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[JensenBeeswax]

I was a piece of shit bully in school. Then game the acne. Man, what a piece of humble pie that was.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This is worded funny.

Am I correct in reinterpreting it as:

"Amirox is correct - it is important to take the focus and blame off individual responsibility. The focus on individual responsibility has only really helped bullying and hasn't done anything to make anyone healthier. It's also been great for corporations to continue selling garbage as the blame is shifted to the individual that consumes it, while the corporation is only offering 'choice'."

100% correct. Although I would replace "helped" with "encouraged" or "promoted" in regards to bullying.

 

[Beer Monkey]

3. Fund research on medical alternatives to simple diet and exercise by itself, since diet and exercise by itself is clearly failing most of the time. Perhaps there is some sort of medicated alternative that allows one to both utilize diet and exercise and more easily have the mindset required to keep the pounds off once you start losing them. We won't know until we stop treating obesity as the sole result of one's selfish lack of control.

Fund research to try to negate the laws of thermodynamics.

Yeah.

You know there are studies that show that long term weight loss is more successful than is commonly believed.

My advice is that instead of finding alternatives that don't exist, commit to calorie counting for life. MyFitnessPal makes it really easy. Kitchen scales are a few bucks.

If you are having a hard time managing hunger while consuming your targeted caloric intake, shift your diet to foods that are more filling/sating. Reduce processed carbs but eat the exact same number of calories by replacing them with fresh protein, fresh fat, and fresh vegetables. You'll feel more full at the same caloric intake. Some people don't need to do this as they can eat heavily processed foods at reasonable caloric intake, but some people can't. Personally whenever I feel a hunger pang I think of it as the feel of getting healthier. Likewise, when I feel soreness from lifting weight I think of it as the feel of muscle growing. It becomes a motivator and the pangs and soreness start to feel good, not bad.

Check out the loseit subreddit and our own weight loss threads, they can be highly motivating.

Sustained weight loss is possible. The formerly morbidly obese tend to find themselves highly motivated.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Fund research to try to negate the laws of thermodynamics.

Yeah.

This is bullshit. No one is arguing against the laws of thermodynamics and it gets really frustrating to see it get brought up constantly in relation to this whole calories in/calories out thing. You need to understand that not all food is used for energy. Thermodynamics really doesn't say anything about *what* happens to food upon consumption.

Sustained weight loss is possible. The formerly morbidly obese tend to find themselves highly motivated.

A study of 47 people who received gastric restrictive surgery in order to lose large amounts of weight look back at their former obese lives and are adamant in not wanting to return to them. No big surprise there.

I don't know if it's fair to call them highly motivated or to point to their success using surgery as a reasonable method for sustained weight loss for most people.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I believe it. Weight is one of the last things that you can basically openly make fun of in mainstream comedies and stuff without much backlash. People still associate it as a negative moral characteristic, so it's deemed okay to make fun of.

This is bullshit. No one is arguing against the laws of thermodynamics and it gets really frustrating to see it get brought up constantly in relation to this whole calories in/calories out thing. You need to understand that not all food is used for energy. Thermodynamics really doesn't say anything about *what* happens to food upon consumption.

And I mean, there's a solid chance that you might have some sort of hormonal imbalance, which research can definitely help correct and is entirely separate from calories. This was on House people!

 

[Deleted member 17706]

And I mean, there's a solid chance that you might have some sort of hormonal imbalance, which research can definitely help correct and is entirely separate from calories. This was on House people!

Hormones are also a huge part of it, but boiling everything down to a number in order to fit a simplified game of addition and subtraction is completely ignoring how food is actually processed and used by the body.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Hormones are also a huge part of it, but boiling everything down to a number in order to fit a simplified game of addition and subtraction is completely ignoring how food is actually processed and used by the body.

Oh, that's definitely true! You're completely right of course, I just think pointing to hormones is a clear example of how weight isn't simply a matter of self control or whatever.

 

[Amir0x]

Fund research to try to negate the laws of thermodynamics.

Yeah.

You know there are studies that show that long term weight loss is more successful than is commonly believed.

My advice is that instead of finding alternatives that don't exist, commit to calorie counting for life. MyFitnessPal makes it really easy. Kitchen scales are a few bucks.

If you are having a hard time managing hunger while consuming your targeted caloric intake, shift your diet to foods that are more filling/sating. Reduce processed carbs but eat the exact same number of calories by replacing them with fresh protein, fresh fat, and fresh vegetables. You'll feel more full at the same caloric intake. Some people don't need to do this as they can eat heavily processed foods at reasonable caloric intake, but some people can't. Personally whenever I feel a hunger pang I think of it as the feel of getting healthier. Likewise, when I feel soreness from lifting weight I think of it as the feel of muscle growing. It becomes a motivator and the pangs and soreness start to feel good, not bad.

Check out the loseit subreddit and our own weight loss threads, they can be highly motivating.

Sustained weight loss is possible. The formerly morbidly obese tend to find themselves highly motivated.

Law of thermodynamics lol. And your link is drastically different - this is for people with type two diabetes, and they had radical intervention... literally weekly for one year and less frequent but still regular intervention for the next 3. And even then, only 45% of patients succeeded at four years. People with type two diabetes where losing weight is even more critical to long-term survival! I agree I think this type of radical intervention is yet another treatment directive we should absolutely pursue for overweight people. But you do not understand what I was saying about research.

What I was saying we need to find medications for is the stuff that helps fight the mental component, the genetic and environmental and psychological aspects that make it difficult to actually maintain weight loss and continue to eat healthy and exercise. This is scientifically proven to be a huge reason why people never sustain weight loss, so I am actually for not being a cagey dumbass and pursuing every avenue that can make someone successful.

 

[Beer Monkey]

What I was saying we need to find medications for is the stuff that helps fight the mental component, the genetic and environmental and psychological aspects that make it difficult to actually maintain weight loss and continue to eat healthy and exercise. This is scientifically proven to be a huge reason why people never sustain weight loss, so I am actually for not being a cagey dumbass and pursuing every avenue that can make someone successful.

Cite at least one peer-reviewed metastudy that shows that genetic and/or environmental factors substantially contribute to our obesity problem. Hell, I'll even take individual studies if they are performed in a metabolic ward or use metrics taken with doubly labeled water instead of self reporting (people lie about what they eat and this has contaminated most research on the matter).

Otherwise, stop with this "scientifically proven" horseshit. Because that's what it is. Horseshit.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Cite at least one peer-reviewed metastudy that shows that genetic and/or environmental factors substantially contribute to our obesity problem. Hell, I'll even take individual studies if they are performed in a metabolic ward or use metrics taken with doubly labeled water instead of self reporting (people lie about what they eat and this has contaminated most research on the matter).

Otherwise, stop with this "scientifically proven" horseshit. Because that's what it is. Horseshit.

Environmental factors as in, the individual's environment. I don't think he's talking about global warming.

 

[MagnaderAlpha]

Why is it that I expected a threat talking about weight being a common reason for bullying to focus mainly on ways to fix the weight problem over fixing the bully problem?

Also, am I the only one who thinks people are to fixated on fixing things they might have no business fixing. It reminds me of the quote from House regarding "Circle Queens":

See, skinny, socially-privileged white people get to draw this neat little circle. And everyone inside the circle is "normal". Anyone outside the circle needs to be beaten, broken and reset so that they can be brought into the circle. Failing that, they should be institutionalized. Or worse - Pitied.

Maybe it never dawned on some people that some overweight people are happy. Sure, some might not be, but maybe, just maybe, whatever depression racked on them stems from being ostracized and demeaned, not unlike many other person thought to be different by the "norm". And hell, maybe a person, an individual has the right to be who they are without fear of persecution or being ganged up against. Who says everybody needs to be fixed? Is it the Abercrombie and Fitch passive aggressive Hitler Youth of the world? It's something the world we live in that being an alcoholic is more accepted than being fat. Oh, you can be a drunk, you can be a criminal, you can be an asshole, just don't be a fatty fat fatass Drinking, smoking, that's all an acceptable vice... just as long as you look good doing it.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Also, am I the only one who thinks people are to fixated on fixing things they might have no business fixing.

Our obesity crisis is a public health issue. I dropped 60 lb five years ago; I did gain 15 of it back eventually and I'm working on dropping it again, because health.

It may be unfair how some people treat obese people. It may seem unfair that obese people have more health problems, but science doesn't give any fucks about what's fair.

If you raise an obese child, you are sentencing that child to a life of discrimination and greater risks of health problems, many life threatening.

And virtually nobody has to raise an obese child. It's abuse, and it's a choice.

 

[MagnaderAlpha]

Our obesity crisis is a public health issue. I dropped 60 lb five years ago; I did gain 15 of it back eventually and I'm working on dropping it again, because health.

It may be unfair how some people treat obese people. It may seem unfair that obese people have more health problems, but science doesn't give any fucks about what's fair.

If you raise an obese child, you are sentencing that child to a life of discrimination and greater risks of health problems, many life threatening.

And virtually nobody has to raise an obese child. It's abuse, and it's a choice.

Of course science don't give a fuck about what's fair. Neither did the Nazis. All they wanted was to create the most fit and lean Master Race possible. To do that, sure, they had to get rid of a few undesirables. People that didn't fit the mold and not JUST the Jews. People thought to be a burden on society. Weed out the weaklings, strengthen the strain. Hitler was a stanch supporter of "Survival of the Fittest" and "Natural Selection", but that humanity needed a push to speed up the process. It's glad to see people like you carrying on that ghost on your shoulders. Truly a future we should all strive to achieve. Fuck individuality, compassion and the tenderness of understanding. Fuck acceptance for who you are, as long as you don't fit within a set guideline of how you should look, or act, you are worthless. It's passive-aggressive Nazi spiel. Always has been, always will be.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Of course science don't give a fuck about what's fair. Neither did the Nazis. All they wanted was to create the most fit and lean Master Race possible. To do that, sure, they had to get rid of a few undesirables. People that didn't fit the mold and not JUST the Jews. People thought to be a burden on society. Weed out the weaklings, strengthen the strain. Hitler was a stanch supporter of "Survival of the Fittest" and "Natural Selection", but that humanity needed a push to speed up the process. It's glad to see people like you carrying on that ghost on your shoulders. Truly a future we should all strive to achieve. Fuck individuality, compassion and the tenderness of understanding. Fuck acceptance for who you are, as long as you don't fit within a set guideline of how you should look, or act, you are worthless. It's passive-aggressive Nazi spiel. Always has been, always will be.

Fat apologism AND godwin law's in two posts. That's gotta be a record somewhere.

 

[jimbor]

Law of thermodynamics lol. And your link is drastically different - this is for people with type two diabetes, and they had radical intervention... literally weekly for one year and less frequent but still regular intervention for the next 3. And even then, only 45% of patients succeeded at four years. People with type two diabetes where losing weight is even more critical to long-term survival! I agree I think this type of radical intervention is yet another treatment directive we should absolutely pursue for overweight people. But you do not understand what I was saying about research.

What I was saying we need to find medications for is the stuff that helps fight the mental component, the genetic and environmental and psychological aspects that make it difficult to actually maintain weight loss and continue to eat healthy and exercise. This is scientifically proven to be a huge reason why people never sustain weight loss, so I am actually for not being a cagey dumbass and pursuing every avenue that can make someone successful.

Alternatively, stop stuffing your piehole at every opportunity. I would've assumed that someone with as much of an appetite for illicit drugs and getting into fisticuffs as yourself would be in better shape.

Seems like the old adage is true that you can't out train a shit diet.

 

[jimbor]

Law of thermodynamics lol. And your link is drastically different - this is for people with type two diabetes, and they had radical intervention... literally weekly for one year and less frequent but still regular intervention for the next 3. And even then, only 45% of patients succeeded at four years. People with type two diabetes where losing weight is even more critical to long-term survival! I agree I think this type of radical intervention is yet another treatment directive we should absolutely pursue for overweight people. But you do not understand what I was saying about research.

What I was saying we need to find medications for is the stuff that helps fight the mental component, the genetic and environmental and psychological aspects that make it difficult to actually maintain weight loss and continue to eat healthy and exercise. This is scientifically proven to be a huge reason why people never sustain weight loss, so I am actually for not being a cagey dumbass and pursuing every avenue that can make someone successful.

Alternatively, stop stuffing your piehole at every opportunity. I would've assumed that someone with as much of an appetite for illicit drugs and getting into fisticuffs as yourself would be in better shape.

Seems like the old adage is true that you can't out train a shit diet.

 

[John Kowalski]

In this forum we obey the laws of THERMODYNAMICS!

 

[Idba]

Of course science don't give a fuck about what's fair. Neither did the Nazis. All they wanted was to create the most fit and lean Master Race possible. To do that, sure, they had to get rid of a few undesirables. People that didn't fit the mold and not JUST the Jews. People thought to be a burden on society. Weed out the weaklings, strengthen the strain. Hitler was a stanch supporter of "Survival of the Fittest" and "Natural Selection", but that humanity needed a push to speed up the process. It's glad to see people like you carrying on that ghost on your shoulders. Truly a future we should all strive to achieve. Fuck individuality, compassion and the tenderness of understanding. Fuck acceptance for who you are, as long as you don't fit within a set guideline of how you should look, or act, you are worthless. It's passive-aggressive Nazi spiel. Always has been, always will be.

The nazis didn't want to/need to create a master race, they believed there already was one, the Aryan race.

But of course, keep on comparing nazis and people that think that child obesity is abuse.

 

[Shredderi]

I spent most of my life obese, and I wish my parents had nipped it in the bud when I was a child before it became "normal" to me. Being fat negatively impacts your life in every way and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Being fat or obese should never be tolerated and I'm glad it's not part of the "politically correct movement", telling kids it's OK to be fat is more damaging than them being bullied for it IMO. If I ever have kids they will not be fat because I know how horrible it is to live that way and I wouldn't want that for them. If you have fat kids start controlling their diet better and do some fun exercise with them, they will thank you when they're older.

Depends. I generally agree with that parents should nip childhood obesity in the bud but bullying should never be tolerated. I'm 26 now and losing weight and in a year I will be at a normal weight. I don't know how long it will still take for me to get rid of the deep seated insecurity and social anxiety that was instilled in me when I was a kid by cruel bullies. I already know that losing the weight won't solve this issue. It'll help but it won't solve it. Of course kids shouldn't be encouraged to be overweight.

 

[Risible]

Every GAF fat thread makes me realize why bullying continues to exist.

 

[marrec]

Every GAF fat thread makes me realize why bullying continues to exist.

This is totally unfair. Not all bullying is based on weight and in general most of the people in here are perfectly respectful to fat people. The ones that aren't stand out...

Alternatively, stop stuffing your piehole at every opportunity. I would've assumed that someone with as much of an appetite for illicit drugs and getting into fisticuffs as yourself would be in better shape.

Seems like the old adage is true that you can't out train a shit diet.

I don't think Ami is arguing for a more nuanced view on fat people because he's a fat guy himself. I think he's just bought into the fat acceptance movement too far and is failing to see the (fat) forest for the trees.

But bringing up that other shit was uncalled for man, no need for that. Argue in good faith without shitting on the other person or you'll just make your own position seem weaker.

In general, if people eat less they will lose weight, a very few will not see that result however.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

So what you're saying is there is no biological standard of beauty? Gotcha >

No, he's saying that something being desirable in a fashionable or socioeconomic sense is not the same thing as fat rolls being a source of aesthetic or sexual stimulation.

 

[slit]

Alternatively, stop stuffing your piehole at every opportunity. I would've assumed that someone with as much of an appetite for illicit drugs and getting into fisticuffs as yourself would be in better shape.

Seems like the old adage is true that you can't out train a shit diet.

Man, is the personal attacks really necessary?

We're discussing something, not going into combat.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Of course science don't give a fuck about what's fair. Neither did the Nazis. All they wanted was to create the most fit and lean Master Race possible. To do that, sure, they had to get rid of a few undesirables. People that didn't fit the mold and not JUST the Jews. People thought to be a burden on society. Weed out the weaklings, strengthen the strain. Hitler was a stanch supporter of "Survival of the Fittest" and "Natural Selection", but that humanity needed a push to speed up the process. It's glad to see people like you carrying on that ghost on your shoulders. Truly a future we should all strive to achieve. Fuck individuality, compassion and the tenderness of understanding. Fuck acceptance for who you are, as long as you don't fit within a set guideline of how you should look, or act, you are worthless. It's passive-aggressive Nazi spiel. Always has been, always will be.

Science giving obese people more diabetes, more heart disease, more orthopedic problems, and shorter lives actually is kind of like the Nazis committing genocide when you think about it.

Oh, wait, that's fucking crazy, never mind.

Congrats on being the first person to ever compare me to Hitler. Some kind of 'achievement unlocked' moment, there.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

If you raise an obese child, you are sentencing that child to a life of discrimination and greater risks of health problems, many life threatening.

And virtually nobody has to raise an obese child. It's abuse, and it's a choice.

Calling it "a choice" is a bit of a stretch. I imagine for the vast majority it's a result of a lack of education and perceivable options. It's unlikely that there are many people who actively desire to make their children obese.