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[mrklaw]

from the X05 thread:

Not according to the developers. I've spoken to the Gears of War guy (sorry, dont recall the name at the moment. I'm still "amsterdowned") about the frame rate issue and he said they are pointing at 30fps. He also said that even if they reach 60fps, they will push in more details and effects until it's back to 30fps. He said that many devs are following suit.
So I told him that a "less detailed" 60fps game may look overall more realistic in motion than a "heavy detailed" 30fps game. He basically said that since Halo and Halo 2 frame rates didn't bother people, why sould it bother in Gear of Wars.

Anyway, GOW is actually the only Xbox360 game that looks next gen. Sure, frame rate sucks BADLY at the moment, but presentation and overall look shit over any other 360 game.

EDIT. Only 360 games running at 60fps at the show were DOA4, NNN and RR6. So, basically, Western games = 30fps. Japanese games = 60fps. I love japan.

Is it possible that MS are providing either pressure or incentives for devs to get the most detail possible out of the X360, even at the expense of framerate?

This would in theory provide a few benefits for MS

- It'd increase the apparant quality of 360 games, especially in screenshots/magazines
- It'd make the machine more obviously a generation above Xbox 1 (more of an issue for MS as the gap between the two machines is much shorter than for the Playstations)
- reduce the perceived visual gap between the 360 and the PS3


Now, this may well be bollocks, but didn't MS pull the same thing with PGR1 at xbox launch?

 

[littlewig]

so, what was your old one? This new one kind of stinks.

 

[SHOCKIE]

PGR is 60fps.

 

[Blimblim]

Full Auto and Fifa 2006 also ran at 60 fps, with slowdowns for Full Auto. COD2 too ! Imagine that !
Shockie: It's not... yet at least.

 

[Liquid]

1 core now for graphics, 3 cores running in unison for everything later.

 

[Yusaku]

You people are a little too obsessed with 60fps. I'll take more detail at 30fps any day, except for racing games. Unless motion blur is involved.

 

[AtomicShroom]

PGR is 60fps.

What what what!?!? Since when?? This majorly rocks if true!

 

[DopeyFish]

PGR PGR PGR


did he say 3? no. He said PGR

 

[AtomicShroom]

PGR PGR PGR


did he say 3? no. He said PGR

Oh... silly me.

 

[SolidSnakex]

You people are a little too obsessed with 60fps. I'll take more detail at 30fps any day, except for racing games. Unless motion blur is involved.

I'll take alot of detail, and ultra clean 60fps animation over the 30. That's what's happening now anyway.

 

[Bebpo]

He basically said that since Halo and Halo 2 frame rates didn't bother people...

So basically if the top-selling games can be 30fps then why should anyone bother with 60fps?

>_<

If most multiplatform titles are 30fps on X360, then I get the feeling they will look identical on PS3 yet run 60fps. It'd be much easier to use the extra power to bump the framerate then spend time making new visual effects.

MS would probably be pretty happy with that beause in screenshots X360 games would look identical to PS3 games and many people wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

 

[CarlosX360]

The reason I want 60fps, is because it makes the game feel smooth, and clear, rather than choppy movement.....Because I think 30fps does that, as history has proven.

 

[Shompola]

If this is true, it is a good move.. I would do the same as a developer. Most people dont give a shit about 60fps.. however people do get annoyed if a game is stuttering.

 

[Yusaku]

The reason I want 60fps, is because it makes the game feel smooth, and clear, rather than choppy movement.....Because I think 30fps does that, as history has proven.

30fps is choppy? Better get your eyes checked.

 

[SHOCKIE]

PGR PGR PGR


did he say 3? no. He said PGR

 

[Beer Monkey]

I thought this thread would be about how Microsoft hid the Iraq WMD and manufactured the bird flu.

 

[Blimblim]

How could I forget Amped 3 and Top Spin 2? Ho my, so many western games running at 60 fps !

 

[CarlosX360]

30fps is choppy? Better get your eyes checked.

Okay, since you're like that...

Give me a good 30fps to play on N64, GC, PS2.

Because I think most GC/PS2 games are 60fps.

N64 had a lot of these 30fps, especially multiplayer FPS such as Goldeneye, and the legendary Perfect Dark.

 

[Blimblim]

Okay, since you're like that...

Give me a good 30fps to play on N64, GC, PS2.

Because I think most GC/PS2 games are 60fps.

N64 had a lot of these 30fps, especially multiplayer FPS such as Goldeneye, and the legendary Perfect Dark.

Yeah, we all know Zelda TWW and Mario Sunshine run at 60 fps... It's not like these 2 are some the biggest titles on gamecube.

 

[Mrbob]

Madden should be 60 FPS, right??

 

[Blimblim]

Madden should be 60 FPS, right??

It was 30 at X05.

 

[TTP]

Full Auto and Fifa 2006 also ran at 60 fps, with slowdowns for Full Auto. COD2 too ! Imagine that !
Shockie: It's not... yet at least.

U *absolutely* sure COD2 run at 60fps? It looked smooth, but not "60fps smooth" to me.

Damn, I'm getting old.

 

[SolidSnakex]

30fps is choppy? Better get your eyes checked.

I don't think its choppy, but play MGS2 and MGS3. You'll see that Snakes animation in MGS2 is cleaner than MGS3. I find animation to be more important than more detail, and a higher framerate will make animation even cleaner so i'd rather have that.

 

[Mrbob]

It was 30 at X05.

Yeah but I'm guessing (Hoping) the final version should be 60.

All madden games on PS2, GC, and Xbox are 60FPS. Hopefully EA doesn't take a step back.

 

[Bebpo]

U *absolutely* sure COD2 run at 60fps? It looked smooth, but not "60fps smooth" to me.

Damn, I'm getting old.

CoD2 on X360 was 60fps even at E3 so it should've been 60fps at X05.

 

[TTP]

It was playable at e3? WERE?!?!

 

[Blimblim]

U *absolutely* sure COD2 run at 60fps? It looked smooth, but not "60fps smooth" to me.

Damn, I'm getting old.

Absolutelydingly positive.

 

[TTP]

I don't think its choppy, but play MGS2 and MGS3. You'll see that Snakes animation in MGS2 is cleaner than MGS3. I find animation to be more important than more detail, and a higher framerate will make animation even cleaner so i'd rather have that.

I love you SSX. Damn you guys dissing 60fps as irrilevant. I hate you all.

 

[TTP]

Absolutelydingly positive.

LOL, ok! That explains why I liked it so much

 

[Mrbob]

Well now I know why the Madden 360 animation felt a little off.

The game is running at 30FPS.

 

[Blimblim]

LOL, ok! That explains why I liked it so much

Too bad my video from the press conference is completely unusable

 

[TTP]

Ah, I just jumped to your website to check the video and didnt see any. Damn, too bad :/

Is it TOTALLY unusable?
You didnt take any video from the floor?

BTW, is that you the guy tha camera points to at some point in the Madden video? I'm very sorry we didnt meet there :/

 

[Tenacious-V]

Okay, since you're like that...

Give me a good 30fps to play on N64, GC, PS2.

Because I think most GC/PS2 games are 60fps.

N64 had a lot of these 30fps, especially multiplayer FPS such as Goldeneye, and the legendary Perfect Dark.

Actually perfect dark wasn't choppy due to it being 30fps, it was choppy because it was 10fps....

 

[Blimblim]

Ah, I just jumped to your website to check the video and didnt see any. Damn, too bad :/

Is it TOTALLY unusable?
You didnt take any video from the floor?

Nope, no videos from the floor, let's just be said that I don't want to do any favor to Activision at the moment, especially when COD2 is concerned (a matter of them promising something when we met the CEO of infinity ward, and then playing dead until the deadline was over) so I certainly would not go to their booth when I already did not have enough time to check all games as it was. I had about 2 hours to check all the games on the showfloor, between all the appointments and uploading stuff from the party.
Yeah, I'm a badass. Or maybe not :/
And yes, the video from the press conference is totally unusable, for some reason it's almost totally dark. Blame me for fixing the exposure level of the camcorder

 

[Shompola]

Okay, since you're like that...

Give me a good 30fps to play on N64, GC, PS2.

Because I think most GC/PS2 games are 60fps.

N64 had a lot of these 30fps, especially multiplayer FPS such as Goldeneye, and the legendary Perfect Dark.

GE and PD are NOT 30fps. They are sub 20fps more or less with a lot of stuttering. Better example of 30fps is for example Ridge Racer series on PSX minus RR Lite that came with RR4.

 

[TTP]

Nope, no videos from the floor, let's just be said that I don't want to do any favor to Activision at the moment, especially when COD2 is concerned (a matter of them promising something when we met the CEO of infinity ward, and then playing dead until the deadline was over) so I certainly would not go to their booth when I already did not have enough time to check all games as it was. I had about 2 hours to check all the games on the showfloor, between all the appointments and uploading stuff from the party.
Yeah, I'm a badass. Or maybe not :/

You did well. Fuck Activision.

And yes, the video from the press conference is totally unusable, for some reason it's almost totally dark. Blame me for fixing the exposure level of the camcorder

Man, you suck! :lol

You didnt answer this (my bad. I edited)

BTW, is that you the guy tha camera points to at some point in the Madden video? I'm very sorry we didnt meet there :/

 

[123rl]

Not according to the developers. I've spoken to the Gears of War guy (sorry, dont recall the name at the moment. I'm still "amsterdowned") about the frame rate issue and he said they are pointing at 30fps. He also said that even if they reach 60fps, they will push in more details and effects until it's back to 30fps. He said that many devs are following suit.
So I told him that a "less detailed" 60fps game may look overall more realistic in motion than a "heavy detailed" 30fps game. He basically said that since Halo and Halo 2 frame rates didn't bother people, why sould it bother in Gear of Wars.

Anyway, GOW is actually the only Xbox360 game that looks next gen. Sure, frame rate sucks BADLY at the moment, but presentation and overall look shit over any other 360 game.

And THIS is why I won't buy games from devs with this kind of stupid attitude. "Ooh look at how much detail we have on this blade of grass, or this coke can!!!111111!!!" Big fucking deal if the game runs like shit.

Epic are assholes - framerate IS directly related to how well a game plays. I don't care how pretty it looks...if it runs at sub 30fps then it's a shit game.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

I'd rather have more visually impressive game running at a stable 30fps over 60fps. I've never really been able to tell the difference between 30 and 60fps on consoles. I'm only a frame rate whore on the pc where you rarely have a stable frame rate.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

I don't care how pretty it looks...if it runs at sub 30fps then it's a shit game.

Who said GoW is going to run below 30fps? The game isn't out until next year, and I thought they weren't even utilizing all 3 cpu cores yet anyway? Best thing to do is just wait a few months are see how it's looking closer to its release.

 

[Deg]

There is a difference between 30 fps and 60 fps. Just like there is a difference between 480p and 720p. The human can also go much farther than what you could imagine.

 

[Blimblim]

You didnt answer this (my bad. I edited)

No of course it's not me. Just the guy playing (no idea who he was) being happy with what he did in the game
Cerebral Palsy: GOW will be locked at 30 fps, and considering it's a slow paced game I don't have any problem with that.

 

[TheDuce22]

Most of this gens games are 30fps. Few people can tell the difference as long as the framerate is stable. I cant believe this is such a big deal.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Most of this gens games are 30fps. Few people can tell the difference as long as the framerate is stable. I cant believe this is such a big deal.

Because some alot of people can tell the difference. I'd say on the PS2 atleast, most of the games are 60fps. That's what i've played most this gen and i've become accustomed to that framerate. With the power developers have with next gen systems I don't see any real excuse for it not to be 60fps. Especially early in the gen where you definetly aren't pushing the system to its limits.

It's once again why I like Polyphony so much. Kaz said that they go in with the mentality that no matter what the goal is to make the game run at 60fps. So they aren't going to keep plugging away and kill the framerate.

 

[123rl]

Who said GoW is going to run below 30fps? The game isn't out until next year, and I thought they weren't even utilizing all 3 cpu cores yet anyway? Best thing to do is just wait a few months are see how it's looking closer to its release.

The problem is that they are intentionally aiming for a lower framerate. As it is now, the game looks good. It's not my kind of game but I think it looks great. It already runs slow though (based on the videos I've seen). I'd rather have a smooth framerate than details that are unnecessary/add NOTHING to the game. ffs there's already screen tearing and the game is only running at 30fps. What's going to happen when they add even more detail to it?!

 

[Xenon]

I'll accept a stable 30 on launch games. Second gen games better be 60.

 

[Shompola]

There is a difference between 30 fps and 60 fps. Just like there is a difference between 480p and 720p. The human can also go much farther than what you could imagine.

Of course it is. Question is if a games gameplay will be considerable worsen if it is running at 30fps instead of 60fps. Some people tend to think YES, while others think NO.

 

[Blimblim]

The problem is that they are intentionally aiming for a lower framerate. As it is now, the game looks good. It's not my kind of game but I think it looks great. It already runs slow though (based on the videos I've seen). I'd rather have a smooth framerate than details that are unnecessary/add NOTHING to the game. ffs there's already screen tearing and the game is only running at 30fps. What's going to happen when they add even more detail to it?!

The game is NOT OPTIMIZED yet. How difficult is it to understand that? It's not even using all 3 cores !
Of course there is tearing, it's not even running at 30 fps YET !

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

I would like 60fps and nice graphics, it's been done people, that being said a solid 30 fps for most games is alright for me.

 

[TheDuce22]

Because some alot of people can tell the difference.

Sorry but no they cant. And the devs do have a perfectly valid excuse because of it. Pretty graphics and effects that EVERYONE will notice or 60 frames per second to impress a couple of people on a message board. Tough decision. How many games do you see advertising 60 frames per second on the back, how many reviews mention it. As long as its stable its not even an issue.

 

[Xenon]

Sorry but no they cant.

.....thank you prof X