her concert tours must be a hefty chick.


speaking of people im excited to see fight again, Korean Zombie making his way back soon?

Interesting match up this weekend too with Condit and Maia. Love Condit but im taking Maia with the upset. Stylistically an awful match up for Condit. His TDD is always suspect and hes going against the most relentless Mfer. Condit has to really tag him up and get him to hestitste on his attempts.

Got a little meat on her bones? Even better.

 

[Weckum]

Got a little meat on her bones? Even better.

I actually think she used to have an eating disorder.

 

[Next]

Maia got mount on Rory and couldn't do shit. I suspect this fight might go the same way, dominate first, gas, then get knocked out. It's a 5 rounder too right?

 

[Mental Atrophy]

I'm so out of touch with the kids. I had to look up who Demi Lovato was.

 

[alpinestars1980]

I actually think she used to have an eating disorder.

Yeah, I think you're right.

I'm so out of touch with the kids. I had to look up who Demi Lovato was.

Haha, if my 13 year old son didn't tell me I'm not sure I'd know.

 

[N° 2048]

I actually think she used to have an eating disorder.

She did as early as the age of twelve, due to bullying in school.

 

[nilbog21]

Anyone here use the ufc fight pass? Are you able to watch any ufc fight on demand? How extensive is the library? Would be cool to be able to go through every nate diaz or mcgregor fight

 

[Guru-Guru]

Anyone here use the ufc fight pass? Are you able to watch any ufc fight on demand? How extensive is the library? Would be cool to be able to go through every nate diaz or mcgregor fight

Yeah, I use Fight Pass. You get access to the ENTIRE library of UFC fights, as well as a ton of other former promotions (PRIDE, Strikeforce, Invicta, Pancrase, etc.) There are usually 2 (occasionally 3) UFC Fight Night cards a month which you can watch on Fight Pass live. For PPV (numbered events) you get the prelims, but have to buy the main event. However, usually a couple weeks after a PPV airs it gets added to the Fight Pass library, then you can watch it. I'm not sure how long you've been watching MMA, but it is really great if you are new to the sport. For example, they would likely have a Conor McGregor collection with all of his UFC fights, as well as fights from other promotions that you can go through and watch all of them. I'm starting to sound like a shill, but they also improved the interface dramatically about a month or so ago, so now it is way easier to use/find specific fights you are looking for.

Conor vs Diaz I will be on Fight Pass, but you will probably have to wait a couple weeks for Conor vs Diaz II to get added.

 

[Chesskid1]

told me mom about paige van zant fighting tomorrow on fox, shes a huge DWTS fan so shes watching. shes going to hate it.

 

[juliushandle]

told me mom about paige van zant fighting tomorrow on fox, shes a huge DWTS fan so shes watching. shes going to hate it.

Would love to see a reaction video of DWTS fans watching Paige fight. She's one of the most violent female fighters that I've watched.

 

[Guru-Guru]

I feel like Maia would have a fair chance beating Condit in a 3 round fight, but I think he's gonna fair poorly during a 5 rounder. What do you homies think?

 

[parrotbeak]

I think Condit gets subbed in 1st or 2nd.

 

[Guru-Guru]

I think Condit gets subbed in 1st or 2nd.

Yeah, I guess I am forgetting Condit doesn't have that good TDD.

 

[parrotbeak]

I hope he wins somehow but I'm seeing him in defense mode on his back for most of the fight.

 

[PaulKersey]

Condit by KO.

And on Bellator tonight... the ref during this AJ McKee fight was trash. AJ grabbed the fence HARD many times and NOTHING was said.

 

[alpinestars1980]

Condit by KO.

And on Bellator tonight... the ref during this AJ McKee fight was trash. AJ grabbed the fence HARD many times and NOTHING was said.

Must be a Rainbow Six dev.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

They still got the training wheels on Michael Page. Dude's fighting another straight up can. Pathetic. Dude trying his best to be Bellator's Conor Mac but it ain't happening.

 

[Chesskid1]

mvp is like a foot taller lol

 

[juliushandle]

J-Lo broke up with her younger boyfriend cuz of the Diaz McGregor fight. Ahahahhaahaa.

Story is she wanted him to attend a fund raiser and he said fuk that, I'm watching UFC 202. She dumped him for it. Good for him. He'll get paid a couple million to keep his mouth shut and not write a book.

 

[Guru-Guru]

They still got the training wheels on Michael Page. Dude's fighting another straight up can. Pathetic. Dude trying his best to be Bellator's Conor Mac but it ain't happening.

He's 29 already too. Gonna spend his whole career crushing cans.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

lmao @ the size difference between Benson and Pitbull.

 

[PaulKersey]

What a trash end to a decent card. Granted, that main event was as bad as Jimmy Smith's facial hair.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

lol Pitbull didn't even look like he was in pain he was just like "Nah i'm done". That was strange.

 

[Chesskid1]

for the fighters who leave bellator to join UFC, what's their main reasoning?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

for the fighters who leave bellator to join UFC, what's their main reasoning?

Money.

 

[alpinestars1980]

for the fighters who leave bellator to join UFC, what's their main reasoning?

Money.

I think it's freedom and flexibility above simply money.

 

[Weckum]

Tonight's card is actually pretty great (tomorrow for you US peeps):

My picks. Pettis vs Oliveira can be a great scrap. Lauzon vs Miller will hopefully be a class in BJJ.

Demian Maia vs. Carlos Condit
Anthony Pettis vs. Charles Oliveira
Paige VanZant vs. Bec Rawlings
Joe Lauzon vs. Jim Miller
Sam Alvey vs. Kevin Casey


Also, KING KEVIN CASEY IS BACK!

 

[nilbog21]

Yeah, I use Fight Pass. You get access to the ENTIRE library of UFC fights, as well as a ton of other former promotions (PRIDE, Strikeforce, Invicta, Pancrase, etc.) There are usually 2 (occasionally 3) UFC Fight Night cards a month which you can watch on Fight Pass live. For PPV (numbered events) you get the prelims, but have to buy the main event. However, usually a couple weeks after a PPV airs it gets added to the Fight Pass library, then you can watch it. I'm not sure how long you've been watching MMA, but it is really great if you are new to the sport. For example, they would likely have a Conor McGregor collection with all of his UFC fights, as well as fights from other promotions that you can go through and watch all of them. I'm starting to sound like a shill, but they also improved the interface dramatically about a month or so ago, so now it is way easier to use/find specific fights you are looking for.

Conor vs Diaz I will be on Fight Pass, but you will probably have to wait a couple weeks for Conor vs Diaz II to get added.

sick. i love to watch mma while on the treadmill so this sounds like a no brainer. thanks for the info

 

[brentech]

I'm not sure where you're located and possibly it's different outside the US, but inside, I can't watch full fight night cards on Fight Pass, just the 'fight pass prelims', the rest out the card is blacked out on fight pass. Have to switch over to the TV