I think the game has enough positive reviews to outweigh that one, but technically the "the game is too hard" angle kind of irritates me. If you are writing for casual gamers, then it's okay, but I don't think Roger Ebert reviews movies with a casual fan in mind and I don't think game reviewers should either...I know if even PepsimanvsJoe here is saying it's hard, it's actually really hard, but come on...I've never wanted to say the two words before but seriously need to "man up" and remember how hard games were in the good ol days
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Ms. 'Splosion Man |OT| Man, I feel like a woman
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PepsimanVsJoe
Member
I stopped paying attention to Giantbomb eons ago.
If you have people that suck badly enough at videogames they can make almost anything they play look awful.
Really definitely totally need to put more time in the multiplayer. It's too massive a part of the game to get less than a paragraph in my review.
EDIT: Hard in the wrong way can be a thing too at times. It's pretty easy to die if your timing isn't perfect, which can be way annoying.
Read the review and yeah I get where he's coming from and agree on a number of things. There's a lot of trial & error game-design going on and the game isn't quite perfect for handling that sort of thing (especially when you know what you're supposed to do but continue to die over the tiniest things).
If you have people that suck badly enough at videogames they can make almost anything they play look awful.
Really definitely totally need to put more time in the multiplayer. It's too massive a part of the game to get less than a paragraph in my review.
EDIT: Hard in the wrong way can be a thing too at times. It's pretty easy to die if your timing isn't perfect, which can be way annoying.
Read the review and yeah I get where he's coming from and agree on a number of things. There's a lot of trial & error game-design going on and the game isn't quite perfect for handling that sort of thing (especially when you know what you're supposed to do but continue to die over the tiniest things).
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
The GB didn't say it was too hard. They said it was hard in the wrong ways. Brad actually liked Super Meat Boy even though it was hard as balls.Gaspode_T said:
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Also one thing I'll definitely point out about one of the later stages.
You have to go up a vertical shaft by using barrels.
The thing about barrels is that depending on which direction you're holding when you splode you'll go left, right, or straight up, it's also fixed so you can't do a zig-zag or change directions easily if you make a mistake.
So in this shaft there are a number of electric walls that are sitting above so you gotta change directions to make sure you hit the safe barrels. Problem is thanks to the camera you can't see far enough above you. So you die a few times until you get the path right, then there are a number of misc. deaths for all the times you hold the wrong direction.
There's also this one stage that involves jumping on a platform and then jumping off of a wall. Problem is unless you're practically mashing the button before you even touch the wall you're likely to miss the wall-jump and die horribly because the wall disappears practically as soon as you touch it. I believe it's tied to a switch on the floor so it only lasts so long, but if it lasted just another second it wouldn't be that much of a problem.
There's a number of issues like this throughout the game. Minor sure but they add up. Then again I'm not sure how minor they are when they mean the difference between life and death.
EDIT: This is totally going to bite me in the ass considering I gave the game a B.
You have to go up a vertical shaft by using barrels.
The thing about barrels is that depending on which direction you're holding when you splode you'll go left, right, or straight up, it's also fixed so you can't do a zig-zag or change directions easily if you make a mistake.
So in this shaft there are a number of electric walls that are sitting above so you gotta change directions to make sure you hit the safe barrels. Problem is thanks to the camera you can't see far enough above you. So you die a few times until you get the path right, then there are a number of misc. deaths for all the times you hold the wrong direction.
There's also this one stage that involves jumping on a platform and then jumping off of a wall. Problem is unless you're practically mashing the button before you even touch the wall you're likely to miss the wall-jump and die horribly because the wall disappears practically as soon as you touch it. I believe it's tied to a switch on the floor so it only lasts so long, but if it lasted just another second it wouldn't be that much of a problem.
There's a number of issues like this throughout the game. Minor sure but they add up. Then again I'm not sure how minor they are when they mean the difference between life and death.
EDIT: This is totally going to bite me in the ass considering I gave the game a B.
SparksterMeta0
Member
So apparently, this game has Retro City Rampage in an arcade section in World 1.
Bad news? RCR is not even out yet, so we can't even download a demo!
Bad news? RCR is not even out yet, so we can't even download a demo!
Ahhh, that's a type of frustration that does indeed drive people insane so I get why he would dock it some points for that. I just think if it were easier then people might clear it too quickly and say the game has little replay value or something like that (I remember this being said about Nin2-Jump), I think it's fine to give it a B with caveat that it's hard or a C with clear explanation of why.
Seeing someone knock down the score of Super Meat Boy for being hard would be kind of strange, I just was confused how Ms Spolsion Man would not be in the same bucket of "you know you're in a challenge with this one"
Seeing someone knock down the score of Super Meat Boy for being hard would be kind of strange, I just was confused how Ms Spolsion Man would not be in the same bucket of "you know you're in a challenge with this one"
I find Ms Splosion Man requires different skills than Super Meat Boy. In Super Meat Boy it's all about precision. Ms Splosion Man takes away some of that precision, but in return you really need to learn the pathways of certain sections of the game in order to be able to pass them. I don't mind this type of gameplay but I can see how it turns others off.Gaspode_T said:
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
I laughed pretty hard at the whole "powered by beard" intro. I will buy it eventually.
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
Bought it tonight and I loooooooooooove it. I love twisted pixels design and humor except the characters looks often too much like plastic. But overall it's a pretty good game for 800 msp.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I unlocked/bought the original intro. While hilarious in itself, I read the description included with it. It makes it even better.godhandiscen said:
FateBreaker
Member
I love this game, but I agree with the difficult remark. It's not tough. Well, I'm sure it is, but after Super Meat Boy, nothing is too tough in the platformer world. With that said, Ms. Splosion Man has a few spots where you get thrown a cheap trick at the end of this huge platforming sequence. It's irritating and, indeed, cheap.
But that's my only beef (heh) with the game. Everything else is absolutely excellent. Twisted Pixel poured so much charisma and excitement to this. They also built on more excellent platforming ideas for the Splosion Man universe. For instance, I love the car-hopping scenes. The Brad Star route was hilarious, as was the intro to the controls. This is the type of humor I was looking for in Comic Jumper. Comic Jumper tried too hard and was just unfunny most of the time. This is funny.
And the music is great. I really have a thing for it, and I'm not completely sure why.
But that's my only beef (heh) with the game. Everything else is absolutely excellent. Twisted Pixel poured so much charisma and excitement to this. They also built on more excellent platforming ideas for the Splosion Man universe. For instance, I love the car-hopping scenes. The Brad Star route was hilarious, as was the intro to the controls. This is the type of humor I was looking for in Comic Jumper. Comic Jumper tried too hard and was just unfunny most of the time. This is funny.
And the music is great. I really have a thing for it, and I'm not completely sure why.
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
I'm pretty sure she was the inspiration for the design of Ms Splosionman
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
GB's review doesn't make any sense because Bead reviewed Splosion Man and gave it a 4. He's basically docked a point for it being too hard for him which is kinda pathetic. Anyone who watched the QL could see it coming, though.
I would say anyone thinking of buying this really needs to play through the first game beforehand. It's a lot tougher, and a lot bigger in scale.
I would say anyone thinking of buying this really needs to play through the first game beforehand. It's a lot tougher, and a lot bigger in scale.
DeadRockstar
Member
PepsimanVsJoe illustrated pretty well the only real issue I've encountered with the game so far. Areas that you can't figure out what to do in time to implement it. I'm not sure I class that as difficulty so much as cheap/bad design. Or maybe artificial difficulty.
It's also aggravated by the checkpointing. I don't have issues with fairly spaced out checkpoints, because landing long sections of platforming is satisfying. When you encounter something cheap during a section though, it basically forces you to replay the entire thing without it really being your fault. You end up replaying sections that are easy to you while you figure out the cheap bits.
That said, so far no section has taken me long enough to be frustrating and I'm still having fun.
It's also aggravated by the checkpointing. I don't have issues with fairly spaced out checkpoints, because landing long sections of platforming is satisfying. When you encounter something cheap during a section though, it basically forces you to replay the entire thing without it really being your fault. You end up replaying sections that are easy to you while you figure out the cheap bits.
That said, so far no section has taken me long enough to be frustrating and I'm still having fun.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
You didn't play Splosion Man, then?DeadRockstar said:
DeadRockstar
Member
cjelly said:
I did. A long while ago. That's mostly irrelevant though. Anything the original did wouldn't excuse design flaws in the sequel, even if they were carried over.
I was playing the game prior to it coming out, and I completely agree with Brad.
There are tons of areas in the game where there are a ton of platforms you need to jump over with such knowledge that you have to die a few times in order to figure out the puzzle. Even the earliest levels with the jumping between cars had some issues for me, and the different types of shooting objects can confuse you as well.
Even on the Giant Bomb Quick Look you can see some of the problems -- like when Brad tried to fall from the zipline, only to fall onto the "lip" of it at the end, and crash into an electric field. I know that's happened to me plenty of times.
There are tons of areas in the game where there are a ton of platforms you need to jump over with such knowledge that you have to die a few times in order to figure out the puzzle. Even the earliest levels with the jumping between cars had some issues for me, and the different types of shooting objects can confuse you as well.
Even on the Giant Bomb Quick Look you can see some of the problems -- like when Brad tried to fall from the zipline, only to fall onto the "lip" of it at the end, and crash into an electric field. I know that's happened to me plenty of times.
Has this been mentioned yet? From Ars Technica: -
I had a quick blast on it this morning and it's great, as expected. I do understand some of the criticisms though, especially about sometimes having to die in order to learn what to do, but the game is still a lot of fun IMO.
Sounds good!
I had a quick blast on it this morning and it's great, as expected. I do understand some of the criticisms though, especially about sometimes having to die in order to learn what to do, but the game is still a lot of fun IMO.
I adored Splosion Man and I generally love and know what I'm getting into with Twisted Pixel's vibe, but man, I was ready to unlock the full game right from thy amazing opening Beard video. I've only played the first level, and I won't get to play more of anything until next week, but I bought the full game with glee.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I just finished the game myself and most of what Brad said is spot on. Compared to meatboy, ms Splosion man does take forever to start running, wall jumping is harder to pull off, and the physics are crazy when platforming on horizontal moving platforms. Whats worse is you still have to wait to recharge your jumps after landing which makes no sense to me. He was right about the spruced up graphics getting in the way of the gameplay too. One level in a tight space there was a pink Ms Splosion man, Pink explosions, a pink barrel, a pink laser, and some pink barrels and lasers blurred out in the back ground. It took me multiple times to get past that part just because i couldn't tell where Ms Splosion Man is. I fell victim to to the foreground objects and dramatic camera angle changes myself a bit too.
I think the levels themselves are great though, and while it could be better, Ms Splosion Man's controls aren't game breaking by any means. It definitely has its dose of trial and error, but I don't think the check pointing is near as bad as brad suggests and to make the checkpoints more frequent would break much of the don't stop for nothing level design that Twisted Pixel designed for this game.
As a sequel to Splosion Man, Ms Splosion Man is a great follow up, but with Super Meat Boy in town it really needed to polish some more stuff up if it wants to be recognized as a 5/5 or 4/5 type of game. 3/5 is still pretty decent and isn't meant to discourage people who want to buy the game from buying it. At worst its more of a recommendation to the people on the fence that this game isn't anything special and that they can skip it if they want.
I think the levels themselves are great though, and while it could be better, Ms Splosion Man's controls aren't game breaking by any means. It definitely has its dose of trial and error, but I don't think the check pointing is near as bad as brad suggests and to make the checkpoints more frequent would break much of the don't stop for nothing level design that Twisted Pixel designed for this game.
As a sequel to Splosion Man, Ms Splosion Man is a great follow up, but with Super Meat Boy in town it really needed to polish some more stuff up if it wants to be recognized as a 5/5 or 4/5 type of game. 3/5 is still pretty decent and isn't meant to discourage people who want to buy the game from buying it. At worst its more of a recommendation to the people on the fence that this game isn't anything special and that they can skip it if they want.
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
Yeah, that's what I meant. She is like Dee-Dee dancing on her toes through a big laboratory and causing chaos.kodecraft said:
GazzaScotland
Member
I think alot of the problem is people are thinking "ohh, hard platformer" and then automatically comparing it to Super Meat Boy. While they share similarities at the end of the day they are different games and play differently, obviously. Better to compare it to the first 'Splosion Man and not a different IP.
DeadRockstar
Member
GazzaScotland said:
I agree. I don't buy the argument that Super Meat Boy's existence invalidates Ms Splosion Man's character movement. That's akin to suggesting Gears 3 better be faster and more dynamic because Vaniquish came out after Gears 2.
If there's a problem, I'd say it's more likely to be the level design not suiting the controls well enough. SMB is a marriage of level design and controls that work perfectly together, but that doesn't mean every game has to control like SMB.
I'm not saying there's no room for improvement in MSM's controls, but just mimicking SMB isn't the answer I don't think.
Edit: The Sonic comparison is right on. The experience is much more Sonic than SMB.
Heart Attack
Member
thepotatoman said:
I consider Splosion man to be one of the best games on XBLA. Out of all of the complaints you named, that is the one i acknowledge, and the rest do not affect the enjoyment i get out of the game. The sequel is so much better than the original, especially shown in the level design. The levels are done in a way that promote speed runs.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
GazzaScotland said:
I agree.
I participated in the multiplayer beta for this; fantastic.
Will buy it in a few days, when i finish the shitty XBLA version of Half-Minute Hero.
Just a question for people who played more than me? is the running speed of the main character the same as the first game or slower?
edit. yeah, remember, not every platformer is Super Meat Boy. SM is similar to Sonic, as you said.
another edit. i think Twisted Pixel said, early in development, that this one was going to be easier than Splosion Man 1.
Will buy it in a few days, when i finish the shitty XBLA version of Half-Minute Hero.
Just a question for people who played more than me? is the running speed of the main character the same as the first game or slower?
edit. yeah, remember, not every platformer is Super Meat Boy. SM is similar to Sonic, as you said.
The reason being?FTH said:
another edit. i think Twisted Pixel said, early in development, that this one was going to be easier than Splosion Man 1.
Darklord said:
Why did you needlessly quote that post when I already explained my point beforehand? But sure, instead compare it to the first game, which Brad scored and gave a higher score. I think if he'd go back and play it now he'd dock it points again, because this is a post-super meat boy world and Brad loved that game. He seems to be letting it cloud his judgment that this is a completely different platformer, and has a different mindset. SMB has extremely quick, smaller scale levels with instant restarts because you will die hundreds of times on the same level. Splosion Man is much larger scale and breaks the levels into checkpoints. You need to redo certain parts because of trial and error, but it's rare to get stuck in a spot where you're dying 5+ times once you know what to do.
He also said "stupid hard" games like Trials, SMB...and Limbo? Limbo?! That game wasn't even close to the level the other two he mentioned were, plus that game DID have trial and error kill puzzles that set you back, too.
If anything I'm just glad we're at the point where we're getting these content loaded, completely different style platformers for $10.
DeadRockstar
Member
Papercuts said:
Quote from the Limbo review:
"You won't manage to avoid most of those dangers the first time, because so much of Limbo's action centers on brutally immediate, unforgiving environmental hazards. A blade might come swinging out of nowhere and slice you in half, or a gigantic spider could impale you on a wickedly sharp leg almost before you realize it's there. There's really never a moment when you're not in danger of meeting some grisly end or other, and most of those ends you will not see coming. Note however that the timing and triggers in each scenario are the same every time, so getting through the game requires a lot of trial and error, dying to some unforeseen menace two, three, four times before you work out exactly what you need to do and how fast you need to do it to keep yourself alive and continue on."
That's a 5 star review as well. Food for thought.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
I still need to finish the first game but this one looks very good.