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More Romney versus McCain

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Republican presidential contender Mitt Romney on Thursday accused rival John McCain's campaign of dishonesty in posting to the Internet portions of a video that McCain's camp contends is proof of Romney's waffling on the issue of abortion rights.

But McCain's campaign fired back, saying it will post on its campaign Web site the entire video, which also shows Romney's support for lifting a federal ban on embryonic stem-cell research which was vetoed by President Bush.

Romney, a former Massachusetts governor who is seeking conservative backing in his bid for the GOP nomination, has been forced along the campaign trail to repeatedly detail his conversion from a supporter of abortion rights to an opponent of the procedure—as he did during a campaign and fundraising visit to Chicago on Thursday.

During a debate in his 2002 run for governor, Romney pledged to Massachusetts voters that he had "been very clear" and would "preserve and protect a woman's right to choose."

But Romney has said he began opposing abortion rights in November 2004 after he said a discussion with a researcher involving embryonic stem cell research made him feel that human life was not being valued.

Earlier this week, in an unusually sharp attack for this stage of the campaign, McCain's campaign released a video of a Romney news conference from May 2005 in which the then-governor said he was "committed" to maintaining existing abortion laws
.

"Mitt Romney's biggest challenge in this election will be convincing Republicans he has principled positions on important issues, especially now that it's known that he remained committed to pro-choice policies after his 'epiphany' on abortion in 2004," Matt David, McCain's deputy communications director, said in a statement.

Romney said Thursday the portion of the video posted to the Internet only showed a portion of his remarks that day. In its entirety, he said, the video was shot at a news conference "at which I described why I was vetoing cloning legislation because it didn't respect the sanctity of life."

And Romney contended the Arizona senator's campaign was "not being honest enough to put the full press conference" on the Internet. And, with another GOP contender, Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas, weighing in on the attacks on Romney Thursday, the former governor contended his opponents had "stooped to making an attack."

But a McCain spokesman said the entire video shows Romney expressing support for lifting the Bush administration's ban on federal embryonic stem-cell research. ABC News, which reported Thursday on Romney's May 2005 speech, said the then-governor supported the use of surplus embryos from in vitro fertilization. The Massachusetts legislation Romney vetoed that day would have gone further to include human cloning and allowed for the creation of embryos purely for research.

"The facts are clear, Mitt Romney advocated pro-choice policies even after his alleged 'epiphany' in 2004," said McCain spokesman Danny Diaz. "Voters should go to www.johnmccain.com to watch the entire press conference and judge for themselves as to whether Mitt Romney not only changed his position on abortion, but also federal funding of stem cell research."

ABC News also reported that within two months of Romney's November 2004 conversion as an abortion rights opponent, he appointed to the Massachusetts bench a Democrat who was a noted supporter of abortion rights.

On another topic, Romney lashed out at U.S. Atty. Patrick Fitzgerald's handling of the special CIA leak investigation in Washington that resulted in the conviction of former vice presidential chief of staff Lewis "Scooter" Libby. Romney contended Fitzgerald may have abused his prosecutorial discretion as special prosecutor in the Valerie Plame leak case.

Libby was ordered Thursday to report to prison soon while his conviction is being appealed.

Romney said Fitzgerald, who has earned a reputation of a corruption fighter in his role as U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Illinois, "may well have abused prosecutorial discretion by pursuing the investigation" after learning that former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage revealed Plame's identity as a CIA operative to the media in 2003.

"He knew that, therefore, a crime was not committed and yet he proceeded with an investigation knowing there was no crime to pursue," Romney said of Fitzgerald.

Romney said he was not calling for any sanctions against Fitzgerald, but said "that abuse of prosecutorial discretion justifies a very careful look at a possible [presidential pardon]." Romney also said he had not awarded any pardons during his tenure as governor.

Looking at an important issue during his tenure as governor, Romney criticized lawmakers in Massachusetts for failing to allow voters Thursday to decide the issue of gay marriage there after a state Supreme Court ruling made it legal. He said it underscored the need for a constitutional amendment to define marriage.

"We need to have a federal marriage amendment to assure marriage is a relationship between a man and a woman because states like Massachusetts will take the course they did, which is letting the (state) Supreme Court make this decision, taking the decision away from the people," he said.

Romney contended that throughout civilization, marriage was defined between a man and a woman on the basis of child raising.

"I believe moms and dads associated with the development and nurturing of children is one of the major purposes of marriage and therefore, to protect that nurturing setting, we need to have moms and dads and not two moms and two dads," he said.

I love the petty bitch fighting among those two. You can tell they really don't like each other. I like the notion that Romney suddenly got all this information on abortion that made him see the light about three years ago. I also like the slight hypocriscy in how Republicans tend to be very states rights until it's about something they don't disagree with like the gay marriage issue.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxV-QNXoRIc
http://www.johnmccain.com/Blog/Read.aspx?guid=5d733909-874a-463a-9df5-6a66e78846e5
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-romney-webjun15,1,3933699.story?coll=chi-news-hed
 
the reason they're at each other's throats instead of guiliani's is because they are probably going to be fighting each other for the VP spot. they should focus on guiliani though, he is the real evil one.
 
siamesedreamer said:
Welp, I'm glad they're focusing on such an important issue........ :rolleyes

323-4.gif


Well it is only the 5th most important issue to Republican primary voters but its the most easily understand.

More to the point, it's a flip-flopper issue which Republicans love to hound democrats on so what's good for the goose. :)
 
johnsenclan said:
I'd pay $100 to see these guys start throwing punches at the next debate. $200 if McCain makes Romney cry. :D

I'd gladly drop $1,000 to see Ron Paul and Giuliani throw down. Ron Paul would win of course.
 

Jeff-DSA

Member
I know Mitt Romney personally, so I'm a insanely biased, but McCain has always seemed to be a bit of a snake to me.

I don't understand, however, why a politician can't change his or her mind once they become better informed on a topic. If you had to stay 100% loyal to your original opinions, the civil rights movement would have been a much slower affair.

I couldn't stand John Kerry, but some of the criticism about him not supporting the Iraq war after voting for it was a bit over the top. He came to realize that it wasn't what he originally expected, so he changed his mind. Big deal.
 
Jeff-DSA said:
I know Mitt Romney personally, so I'm a insanely biased, but McCain has always seemed to be a bit of a snake to me.

I don't understand, however, why a politician can't change his or her mind once they become better informed on a topic. If you had to stay 100% loyal to your original opinions, the civil rights movement would have been a much slower affair.

I couldn't stand John Kerry, but some of the criticism about him not supporting the Iraq war after voting for it was a bit over the top. He came to realize that it wasn't what he originally expected, so he changed his mind. Big deal.


But after he was "better informed" he flip flopped on it.
 
But Romney has said he began opposing abortion rights in November 2004 after he said a discussion with a researcher involving embryonic stem cell research made him feel that human life was not being valued.

Smells like bullshit.
 

Jeff-DSA

Member
bigfatgameguy said:
But after he was "better informed" he flip flopped on it.

And what's wrong with that? What if he really did educate himself better on the matter and it changed his mind? Should he lie to himself and his supporters just to remain constant?
 
Jeff-DSA said:
I know Mitt Romney personally, so I'm a insanely biased, but McCain has always seemed to be a bit of a snake to me.

I don't understand, however, why a politician can't change his or her mind once they become better informed on a topic. If you had to stay 100% loyal to your original opinions, the civil rights movement would have been a much slower affair.

I couldn't stand John Kerry, but some of the criticism about him not supporting the Iraq war after voting for it was a bit over the top. He came to realize that it wasn't what he originally expected, so he changed his mind. Big deal.

His flip flopping annoys me less than his characterization of Massachusetts citizens during the debates so far. I'm not from there but I'd be upset at the way he's essentially ran away completely from most of his positions when he governered there since it's such a "tough place" to govern. The implication being those crazy liberals up there...
 
siamesedreamer said:
This line of reasoning is idiotic. Why shouldn't people be allowed to change their minds when new info is presented?

I'm going to remember this post for all future Republican talking points. :)
 
siamesedreamer said:
This line of reasoning is idiotic. Why shouldn't people be allowed to change their minds when new info is presented?

What i was getting at, from the youtube clip in the original post, was after he declared himself a pro-lifer, he addressed another group of people stating he was pro-choice. Sorry if my wording wasnt clear. If he wants to change his mind after being better informed, thats fine, but stick with it, dont go back on it.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Jeff-DSA said:
I know Mitt Romney personally, so I'm a insanely biased, but McCain has always seemed to be a bit of a snake to me.

I don't understand, however, why a politician can't change his or her mind once they become better informed on a topic.
"Better informed" seems to match up with perfectly with GOP talking points, and he only adopted this superior information when he announced his run for the presidency. That's a null set.
 
More nuanced dancing around the issue.




Romney: Anti-abortion activists won him over


By Carey Gillam
Reuters
Friday, June 15, 2007; 4:12 PM

KANSAS CITY, Missouri (Reuters) - U.S. presidential hopeful Mitt Romney sought to turn his shifting views on abortion to his advantage on Friday, bringing social conservatives to their feet in a speech in which he said they helped convert him to their cause.

The former Massachusetts governor, the top fund-raiser among Republican candidates, has been accused of adopting the anti-abortion stance as a matter of political convenience.

But flanked by American flags and red, white and blue balloons, Romney got a standing ovation as he told hundreds of anti-abortion activists attending the National Right to Life convention that their work helped win him over.

"I proudly follow a long line of converts," Romney, 60, told the crowd in Kansas City. "When I first ran for office, while I was always personally opposed to abortion ... I concluded that I would support the law ... the pro-choice position. I was wrong."
Campaign aides to Republican rival John McCain this week released a video of a May 2005 news conference where Romney said he was "absolutely committed" to maintaining Massachusetts' abortion rights laws.

On Friday, he said the 1973 landmark Roe v. Wade ruling that legalized abortion "continues to work its destructive logic throughout our society. This cannot continue."

Romney insisted he had a "common dedication" to work with anti-abortion activists on a range of issues, including embryonic stem cell research, another issue where Romney has been accused of expressing conflicting views.

"What some see as just a clump of cells is actually a human life," he said.

Ronda Putman, a California mother who traveled to the convention because she considers "issues of life" more important to the country than the war in Iraq, said she was unimpressed with Romney.

"Mitt Romney can stand up there and say everything he thinks we want to hear, but I don't think he is sincere," said Putman, adding she had not decided who to support in the race.
Romney was followed to the podium by Kansas Sen. Sam Brownback, a favored son of U.S. conservatives but considered a longshot for the Republican presidential nomination.

Brownback was cheered wildly by the crowd, which ranged from infants to the elderly, as he focused his remarks on his devotion to "life, whole life" and pledged to work to overturn Roe v. Wade.

"We are winning the fight for life. We are going to win the fight for life," Brownback said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/15/AR2007061501347.html
 
Jeff-DSA said:
I know Mitt Romney personally, so I'm a insanely biased, but McCain has always seemed to be a bit of a snake to me.
Strange, I'm not a McCain fan, but Romney is the one that seems like a smarmy insincere creep. I don't think I've seen one instance during the campaign of him coming across as totally genuine. As a Mormon, I have a bad feeling he's going to make everyone in his religion look bad by the end of this thing.
 
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