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[Lain]

Of course they're alienating a lot of people.

Why do you think the industry is dwindling more and more every year? Because people have grown bored and disinterested in anime. Why do you suppose that is?

Because many download anime and don't buy it, that's why (I belive) it is dwindling.
Many people watch it, but very few buy it (and those few that buy it have to also balance it with the other forms of entertainment available).
There is still a lot of good anime being produced today, not all of it is loli (and some loli/moe shows are good too, not all loli/moe shows are crap after all), but the loli/moe side sells better (most of the time) or is more liked.

 

[flintstryker]

somethings wrong here, people aren't supposed to agree on the internet.

I strongly disagree with this notion.

 

[akachan ningen]

ACTUALLY! I think I know what's put me off anime, mainly.

The fans.

I mean, I used to go to London Expo (because my friend asked me to and for the odd bargain), and each time I went, I would be horrified by the creatures that also attended. The awful cosplayers. The Naruto Headband Wearing Wankers. The girls who looked like guys. The smell. The free huggers. All the shitty expensive Naruto, Haruhi and Final Fantasy merchandise EVERYWHERE.

These are the main customers. They keep the overseas business afloat.

Then don't go. You can watch anime forever without even getting into a situation where you would even see a single anime fanboy.

I went to a con about 6 years ago. That was enough for one lifetime.

 

[Great Rumbler]

2500 good anime made in the last 10 years? Really? If you can name me even 50 good ones that don't pander to the lonely otaku, I'll be surprised.

Here's 100:

-Gurren Lagann
-Code Geass
-Aria [all three series]
-Mushishi
-Death Note
-Monster
-The Girl Who Leapt Through Time [movie]
-Spirited Away [movie]
-Nodame Cantible
-Fullmetal Alchemist
-Baccano!
-When They Cry
-Mononoke
-Howl's Moving Castle [movie]
-Honey and Clover
-Hellsing Ultimate [OVA]
-Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
-Sword of the Stranger [movie]
-Kino's Journey
-5 Centimeters per Second [movie]
-Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu
-Time of Eve [OVA]
-Detroit Metal City
-Samurai Champloo
-Welcome to the NHK
-Gakutsuou
-Black Lagoon
-Spice and Wolf
-Planetes
-Seirei no Moribito
-Cowboy Bebop: Knockin' on Heaven's Door [movie]
-Dennou Coil
-Princess Tutu
-The Place Promised in Our Early Years [movie]
-Azumanga Daioh
-Tokyo Godfathers [movie]
-Millennium Actress [movie]
-Darker than Black
-Ghost Hunt
-Haibane Renmei
-Ponyo [movie]
-Tekkon Kinkreet [movie]
-Victorian Romance Emma
-Furi Kuri [OVA]
-Hare+Guu
-Claymore
-Paprika [movie]
-Ergo Proxy
-The Wallflower
-Crest of the Stars, Banner of the Stars I and II
-Last Exile
-Fruits Basket
-Mind Game [movie]
-Genshiken 1 and 2
-Voices of a Distant Star [OVA]
-Cromartie High School
-Wolf's Rain
-Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust [movie]
-Noein
-Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence [movie]
-Pale Cocoon [OVA]
-Moyashimon
-Karas [OVA]
-Romeo X Juliet
-Hellsing
-R.O.D. the TV
-Diebuster [OVA]
-Paranoia Agent
-Samurai 7
-Texhnolyze
-Scrapped Princess
-Kamichu!
-Le Chevalier D'Eon
-The Sky Crawlers [movie]
-Saikano
-The Animatrix [compilation]
-My Neighbors the Yamadas [movie]
-Cat Soup [OVA]
-Noir
-Golgo 13
-Steamboy [movie]
-Metropolis [movie]
-Witch Hunter Robin
-Slayers Revolution
-Gokusen
-Dead Leaves [movie]
-Windy Tales
-Boogiepop Phantom
-Yugo the Negotiator
-Kakurenbo [OVA]
-HeatGuy J
-RahXephon
-Allison and Lillia
-Armed Librarian: Book of Bantorra
-Trapeze
-Astro Fighter Sunred seasons 1 and 2
-Cobra the Animation
-Ghost Hound
-Blue Literature
-Summer Wars

You can probably knock off a few that have some pandering in them, but most are all at least solid, even great, works of anime.

 

[tokkun]

I'm curious to know what you OG motherfuckers think about shows like Planetes and Michiko & Hatchin. Seen either of those? I really enjoy those two and have a difficult time finding other character driven shows that are on that level. maybe y'all can point out some older stuff I might have missed?

I think Planetes is probably one of the worst manga-to-anime adaptations I've ever seen. They take a serious story for adults and try to give it mass appeal by throwing in a bunch of super annoying joke characters.

 

[Novid]

ACTUALLY! I think I know what's put me off anime, mainly.

The fans.

I mean, I used to go to London Expo (because my friend asked me to and for the odd bargain), and each time I went, I would be horrified by the creatures that also attended. The awful cosplayers. The Naruto Headband Wearing Wankers. The girls who looked like guys. The smell. The free huggers. All the shitty expensive Naruto, Haruhi and Final Fantasy merchandise EVERYWHERE.

These are the main customers. They keep the overseas business afloat.

The fan base has been deluded for years. Many conventions tried to be more sanitary by having more Elite like dance parties (I knew of one in New Hampshire) but the fanbase is too fucking poor for a nice dress, a suit and tie and what not.

The better idea was to merge the American conventions with the anime ones and have a set of rules for dress. Already they plan to do this for AX (they are merging with NYCF) but the fans who own AX are pissed that they send a NBC guy to fix there issues.

My idea, is that they should set up only Paid - Cosplayers (use them as "Booth Babes") and set up the conventions like they do with PAX and E3 and maybe CES. They must have rules for clothing (jacket, no sneakers etc) and so on. They can only cosplay at Halloween and New Years. I know they will bitch but how can you grow the business when you bring "Hick Culture" (yes most of the anime dubbers are based in the SOUTH in the us) to something that needed to be high class? And there is a history of high class southern culture so that makes it ten times worse that they been mucking up the joint...

 

[DOBERMAN INC]

Here's 100:

...

You can probably knock off a few that have some pandering in them, but most are all at least solid, even great, works of anime.

Time to do some research, Thanks!

 

[Great Rumbler]

I think Planetes is probably one of the worst manga-to-anime adaptations I've ever seen. They take a serious story for adults and try to give it mass appeal by throwing in a bunch of super annoying joke characters.

The first half of Planetes was fairly light, but the second half certainly wasn't.

 

[Dabookerman]

Then don't go. You can watch anime forever without even getting into a situation where you would even see a single anime fanboy.

I went to a con about 6 years ago. That was enough for one lifetime.

Well I don't. Hence the "I used to" ;p

 

[anotheriori]

>>>

I loved both but hmm letsee..
5 episode OVA vs 24 episode TV series
first based off basically a hentai manga and the other off a 4koma/comic strip
first is probably for adult men demographic the other is accessible other audiences without overt fanservice (biker chick: 18+)
for 5 episodes even they start reusing the same jokes

 

[anotheriori]

2ch believes it has successfully divided anime otaku into two distinct types:

Type A:
A person who simply enjoys “anime.”
Is proud of Japan’s anime.
Evaluates anime based on direction, voice acting, art, etc.
Hates shallow anime with no real content.
Story emphasis >>>>> Moe anime.
A recent example would Higashi no Eden. Fans of anime like Lain or Ghost in the Shell would probably be this kind.

Type B:
A person who simply enjoys “characters.”
Will watch an anime if it includes cute or beautiful characters.
Doesn’t care if story is awful, as long as the characters are of interest.
Evaluates anime based on which seiyuu are in it and what the characters look like.
Loves moe elements. Doesn’t like complex anime.
The otaku the media picks up on are usually this kind.
Doesn’t know that much about anime and so is often criticised as by Type A otaku.
However, they make much better customers than the more discerning Type A otaku.
Recently there has been a huge increase in anime targeted at Type B otaku.
People who like K-ON!, Queen’s Blade, Strike Witches and so on would be in this class.

In fairness “Type A” seems more a description of anime “fans” than anime “otaku,” as most of the irrational and obsessive characteristics generally associated with otaku seem to be absent; on the other hand, it is in the hearts of “Type B” otaku that the seeds of the moe boom were sown…

The description for type B leaves out people who watch anime because it has cool looking robots and hotblooded "men".

Type A's anime: Usually has a grimdark setting. The characters are very realistic and the dialogues are usually well-thought out. Is in dangerous to aim to be too deep and then tumbles into the pretentious area.

Type B's anime: Usually very bright and colorful, the characters are bishoujo/bishounen, usually at the cost of any realism anime might've had. The dialogues are simple and don't require any wil train of thoughts. The danger of type B's anime are usually low production values and being downright stupid

Think I fall more i into Type B.

 

[Hitokage]

What about Type Bs who pretend they are Type A?

*looks at 7th*

 

[Dabookerman]

So which type is slice of life? I don't seem to fall into either category.

Wait, this only applies to Otakus.

 

[Jason]

What about Type Bs who pretend they are Type A?

*looks at 7th*

:lol

 

[Lain]

Lain and Ghost in the Shell are some of my most loved anime, but I've really enjoyed K-ON and Queen's Blade was nice for the boobies... so in which category do I fall?!

 

[Pandaman]

Here's 100:
You can probably knock off a few that have some pandering in them, but most are all at least solid, even great, works of anime.

god damnit, i had just finished my list of 50.

 

[The Frankman]

What about Type Bs who pretend they are Type A?

*looks at 7th*

 

[shintoki]

It's kind of scary how passionate some of your hate is towards it. :lol

 

[Rorschach]

Damn. 7th is getting roasted in this thread. :lol

It's kind of scary how passionate some of your hate is towards it. :lol

Too scared to directly defend it?

 

[The Frankman]

I have found the enjoyment on Japanese animation to be a self-hating hobby. Between the fans who constantly say "you're not a real anime fan unless you X/Y/Z" to the superiority inferiority complex a lot of the younger ones have, it tends to attract hate. It goes doubly if said fans then bash every non-anime show as being "crass and uneducated" as has been the case many times in my experience.

 

[Regulus Tera]

I watched a couple of episodes of this and it was terrible (I was reaaally bored). This is supposed to be different from all the other moe/romantic comedy crap?

 

[DOBERMAN INC]

god damnit, i had just finished my list of 50.

Please post it, I would be interested as I've been looking for new shows to watch that are entertaining.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Here's 100:


You can probably knock off a few that have some pandering in them, but most are all at least solid, even great, works of anime.

Cool list.

Though a bunch of them are a bit older than a decade old, that doesn't matter. I can't see too many awful ones on there, and even if a bunch aren't my thing, I can recognize that most of the shows there were made with honest effort.

Well done.

god damnit, i had just finished my list of 50.

Post it anyway. Might as well if you put the work into it.

I have found the enjoyment on Japanese animation to be a self-hating hobby. Between the fans who constantly say "you're not a real anime fan unless you X/Y/Z" to the superiority inferiority complex a lot of the younger ones have, it tends to attract hate. It goes doubly if said fans then bash every non-anime show as being "crass and uneducated" as has been the case many times in my experience.

I take it with pride when somebody says I'm not a 'true' fan. To me that just means I have taste and standards and that I understand what I enjoy.

 

[Regulus Tera]

To show how things are bad, where is the new Kids series from Japan? Can anybody mention one? Back when pokemon was fresh on everybody's mind - why did the dubbers and even 4Kids wanted One Piece/Naruto (knowing they were going to edit the fuck out of it) instead of a true Kids series?

Isn't Bakugan pretty fucking popular? I keep seeing ads for it on TV all the time.

 

[Xabora]

heh, I made that for use in one thread here.
Thought I'd never see it again. :lol

btw its from Slayers.

 

[Hitokage]

I have found the enjoyment on Japanese animation to be a self-hating hobby. Between the fans who constantly say "you're not a real anime fan unless you X/Y/Z" to the superiority inferiority complex a lot of the younger ones have, it tends to attract hate. It goes doubly if said fans then bash every non-anime show as being "crass and uneducated" as has been the case many times in my experience.

The totality in a lot of these discussions is rather pointless. Watch what you like; don't stress about the rest.

Having said that though, a lot of anime fans have yet to become discriminate about their own viewing, or didn't handle the transition from indiscriminate to discriminate viewing all that well.

 

[The Frankman]

I take it with pride when somebody says I'm not a 'true' fan. To me that just means I have taste and standards and that I understand what I enjoy.

That is true. Hurts the perception of fans though... With me I'll generally give anything a shot, but I know I like supernatural/drama/science fiction/fighting stuff. My shelves are full of the older stuff (Yu Yu Hakusho, DB and DBZ, Trinity Blood, Blood+,.hack, Outlaw Star, Blue Gender, insert [as] acquisition) but I try to me versatile. I love animation in general and to limit oneself (as for some reason I have seen a few times) is senseless. It's like console wars shit, only with animation.

The totality in a lot of these discussions is rather pointless. Watch what you like; don't stress about the rest.

Having said that though, a lot of anime fans have yet to become discriminate about their own viewing, or didn't handle the transition from indiscriminate to discriminate viewing all that well.

It took me awhile to take that viewpoint, it was so much hypocritical crap back in the day and it pissed me off.

Also how the hell did we get from Moe/Lolicon to this? :lol

 

[Crash Station]

What the hell happened in here in the last few days?

 

[shintoki]

I have found the enjoyment on Japanese animation to be a self-hating hobby. Between the fans who constantly say "you're not a real anime fan unless you X/Y/Z" to the superiority inferiority complex a lot of the younger ones have, it tends to attract hate. It goes doubly if said fans then bash every non-anime show as being "crass and uneducated" as has been the case many times in my experience.

I would say that pretty much hits all the notes. :lol

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Well I don't. Hence the "I used to" ;p

I used to annually attend Otakon. It was something I had been doing since...the mid-90's at least.

I stopped attending a couple years ago because 1) the main draw to them for me was to discover new anime that I'd never seen before, but that's been rendered useless now thanks to the internet and 2) There's just so, so many fans there that don't know anything about anime. Most of 'em are just teenagers that are there to hang out with their friends. And they make it really crowded.

Except for the video rooms that play older titles. Those are usually always virtually empty except for me and a few older guys like me.

I might go this year, though. My gf's been wanting to go for years(even though her opinion of modern anime is even more sour than mine is). Who knows.

 

[The Frankman]

We so need a thread title change. Someone get SonicMegaDrive and a mod together for ideas, the thread is like a loli character that has outgrown its parameters! It's learning and feeling emotions! IT WILL cook us food and try to "fall in love" with us KILL US ALL UNLESS WE RE-LABEL IT!

also I have a story to tell you about how Fate doesn't want me at anime cons. Geez.

 

[Dabookerman]

The worst anime I ever watched was Macross Frontier, a 2008 anime. Dropped it less than halfway through. I hear it was kind of a hit when it came out :lol

God that show is fucking awful.

What is it about? Sheryl Nome is a hottie.

Plus I think it's aimed more at girls. I think

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

We so need a thread title change. Someone get SonicMegaDrive and a mod together for ideas, the thread is like a loli character that has outgrown its parameters! It's learning and feeling emotions! IT WILL cook us food and try to "fall in love" with us KILL US ALL UNLESS WE RE-LABEL IT!

also I have a story to tell you about how Fate doesn't want me at anime cons. Geez.

:lol

It has become somewhat of an all-encompassing anime topic now, hasn't it?

If I could rename it, I'd call it:

Cartoons from Japan!! The Good, the Bad, and the Moé

Also: This thread has been handy because it's put the energy in me to seek out some of those shows I couldn't track down before. I finally found some Dr. Slump fansubs that I'd been searching for for years.

 

[wRATH2x]

OK where the fuck can I watch bastard with english subs?

Youtube didn't work, and all I found was the english dub which from what I hear removes the heavy metal references, and I just can't have that.

 

[Josh7289]

The industry's over.

Official One Piece 3D Breasts Mouse Pads for Sale

Not even ultra mainstream shonen manga can escape moe. I don't think we need any more proof of how low the anime/manga industry has fallen.

Honestly, I don't know if it can rebound from this. Most of the fans today are the moe and lolicon fans; the industry has already alienated most of the previous types of fans and otaku.

And when I say it's over, I mean by and large it's just going to be moe shit from here on out. Luckily there are still glimmers of hope, like Durarara, but they're very few and far between.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

OK where the fuck can I watch bastard with english subs?

Youtube didn't work, and all I found was the english dub which from what I hear removes the heavy metal references, and I just can't have that.

Well, only the dub is up on YouTube afaik.

However, there is a way to download the show in Japanese via torrent...

 

[The Frankman]

OK where the fuck can I watch bastard with english subs?

Youtube didn't work, and all I found was the english dub which from what I hear removes the heavy metal references, and I just can't have that.

I'm sorry I can't help there. I'm not even a sub fan.

 

[Xabora]

Not even ultra mainstream shonen manga can escape moe. I don't think we need any more proof of how low the anime/manga industry has fallen.

Its all in the poster.

 

[The Frankman]

Not even ultra mainstream shonen manga can escape moe. I don't think we need any more proof of how low the anime/manga industry has fallen.

EDIT: retracted gif.

 

[tokkun]

What the hell happened in here in the last few days?

Bunch of pedos were trying to organize a group watch of kodomo no jikan for because it would be 'funny'.

 

[Great Rumbler]

god damnit, i had just finished my list of 50.

I went back and dug that up from I post I made in the Anime Nostalgia thread a few months ago. That thread is remarkably similar to this one.

Though a bunch of them are a bit older than a decade old, that doesn't matter.

All of them should be at least from 2000, I was pretty careful about not putting anything from 1999 or earlier in it, but I may have missed one or two.

 

[Regulus Tera]

The industry's over.

Official One Piece 3D Breasts Mouse Pads for Sale

Not even ultra mainstream shonen manga can escape moe. I don't think we need any more proof of how low the anime/manga industry has fallen.

Honestly, I don't know if it can rebound from this. Most of the fans today are the moe and lolicon fans; the industry has already alienated most of the previous types of fans and otaku.

And when I say it's over, I mean by and large it's just going to be moe shit from here on out. Luckily there are still glimmers of hope, like Durarara, but they're very few and far between.

I don't think the One Piece cast counts as moe. More like ultra super duper dai-oppai.

 

[Haly]

Can we get a definition for moe up in this bitch?

 

[The Frankman]

Now that I think about it I retract my gif. What animation doesn't try to sell up its character's sexuality?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgDeL8cUTxw

 

[Haly]

Now that I think about it I retract my gif. What animation doesn't try to sell up it's character's sexuality?

What about animation with not a lot of sexuality?

(Eden comes to mind, except for Ms. Johnny Chopper)

 

[wRATH2x]

Well, only the dub is up on YouTube afaik.

However, there is a way to download the show in Japanese via torrent...

Couldn't find it though.

It would please me if anyone wants to help.

 

[The Frankman]

What about animation with not a lot of sexuality?

(Eden comes to mind, except for Ms. Johnny Chopper)

Even in merchandising? I'd think the companies would find a way no matter how small. Maybe not even in a blatant way (Winry in FMA). Then again I can see where it would depend on the show.

 

[Fox318]

Now that I think about it I retract my gif. What animation doesn't try to sell up its character's sexuality?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgDeL8cUTxw

 

[Great Rumbler]

Can we get a definition for moe up in this bitch?

It's an obsession, usually from the male audience, with "cuteness".

What animation doesn't try to sell up its character's sexuality?

Quite a lot don't do that. Animation aimed more towards adults does it far more often, of course, but even there it's not a gold standard that all adult oriented animation plays up sex.

 

[anotheriori]

Can we get a definition for moe up in this bitch?

The new meaning of 'moe' is entirely caught up in issues surrounding hobbies and taste. Specifically, 'moe' means be attracted to a specific character or its specific partial element and to have a favor feeling toward it. 'Moe' suggests the condition of being infatuated with one character or thing and implies an image of someone burning with desire.
The picture becomes clearer when we hear the frequent use of 'moe' referring to specific elements or characteristics, such as 'weak girl moe,' 'young lady moe,' and 'glasses moe.' The meaning of 'glasses moe' refers to a taste that is taken with a character who wears glasses; furthermore, this taste fetishizes the feature itself of glasses-wearing. In this case, glasses are the 'moe' element.
The sex industry comparison is just an example to introduce the fetish side of the "moe" feeling. However then, why do people enjoy Anime look character to be even falling in love?

Please imagine the feeling when you first liked somebody. The passion pops up inside of your brain and heart. This is not logical and unexplainable. And "moe" is a feeling very similar to this specific moment

strong attraction to particular characteristics, this ofcourse extends to 'cool looking'/'badass'/'intellectual'.