Name three 3D platformers thats better than the Sonic Boost Trilogy that isn't Mario.

It looks like it didn't take much time or effort for GAF to come up with several examples of better games than those. It also looks like you were legitimately not expecting them to come up with anything because you didn't seem very prepared to counter-point for Sonic.

As far as Identity, polish, and depth are concerned, even just the two Banjo Kazooie games pull these qualifiers off better. BK oozes personality and has a very strong sense of identity. Both games are far more polished than either of the three Sonic's you listed, and their level design and structure is more complex and intuitive than any of those Sonic games as well. I'll let other people make points for the other popular responses.

(Of the three listed Generations is the best, but it still succumbs to many of the design flaws that plague even the best Sonic games when it comes to level design).
 
A lot have already been mentioned, but I wanna put my neck out and say that I actually preferred Sonic: Lost World to the boost trilogy. Also SA2, but that's been mentioned already.
 
MrBadger said:
Well I don't think it does considering you agree with both my specific examples, but hey. I do still think they're great games
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2 sections of the entire game. I can point to shitty sections in most games. As a whole I still think it works fine though. Planet wisp is terrible in the classic version too because they added all the same momentum traps that ruin all the other 3D sonic games.

Truth be told, if they just made an HD 2D classic sonic game I'd buy it at launch. A whole game of classic sonic sections would have been a fantastic game.
 
51995-Disney's_Donald_Duck_-_Quack_Attack_(E)_(En,Fr,De,It)-1.jpg
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Also, almost every game mentioned in the replies, even the last few Crash platformer games :P
 
Pie and Beans said:
OP adding "polish" as something to identify 3D Sonic titles is absolutely unreal. Thats some severe reality distortion in effect. You always seem to get that with these so called 'new era of good 3D Sonic', these huge BUT/IGNORE.

- Sonic Unleashed is great BUT IGNORE Werehog half.
- Sonic Colours is great BUT has pretty boring level design and broken Wisp shit.
- Sonic Generations is the bestest BUT IGNORE the totally broken final boss, weird mission crap.



Well yeah. You can chart all entertainment things like this with "When did the talent leave". Sonic is one of the most notorious entertainment properties where you can chart when the level designer and sane people left around SA1, and the hangers on have to run the show and all you get is endless mediocrity.

Now the Hedgehog Engine guy has left as well, you're not even getting good visuals anymore.
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Mission structure in Generations was just to extend the length a bit. It's not super intrusive and I have played great games with way worse padding sections tbh.

The last boss in Generations is fucking atrocious though. Who on the development team played that and didn't realize it was fucking trash?
 
superNESjoe said:
It looks like it didn't take much time or effort for GAF to come up with several examples of better games than those. It also looks like you were legitimately not expecting them to come up with anything because you didn't seem very prepared to counter-point for Sonic.

As far as Identity, polish, and depth are concerned, even just the two Banjo Kazooie games pull these qualifiers off better. BK oozes personality and has a very strong sense of identity. Both games are far more polished than either of the three Sonic's you listed, and their level design and structure is more complex and intuitive than any of those Sonic games as well. I'll let other people make points for the other popular responses.

(Of the three listed Generations is the best, but it still succumbs to many of the design flaws that plague even the best Sonic games when it comes to level design).
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Usually when I create arguments, my goal isn't to prove those I disagree with wrong despite I disagree, but to always hear their argument in detail. Hence you'll see me laugh off some responses, but most people who do make them stand by them for some reason. That reason, is more interesting to me, than my argument against them itself.
 
Sega1991 said:
Painting with a bit of a broad brush there, don't you think?
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Don't let a bunch of nerds get to you.

The worst of Sonic fans aren't that much different than the worst Smash fans, people that think Platinum is the pinnacle of game storytelling, and people who cry when the Last of Us has to cut back to 30fps to accommodate high quality shadows.

All are one in the same in my eyes.
 
The Sly Cooper games were fucking amazing, more people should've experienced them. Just blissful to play, very parkour. Good style, good sense of humor.
 
Spinluck said:
Don't let a bunch of nerds get to you.

The worst of Sonic fans aren't that much different than the worst Smash fans, people that think Platinum is the pinnacle of game storytelling, and people who cry when the Last of Us has to cut back to 30fps to accommodate high quality shadows.

All are one in the same in my eyes.
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Amen.
 
Arc Christelle said:
Because it's my fault that the physics were stiff and could be better? I think it's a decent game but you're kidding yourself if you didn't think it needed hella polish.
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No, because you clearly don't know how to play the game if a half-pipe gives you trouble. JSR is a hard game to get into, but that doesn't mean the physics and controls suck, proper positioning and speed are key as they're very much momentum based games, or in other words, much better at being Sonic games than any of the Sonic games you mentioned (well, I haven't played Generations and Colors has some good levels in there).
 
This is one of those threads where I get absolutely baffled by how the casual boring ass platforming of Banjo gets held up as one of the greats (especially when the only stage that regularly demands platforming dexterity consists solely of collectathon hell for its missions). But thats neither here nor there.

The recent 3D Sonic games fufill a specific niche. They're fast, and to get the most out of the level design they need to be replayed to find the optimal (for speedruns) and hidden (for collectibles) routes. I could easily list a bunch of 3D platformers I had more fun with and consider better, but I think the interesting challenge is to find three that I think are better within that niche.

Here are my choices:

Jet Set Radio: For me the appeal of this game is figuring out the best route between the tags. The more you tag, various police forces show up so tagging each spot that comes up may wind up backfiring as you're left with complicated tags and the entire police squad after you. I also enjoy trying to figure out how to match the traversal for the missions where you need to copy another character to unlock them. I also feel that once you get a handle on the control, traversal is more fun than the 3D Sonics since you have more options and the game asks you to exploit its open environments with them (something collectathons like Banjo rarely do). Some of the controls do require a bit of practice, but Im sure the same argument can be made for the recent 3D Sonics so I find that aspect a little irrelevant.

Mirrors Edge: The Time Trial DLC pack is a requirement for playing this game. Its a collection of courses that really demand you to have a finesse over the controls. I think an argument could be made that the level design in a 3D sonic is more appealing with its flashy spurts of variety (2d sections, falling sections, quick step sections etc) but i like the purity of the courses, and the first person perspective feels more exhilarating to me.

Im struggling to think of a third. From what I know of it, Trackmania would make for a decent third choice but I havent played enough of it to make arguments for it,
 
Arc Christelle said:
Then you should use those as your counter arguments for why it falls in quality and what surpasses it. I didn't tell you to ignore anything. It was even addressed by some and to an extent I agree with it.
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Hey, I didn't start a topic because my series of choice comes under constant attack. You can jam the qualifiers on that they have to be 3D platformers and whatnot, but the fact is, people aren't out just for 3D platforming experiences as a measure of quality and thats why things like Sonic have such low opinions of them. Most other genres/franchises moved on to offer across the board quality with none of the jank you have to implicitly accept with Sonic games because it comes as standard.

There are lots of titles that blur the lines between being combat games but with platforming segments, but they execute both well so you don't hold it against the game. If Sonic the Werehog was some next level Bayonetta shit, perhaps it wouldn't have been so uniformly despised. Instead it was a terrible slow attempt at aping God of War, and that was one of the core problems the series began to experience back with Sonic Adventure 2 and its various "shit versions of other game genres" syndrome.
 
Spinluck said:
Don't let a bunch of nerds get to you.

The worst of Sonic fans aren't that much different than the worst Smash fans, people that think Platinum is the pinnacle of game storytelling, and people who cry when the Last of Us has to cut back to 30fps to accommodate high quality shadows.

All are one in the same in my eyes.
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Now this one I haven't seen nor can I even begin to imagine.
 
The Boat said:
No, because you clearly don't know how to play the game if a half-pipe gives you trouble. JSR is a hard game to get into, but that doesn't mean the physics and controls suck, proper positioning and speed are key as they're very much momentum based games, or in other words, much better at being Sonic games than any of the Sonic games you mentioned (well, I haven't played Generations and Colors has some good levels in there).
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Stop sir. I didn't say the half pipes gave me trouble. I said they needed work which they do. You don't find it odd if wheels don't roll down a slope proper?
This is coming from a person who had the entries and enjoyed them. Yes, you can play it at a skilled level, but that shit needs work.

JSR was nice for the time, but up to modern standards, the shit is ass man.

Same with Sonic Adventure 1, same with Nights to an extent and I FUCKING LOVE NIGHTS. lol Basically saying I would not be surprised if someone finds them stiff.
 
Crash 1

Crash 2

Crash 3

Granted Sonic Generations was very well received, but the other two are quite mediocre by comparison and drag the group down. Meanwhile even the weakest OG Crash games isn't that bad, just not as polished as its successors*.

*
I tend to ignore everything that isn't ND Crash. All the same, I guess I could ignore Sonic Boom since that isn't Sonic Team, but didn't Sonic Team give them their permission? And it's not like Sonic Lost World is a shining beacon either, altho it's much better than Boom.
The Crash games are still the epitome of what I think a 3D Sonic should be, which is ironic and laughable in a way b/c they were designed as a "Sonic killer", and more or less succeeded. The best examples of a 3D Sonic game aren't even in a 3D Sonic game! I can't really say that about Mario.
 
Gotdatmoney said:
2 sections of the entire game. I can point to shitty sections in most games. As a whole I still think it works fine though. Planet wisp is terrible in the classic version too because they added all the same momentum traps that ruin all the other 3D sonic games.

Truth be told, if they just made an HD 2D classic sonic game I'd buy it at launch. A whole game of classic sonic sections would have been a fantastic game.
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IMO, Classic Sonic is easily the weaker half of Generations. The handling is a downgrade from even Dimps games and the level design was wildly inconsistent. I wouldn't be too thrilled to get an entire game full of those stages.

Spinluck said:
Sonic 1
Sonic 2
Sonic 3

EDIT: The bonus stages are 3D, Sonic 1 is there because I don't give a fuck!
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Sonic 1 isn't better than the Advance Trilogy, much less the Boost Trilogy.
 
Lijik said:
This is one of those threads where I get absolutely baffled by how the casual boring ass platforming of Banjo gets held up as one of the greats (especially when the only stage that regularly demands platforming dexterity consists solely of collectathon hell for its missions). But thats neither here nor there.

The recent 3D Sonic games fufill a specific niche. They're fast, and to get the most out of the level design they need to be replayed to find the optimal (for speedruns) and hidden (for collectibles) routes. I could easily list a bunch of 3D platformers I had more fun with and consider better, but I think the interesting challenge is to find three that I think are better within that niche.

Here are my choices:

Jet Set Radio: For me the appeal of this game is figuring out the best route between the tags. The more you tag, various police forces show up so tagging each spot that comes up may wind up backfiring as you're left with complicated tags and the entire police squad after you. I also enjoy trying to figure out how to match the traversal for the missions where you need to copy another character to unlock them. I also feel that once you get a handle on the control, traversal is more fun than the 3D Sonics since you have more options and the game asks you to exploit its open environments with them (something collectathons like Banjo rarely do). Some of the controls do require a bit of practice, but Im sure the same argument can be made for the recent 3D Sonics so I find that aspect a little irrelevant.

Mirrors Edge: The Time Trial DLC pack is a requirement for playing this game. Its a collection of courses that really demand you to have a finesse over the controls. I think an argument could be made that the level design in a 3D sonic is more appealing with its flashy spurts of variety (2d sections, falling sections, quick step sections etc) but i like the purity of the courses, and the first person perspective feels more exhilarating to me.

Im struggling to think of a third. From what I know of it, Trackmania would make for a decent third choice but I havent played enough of it to make arguments for it,
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These are great choices with reasoning btw. Others have also mentioned for the same reasons.
Pie and Beans said:
Hey, I didn't start a topic because my series of choice comes under constant attack. You can jam the qualifiers on that they have to be 3D platformers and whatnot, but the fact is, people aren't out just for 3D platforming experiences as a measure of quality and thats why things like Sonic have such low opinions of them. Most other genres/franchises moved on to offer across the board quality with none of the jank you have to implicitly accept with Sonic games because it comes as standard.

There are lots of titles that blur the lines between being combat games but with platforming segments, but they execute both well so you don't hold it against the game. If Sonic the Werehog was some next level Bayonetta shit, perhaps it wouldn't have been so uniformly despised. Instead it was a terrible slow attempt at aping God of War, and that was one of the core problems the series began to experience back with Sonic Adventure 2 and its various "shit versions of other game genres" syndrome.
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The top is true despite that there are still games that can qualify like Mirrors Edge and JSR, hell even Billy Hatcher and a couple of other games that are mentioned, and there are also a plentiful resource of 3D Platformers stuffed with the jank that were in pre boost, the reason why a lot of those games were lesser known were due to IP. In many cases, Sonic more or less was a badly handled franchise than anything that had a decade of betraying its fans.

I also agree with the second half.

OrbitalBeard said:
Completely disagree. In fact, I'd place the original Sonic the Hedgehog at or near the top of the entire franchise. The game was the perfect blend of both speed and great platforming.
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Sonic 1 is.... meh. It created a foundation and that's all I feel for it, despite loving it when I was a child. Nowadays I hold Sonic 1 and CD as the worst of Genesis.
 
Gunstar Ikari said:
IMO, Classic Sonic is easily the weaker half of Generations. The handling is a downgrade from even Dimps games and the level design was wildly inconsistent. I wouldn't be too thrilled to get an entire game full of those stages
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This is what I hold against Generations the most. The fact that the 2D Classic Sonic engine is still such a noticeable step down in quality/physics/execution from the 2D games in fucking 1991 is just... come on chaps. Almost 25 years and you can't recreate that shit when hobbyists can?
 
N64
Banjo 1, 2
Conker

Psx
Croc 1, 2
Crash 1, 2, 3
Spyro ?

Ps2
Jak 1
Sly 1
Ratchet 1?

Ps3/Xbox
jet set?
Journey?
Ratchet?

Tbh its hard to think of any good 3d platformer outside of nintendo games. IMO games above are better from sonic but i still would take Mario instead.
 
Arc Christelle said:
-Popular Responses-
Ape Escape Series
Jak & Daxter Series
Ratchet & Clank Series
Rayman 2 [I think is a great 3D game and wish there were more entries after 3.]
Banjo Kazooie Series
Crash Bandicoot
Spyro
Psychonauts
-----------------------------------------------
My response to all of these is "WHY?" So if we're to compare playing through those three games to these you would get a better experience from these sluggish double jumped stuffed adventure titles? How are they better games? Does the controls feel as smooth and satisfying? Can you push the design to it's limit? Can you push yourself in these games? Can they possibly deliver the rush or feeling you get from the other games? and how so? Why are they better?
[Note: I've noticed the tone sounds more aggressive than satirical as I'd like it to be, but, it's really in between questions to consider.]
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I don't know about the others but Banjo Kazooie is one of the best games ever made, though there's less platforming in it and Rayman 2 was superb.

PS: To answer your question:

Banjo Kazooie
Donkey Kong 64
Rayman 2
 
Pie and Beans said:
This is what I hold against Generations the most. The fact that the 2D Classic Sonic engine is still such a noticeable step down in quality/physics/execution from the 2D games in fucking 1991 is just... come on chaps. Almost 25 years and you can't recreate that shit when hobbyists can?
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Well, it's at least a step up from Sonic 4. I dislike this about Classic Sonic in Gens as well and I'm still waiting for something like After the Sequel from Sonic team. I do still think Classic Gens's physics and level design make for an enjoyable game though.
 
I would love to hear what makes Jak & Daxter so great. I mean I played it at launch and the Hd version and it's average. Really, nothing special.
 
ramparter said:
I don't know about the others but Banjo Kazooie is one of the best games ever made, though there's less platforming in it and Rayman 2 was superb.

PS: To answer your question:

Banjo Kazooie
Donkey Kong 64
Rayman 2
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I'm actually not surprised at the DK64 mention if BK is seen as #1.
I would like to DK return to 3D someday.
----------------------
Looking back at the questions I think the reason I had to post that was because a lot of them were collectathons, many good in their own right, and I've enjoyed personally, but none of them I'd rather play instead of blazing through a level. It's really an argument over semantics but its been something I've been wanting to see from naysayers for a while. As in what they hold as quality and why is it behind. Also at times it feels like it usually gets shat on without question, simply because we let it. So I have to call everything into question. If X is a mediocre game, then what does it better? imo Games like Lost World, Knack, and Sonic Boom, face much opposition, because you can easily look at another game and compare it to show where it fails and what it lacks. So I wanted to hold the trilogy in the same view, because I always find it hard to put something down when there's barely anything that's similar in comparison.

MrBadger said:
Well, it's at least a step up from Sonic 4. I dislike this about Classic Sonic in Gens as well and I'm still waiting for something like After the Sequel from Sonic team. I do still think Classic Gens's physics and level design make for an enjoyable game though.
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I wish SEGA/Sonic Team would stop trying to revisit Classic style. Mostly because I don't feel its necessary if its not going to be built in a full Genesis style to begin with. It's just in the way and setting everyone up for disappointment imo.
 
It seems like 3D platformers have been lying dormant for so long that perhaps the OP never really experienced their critical growth from 1996 through the PS2-era where it culminated with Jak, Sly, Ratchet and finally Mario Galaxy.

The problem is, 3D Sonic games have never been good. Serviceable at best, but never good like so many of the examples listed here in this thread. Not only are they unpolished (far from it), but they have a forced mix of play styles that never finds its groove. The closest it got was with Sonic Heroes and that was pretty much negatively received when it came out.
 
I can't name three, but I know one that hasn't been mentioned.

Tearaway

VitaGAF am disaapoint. It's not super challenging, but the depth, the music, the polish, the interaction, and the enjoyment levels are through the roof. I can't remember the last time a game made me smile as much as Tearaway did.
 
evilromero said:
It seems like 3D platformers have been lying dormant for so long that perhaps the OP never really experienced their critical growth from 1996 through the PS2-era where it culminated with Jak, Sly, Ratchet and finally Mario Galaxy.

The problem is, 3D Sonic games have never been good. Serviceable at best, but never good like so many of the examples listed here in this thread. Not only are they unpolished (far from it), but they have a forced mix of play styles that never finds its groove. The closest it got was with Sonic Heroes and that was pretty much negatively received when it came out.
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No I did, grew up with all of it. Just don't hold them in as high as a regard as I have for the boost trilogy or Mario titles. Also I find most PS2-era platformers... kinda dull. I maybe on the minority with that one, but not many of them really were amazing to me. Kinda reminds me when I revisited Ico earlier this year, and realized how it just felt like some weird physics experiment mixed with an independent film. Which was a part of the charm. And had some interesting approach to fixed camera angles, and character control/interaction [cliff hanging and whatnot]. But at the same time, the jank was kinda obvious. Still need to play SoC.

Don't get me started on Kingdom Hearts. My roommate still salty about how much I've been bashing that game through my first playthrough. Playing Pumpkin Hill while exploring Halloween town was hilarious.

DeVeAn said:
I would love to hear what makes Jak & Daxter so great. I mean I played it at launch and the Hd version and it's average. Really, nothing special.
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Same.
 
Jak and Daxter
Billy Hatcher
Sonic Adventure 2

That was easy.

EDIT: Ah right, POP:SOT counts too, so just put that near the top.
 
Kinda noticed no one mentioned Burning Rangers.

Dimmle said:
*whispers "Bomberman 64" timidly*

*doesn't even believe that himself*
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.......uh. lol

balohna said:
Sonic fans are so weird. Even the ones that don't draw fan art or write fan fiction are super defensive of every Sonic game. I'm glad you guys still like the series, but it's no longer the bastion of assured quality it once was.
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You're not going to discuss why it isn't? Just leave off on that note?
 
Sonic fans are so weird. Even the ones that don't draw fan art or write fan fiction are super defensive of every Sonic game. I'm glad you guys still like the series, but it's no longer the bastion of assured quality it once was.
 
Metroid Prime Trilogy is in a weird limbo. It has a lot of platforming for traversal, it's technically a first-person shooter, and it's designed like a 3D Zelda in regards to combat and puzzles. And so people are hesitant to really lump it into any of those genres. Sure, Metroid Prime has platforming, but is that the focus of the game? It's like counting Half-Life as a platformer because of Xen or Ravenholm.

On the other hand, still has more platforming than Sonic Unleashed, LOL
ViewtifulJC said:
laughed at OP update, not gonna lie

Are we trying to figure out which game has the fastest gameplay or are we trying to figure which ones are better video games.
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This is a Sanic thread, you gotta go fast or it won't be good.
 
Crash Bandicoot
Prince of Persia Sands of Time (and sequels)
Banjo Kazooie

actually, most non-shit-tier 3D platformers are better than the 3D Sonics. Which are not good games at all.
 
Crash Bandicoot
Ratchet and Clank series
Banjo Kazooie/Tooie

Hell I'd argue these games are some of the best 3d platformers, period.
 
I wouldn't have lumped the 3 Sonics together.

I think Unleashed is bad.

I think Colors is the epitome of "yeah it's alright, not bad for a Sonic game".

But I think Generations is a legitimately good video game, and yes, worthy of the question "what 3D games are better than it?" that the OP posed.

If I had only played Unleashed, I'd think the OP was insane. Because I have played Generations, I know where he's coming from.
 
balohna said:
Sonic fans are so weird. Even the ones that don't draw fan art or write fan fiction are super defensive of every Sonic game. I'm glad you guys still like the series, but it's no longer the bastion of assured quality it once was.
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Hey get it straight, we're all only super defensive of the original Genesis games (moreso recently cause of that stupid "the classic games were never good!" garbage that's been gaining traction by ignorant fools). Only the truly far gone will go as far as to defend almost every Sonic game. Most of us have at least one or two of the modern games that we'll defend based on preference but that's as far as it goes.
 
I think the general intention of this thread was sound (and was actually something I hadn't really considered previously). I think the perception of Sonic and Mario being in a similar tier of platform games in the past causes many people to see more recent Sonic games as being a lot worse comparatively than they are, and that there's actually not many games within their realm that actually do 3D platforming a lot better (hell, I'd even argue the 2D games had far more competition than the decent 3D entries do). However OP kinda screwed up by asking for three games rather that 3 series/IPs (I know plenty of posts have gone with this anyway). This is mostly because if someone likes Crash Bandicoot better than 3D Sonic, then it's almost guaranteed that they'd like all three original Crash games better. It would like asking for 3 better 2D platformers than the Genesis games, and getting back three Donkey Kong Countries as a reply.

OP also shouldn't have listed Unleashed... because holy shit, those Werehog stages. It wouldn't matter if every other stage in that game was a "best-of" of Mario Galaxy levels the Werehog stuff would override it.

I am quite puzzled at quite a few of the responses in this thread so far though. There have been a lot of games mentioned that whilst I think are great, really don't make sense as nominations of being a better platformer than Sonic. I mean, Crackdown? How many times has platforming really had any consequence in Crackdown? You can land anywhere on basically anything and it doesn' t ever matter unless you just want an orb, and even that will wait there forever for you (nobody's said anything about Crackdown 2, lol). I'm surprised I haven't seen Half-Life mentioned yet. It'd be like claiming Portal is a better First-Person Shooter than Quake 3.

Also, I like the old Tomb Raider games... but they're pretty poor at being platformers imo. Any control issues you'd level at even Sonic Adventure games is a million times worse in classic Tomb Raiders.

The Boat said:
No, because you clearly don't know how to play the game if a half-pipe gives you trouble. JSR is a hard game to get into, but that doesn't mean the physics and controls suck, proper positioning and speed are key as they're very much momentum based games, or in other words, much better at being Sonic games than any of the Sonic games you mentioned (well, I haven't played Generations and Colors has some good levels in there).
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Was totally with you up until the underlined. That's nonsense, and a Sonic game that felt like Jet Set Radio would be a disaster.

jhmtehgamr20xx said:
The Crash games are still the epitome of what I think a 3D Sonic should be, which is ironic and laughable in a way b/c they were designed as a "Sonic killer", and more or less succeeded. The best examples of a 3D Sonic game aren't even in a 3D Sonic game! I can't really say that about Mario.
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The Crash games are nothing like any iteration of Sonic should be in any form. It lacks everything that makes a Sonic game. It has no momentum. It's has no tiered level design. It kills you with pretty much every touch from every enemy. There's no real speed reward when you master stages. etc.

The Crash games are far closer to represent a 3D model of the original Super Mario Bros, than anything related to Sonic. If you think they the best examples of a 3D Sonic, then the chances are, then you simply don't want a 3D Sonic really.

Also, in regards to succeeding as a Sonic killer. Crash's years of relevance were over by the time Sonic had a single proper 3D iteration. Unless Sony buys the Crash IP, the series can't even dream of having a Colors or Generations... or even a Lost World.
 
For people that complain about new sonic games being very automated, it's really cute to see lots of PoP fans in this thread.
 
Lijik said:
This is one of those threads where I get absolutely baffled by how the casual boring ass platforming of Banjo gets held up as one of the greats (especially when the only stage that regularly demands platforming dexterity consists solely of collectathon hell for its missions). But thats neither here nor there.
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As Banjo Kazooie is probably my favourite game of all time I will bite to this one a bit.

BK is special. The levels are designed in a way that begs to be explored and it strikes the right balance of complication with the amount of transformations needed to explore everything. The controls are tight, you give sonic a pass for having controls that 'take getting used to' but platformers DEMAND controls to be on point.

The game screams character. There is detail everywhere for a game made in 1997, the music is devine. I love it.
 
Synth said:
I think the general intention of this thread was sound (and was actually something I hadn't really considered previously). I think the perception of Sonic and Mario being in a similar tier of platform games in the past causes many people to see more recent Sonic games as being a lot worse comparatively than they are, and that there's actually not many games within their realm that actually do 3D platforming a lot better (hell, I'd even argue the 2D games had far more competition than the decent 3D entries do). However OP kinda screwed up by asking for three games rather that 3 series/IPs (I know plenty of posts have gone with this anyway). This is mostly because if someone likes Crash Bandicoot better than 3D Sonic, then it's almost guaranteed that they'd like all three original Crash games better. It would like asking for 3 better 2D platformers than the Genesis games, and getting back three Donkey Kong Countries as a reply.

OP also shouldn't have listed Unleashed... because holy shit, those Werehog stages. It wouldn't matter if every other stage in that game was a "best-of" of Mario Galaxy levels the Werehog stuff would override it.

I am quite puzzled at quite a few of the responses in this thread so far though. There have been a lot of games mentioned that whilst I think are great, really don't make sense as nominations of being a better platformer than Sonic. I mean, Crackdown? How many times has platforming really had any consequence in Crackdown? You can land anywhere on basically anything and it doesn' t ever matter unless you just want an orb, and even that will wait there forever for you (nobody's said anything about Crackdown 2, lol). I'm surprised I haven't seen Half-Life mentioned yet. It'd be like claiming Portal is a better First-Person Shooter than Quake 3.

Also, I like the old Tom Raider games... but they're pretty poor at being platformers imo. Any control issues you'd level at even Sonic Adventure games is a million times worse in classic Tomb Raiders.



Was totally with you up until the underlined. That's nonsense, and a Sonic game that felt like Jet Set Radio would be a disaster.



The Crash games are nothing like any iteration of Sonic should be in any form. It lacks everything that a Sonic game. It has no momentum. It's has no tiered level design. It kills you with pretty much every touch from every enemy. There's no real speed reward when you master stages. etc.

The Crash games are far closer to represent a 3D model of the original Super Mario Bros, than anything related to Sonic. If you think they the best examples of a 3D Sonic, then the chances are, then you simply don't want a 3D Sonic really.

Also, in regards to succeeding as a Sonic killer. Crash's years of relevance were over by the time Sonic had a single proper 3D iteration. Unless Sony buy the Crash IP, the series can't even dream of having a Colors or Generations... or even a Lost World.
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This post is.... so on point. Like, I had no faith any there being much people that "got" what I was "getting" at but this post sums it up so damn well. Like I'm genuinely happy to read this. Including it in the OP.
 
balohna said:
Sonic fans are so weird. Even the ones that don't draw fan art or write fan fiction are super defensive of every Sonic game. I'm glad you guys still like the series, but it's no longer the bastion of assured quality it once was.
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Nothing wrong with still paying attention to a franchise that occasionally pops out a good game or two
 
balohna said:
Sonic fans are so weird. Even the ones that don't draw fan art or write fan fiction are super defensive of every Sonic game. I'm glad you guys still like the series, but it's no longer the bastion of assured quality it once was.
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Don't know about that, I was always pretty vocal when I thought a Sonic game was bad.

Because, well, yeah. A lot of them have been pretty bad. Even Unleashed which I enjoyed 1/3 of I acknowledge as a bad game because of its many flaws and oversights.

I see OPs intentions, but he is on a site where some posters say that there has never been a single good Sonic game. So he was kind of asking for it. Hang in there Arc!
 
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