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[Mike Works]

You examine only Michael for a reason, though....the rest of "Arrested" easily fits into established types. The spoiled rich girl, the arrogant bastard, the repressed artsy homosexual, the ungrateful overbearing mom, the pompous self-centered father that's failed his family, etc. They're so accessible that I don't even have to tell you which character is each of the aforementioned. None of this is a slight though, because the joy in both shows will be in watching the interactions between the different types and the crazy situations they get themselves into. It just seems wholly premature to say that there's no potential in AD (or AD) after watching less than ten minutes of a pilot episode. Even you said that it took you a few episodes to get into "Arrested".

Whether the similarities to Family Guy are as strong as some contend doesn't matter much. As I already asked in the other thread -- who really cares as long as it's funny? The ostensible purpose is to make us laugh, not bowl us over with creativity.

It took me a few episodes to get into "Arrested" because I didn't fully comprehend the nuances of the characters (and fully why they were funny). There was background I was missing, but other developments that they've formed.

Macfarlane's stuff doesn't work like that. Peter hasn't "grown" or "evolved" since the very first Family Guy, but that's okay, because the writing's been continually fresh, and the characters aren't two dimensional. While Peter is a loudmouth pig, he's not a loudmouth pig all the time. Watching American Dad, the dad is a hardcore republican patriot all the time. Just like the liberal hippy girl. Just like the goldfish. That's all they are (though that could change, I just don't see it happening given that it hasn't happened with any of Family Guy's characters).

Arrested Development's characters can be type cast too, but I'd like to see one person try and tell me the 'awkward teenage boy' from both Arrested Development and American Dad are equal in regard to character flexibility, future potential, and so forth.

 

[BobbyRobby]

I fucked up, i meant "Undeclared"...

What an incredible show that was. Its a damn shame FOX is about to cancel the greatest show on TV once again.

 

[Flynn]

the simiraity between the two is his payback to the studio for cancelling Family Guy.

Or a plumbing of his creative depths.

 

[border]

Given that production costs for Family Guy and American Dad are shared between Fox and the Cartoon Network, it might not even have to do as well as Arrested Development. Excellent DVD sales are probably also assured so that gives the McFarlane projects even more leighway. If they're astoundingly successful, then so much the better, but even mediocre ratings might make them a better investment than Arrested Development.

Pairing the two shows together seems a bit weird given their similarities, though. I suspect that Fox will split them up sooner or later. Or they might just realize the redundancy and axe American Dad.

Now it sounds about 31 shades of Futurama.

Seems more like they are trying to give the Futurama treatment to Malcolm in the Middle, with the cruddy 7:30 timeslot. I really have no idea why Fox keeps trying to establish a 7-8 PM Sunday lineup when they carry so many NFL games that delay or pre-empt those shows.

 

[Mike Works]

Or they might just realize the redundancy and axe American Dad.

That's what I see happening, and I don't see anyone caring either. No one wants American Dad over Family Guy, and I think a lot of people same a similar mindset as mine in regards to preferring Family Guy over a less focused Family Guy and a knock off that isn't as funny. I sure as hell wouldn't want the Arrested Development creator to create a knock off show with all new characters but the exact same treatment endangering the original show's creativity and productivity.

As a side note over which shows and what timeslots FOX is running with, what's their big show established for each day of the week (excluding events like sports)? On Sunday it's The Simpsons, on Thursday I think it's The OC, and I think 24 is on.. Monday? So assuming I'm right there, what are their big Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday shows?

 

[Dan]

Monday: Trading Spouses, 24
Tuesday: American Idol, House
Wednesday: That 70s Show, The Simple Life, American Idol
Thursday: The OC, Point Pleasant
Friday: The Bernie Mac Show, Johnny Zero
Saturday: Cops, America's Most Wanted, specials, Mad TV

 

[border]

While Peter is a loudmouth pig, he's not a loudmouth pig all the time. Watching American Dad, the dad is a hardcore republican patriot all the time. Just like the liberal hippy girl. Just like the goldfish. That's all they are (though that could change, I just don't see it happening given that it hasn't happened with any of Family Guy's characters).

Peter, like Homer, only breaks from the "stupid pig" character at minor dramatic moments. He moves beyond his predetermined type when his family relationships are in jeopardy. You can't see the American Dad father doing the same? These uncharacteristic moments aren't even very funny; they're a small humanist respite from cartoon extremes....so I'm not sure of their ultimate value to the series. Arrested Development really works the same way -- a character makes minor strides or changes over the course of an episode, but reverts in the next episode because everything is centered around character types, and lasting development would affect the way everything works.

And again, can't you see how crazy it looks to say "He's a patriot all the time" when you haven't even viewed "all the time" that's been aired (much less subsequent episodes)? Exactly how varied is Peter in the first 7 minutes of the Family Guy pilot?

 

[Mike Works]

Which episode was the Family Guy pilot again? And I'll eventually watch a few more episodes after the show's developed, but I expect more out of American Dad than MacFarlane's first cartoon ever.

edit: And for all the ragging I'm getting from you for only watching 1/3rd of the episode, did he suddenly change after that first third? Because there is no point in continually bringing that up if he didn't.

 

[border]

The first episode was the one with the Kool Aid Man gag. Peter gets a $150,000 welfare check and spends it rather than pointing out the mistake.

So assuming I'm right there, what are their big Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday shows?

Tuesday and Wednesday belong to American Idol. That 70's Show and Bernie Mac also help on those nights. Saturday is I think the least profitable night in television, and they prop it up with ultra cheap reality shows (Cops and America's Most Wanted is a formula that seems to work and they will NOT mix it up). Friday, who the fuck knows? That night has killed pretty much everything Fox throws at it -- Firefly, John Doe, Millenium (and the other Chris Carter shows). Maybe a sitcom would work, but not one in Arrested Development's style. ABC used to have the right idea with TGIF.

 

[fart]

imo they were just looking for a reason to cancel the show. they seem to do that a lot, these fox execs

 

[Mike Works]

Alright, well to sum it all up, I didn't find the characters, the majority of the jokes, nor the situations funny. I think there's a lot more comedy potential for a loudmouth sexist paired with a strong woman than there is a republican CIA patriot and a nothing of a character/wife in the hands of someone like Macfarlane. Political commentary can be funny as referenced by The Daily Show, but the gag was worn thin by the end of the first friggin scene. I laughed when he shot the toaster, but that was about it.

The (pilot) show has gotten average or below average reviews from critics across the board. Arrested Development has gotten a ton of praise from the critics, plus nominations/awards. We (now) have Family Guy back. It's just frustrating that this sequence of events coupled with FOX's terrible management has lead to this result. It'd be like cancelling Family Guy so FOX could put out 'Shelbyville'. People and critics alike embraced Futurama because, although it had a similar art style, it was a completely new concept using different humor. American Dad is just wacky family with occasional offset reference/flashback humor all over again. Sure it has potential, but so does every other piloting show in the history of existance.

People are going to judge the series with what they've been given, and that's why you don't see me saying, "It will always be terrible, nothing about it will never change". There is potential. But I don't want to see an amazing, established show (not talking ratings here) get canned so a poor, knock off can get a chance.

 

[Socreges]

I've been trying to get my parents to watch AD for weeks. They initially asked me about it (Emmy - best sitcom), so I tried to introduce them. Finally tonight:

Dad (to mom) - "What's on at 10 o clock?"
Me (overhears) - "Arrested Development DVD."
Mom (looks at TV which has crime drama on) - "Is that Arrested Development?"
Me (blankly) - "Yes, that is Arrested Development."
Dad - "It's on Wednesday nights?"
Me - "..."
Mom - "Oh, he wasn't serious."

True fucking story. So I was understandably STUNNED when my parents started laughing at the show. They actually knew what was going on. My mom tuned out (cuz she's slow), but my dad immediately started the second episode and then watched the third! Woo, another convert!

Does it matter then since the show is getting cancelled? I guess not.


Anyway, American Dad. The worst part was that the jokes that failed were too apparent. The "Steve = Period" series, for example, was insultingly stupid. But there were several really funny parts. I mean, the alien saying "Francine" was even funny to me. The Arab going out the window had me LOL. It's a poor man's Family Guy, no question, but it's still a fun show. Maybe I enjoyed it more because I only watched it last night after hearing about all the disappointment. So I was pleasantly surprised to find that it was pretty funny pretty often, and sometimes exceptionally funny.

-edit- Mike, am I tagless now or is the image down?

 

[border]

Given American Dad's genre, I think it's basically a given that the show will have plenty of moments where:

--stupid-but-lovable dad realizes his mistake
--aplogizes to friend/family member that is upset
--makes good with some loving or understanding gesture

If that's all it's really going to take for you to love American Dad, then don't worry. Personally I don't think these moments really make a show, and they only get more tiresome and cheap as the years roll on. Are you really moved by Homer's apology to Marge in fucking Season 14? It's a necessary convention at best, and a meaningless cliche at worst.

All In The Family mined some great years out of a hyper-conservative dad/hippie daughter dynamic, so I really wouldn't sell them short on that end.

If it's just not funny to you, then that should really be the main complaint. Similarities to Family Guy or the "humanity" of cartoon characters are going to be something ultimately irrelevant -- just a talking point for message board geeks.

I really don't understand why all of the shows can't be aired on Sunday night. Are they really going to fill in the extra half-hour with a second episode of The Simpsons? If it's more profitable for Fox to air a Simpsons re-run than a new episode of "Arrested" then the situation for "Arrested" must be very dire. I didn't think the ratings were really that bad....just mediocre. Maybe it costs a lot to support a huge ensemble cast or something.

Total tangent -- Am I the only one that wonders what the hell they would have done if Bush hadn't been re-elected? The production time on animation is so long that the scripts have to be done way in advance -- they probably had 10-20 episodes in varying stages of completion by the time the elections rolled around. Seems like it was kind of a gamble, but I guess Fox helped them pull it off

 

[Kobun Heat]

Was there anything in the pilot that actually centered around Bush as president? I didn't see anything.

I liked when the alien said "I'm a douchebag." The word douchebag is funny

 

[border]

Well, there was the joke where President Bush appeared on screen, in the Oval Office =P

It's not entirely that though, so much as I just think the mood of the country would be pretty different. All the stuff that is still ripe for parody now would seem old hat as Kerry installed a new left-leaning cabinet....

 

[Mike Works]

-edit- Mike, am I tagless now or is the image down?

It seems Fuck You and Die is down at the moment (I just had to upload my avatar to Image Shack), so I'll just give you an awesome text based one that I would use if it weren't for my mirror picture.

Was there anything in the pilot that actually centered around Bush as president? I didn't see anything.

Err, wasn't there that scene where God called him asking him to stop telling the public God wanted him to be president, etc?

 

[Socreges]

It seems Fuck You and Die is down at the moment (I just had to upload my avatar to Image Shack), so I'll just give you an awesome text based one that I would use if it weren't for my mirror picture.

This is, indeed, awesome.

 

[fart]

oh and the BEST PART

david cross screwed out of another great part.

 

[Brian Fellows]

I wish death and pestilence on the children of anyone who was apart of this decision.