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[RoboFu]

Nah PS1 shot to the top because of Arcade ports. it wasn't until a year or 2 later that deeper games came and became popular. I mean the big line up was literally Ridge Racer, Tekken, Air combat, MK3, NBA Jams, Toshiden, Time Crisis, Soul Edge.

But I do agree that Sega put too much faith into its arcade ports and not enough content. They should have had a golden axe, and phantasy star, a sonic....ect in the first 2 years.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Nah PS1 shot to the top because of Arcade ports. it wasn't until a year or 2 later that deeper games came and became popular. I mean the big line up was literally Ridge Racer, Tekken, Air combat, MK3, NBA Jams, Toshiden, Time Crisis, Soul Edge.

But I do agree that Sega put too much faith into its arcade ports and not enough content. They should have had a golden axe, and phantasy star, a sonic....ect in the first 2 years.

PS1 shot to the top because it had great games across every genre imaginable.

In terms of the western lineup, if you weren't a fan of fighting games then it seriously diminishes the Saturn's lineup.

Platformers are the weakest genre, as a MegaDrive owner who primarily played games like Sonic, Rocket Knight, Kid Chameleon, Dynamite Headdy etc Saturn was a massive disappointment at the time.

I wanted 3D platformers as Saturn was a huge let down in that department compared to PS1 and N64. I used to run around the levels in NiGHTS imagining I was playing a 3D platformers because I had no other choice, meanwhile all my friends were playing Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot.

Seeing Sonic Xtreme in magazines was where I made my decision to get a Saturn. That game's cancellation was one of the biggest blows for Saturn in the west.

 

[RoboFu]

PS1 shot to the top because it had great games across every genre imaginable.

In terms of the western lineup, if you weren't a fan of fighting games then it seriously diminishes the Saturn's lineup.

Platformers are the weakest genre, as a MegaDrive owner who primarily played games like Sonic, Rocket Knight, Kid Chameleon, Dynamite Headdy etc Saturn was a massive disappointment at the time.

I wanted 3D platformers as Saturn was a huge let down in that department compared to PS1 and N64. I used to run around the levels in NiGHTS imagining I was playing a 3D platformers because I had no other choice, meanwhile all my friends were playing Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot.

Seeing Sonic Xtreme in magazines was where I made my decision to get a Saturn. That game's cancellation was one of the biggest blows for Saturn in the west.

im not talking 4 years in... I am talking super popular launch games. I think maybe something like arc the lad in Japan might have been big for that country but in NA it was all games like ridge racer, toshidens that were pushing consoles.


Most successful PS1 launch games
Based on sales and critical reception, these were some of the most notable and successful launch titles available at the PlayStation's release in North America:

• Ridge Racer: Namco's arcade racing hit was rebuilt for the PS1, delivering impressive 3D racing that set a new benchmark for the genre. It was widely praised as the best launch title for the system.
• Battle Arena Toshinden: This 3D fighting game became a commercial success for the PlayStation, selling out in its first week. Critics at the time praised its vibrant character roster, dynamic camera, and detailed stage designs.
• Rayman: Although not a PlayStation exclusive, this imaginative 2D platformer from Ubisoft became a hit on the console and the start of a popular franchise.
• Air Combat: Originally based on an arcade game, this combat flight simulator from Namco was praised for its action and cinematic cutscenes, and it eventually led to the long-running Ace Combat series.
• Twisted Metal: Released shortly after the launch window in November 1995, this vehicular combat game became a highly successful first-party franchise for Sony.

lol at Rayman but it was a product of the times I guess.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

im not talking 4 years in... I am talking super popular launch games.

4 years in?

I'm talking about Christmas 1996 which was early gen, that's where PlayStation really took off in the UK.

So many kids in my school had one for that Christmas with most having Crash Bandicoot, Resident Evil and WipEout 2097.

A few of them could've been receiving Saturns with Sonic Xtreme, but Sega shat the bed something fierce.

I remember Virgin Megastores dropping Saturn after that. Sega released some excellent games throughout 1996, but it really lacked a killer app for that pivotal Christmas period.

Mario 64 vs Crash was the story of that Christmas in the US just like Donkey Kong Country vs Sonic & Knuckles 2 years prior, Sonic didn't even turn up this time.

https://retrocdn.net/images/6/61/NextGeneration_US_24.pdf

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

In west, the PS1 was a success because of five games maybe six
Rayman, Air Combat, Twisted Metal, NFL Gameday, Toshinden

Ridge Racer is overrated, mk3 was a waste of 12 million, numbers don't lie, and early 1996, Resident Evil.
The Saturn's problem is lower 3D performance, higher price, and soulless games.

Despite low sales, Jumping Flash, Wipeout together with Doom, and the games already mentioned created the perception that the PlayStation was about 3D.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

SEGA was only worth $2 billion at their height, and you expected them to splash out over $500 million on just R&D?
Arcade was different back then, no way could SEGA bring home just the Fujitsu 5 DPSs that made up part of the graphics system of Model 1

I don't agree with you over the N64 btw, I felt it was the worst chipset of that generation Low 20 FPS games, terrible screen res and where a lot of SNES games sounded better than the software music you got off the N64. I was glad SEGA turned down that poor chipset myself

I think they could figured out a good 32-bit system. They had no problem making solid Genesis and DC systems. It was that 32x/Saturn era which was total junk some reason.

 

[diffusionx]

4 years in?

I'm talking about Christmas 1996 which was early gen, that's where PlayStation really took off in the UK.

So many kids in my school had one for that Christmas with most having Crash Bandicoot, Resident Evil and WipEout 2097.

A few of them could've been receiving Saturns with Sonic Xtreme, but Sega shat the bed something fierce.

I remember Virgin Megastores dropping Saturn after that. Sega released some excellent games throughout 1996, but it really lacked a killer app for that pivotal Christmas period.

Mario 64 vs Crash was the story of that Christmas in the US just like Donkey Kong Country vs Sonic & Knuckles 2 years prior, Sonic didn't even turn up this time.

https://retrocdn.net/images/6/61/NextGeneration_US_24.pdf

if you find the screenshots from their 1995 comparison, it's less conclusive but they acknowledge the PSX is a better buy. But I do think this makes it clear that the battle was already over and one won convincingly a year later.

The sad thing is that Sega in the US didn't even take their suggestion to keep the Saturn viable into 1997 and 1998 and just cut it loose.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Despite low sales, Jumping Flash, Wipeout together with Doom, and the games already mentioned created the perception that the PlayStation was about 3D.

Yeah Doom and Final Doom were also pretty big in the PlayStation's first year.

Meanwhile Saturn's answer was off brand knock offs like Robotica and Ghen War, you're waiting until Alien Trilogy and Exhumed in late 96 to get decent FPS games on Saturn.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Back to that Next Generation, the below page is uncanny, these were the 3 games I owned before Christmas 1996 and I don't think any of Sega's games after 1996 lived up to those.

Reading magazines I had Sonic Xtreme and Daytona CCE on my list for Santa (yeah, while in my teens), the first game got cancelled and the second one was a huge let down.

Fighting Vipers, Virtua Cop 2, Virtual On and Worldwide Soccer were all decent but Tomb Raider was the only game I ended up getting.

 

[Parazels]

Was Tony Hawk even possible on the Saturn? I'm struggling to recall anything of comparable complexity on Sega's console.

 

[RoboFu]

Was Tony Hawk even possible on the Saturn? I'm struggling to recall anything of comparable complexity on Sega's console.

tony hawk was on the ngage .. so of course. TH came out well past Saturn's end date. 1999 I think. Saturn was discontinued in 1998 in most of the world.

 

[Parazels]

tony hawk was on the ngage .. so of course. TH came out well past Saturn's end date. 1999 I think.

 

[nkarafo]

It was doing 3D that's it. There is no pseudo 3D or whatnot. Back then there wasn't a full generation of 3D consoles to build insight and make decisions, so the way they decided to make 3D made just as much sense as others, and it worked. 3D games were released and they were perfectly fine. And the hardware was also suited for 2D on top of it. No compromise.

Well, there was the compromise that it wasn't as good in 3D visuals as it's competitors who could do both better 3D and almost as good 2D on top of it. if not just as good.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Was Tony Hawk even possible on the Saturn? I'm struggling to recall anything of comparable complexity on Sega's console.

Nah, it's almost the anti-Saturn game, too many varying slopes, VDP2 would be useless, and imagine the frame rate!

 

[RoboFu]

which part?

 

[cartman414]

1. Focus on 3D from the beginning

2. Better dev tools a year before launch

3. Call it UltraDrive instead of Saturn

4. Change the Japanese controller design to include handles, use that worldwide

5. Sonic Team to focus on Sonic first. Sonic Jam/World at launch, proper Sonic 3D by Xmas 96, save NiGHTS for a bigger audience in 1998

6. No shitty cardboard boxes in PAL regions, DVD style from day 1

7. Big new franchise that appeals to global 20 something audience similar to WipEout

8. Offer both the black western design and grey Japanese design globally, the latter will suit more modern TV styles

9. More console exclusive content/features in arcade ports (eg: a couple more cars/tracks in Sega Rally)

10. 32X, just no

Only if they were lengthy and ergonomic as opposed to pre-DS4 DualShock.

#1 only if they found a way to not eschew powerful 2d.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

im not talking 4 years in... I am talking super popular launch games. I think maybe something like arc the lad in Japan might have been big for that country but in NA it was all games like ridge racer, toshidens that were pushing consoles.


Most successful PS1 launch games
Based on sales and critical reception, these were some of the most notable and successful launch titles available at the PlayStation's release in North America:

• Ridge Racer: Namco's arcade racing hit was rebuilt for the PS1, delivering impressive 3D racing that set a new benchmark for the genre. It was widely praised as the best launch title for the system.
• Battle Arena Toshinden: This 3D fighting game became a commercial success for the PlayStation, selling out in its first week. Critics at the time praised its vibrant character roster, dynamic camera, and detailed stage designs.
• Rayman: Although not a PlayStation exclusive, this imaginative 2D platformer from Ubisoft became a hit on the console and the start of a popular franchise.
• Air Combat: Originally based on an arcade game, this combat flight simulator from Namco was praised for its action and cinematic cutscenes, and it eventually led to the long-running Ace Combat series.
• Twisted Metal: Released shortly after the launch window in November 1995, this vehicular combat game became a highly successful first-party franchise for Sony.

Note that at the end of the day, these are just a few games. ( Destruction Derby, WarHawk, nfl gameday, tekken, Jumping Flash!, Doom, MK3, ESPN Extreme Games, Road Rash, Gex ,Loaded , King's Field, The Raiden Project etc there were many games but 6 were enough)

See what Sega had on the shelves on May 11, 1995.

Which of these games are worth $399 ?

VF1 (no textures)
Worldwide Soccer: Sega International Victory Goal Edition (soccer... )
Panzer Dragoon (pretty but boring)
Pebble Beach Golf Links (looks like a Sega CD game)
Daytona USA (20fps, pop-in)
Clockworkknight (bland character)
Bug!

Shinobi Legions (September)
Astal (September)
Cyber speedway (September)
Virtua Fighter Remix (October)
Virtua Racing ( November )
black fire (November)
Ghen War (November)
Sega Rally Championship (November)
Virtua Cop (November)
Virtua Fighter 2 (November)

note that the best Saturn games were released in November but from September 9th to November 9th are 60 days, 60 days where the PS1 had the most advanced games on the market without competition. I highlight Toshinden, this was not a good 3D fighting game but it looked very nice in stores. I don't deny that the most beautiful game was Panzer Dragoon, but you didn't need to play it to know that it was boring.
exchange Virtua Racing, Shinobi Legions, Ghen War and Black Fire for at least two great games and the story would be different (actually it wouldn't be, all games should change, Sega's fatal error is in the genesis of the project when it was decided which games should be made and which not, note that the Panzer D devs were free in their decisions but Sega's directive was that the game needed to be 3D).

 

[NeverYouMind]

Note that at the end of the day, these are just a few games. ( Destruction Derby, WarHawk, nfl gameday, tekken, Jumping Flash!, Doom, MK3, ESPN Extreme Games, Road Rash, Gex ,Loaded , King's Field, The Raiden Project etc there were many games but 6 were enough)

See what Sega had on the shelves on May 11, 1995.

Which of these games are worth $399 ?

VF1 (no textures)
Worldwide Soccer: Sega International Victory Goal Edition (soccer... )
Panzer Dragoon (pretty but boring)
Pebble Beach Golf Links (looks like a Sega CD game)
Daytona USA (20fps, pop-in)
Clockworkknight (bland character)
Bug!

Shinobi Legions (September)
Astal (September)
Cyber speedway (September)
Virtua Fighter Remix (October)
Virtua Racing ( November )
black fire (November)
Ghen War (November)
Sega Rally Championship (November)
Virtua Cop (November)
Virtua Fighter 2 (November)

note that the best Saturn games were released in November but from September 9th to November 9th are 60 days, 60 days where the PS1 had the most advanced games on the market without competition. I highlight Toshinden, this was not a good 3D fighting game but it looked very nice in stores. I don't deny that the most beautiful game was Panzer Dragoon, but you didn't need to play it to know that it was boring.

Virtua Fighter Remix and Sega Rally Championship are easily better than anything on competing systems at this time and Toshinden is absolute garbage.

 

[Team Andromeda]

I think they could figured out a good 32-bit system. They had no problem making solid Genesis and DC systems. It was that 32x/Saturn era which was total junk some reason.

The Saturn was a nice and powerful chipset, sadly we had SEGA America in love with the 32X and also miss handling Soinc 32-bit.

 

[cireza]

Well, there was the compromise that it wasn't as good in 3D visuals as it's competitors who could do both better 3D and almost as good 2D on top of it. if not just as good.

Almost as good you say ? This sounds like a compromise right here. A compromise is when you entirely ditch 2D hardware to only support 3D.

The N64 was an absolute 2D powerhouse for sure lol. As for the PS1, it ended having 2D engines built for it certainly not because it was made for for 2D, but out of necessity as it was the console selling the most. Just like the PS2 where everybody was forced to deal with the shit hardware because sales were granted anyway.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Well, there was the compromise that it wasn't as good in 3D visuals as it's competitors who could do both better 3D and almost as good 2D on top of it. if not just as good.

Irimajiri goes into detail regarding Sega's mistakes with 3D

Too many people at Sega pushed for 2D, when they saw the PS1 development kits and that third parties were flocking to it and going 3D only they panicked, it was too late to reverse course.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Almost as good you say ? This sounds like a compromise right here. A compromise is when you entirely ditch 2D hardware to only support 3D.

The N64 was an absolute 2D powerhouse for sure lol. As for the PS1, it ended having 2D engines built for it certainly not because it was made for for 2D, but out of necessity as it was the console selling the most. Just like the PS2 where everybody was forced to deal with the shit hardware because sales were granted anyway.

Shit hardware? Nothing on Dreamcast came close to this...

 

[cireza]

Shit hardware?

Oh come on lol. Are we seriously going to pretend the PS2 was a well designed, easy to exploit hardware now ?
I can feel that you are soon going to tell me it had a great picture quality as well.

This hardware was a convoluted mess and you know it. Picking the handful of games/devs that somehow managed to make something good out of this thing isn't going to invalidated this fact.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Oh come on lol. Are we seriously going to pretend the PS2 was a well designed, easy to exploit hardware now ?
I can feel that you are soon going to tell me it had a great picture quality as well.

This hardware was a convoluted mess and you know it. Picking the handful of games/devs that somehow managed to make something good out of this thing isn't going to invalidated this fact.

So totally disregard the incredible graphical tricks that machine was pulling off and just write it off a shit hardware. One of the greatest software libraries in history which was supported by every major studio, yeah shit hardware.

You're so bitter aren't you.

As much as I loved and still do love my Dreamcast Sega deserved to fail because they fucked up so badly with nearly every aspect of the Saturn.

You want to call a console shit, start with the Saturn.

 

[cireza]

One of the greatest software libraries in history

Unrelated to the hardware being shit, doesn't prove anything. As stated, publishers had no other choice but to jump onboard.
I don't really know why you brought up the Dreamcast though. Probably something you desperately need to prove but fail at every single time.

You want to call a console shit, start with the Saturn.

Obviously no, the Saturn was a fine console overall and it delivered many of the best games of its gen. Games that ran and looked fine. While PS2 just had inferior multiplats all the time, on top of having the worst picture quality ever seen on CRT. Games were put on this console out of necessity, not because it was a good console. Which ties to my point of 2D games happening on PS1 out of necessity. I will remind you that Sony themselves were ridiculing 2D and didn't want any of it on their hardware, and Capcom had to force them into accepting Megaman games otherwise they wouldn't release the Resident Evil games.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Obviously no, the Saturn was a fine console overall and it delivered many of the best games of its gen. Games that ran and looked fine. While PS2 just had inferior multiplats all the time, on top of having the worst picture quality ever seen on CRT. Games were put on this console out of necessity, not because it was a good console. Which ties to my point of 2D games happening on PS1 out of necessity. I will remind you that Sony themselves were ridiculing 2D and didn't want any of it on their hardware.

PS2 was 2000 hardware, Xbox and Gamecube were 2001 hardware, of course PS2 was going to have the inferior multiplats.

Saturn and PS1 were both 1994 hardware, yet almost every single time Saturn had inferior multiplats.

No excuse for Saturn there.

 

[cireza]

PS2 was 2000 hardware, Xbox and Gamecube were 2001 hardware, of course PS2 was going to have the inferior multiplats.

Saturn and PS1 were both 1994 hardware, yet almost every single time Saturn had inferior multiplats.

No excuse for Saturn there.

PS2 was lead development all the time because it was the most successful console, and also the shittiest. It combined both reasons to always start with this console.

Saturn was fine overall, it's not as if the Saturn/PS1 gap was as big as between PS2 and GC/Xbox. It got inferior multiplats in some cases for the same reasons GC got inferior multiplats : because the original game was based on PS2, it was a budget port by a secondary team at a later date on a console that sold less. Saturn also got multiplats that absolutely destroyed PS1, despite being the console that was selling the least. Which tells a lot on the 2D hardware embedded inside the console.

But you already know this, and are pretending to be ignorant to push your narrative.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

PS2 was lead development all the time because it was the most successful console, and also the shittiest. It combined both reasons to always start with this console.

Saturn was fine overall, it's not as if the Saturn/PS1 gap was as big as between PS2 and GC/Xbox. It got inferior multiplats in some cases for the same reasons GC got inferior multiplats : because the original game was based on PS2, it was a budget port by a secondary team at a later date on a console that sold less. Saturn also got multiplats that absolutely destroyed PS1, despite being the console that was selling the least. Which tells a lot on the 2D hardware embedded inside the console.

But you already know this, and are pretending to be ignorant to push your narrative.

1. Saturn got inferior multiplats because games were being designed around polygons, which is how you did 3D in the second half of the 90s. Developers didn't want to fuck around with warping background layers. So when VDP2 wasn't an option in 3D games like Tomb Raider the games ran like shit, right down to 10fps, 10fps is shit in anybody's book.

2. Barely anyone gave a flying fuck about 2D anymore by 1995, after DKC2 and Rayman sales of 2D games fell off a cliff. Sony and Nintendo realised in 1993 that 3D was the future and that 2D was going to die, but Sega (the company that made Virtua Racing and Virtua Fighter) somehow didn't. Even the knuckleheads at Sega America got this, yet Hideki Sato proceeded with a 2D machine that did a bit of 3D instead.

For all your hatred of Sony, imagine what Saturn would have been without PS1. I wonder how "3D" games would run with just a single SH2.

 

[cireza]

but Sega (the company that made Virtua Racing and Virtua Fighter) somehow didn't

Yet they released a 3D console, so they actually did.

So when VDP2 wasn't an option in 3D games like Tomb Raider the games ran like shit

That's largely an exaggeration, as usual coming from you. And thankfully, all best sellers on PS1 weren't full 3D games anyway. So Saturn was perfectly suited for these games as well.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Yet they released a 3D console, so they actually did.

They designed a 2D console that did a bit of 3D, then had to scramble to incorporate a second SH2 when they saw what Sony had achieved.

Even after that it sucked when it came to games that were full 3D and cost way more than PlayStation to manufacture.

They should have just made a polygon machine, they should have made the PlayStation.

 

[cireza]

They designed a 2D console that did a bit of 3D

That's BS, and it doesn't mean anything anyway. You don't do "a bit" of something. You either do it or you don't.

The Saturn was conceived with 3D in mind from the very beginning, which was around 1992. The way they achieved 3D was just as good as any other for a home console back then as there was no precedent.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

That's BS, and it doesn't mean anything anyway. You don't do "a bit" of something. You either do it or you don't.

The Saturn was conceived with 3D in mind from the very beginning, which was around 1992. The way they achieved 3D was just as good as any other for a home console back then as there was no precedent.

 

[cireza]

This pretty much confirms what I said. It was built for 3D from the very beginning.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

This pretty much confirms what I said. It was built for 3D from the very beginning.

Yes, a limited amount, then they scrambled to incorporate a second SH2 when they saw what Sony had procuded (also in the video)

Yet it caused all kinds of issues when it came to rolling out development tools, especially for developers who just wanted to make polygon games.

 

[kyubajin]

My favourite SAT game and what got me into Vanillaware is Princess Crown, I wish it could get ported out of the JP SAT/PSP...

 

[cireza]

when they saw what Sony had procuded

Sony had produced BS and a bunch of lies though, the console never pushed the announced number of polygons. But this was the typical way they did things anyway.

The issue never was the hardware itself, Saturn was fine overall. They just couldn't compete against the infinite amount of money Sony had.

Sony manufactured their components themselves, the CD-drives, they could take a hit on the price, they were unbelievably rich compared to SEGA and Nintendo. And they went and seduced all third parties again with marketing money, that's it. They had built an easier product to work for, they had bought a company to make the best possible SDK. They took control of all the communication around the video-game market. For sure, they were going to make a difference.

SEGA were using off the shelf components and doing things in-house, there was no way they could compete anyway.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Sony had produced BS and a bunch of lies though, the console never pushed the announced number of polygons. But this was the typical way they did things anyway.

The issue never was the hardware itself, Saturn was fine overall. They just couldn't compete against the infinite amount of money Sony had.

Sony manufactured their components themselves, the CD-drives, they could take a hit on the price, they were unbelievably rich compared to SEGA and Nintendo. And they went and seduced all third parties again with marketing money, that's it. They had built an easier product to work for, they had bought a company to make the best possible SDK. They took control of all the communication around the video-game market. For sure, they were going to make a difference.

SEGA were using off the shelf components and doing things in-house, there was no way they could compete anyway.

Ah here we go again, the whole "Sony lied" routine.

Sony DEMONSTRATED what the actual PlayStation could do to developers and developers loved working with it and were able to get great results out of it early.

Third parties hated trying to get 3D out of the Saturn, it was a complete pig to work with.

 

[cireza]

Third parties hated trying to get 3D out of the Saturn, it was a complete pig to work with.

At launch maybe (what you state is unverifiable by the way), but the SGL arrived pretty quickly (mid-1995) and proved to be extremely efficient and convenient for pushing 3D.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

At launch maybe, but the SGL arrived pretty quickly (mid-1995) and proved to be extremely efficient and convenient for pushing 3D.

Yet the vast majority of fully 3D multiplats still looked/ran like shit on Saturn

Tomb Raider
Pandemonium
WipEout
WipEout 2097
Destruction Derby
Die Hard Trilogy
Blam Machinehead
Toshinden
Croc
Lost World: Jurassic Park
Tunnel B1
Hardcore 4x4
Nascar
Formula Karts

That leaves you with the odd game that Saturn does better like Dead or Alive and Mass Destruction, which benefit from large 2D floors being rendered by VDP2

 

[cireza]

Yet the vast majority of fully 3D multiplats still looked/ran like shit on Saturn

Tomb Raider
Pandemonium
WipEout
WipEout 2097
Destruction Derby
Die Hard Trilogy
Blam Machinehead
Toshinden
Croc
Lost World: Jurassic Park
Tunnel B1
Hardcore 4x4
Nascar
Formula Karts

That leaves you with the odd game that Saturn does better like Dead or Alive and Mass Destruction, which benefit from large 2D floors being rendered by VDP2

Comes up with a random list of games, many of which run just fine, many of which nobody gives a shit about. And then tells you proudly "All these games run like shit lol!".
The differences in these games are anecdotal at best. People still played Doom on Switch despite the abysmal resolution, blur and framerate. And you want us to believe that having 5fps less on some games turn them from "excellent" to "shit" ?

Keep digging.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Comes up with a random list of games, many of which run just fine, many of which nobody gives a shit about. And then tells you proudly "All these games run like shit lol!".

Keep digging.

Damn right no one gave a shit, no fucker bought them, hence why this thread exists.

What a downgrade Saturn was after the MegaDrive glory years

 

[cireza]

Damn right no one gave a shit, no fucker bought them, hence why this thread exists.

What a downgrade Saturn was after the MegaDrive glory years

I have many of the games on your list and they run just fine. You are arguing in bad faith because you have been bullied in school for having a Saturn, we got the point.

Many MegaDrive games had much less colors than on SNES, but that's not a downgrade, nor is it shit, because that's the MegaDrive and you loved the console. But Saturn you don't like for personal reasons, so if something is even a little bit inferior, it is going to be utter shit.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I have many of the games on your list and they run just fine. You are arguing in bad faith because you have been bullied in school for having a Saturn, we got the point.

Did you actually experience anyone's reactions to Saturn back in the day?

You seem to exist in a bubble where everything about the Saturn was just fine.

It wasn't, people thought it was wank next to the competition. So much so that they abandoned Sega for a newcomer.

 

[Ozzie666]

At launch maybe, but the SGL arrived pretty quickly (mid-1995) and proved to be extremely efficient and convenient for pushing 3D.

SGL in 1995 and updated in 1997. Either way, Sony was well in front with helping developers tap into the power of the PS1. Sega was ignorant and over confident. They treated third party poorly. Sega tools and assistance were never on par with Sony.

But the rest of your comment goes against history and almost everything said about the Saturn. It was NOT efficient, anything but. It went against the traditional adopted way of doing polygons.

I think history tell us from so many sources, Sega under estimated 3D and felt 2D was still the future. When PSX, the TREX and the specifications became known. Sega had to improve the Saturn in a Frankenstein manner. I don't think anyone can dispute that. Sega used the wrong arcade board as inspiration from the jump. They were too late.

You maybe have mentioned Dreamcast too somewhere.

The Dreamcast was one of the most elegant designed consoles of all time. You couldn't ask for a better design and exterior too. Sega learnt their lesson. Except that shitty controller and not going with DVD.

 

[cireza]

Saturn was just fine

That's what happened as far as I am concerned yes. The console was great, the games too, people around me had Saturn or PS1, games magazines were released and there were awesome games being reviewed.

Sega tools and assistance were never on par with Sony.

Unlike Sony, SEGA couldn't afford buying a company dedicated to making the tools. The SGL was done in house by AM2 while they had work on all their other games.

It was NOT efficient, anything but. It went against the traditional adopted way of doing polygons.

You can only say this in hindsight.

You maybe have mentioned Dreamcast too somewhere.

Not me.

The Dreamcast, how good it can be, still has a major flaw with the GD-rom format and drive in my opinion. A weak format, a speed that is to high, noisy, too many seeks. A very bad design for streaming content. Otherwise the console was great, but again, it was off the shelf components and selling units absolutely killed SEGA.

 

[nkarafo]

The N64 was an absolute 2D powerhouse for sure lol.

Why, what was wrong with it? Other than the small carts during the earlier days i mean?

Aren't the few 2D games it has good enough? Yoshi's Story looks pretty great to me.

What stops the N64 to have arcade perfect ports of CPS2 games like the Saturn had, if they used the 32MB carts? Theres plenty of CPU speed, more RAM and a capable video hardware for the task.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Did you actually experience anyone's reactions to Saturn back in the day?

You seem to exist in a bubble where everything about the Saturn was just fine.

Cireza is troll his opinions is to defend the indefensible, I recommend that dialogue cease
because you will only hear denials

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

The issue never was the hardware itself, Saturn was fine overall. They just couldn't compete against the infinite amount of money Sony had.

Is this some kind of dogma or mantra? I already explained that the PS1 sold a lot of games and that the money was reinvested.

 

[cireza]

Why, what was wrong with it? Other than the small carts during the earlier days i mean?

Aren't the few 2D games it has good enough? Yoshi's Story looks pretty great to me.

What stops the N64 to have arcade perfect ports of CPS2 games like the Saturn had, if they used the 32MB carts? Theres plenty of CPU speed, more RAM and a capable video hardware for the task.

The N64 barely has any 2D games. Who cares if it could have them. How could it be a powerhouse if it didn't have any games in the genre at all ?

And it would, just like on PS1, require building engines around 3D hardware.

The Saturn pushed these games natively and had a ton of them.

Is this some kind of dogma or mantra? I already explained that the PS1 sold a lot of games and that the money was reinvested.

It made money sure, but the initial investment was just insane. And these games that sold, where did they come from, and how, to begin with ? From third parties, through marketing deals and partnerships.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

The N64 barely has any 2D games. Who cares if it could have them. How could it be a powerhouse if it didn't have any games in the genre at all ?

And it would, just like on PS1, require building engines around 3D hardware.

The Saturn pushed these games natively and had a ton of them.


It made money sure, but the initial investment was just insane. And these games that sold, where did they come from, and how, to begin with ? From third parties, through marketing deals and partnerships.

Odd of you to, out of the blue, rope N64 into this.

Compared to the Saturn it was a huge success.