Support NeoGAF

[near]

Watched the final episode, thought it was pretty good. Love the series, perhaps the best opening season I've seen in ages. I think I'll have to sit down and watch it all again to really appreciate it, but on first viewing it's pretty fucking excellent.

 

[ivysaur12]

It makes sense in the context of what the show is purportedly about, as Sam Esmail has explained in several interviews today. It's not really about the hacking of Evil Corp. Another show would find some way to delay the actual hack in order to prolong the drama. The fact the show actually skipped the "Big Hack of the Season™", and that it was successful, is a big exclamation point and clue about what the show is interested in exploring.

It's really about Elliot's journey. This first season is essentially act 1 of the overall story. His realization that he is Mr. Robot is the inciting incident. This finale is in essence the first taste of what the overarching narrative of the show will be, which is Elliot trying to grapple with the difficulties his mental illness creates, whether that's the repercussions of actions he doesn't remember committing, the fallout in his relationships with those around him, or trying to come to terms with the relationship he has with himself.

Except that it's not an either/or situation, and by skipping past one of the most pivotal moments in Elliot's existence that the entire season has been building towards, you shortchange almost every single moment to show the "fallout". It felt so false.

 

[-griffy-]

Except that it's not an either/or situation, and by skipping past one of the most pivotal moments in Elliot's existence that the entire season has been building towards, you shortchange almost every single moment to show the "fallout". It felt so false.

It didn't feel false to me in the context of the show it's on. It felt consistent and surprising in a similar way to how the show treated the big Mr. Robot "twist."

 

[Vastag]

What Joanna (Tyrell's wife) said to Elliot

She is such a badass.

 

[-griffy-]

She is such a badass.

I almost feel like she's going to emerge as the primary "villain" of the show.

 

[Siegcram]

So I finally caught, but it's too late for any coherent analysis.

Just two standouts:

I need the soundtrack like yesterday.

And, most intriguing line of the finale, and maybe the whole season: "I feel like she can hear us." I hope Esmail keeps his word and we get a whole lot more of Joanna Wellick next season.

 

[spock]

Religious tones are pretty strong...probobly going to end up being a Jesus story or some twist of that...The scene with what's her name and the evil crop head about the guy who merc'd him self had some devils advocate vibes as well...

The 2 sides of Elliot remind me of Christ like figure trying to figure out their own relationship with God who is/part of them and who they thought they were as a self...Slater even spits a lines along the God motif.

Lots parallels once you start looking for them but our pattern matches so...

Disciples...

End of the world...

The enemy at the moment being Evil corp. The focus on basically eliminating the debt of the world...thats a pretty heavy mirror to the idea of Jesus paying for the sins of the world. Our debt via his blood, etc.

Him talking to "his father"...the relationship they have.

Also did you notice when he sees the vision of his family in his head, his sister is not present? Kind of weird.

 

[ivysaur12]

See I don't have a problem with this for a few specific reasons.

1. I do not need to see every 'major' event in a story in order for it to have impact. See for example how many major battles where not even written in the Song of Ice of Fire series, despite the huge repercussions that often resulted from them. The impact was in understanding the reverberations, not in seeing something as simple as "a battle took place and it was bad" or in this case "a hack too place and the world went to shit."

2. This show has already made a small habit of time gap moments where Elliot suddenly appears somewhere, and then he's rushing to figure out what happened and eventually we see what happens or hear what happens in explicit detail. This disjointed approach to the narrative is part of what makes the show appealing, because we don't actually know what's real or not. In this case, it's clear Esmail has something in mind for why we didn't see what happens. It's why Elliot spends his time trying desperate to bring back out Mr. Robot and was starting to be unsure if even Tyrell was real.

We the audience are also in his head, and when he has time gaps, we have time gaps. He asks us what happened, but we don't know either. He even says he doesn't trust us anymore. Part of the allure is slowing seeing him piece together what happened, as it's usually never quite what people expect because his reality is so fractured.

3. I don't even think the moment is resolved. It's clear we're going to be returning to what happened once he finds Tyrell. I don't think the finale needed that resolution to be effective, because it was laying track for what is going to happen in season 2 and had some spectacular moments all its own. It's mystery expansion, not a cop out.

Of course we have to see it. The most major point in Elliot's whole life was flipping that switch. Blowing past it -- for reasons that I still don't quite understand -- robs the audience of not just the "cool" moment, but also for the most important moment in Elliot's development.

Even if this makes sense later on in the series or is touched upon again (it obviously will be), it felt like a poor narrative choice to not show the moment of the series. It might be brave storytelling, but it also didn't work. At least not for me.

It didn't feel false to me in the context of the show it's on. It felt consistent and surprising in a similar way to how the show treated the big Mr. Robot "twist."

The Mr. Robot reveal was not surprising. It also made sense. I don't see any good reason -- at least not so far -- to not show the most pivotal moment in your character and your narrative's progression.

 

[-griffy-]

The Mr. Robot reveal was not surprising. It also made sense. I don't see any good reason -- at least not so far -- to not show the most pivotal moment in your character and your narrative's progression.

That's exactly what was surprising about it. They telegraphed it and made it about Elliot's emotional realization rather than it being a big "gotcha!" moment for the audience. We became complicit in the truth as Elliot turns against us. You assume they are going to build it up as a big, shocking twist but they don't. You assume Tyrell is going to successfully ascend the ladder as the "big bad" but he doesn't. You assume the finale will be all about pulling off the big hack but it isn't. It's about Elliot grappling his own inner demons. Even the first scene in the pilot can be assumed to lay the groundwork for a series that is a "hack of the week" format of Elliot being a Robin Hood of sorts for the modern tech world, but it's not. The finale is daring and surprising in its focus in a way the show has been the whole season.

 

[ivysaur12]

That's exactly what was surprising about it. They telegraphed it and made it about Elliot's emotional realization rather than it being a big "gotcha!" moment for the audience. We became complicit in the truth as Elliot turns against us. You assume they are going to build it up as a big, shocking twist but they don't. You assume Tyrell is going to successfully ascend the ladder as the "big bad" but he doesn't. You assume the finale will be all about pulling off the big hack but it isn't. It's about Elliot grappling his own inner demons. Even the first scene in the pilot can be assumed to lay the groundwork for a series that is a "hack of the week" format of Elliot being a Robin Hood of sorts for the modern tech world, but it's not. The finale is daring and surprising in its focus in a way the show has been the whole season.

Sorry, I don't buy this at all. I felt absolutely shortchanged on Elliot's development throughout this season because of what the finale lacked. I don't buy your reading of the season either -- I absolutely think the show believed that the Mr. Robot reveal was of the same level of the Darlene reveal, just that we have the vocabulary to expect the Mr. Robot reveal that we lacked for Darlene's because we were looking in the wrong places. That's okay! I don't care that the Mr. Robot "reveal" was expected, because it made sense, and it was a beautiful story.

If this is "surprising" and "daring" storytelling, then maybe there's a reason why it felt so wrong. Because it didn't work, it didn't connect, and I feel like a large part of Elliot's journey has been shortchanged because of a dumb idea that someone had to make the finale seem "cool" and "unique" by blowing past the most critical, most important moment in Elliot's development thus far.

Doing something cool or different can, sometimes, be a bad idea. I've learned that the hard way working on shows where that was the MO versus trying to telling an honest, emotional story. I saw that in this finale.

I think this is a lovely show. I thought the finale was one of the worse episodes of the season. I'm sure the next season will be great. Nothing about blowing past the moment of truth felt like a good storytelling decision.

 

[bitizenbon]

Of course we have to see it. The most major point in Elliot's whole life was flipping that switch. Blowing past it -- for reasons that I still don't quite understand -- robs the audience of not just the "cool" moment, but also for the most important moment in Elliot's development.

Even if this makes sense later on in the series or is touched upon again (it obviously will be), it felt like a poor narrative choice to not show the moment of the series. It might be brave storytelling, but it also didn't work. At least not for me.

The way you speak of it makes it sound like the story is over. Esmail claims he has 4-5 more seasons in mind; this big hack in the first season/act of the show is barely the biggest moment of the series. Otherwise, what is there to look forward to?

 

[ivysaur12]

The way you speak of it makes it sound like the story is over. Esmail claims he has 4-5 more seasons in mind; this big hack in the first season/act of the show is barely the biggest moment of the series. Otherwise, what is there to look forward to?

Oh, I don't think it's over. I even said this earlier -- even if there is resolution, at this moment, I feel shortchanged on a very important emotional moment that really deflated the finale a few PSIs.

 

[Sober]

The way you speak of it makes it sound like the story is over. Esmail claims he has 4-5 more seasons in mind; this big hack in the first season/act of the show is barely the biggest moment of the series. Otherwise, what is there to look forward to?

Up until that moment, it is the biggest moment of Elliot's life. I didn't hate the skip, but I was at least expecting them to show him and Tyrell actually flip the switch/start the hack, even if it just cut out everything else inbetween and Elliot spent most of the episode trying to piece it together.

 

[-griffy-]

Sorry, I don't buy this at all. I felt absolutely shortchanged on Elliot's development throughout this season because of what the finale lacked. I don't buy your reading of the season either -- I absolutely think the show believed that the Mr. Robot reveal was of the same level of the Darlene reveal, just that we have the vocabulary to expect the Mr. Robot reveal that we lacked for Darlene's because we were looking in the wrong places. That's okay! I don't care that the Mr. Robot "reveal" was expected, because it made sense, and it was a beautiful story.

If this is "surprising" and "daring" storytelling, then maybe there's a reason why it felt so wrong. Because it didn't work, it didn't connect, and I feel like a large part of Elliot's journey has been shortchanged because of a dumb idea that someone had to make the finale seem "cool" and "unique" by blowing past the most critical, most important moment in Elliot's development thus far.

Doing something cool or different can, sometimes, be a bad idea. I've learned that the hard way working on shows where that was the MO versus trying to telling an honest, emotional story. I saw that in this finale.

I think this is a lovely show. I thought the finale was one of the worse episodes of the season. I'm sure the next season will be great. Nothing about blowing past the moment of truth felt like a good storytelling decision.

To me the most important and critical moment in Elliot's development thus far is his realization that he is Mr. Robot. That is what defines his character going forward. The actual execution of the hack itself is almost entirely irrelevant to me. The fallout this causes to Evil Corp, Allsafe, fsociety, and thereby the surrounding characters, is where all the drama comes from. The hacking is all thematically symbolic of the character arcs (representing Elliot's isolation and yearning for connection and all that) in a similar way to the murder tableaus of Hannibal. Elliot exploring why he did what he did, why the Mr. Robot persona would take over and do this, and what that tells Elliot about himself, is what interests me (and the missing time allows a good reason for him to specifically explore and investigate this). I understand your point of view though considering where you see the focus of the show at this point, and if you were anticipating seeing the big hack.

 

[Jay Shadow]

The Mr. Robot reveal was not surprising. It also made sense. I don't see any good reason -- at least not so far -- to not show the most pivotal moment in your character and your narrative's progression.

The most pivotal moment at the end of the season is him not experiencing what you think is his most pivotal necessary moment. If you want his moment of triumph, then you got that in White Rose right before he kissed his sister and the world for him changed. That's when Elliot's story changed from the hack to his own reliability, and the exclamation point on that character progression was triggering this event that has global ramifications and he can't even remember doing it.

 

[ivysaur12]

The most pivotal moment at the end of the season is him not experiencing what you think is his most pivotal necessary moment. If you want his moment of triumph, then you got that in White Rose right before he kissed his sister and the world for him changed. That's when Elliot's story changed from the hack to his own reliability, and the exclamation point on that character progression was triggering this event that has global ramifications and he can't even remember doing it.

Completely disagree. The most pivotal moment in Elliot's story is if he can even trust himself to set out to "save the world". That's where I see the focus of the show, and the show's strengths. All of the identify politics flow through how Elliot sees himself within that lens.

To me the most important and critical moment in Elliot's development thus far is his realization that he is Mr. Robot. That is what defines his character going forward. The actual execution of the hack itself is almost entirely irrelevant to me. The fallout this causes to Evil Corp, Allsafe, fsociety, and thereby the surrounding characters, is where all the drama comes from. The hacking is all thematically symbolic of the character arcs (representing Elliot's isolation and yearning for connection and all that) in a similar way to the murder tableaus of Hannibal. Elliot exploring why he did what he did, why the Mr. Robot persona would take over and do this, and what that tells Elliot about himself, is what interests me (and the missing time allows a good reason for him to specifically explore and investigate this). I understand your point of view though considering where you see the focus of the show at this point, and if you were anticipating seeing the big hack.

That's fair. I'm not really interested in seeing the "big cool thing", but what I found to be the crux of the story felt underserved by a narrative decision that I still see as bizarre.

EDIT: Maybe I'm not being clear. I don't disagree with you on where the crux of the story is. But, for me, it's important to see why Elliot does this in this moment. Where he feels this is the right thing to do. Why Mr. Robot is driving him to do this. I don't want to see the hack for the hack's sake and see the world burn (though, I guess, that's part of the fun). I want to see the moment where Elliot, or, Mr. Robot, makes the decision that this is it and flips the switch, and what that means for Elliot going forward.

The only reason I can see for jumping forward in time is to come back to this at a later point, which I don't love as far as a narrative form.

 

[Dominican Power]

To me the most important and critical moment in Elliot's development thus far is his realization that he is Mr. Robot. That is what defines his character going forward. The actual execution of the hack itself is almost entirely irrelevant to me. The fallout this causes to Evil Corp, Allsafe, fsociety, and thereby the surrounding characters, is where all the drama comes from. The hacking is all thematically symbolic of the character arcs (representing Elliot's isolation and yearning for connection and all that) in a similar way to the murder tableaus of Hannibal. Elliot exploring why he did what he did, why the Mr. Robot persona would take over and do this, and what that tells Elliot about himself, is what interests me (and the missing time allows a good reason for him to specifically explore and investigate this). I understand your point of view though considering where you see the focus of the show at this point, and if you were anticipating seeing the big hack.

This is how pretty much Sam Esmail feels about it. That's what he said the show is about.

 

[Tugatrix]

I can't wait for season 2, I want more, amazing story telling on this is miles way from anything else on tv right now, visually how much more can i praise the story. Yes not showing the actual showdown is anti-climatic but seeing the effects of his hack on the world was really smart, now we can see Elliot trying to puzzle what happen in S2.

 

[Spiderjericho]

I almost feel like she's going to emerge as the primary "villain" of the show.

We know so little about her, White Rabbit, E Corp CEO, etc. We don't know their motivations, end game, etc.

There are definitely a lot of layered nuances to the show. The characters, music, themes all converged and made this one of the best recent TV experiences.

 

[a.wd]

This show...I can't, I just fucking... Everything about the last episode has been amazing, from the Tyrrells wife scene to the soundtrack needing to be in my veins.

Utterly astounding on every level

 

[spock]

Religious tones are pretty strong...probobly going to end up being a Jesus story or some twist of that...The scene with what's her name and the evil crop head about the guy who merc'd him self had some devils advocate vibes as well...

The 2 sides of Elliot remind me of Christ like figure trying to figure out their own relationship with God who is/part of them and who they thought they were as a self...Slater even spits a lines along the God motif.

Lots parallels once you start looking for them but our pattern matches so...

Disciples...

End of the world...

The enemy at the moment being Evil corp. The focus on basically eliminating the debt of the world...thats a pretty heavy mirror to the idea of Jesus paying for the sins of the world. Our debt via his blood, etc.

Him talking to "his father"...the relationship they have.

Also did you notice when he sees the vision of his family in his head, his sister is not present? Kind of weird.

Figured I'd quote my self for those interested on the possible religious take the show might end up having. Just did some googling and theres some discussion about the hidden religious content/meaning. Really interesting tid bit on the names of various characters. Might end up religious the same way the matrix was. Point of mentioning the particular angle is it might give a better idea of the shows direction going forward and its characters...

Anti christ figure perhaps...

 

[Tugatrix]

This show...I can't, I just fucking... Everything about the last episode has been amazing, from the Tyrrells wife scene to the soundtrack needing to be in my veins.

Utterly astounding on every level

About the soundtrack i'm gonna need a playlist and an album

 

[greendomo's ghost]

Up until that moment, it is the biggest moment of Elliot's life. I didn't hate the skip, but I was at least expecting them to show him and Tyrell actually flip the switch/start the hack, even if it just cut out everything else inbetween and Elliot spent most of the episode trying to piece it together.

Honestly, if the prior episode just had that additional scene on it where they're about to flip the switch, and then this last episode was the first episode of season 2, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Really, all the hack pretty much comes down to is a button press at that point, there's not a whole lot missed. Elliot's cohorts are mad that they missed out after all the build up and it seems they're the voice of some of the viewers, heh.

back then yes, but this episode made it look like Tyrell took over the persona

Yeah, I thought it was Tyrell too, sounded like him also and Tyrell "taking credit" for it with his doing the video. Maybe they think they know who it is with Tyrell and Mr.Robot used him as a patsy so they think they know who it was.

 

[Maffis]

Goddamn amazing. Gonna look up the soundtrack now.

 

[labx]

So anyone understand what Tyrell's wife said in his native tongue?

edit: Found it on Reddit


In danish: I"Hvis du har gjort ham noget, så slår jeg dig ihjel." "If you have done something to him (implying harm), I will kill you"

 

[Cornballer]

- Matt Zoller Seitz for NY Mag: Why Mr. Robot Is Not a Great Show (Yet)

 

[17 Seconds]

Good show, but that finale was lame. Too much time spent on the split personality stuff, most of which just comes across as cheesy and unoriginal. The scene with Elliot talking to his family on the jumbotron was painful.

 

[gamma]

Good show, but that finale was lame. Too much time spent on the split personality stuff, most of which just comes across as cheesy and unoriginal. The scene with Elliot talking to his family on the jumbotron was painful.

The split personality stuff is what this whole show is about.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

To me the most important and critical moment in Elliot's development thus far is his realization that he is Mr. Robot. That is what defines his character going forward. The actual execution of the hack itself is almost entirely irrelevant to me. The fallout this causes to Evil Corp, Allsafe, fsociety, and thereby the surrounding characters, is where all the drama comes from. The hacking is all thematically symbolic of the character arcs (representing Elliot's isolation and yearning for connection and all that) in a similar way to the murder tableaus of Hannibal. Elliot exploring why he did what he did, why the Mr. Robot persona would take over and do this, and what that tells Elliot about himself, is what interests me (and the missing time allows a good reason for him to specifically explore and investigate this). I understand your point of view though considering where you see the focus of the show at this point, and if you were anticipating seeing the big hack.

He's already done this many times in the past if the dialogue at the cemetery is to be true. This entire episode was a way to make Christian Slater relevant in season 2. The finale should have been the 9th episode as that made more sense.

 

[17 Seconds]

The split personality stuff is what this whole show is about.

I know it's part of the show, but I'm worried that there will be too much emphasis put on it when there is so much other stuff worth spending time on. They can do lots of stuff with Elliot's mental illness that doesn't just amount to talking to ghosts.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Fantastic finale. Best season debut of a show in many years. Many years. Should get Emmys but wont cause fuck em.

 

[140.85]

Um ok. Pretty disappointing finale. Nothing was wrapped. It was just stuff we already knew and vague groundwork for next season. No satisfying moments. What a let down given how strong the whole season has been.

 

[140.85]

Ehhhhhhh.

I didn't love it, and I honestly thought this was one of the weaker episodes of the season. Blowing past the actual hack and immediate fallout felt like such a narrative cop out, and blowing past that moment robbed so much of the momentum of the season. If we're going to deal with Elliot's headspace since then, do that during. Or in season 2. It just felt like something huge that we've been building to all season was missing from this episode.

Even if there's a longer term pay off, it really felt short changed watching this episode.

Spot on.

 

[CRS]

This finale is going to be where a lot people will decide that Mr. Robot would be enjoyed a lot more as a series after it has completed its run.

Too many people wanting the press of some metaphorical big red button and some cliffhanger.

 

[~Kinggi~]

I honestly dont see where complaints are coming from on the finale. Seems like the people disappointed must have missed the point during the season. I mean its all about what you valued. If you were hyped for some mission impossible bullshit and thats all you got out of the story leading up to it i can see why someone would be disappointed, but to me it was just a side-story to the bigger picture of what was happening. They handled it perfectly i thought.

 

[maharg]

The split personality stuff is what this whole show is about.

Man I hope not. I feel like this show is trying to tackle so much more interesting stuff than a Tyler Durden redux. I don't think it's gotten around to tackling them properly yet, but Eliot's status as a quasi-aware unreliable narrator has never seemed like anything more than a device to me. The 'split personality' part of that didn't even become a meaningful thing until the last third of the season. It also doesn't actually change anything about the overarching plot except as a gotcha.

 

[Amir0x]

Of course we have to see it. The most major point in Elliot's whole life was flipping that switch. Blowing past it -- for reasons that I still don't quite understand -- robs the audience of not just the "cool" moment, but also for the most important moment in Elliot's development.

We don't need to see it actually, and plenty far superior books, movies and television shows have specifically avoided showing the 'big events' they were leading up to because the absence of something raises questions and sometimes lets people picture these things for themselves. Sometimes they don't even resolve the problem, and let people speculate what might have happened - and some of these are some of the greatest works of literature we have.

In this case, I do think they'll show it though. But the reason they didn't yet is extremely obvious, and for me it beyond worked. They didn't show it because they want us, the audience, to be in the dark like Elliot is - because we are an extension of Elliot. They want us to ponder about the mystery of where Tyrell is and what he is planning, which if we saw the event at that moment we clearly would not be asking at all. And that mystery is infinitely more interesting to me then seeing them flick a switch. Exactly how much compelling television do you think that'll be?

*sends hack*
*world goes to shit*

Fascinating. We already know the world went to shit. We saw the result. Those three missing days are where the mystery is, and that's where the compelling television is. And in not telling us, it's stringing us along to the next big reveal where we find out what Elliot's missing memory hid and why Tyrell is no where to be seen. We will see what his plan is, and how he planned it, and what it makes for our characters. That's so much more interesting than seeing the obvious, which even a five year old can guess what happened.

I totally respect you think the show failed to give you the "payoff" you felt you deserved. That's what it is. Doesn't matter to me even the smallest amount because the finale was so spectacular and the mystery that resulted from the absence of that information is far more interesting to me than actually having to see the event in question. But if it's a deal for you, that's fine.

But this show is a long-term plan, and they chose not to because they wanted to plant this new mystery. That's a payoff of a different kind, and it's the long game. Sometimes the best finales are open questions. And I was riveted every second of the episode. And everybody knows I am not easy to please, so I'm glad we got what we did.

I also don't think it was remotely the most important part of Elliot's development. We already saw that moment episodes ago. The hack was an expression of what is going on in his fractured mind, not the most important end game of it.

 

[mm04]

We don't need to see it actually, and plenty far superior books, movies and television shows have specifically avoided showing the 'big events' they were leading up to because the absence of something raises questions and sometimes lets people picture these things for themselves. Sometimes they don't even resolve the problem, and let people speculate what might have happened - and some of these are some of the greatest works of literature we have.

In this case, I do think they'll show it though. But the reason they didn't yet is extremely obvious, and for me it beyond worked. They didn't show it because they want us, the audience, to be in the dark like Elliot is - because we are an extension of Elliot. They want us to ponder about the mystery of where Tyrell is and what he is planning, which if we saw the event at that moment we clearly would not be asking at all. And that mystery is infinitely more interesting to me then seeing them flick a switch. Exactly how much compelling television do you think that'll be?

*sends hack*
*world goes to shit*

Fascinating. We already know the world went to shit. We saw the result. Those three missing days are where the mystery is, and that's where the compelling television is. And in not telling us, it's stringing us along to the next big reveal where we find out what Elliot's missing memory hid and why Tyrell is no where to be seen. We will see what his plan is, and how he planned it, and what it makes for our characters. That's so much more interesting than seeing the obvious, which even a five year old can guess what happened.

I totally respect you think the show failed to give you the "payoff" you felt you deserved. That's what it is. Doesn't matter to me even the smallest amount because the finale was so spectacular and the mystery that resulted from the absence of that information is far more interesting to me than actually having to see the event in question. But if it's a deal for you, that's fine.

But this show is a long-term plan, and they chose not to because they wanted to plant this new mystery. That's a payoff of a different kind, and it's the long game. Sometimes the best finales are open questions. And I was riveted every second of the episode. And everybody knows I am not easy to please, so I'm glad we got what we did.

I also don't think it was remotely the most important part of Elliot's development. We already saw that moment episodes ago. The hack was an expression of what is going on in his fractured mind, not the most important end game of it.

I'm too lazy to write something up myself, but these are pretty much my thoughts as well. I didn't feel cheated at all by not seeing the halt and catch fire moment!

Spoiler

Yeah, I know that's not the correct usage, but indulge me as I love that show too!

 

[ivysaur12]

We don't need to see it actually, and plenty far superior books, movies and television shows have specifically avoided showing the 'big events' they were leading up to because the absence of something raises questions and sometimes lets people picture these things for themselves. Sometimes they don't even resolve the problem, and let people speculate what might have happened - and some of these are some of the greatest works of literature we have.

Sure. This is not one of these examples. At least not for me.

In this case, I do think they'll show it though. But the reason they didn't yet is extremely obvious, and for me it beyond worked. They didn't show it because they want us, the audience, to be in the dark like Elliot is - because we are an extension of Elliot. They want us to ponder about the mystery of where Tyrell is and what he is planning, which if we saw the event at that moment we clearly would not be asking at all. And that mystery is infinitely more interesting to me then seeing them flick a switch. Exactly how much compelling television do you think that'll be?

*sends hack*
*world goes to shit*

Leading up to the hack and pulling the switch, the headspace between Elliot and Tyrell and Mr. Robot and the gun in the popcorn machine -- that could be one of the most interesting parts of Elliot's development thus far, in the hands of a competent writer. Skipping out on all of that lead up to that moment feels absolutely wrong.

When you say things like this:

That's so much more interesting than seeing the obvious, which even a five year old can guess what happened.

I don't think you mean this:

I totally respect you think the show failed to give you the "payoff" you felt you deserved.

You might not have meant this this way, but I'm not a stupid person. I care deeply about the shows I watch. Saying that something I truly believed the show deserved to show was something a "five year old [could] guess what happened" comes across a little insulting, since I earnestly believe that this is what the finale needed in order to tie together Elliot's journey from learning he is Mr. Robot. Maybe you didn't mean it like that, and if so, don't use that analogy.

Again, it's not about Elliot flipping the switch. There's an entire swathe of time missing that's paramount to Elliot's journey throughs season one and the climax of his identity politics. It coming up later in another season (which, maybe, yeah, it will) doesn't take away from the fact that in this episode, I had to watch one of the miss one of the most pivotal moments of the series completely absent from the episode in which I believe it belonged.

You disagree. So does Sam Esmail. That's fine. But it absolutely detracted from my enjoyment of the series and felt like a narrative cop out in solely designed to manufacture tension of "What happened?!" in season 2 due to a cheap trick.

 

[Amir0x]

Sure. This is not one of these examples. At least not for me.

Leading up to the hack and pulling the switch, the headspace between Elliot and Tyrell and Mr. Robot and the gun in the popcorn machine -- that could be one of the most interesting parts of Elliot's development thus far, in the hands of a competent writer. Skipping out on all of that lead up to that moment feels absolutely wrong.

And they didn't skip out on it. Literally this whole episode was Elliot trying to find out what happened, and it's clear that is precisely the very moment we'll be led into next season when Elliot opens up the door. Your whole complaint, then, is essentially: I wanted to see it now, and it's a bad episode because I did not see it now. That's not a very hearty complaint man. At least, it's not a particularly convincing one.

When you say things like this:



I don't think you mean this:


You might not have meant this this way, but I'm not a stupid person. I care deeply about the shows I watch. Saying that something I truly believed the show deserved to show was something a "five year old [could] guess what happened" comes across a little insulting, since I earnestly believe that this is what the finale needed in order to tie together Elliot's journey from learning he is Mr. Robot. Maybe you didn't mean it like that, and if so, don't use that analogy.

I did absolutely mean to say "even a five year old could guess it", but it's also not meant to be disrespectful and I apologize if it came across that way. The way you were saying it, it really is something anyone could have guessed. They hacked it, the world went to shit. We saw the world going to shit, so even that part is no mystery. This part you said here, however:

Again, it's not about Elliot flipping the switch. There's an entire swathe of time missing that's paramount to Elliot's journey throughs season one and the climax of his identity politics. It coming up later in another season (which, maybe, yeah, it will) doesn't take away from the fact that in this episode, I had to watch one of the miss one of the most pivotal moments of the series completely absent from the episode in which I believe it belonged.

Is exactly why the mystery is so compelling to so many people. It seems actually instead of you feeling you needed to see this moment and missed some crucial payoff, you're more miffed that you can't see the moment... this second and this episode right now. And again, I understand you felt the need to see it now. But like most serial type shows, many mysteries are meant to be resolved over multiple seasons, and there's no way I can possibly believe a show which has been as self-assured as this one requires that specific bit of mystery right now, because so much else was shown and so many more fascinating bits were lined up. If we saw the moment as it happens, none of this mystery would have existed and I would be profoundly more bored about seeing what happens next.

The disconnect seems to be you feel this is some sort of demanded thing and unless it was shown in a complete ten episode arc, it's somehow not giving the audience the payoff it deserves. That's what makes no sense to me. We got plenty of payoff. In episode after episode, and in this one as well. They chose to segment this part because if they showed us what happened there would be no mystery right now about any of that, and that mystery is extremely riveting television already. And it's not even season 2. They made the right narrative choice for a long-term goal, and they were able to do that because they so effectively have lined up all their shots this whole time. Now, as a viewer, I trust and respect their large plan, and absolutely loved what they did show. I do not feel they deprived anyone of payoff.

 

[ivysaur12]

And they didn't skip out on it. Literally this whole episode was Elliot trying to find out what happened, and it's clear that is precisely the very moment we'll be led into next season when Elliot opens up the door. Your whole complaint, then, is essentially: I wanted to see it now, and it's a bad episode because I did not see it now. That's not a very hearty complaint man. At least, it's not a particularly convincing one.



I did absolutely mean to say "even a five year old could guess it", but it's also not meant to be disrespectful and I apologize if it came across that way. The way you were saying it, it really is something anyone could have guessed. They hacked it, the world went to shit. We saw the world going to shit, so even that part is no mystery. This part you said here, however:



Is exactly why the mystery is so compelling to so many people. It seems actually instead of you feeling you needed to see this moment and missed some crucial payoff, you're more miffed that you can't see the moment... this second and this episode right now. And again, I understand you felt the need to see it now. But like most serial type shows, many mysteries are meant to be resolved over multiple seasons, and there's no way I can possibly believe a show which has been as self-assured as this one requires that specific bit of mystery right now, because so much else was shown and so many more fascinating bits were lined up. If we saw the moment as it happens, none of this mystery would have existed and I would be profoundly more bored about seeing what happens next.

The disconnect seems to be you feel this is some sort of demanded thing and unless it was shown in a complete ten episode arc, it's somehow not giving the audience the payoff it deserves. That's what makes no sense to me. We got plenty of payoff. In episode after episode, and in this one as well. They chose to segment this part because if they showed us what happened there would be no mystery right now about any of that, and that mystery is extremely riveting television already. And it's not even season 2. They made the right narrative choice for a long-term goal, and they were able to do that because they so effectively have lined up all their shots this whole time. Now, as a viewer, I trust and respect their large plan, and absolutely loved what they did show. I do not feel they deprived anyone of payoff.

I cannot judge a show based on what they may or may not do a season or seasons down the road. I cannot judge an episode based on goodwill that has been built up if the episode before me is disappointing because maybe, someday, I'll get what I want. Especially when it comes across as a contrived method of creating a mystery for season two instead of a cleaner narrative arc of Elliot's journey. Elliot trying to retrace his steps from 109 to 110 during 201 is frustrating to me as a viewer, because I don't see what that accomplishes besides keeping information from the audience.

Instead, it's manufacturing a mystery instead of giving us the climax to Elliot's development in his interaction with Mr. Robot and Tyrell and his decision to flip the switch to fsociety. I don't think I'm some petulant child screaming for something now. I think it's fine if stories have longer arcs. Obviously. I also feel as if keeping information from the audience in a place where it obviously belongs is more frustrating than rewarding, and in this particular instance, it felt inorganic.

It's not a riveting mystery, at least not one I'm that interested in, because of the way in which it was kept from us. I think trying to figure out "what happened when I was blacked out" is a lot less interesting than seeing Elliot's headspace through his decision to do whatever he did, and then watching the consequences unfold. More convention narrative structure? Sure. But, at least in the way I'm in envisioning it in my head, it's a much cleaner and rewarding arc for the viewer. Most of 110 feels like it could be the opening of 201.

 

[Amir0x]

What it accomplishes is the precise same thing the show has been so astonishingly effective at doing this entire season, and thus is in keeping with the quality and intent of the show to date: to keep the audience off center, to keep us in the dark whenever Elliot is in the dark (because we are in Elliot's head too, as this episode makes explicit), to keep us guessing what is real and what is not and why Elliot's headspace works the way it does.

In fact, handling things the way you wanted would have been completely out of character from the show and out of tone. We are used to not seeing what Elliot doesn't see at this point. We are used to having the narrative come at us in fits and goes, and having to slowly reveal what's really going on as it dawns upon Elliot. That is very obviously central to the way Sam has set this whole thing up from the word "go." What surprises me is that you expected it to be different because it was episode 10 of one season, considering what we know about the larger plan, considering so much else was revealed in so many episodes already and in the finale. Despite not fully understanding how to interpret the puzzle pieces, many new bits of critical information were clearly revealed to us. And it did all of that whilst still laying down the tracks on a mystery involving yet another one of Elliot's black outs.

This is who Elliot is, and as we see big events are pivotal to his headspace going haywire. Indeed, it would make no sense if Elliot's headspace didn't malfunction when he was doing what he did. In order to bring Mr. Robot out, he had to attempt to call the police on himself. That is how his head works. And since he blacked out and we are an extension of his headspace, we didn't get to see it either. We're Elliot.

So the episode was consistent, was keeping with what we have seen in every episode and was written precisely as the characters have shown they would be in this series. You simply wanted it all to work out of tone with the show, as far as I can tell.

 

[kingkitty]

season 2 is going to be interesting

hopefully Mr. Robot can keep up the momentum and not fall into a narrative hole about big bad conspiracies. that's my biggest fear.

 

[Josh with a J]

Did anyone else think that the psychiatrist was about to fall for that dude in the beginning?

 

[ivysaur12]

What it accomplishes is the precise same thing the show has been so astonishingly effective at doing this entire season, and thus is in keeping with the quality and intent of the show to date: to keep the audience off center, to keep us in the dark whenever Elliot is in the dark (because we are in Elliot's head too, as this episode makes explicit), to keep us guessing what is real and what is not and why Elliot's headspace works the way it does.

In fact, handling things the way you wanted would have been completely out of character from the show and out of tone. We are used to not seeing what Elliot doesn't see at this point. We are used to having the narrative come at us in fits and goes, and having to slowly reveal what's really going on as it dawns upon Elliot. That is very obviously central to the way Sam has set this whole thing up from the word "go." What surprises me is that you expected it to be different because it was episode 10 of one season, considering what we know about the larger plan, considering so much else was revealed in so many episodes already and in the finale. Despite not fully understanding how to interpret the puzzle pieces, many new bits of critical information were clearly revealed to us. And it did all of that whilst still laying down the tracks on a mystery involving yet another one of Elliot's black outs.

This is who Elliot is, and as we see big events are pivotal to his headspace going haywire. Indeed, it would make no sense if Elliot's headspace didn't malfunction when he was doing what he did. In order to bring Mr. Robot out, he had to attempt to call the police on himself. That is how his head works. And since he blacked out and we are an extension of his headspace, we didn't get to see it either. We're Elliot.

So the episode was consistent, was keeping with what we have seen in every episode and was written precisely as the characters have shown they would be in this series. You simply wanted it all to work out of tone with the show, as far as I can tell.

Except it's not effective and it falls completely flat. Being "cool" and "different" and "daring", something this show has excelled at, does not always lead to the correct narrative choices. You have balance the idea of being daring and cool and that moment with also being true to your emotional arc. This is not that.

I honestly couldn't disagree with you more on what the show is. I find it cheap and insulting to the audience to say "whoops, no, sorry, you can't see that! Wink, see it later!' the same way that characters keeping information that audience is already aware of from each other is so endlessly frustrating for a viewer. I completely disagree with the notion that Elliot "blacking out" is something that needed to happen. We've never had a moment in the show thus far where critical information just disappeared due to time lost -- from the moment the series has begun, we've been on Elliot's journey with him with Mr. Robot at his side. Yes, we didn't know Darlene was his sister and yes, Elliot's headspace and relationship with both Mr. Robot and the material world is the linchpin of the series, but that does not necessarily including removing critical information for the viewer for something that does not service any character arc and only keeps information from the viewer to come to it at a later date in order to concoct a mystery for season two. To rob the viewer of the moment in which we see the culmination of Elliot's progression because of a "reason" that has thus far not existed within the show's world and only serves to keep the audience from knowledge instead of serving any character fact is insulting.

The most frustrating aspect of this show is that, up until now, I really thought it was trying to do something wholly unique and original. Using a cheap narrative trick like this makes me question the drive in season two as well as the series's longevity.

I have nothing else to say. We're not going to agree on this. You've articulated your point well, I just don't agree and the more I think about it, the less I think the finale served the show and was an extremely poor narrative choice.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

Don't know how I feel about the whole secret society thing, finale was pretty whatever for me overall compared to the lead-in episode, and all the nihilism splayed over everything and everyone kinda seemed like a cop out for something more revelatory about Eliot and his madness. Hope next season handles the eyes wide shut orgy people in a more subtle way and not in your face "We pull the strings!" kind of cliche.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

love the show. but where the fuck is the danish dude and who the hell were the asian guy at the end.

 

[Josh with a J]

love the show. but where the fuck is the danish dude and who the hell were the asian guy at the end.

Asian dude at the end is White Rose (B.D. Wong)

 

[Crud]

love the show. but where the fuck is the danish dude and who the hell were the asian guy at the end.

Did you watch the show?