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[Astray]

They're just admitting that they think that multiple parts have hurt the sales potential.

This is it basically.

They just needed to remake the game with newer graphics and QoL features, something like Persona 3 Reload would have been more than good.

Instead they put themselves into a big trilogy that will by definition bleed people as it goes.

 

[StereoVsn]

You know what would have helped sales, SE? Day 1 on PC and not exclusive to Epic for the first game either.

Short term profit desire killed this trilogy sales.

 

[Bernardougf]

I don't think anyone is a fanboy for saying the series has sucked since ff10. No one gives a crap about final fantasy that much anymore because square enix has moved away from what made the series great to begin with. It's less so being a fanboy, and more so being a realist.

And yet this dogshit FF games are always there in the awards ... it speaks volumes about the state of the industry really.

 

[GrayChild]

It's different because the textures are identical. If you drop the resolution to 1080p on PC, it will look the same. The reason the PC side is clearer is because the entire image is higher res. The texture hasn't changed.

So if we compare the 4K resolution image from PS5 that was upscaled from 1080p native res with a non-upscaled PC footage running on the same resolution, we'd get the same result? Why upscaling it then?

In Sony exclusives, the PC version often barely scales above the PS5 one and there are frequently visual bugs such as missing lights, shadows, effects, and more. In game like BMW, sure, the textures on PC are better. Not in Returnal or HFW though.

Apart from the terrible port of TLOU and the day 1 version of Horizon: Zero Dawn which were simply sloppy rush jobs (and were eventually patched), no Sony release on PC has ended up looking worse than its PS5 counterpart. And even if we're talking about full parity, you can never beat the performance gain on PC.

And yet this dogshit FF games are always there in the awards ... it speaks volumes about the state of the industry really.

"FF was never good since the FFVII/X/XII days" is the new copium for the rabid Sony fanboys. If and when we get Bloodborne running on PC (via emulation or official release), I expect similar replies.

 

[Doctor Hades]

The lighting looks much better on PC

Well see if they do improve the textures like they say.

The lighting does indeed look better in the PC version but the developers are insulting everyone's intelligence if they claim that these changes cannot be done on the PS5 because this game is using Unreal Engine 4, an engine that is over a decade old at this point and designed with the last gen PS4 and Xbox One in mind.

I love Rebirth on PS5 and the image quality in Performance mode now looks good on PS5 Pro but there are two major issues with the game in my eyes. One, is the god-awful LOD pop in of small objects, plants and flowers almost immediately in front of Cloud and, two, is the shockingly poor shadow draw distance, where the highly detailed shadow only appears when Cloud is literally next to it.

Both those issues otherwise tarnish the Costa Del Sol area that I am currently playing through on Pro and it's a shame that the developers couldn't do more to enhance the graphics on the Pro other than fixing the blurry image from the PS5's performance mode. In my opinion, these issues are down to inexperience as I'd argue that the PS5 version should not only have a better LOD and shadows but that the Performance mode should have looked significantly better than it did. After all, FFVII Remake/Intergrade looked fine on PS5 in its 60 fps Performance mode.

Roll on the PC version where I will hopefully be able to brute force my way through these issues via the usual UE4 Engine INI tweaks. My only real concern with the PC version is how it will run because UE4 plus DX12 have never been a good fit for many Japanese developers who struggle to deal with shader compilation and traversal stutter, things the engine has become notorious for. Hopefully, like FFVII Intergrade we will be able to force DX11 to get around #StutterStruggle.

Although, the PC version is currently 30% off, I will not be ordering this until the day before release as I see no point in pre-ordering any game on PC a month early when the current offer runs right up until its release anyway. It's not like they are going to run out of digital keys!

 

[GHG]

Or as Horizon: FW:

Even maxed out, Horizon FW on PC is worse than the PS5 version in several areas, so not sure what you're even attempting to show here?

 

[Bernardougf]

So if we compare the 4K resolution image from PS5 that was upscaled from 1080p native res with a non-upscaled PC footage running on the same resolution, we'd get the same result? Why upscaling it then?

Apart from the terrible port of TLOU and the day 1 version of Horizon: Zero Dawn which were simply sloppy rush jobs (and were eventually patched), no Sony release on PC has ended up looking worse than its PS5 counterpart. And even if we're talking about full parity, you can never beat the performance gain on PC.



"FF was never good since the FFVII/X/XII days" is the new copium for the rabid Sony fanboys. If and when we get Bloodborne running on PC (via emulation or official release), I expect similar replies.

You can check my post history fam ... being bashing the new FFs since XV which was the worst AAA game I played in the ps4 gen ... and calling the remakes shits since forever ... didnt even play XVI... you can also check that I've being saying that changing to PC from consoles seems like the best strategy going forward ... so nothing to cope.. its just reality.. at least for me.

 

[Gaiff]

So if we compare the 4K resolution image from PS5 that was upscaled from 1080p native res with a non-upscaled PC footage running on the same resolution, we'd get the same result? Why upscaling it then?

Not sure what you mean. Are you asking why they upscaled it on PS5?

Apart from the terrible port of TLOU and the day 1 version of Horizon: Zero Dawn which were simply sloppy rush jobs (and were eventually patched), no Sony release on PC has ended up looking worse than its PS5 counterpart. And even if we're talking about full parity, you can never beat the performance gain on PC.

Eh, there are visual bugs in Uncharted such as missing lights and shadows. God of War Ragnarok also doesn’t have ray-traced cubemap reflections and I believe the contact hardening shadows are also worse on PC. Those aren’t intended, but they’re the results of the PC ports not getting much attention and scaling. The differences aren’t huge or anything, but the PS5 version does end up looking superior overall in its graphics mode.

 

[Sebastian1295]

And yet this dogshit FF games are always there in the awards ... it speaks volumes about the state of the industry really.

Ya the industry keeps pumping up the new final fantasy games yet alot of the fans of the series have moved on. I remember playing ff10 as a kid on my ps2 and it blew me away. The FMV'S were jaw dropping and square should go back to them for all there future final fantasy games because they hold up and are timeless in my opinion. I also want square to go back to FFX combat because it was flawless turn based combat that was fast, fluid, and just plain fun. They also need to get a new character designer because the final fantasy series was known for quirky, cool, and badass characters with insane outfits and instead went all in on the emo punk look for their games and it's awful in my opinion and strips away the uniqueness of what final fantasy used to be.

 

[GHG]

Not sure what you mean. Are you asking why they upscaled it on PS5?

Eh, there are visual bugs in Uncharted such as missing lights and shadows. God of War Ragnarok also doesn’t have ray-traced cubemap reflections and I believe the contact hardening shadows are also worse on PC. Those aren’t intended, but they’re the results of the PC ports not getting much attention and scaling. The differences aren’t huge or anything, but the PS5 version does end up looking superior overall in its graphics mode.

Yep, there are also issues with the Horizon FW and Uncharted PC ports which mean they end up looking worse than the PS5 30 fps version.

It's got nothing to do with hardware capability though, it's 100% down to porting issues that nixxes have clearly had along the way.

 

[Bernardougf]

Ya the industry keeps pumping up the new final fantasy games yet alot of the fans of the series have moved on. I remember playing ff10 as a kid on my ps2 and it blew me away. The FMV'S were jaw dropping and square should go back to them for all there future final fantasy games because they hold up and are timeless in my opinion. I also want square to go back to FFX combat because it was flawless turn based combat that was fast, fluid, and just plain fun. They also need to get a new character designer because the final fantasy series was known for quirky, cool, and badass characters with insane outfits and instead went all in on the emo punk look for their games and it's awful in my opinion and strips away the uniqueness of what final fantasy used to be.

Yeah.. I just boot it up FFVI for the first time .. and Im having a blast .. modern gaming is really lost in some fronts.

 

[MikeM]

Yet Sony studios put out massively impressive games technically. Maybe Square should look in the mirror a bit.

 

[GrayChild]

Even maxed out, Horizon FW on PC is worse than the PS5 version in several areas, so not sure what you're even attempting to show here?

Which areas? So far, we're talking about textures and effects quality. Or is the timestamped footage below exactly the same as on PS5?

Eh, there are visual bugs in Uncharted such as missing lights and shadows. God of War Ragnarok also doesn’t have ray-traced cubemap reflections and I believe the contact hardening shadows are also worse on PC. Those aren’t intended, but they’re the results of the PC ports not getting much attention and scaling. The differences aren’t huge or anything, but the PS5 version does end up looking superior overall in its graphics mode.

The vast majority of these things were eventually patched, either via the devs themselves or through updated drivers (similar to the Nvidia cards memory leak or messed up volumetric fog on RTX2x+3x with Ragnarok). But that has always been the case when dealing with such large overhead of different hardware.

Ironically, some of the broken effects end up being that way due to running on much higher resolution/framerate than possible on a console. Similar to how Uncharted's camera speed on 60+ FPS and the motion blur correctness on higher resolution were done before being fixed by Iron Galaxy:

Our Third Patch Is Live! :: UNCHARTED™: Legacy of Thieves Collection General Discussions

Patch v1.3 is live for Steam! Here are the details: Added support for older CPUs without AVX2 feature support If an older CPU is detected the title will switch to a fallback executable, either u4-l.exe or tll-l.exe ( Note: This method allows users with newer CPUs to still benefit from AVX2...

steamcommunity.com

 

[Gaiff]

The vast majority of these things were eventually patched, either via the devs themselves or through updated drivers (similar to the Nvidia cards memory leak or messed up volumetric fog on RTX2x+3x with Ragnarok). But that has always been the case when dealing with such large overhead of different hardware.

Ironically, some of the broken effects end up being that way due to running on much higher resolution/framerate than possible on a console. Similar to how Uncharted's camera speed on 60+ FPS and the motion blur correctness on higher resolution were done before being fixed by Iron Galaxy:

The visual bugs I mentioned specifically weren't. Some things such as the missing fog or lower-quality tessellation in GOWR were fixed, but the ray-traced cubemap reflections weren't added yet despite the dev saying they wanted to. Same for Uncharted 4. Vick took photos from the latest patch and the bugs are still there.

 

[Pharaoh 117]

Lighting was an issue in gameplay not in cut-scenes. Hopefully they made some improvements there.

Old ass engine, it's old even by UE4 standards.

Game was also stuttering already on PS5 so I don't have much hope for PC version.

If they don't update engine for Part 3 they can go fuck themselves (also for that nonsense story).

Man, even if they release Part 3 really, really fast (2027, which would be 3 years of development) it would look extremely outdated by that time. Hell, some might say Rebirth already does. I would rather wait a little longer and get a game with better visuals and performance.

 

[GHG]

Which areas? So far, we're talking about textures and effects quality. Or is the timestamped footage below exactly the same as on PS5?

It's been covered in the video you originally posted (ironically) and by DF (which again you've linked). It would benefit you to watch both videos in full. Both textures (in some instances), draw distance and certain effects are not resolving in line with the PS5 version. There is also a shader flickering issue in the case of horizon forbidden west.

These games should look the same or better than the PS5 versions while also being able to run at unlocked resolutions and framerates, but they don't and there are a few issues due to the port/conversion work that's been done. This is also true for ratchet and clank btw.

 

[Thebonehead]

Honestly, you guys are getting a bit insufferable with how you imply that the only platform games sell on is PS.

Fixed that..

 

[Thebonehead]

I'm gonna mod Aerith into a bald girl Western style.

 

[GrayChild]

These games should look the same or better than the PS5 versions while also being able to run at unlocked resolutions and framerates, but they don't.

Which is objectively false.

Actual upgrades over the PlayStation 5 version are somewhat more conservative than, for example, Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart. Where there are boosts, it's mostly about increasing sample counts or the quality of the game's various effects. Take anisotropic filtering, which runs at 2x, 4x or 8x based on the surface on PS5. Of course, PC ramps up to 16x with much better texture quality the further you go into the distance. Level of detail and terrain quality are also improved, with more detailed brush and level geometry.

However, image quality is a different matter, thanks to better PC options in terms of effective resolution and anti-aliasing - especially when compared to PS5's performance mode, which uses both checkerboard rendering and a dynamic resolution to target 1800p. However, this solution is quite a downgrade against native 1800p and, in general, the console version is less clear and stable than the same resolution on PC. Indeed, native 1440p or 1440p DLSS resolves more detail than PS5's performance mode. With that in mind, users can tap into higher-quality upscaling in combination with the PC version's dynamic resolution system and achieve great results.

When setting the PC version to a dynamic 1800p with DLSS using an RTX 3070, image quality is markedly superior to PlayStation 5's performance mode - but then, you might expect that from a GPU of this class. Beyond that then, I tried an RTX 2070 Super running at dynamic 1440p with DRS and found that, although a touch blurrier than PS5's 1800p checkerboard performance mode, more detail was resolved. The basic point I'm trying to make here is that good image quality is easily attained in this port.

120fps - whether achieved via brute force or via DLSS 3 - is another palpable improvement over the console experience. The question is whether your PC has the horsepower to do so.

But please, do continue cherry-picking some extremely minor porting blemishes which 99% of the users would gladly live with in order to have a game that runs and, yes, looks overall better.

 

[GHG]

Which is objectively false.









But please, do continue cherry-picking some extremely minor porting blemishes which 99% of the users would gladly live with in order to have a game that runs and, yes, looks overall better.

It's not objectively false, Vick has shared several examples in recent threads, this topic has been done to death at this point. You're quoting examples from the performance mode. I'm referring to the visual differences between the graphics mode and the PC version.

This video compares the graphics mode, please watch through the whole thing:



It's not about "cherry" picking anything. I'd love for these games to be up to par visually in every aspect with the PS5 versions so that it would warrant me double dipping for additional playthroughs at 4k 60+ fps, but the reality is that it would result in a visual downgrade in certain areas. So unless they patch these issues that guerrilla are aware of btw, then I will continue to purchase and play other games instead:

 

[paolo11]

Game needs to be on Switch 2.

1080p 60fps on handheld mode please

 

[ArtHands]

Honestly, you guys are getting a bit insufferable with how you imply that the only platform games sell on is PS.

Yah, especially when this game literally flopped on PS

 

[HogIsland]

Please BUY this!


They won't

I will eventually. I'm waiting for FF7-1 to get down to impulse buy pricing since I already own the PS4 version (but never played).

Maybe I'll play the whole trilogy on Steam Deck 2.

 

[RoboFu]

It's not objectively false, Vick has shared several examples in recent threads, this topic has been done to death at this point. You're quoting examples from the performance mode. I'm referring to the visual differences between the graphics mode and the PC version.

This video compares the graphics mode, please watch through the whole thing:



It's not about "cherry" picking anything. I'd love for these games to be up to par visually in every aspect with the PS5 versions so that it would warrant me double dipping for additional playthroughs at 4k 60+ fps, but the reality is that it would result in a visual downgrade in certain areas. So unless they patch these issues that guerrilla are aware of btw, then I will continue to purchase and play other games instead:

So it was purposely gimped? That is not a good look sony.

 

[VolticArchangel]

1080p 60fps on handheld mode please

Yeah, you're not gonna get this for the vast majority of Switch 2 games, especially in FF7 Rebirth and Remake. Lmao.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

1080p 60fps on handheld mode please

That would be a stretch I think. Maybe with Frame Gen.

 

[adamsapple]

The lighting looks much better on PC

Well see if they do improve the textures like they say.

Wow, that's a pretty notable difference.

Why isn't the bottom in the Pro patch?

 

[Vick]

no Sony release on PC has ended up looking worse than its PS5 counterpart.

Which is objectively false.

You mention Horizon: Zero Dawn (original version) and yet that game actually looks better on PC and not by a small margin. Improved AF, draw distance, higher resolution, vegetation interaction.. the port is unquestionably visually superior to the original console version.

God of War: Ragnarok and Horizon: Forbidden West ended up looking worse than the original PS5 release for a reason or another, be it missing effects, VFX, inferior textures, draw distance, worse reflections and this sort of things while, with the exception of slightly better SSR in FW compared to base PS5, not offering a single visual advantage over the console version that I can recall.
Aside for IQ in Performance Mode when playing on base PS5 obviously, and the higher potential framerate.

Same story for Uncharted 4 and Lost Legacy, slightly less detailed characters, missing effects (some not shown in the video below), worse draw distance:



Not a single advantage aside for a fixed visual glitch on Nadine's hair still present on PS5.
However, Uncharted 4 can at least be tweaked/modded to increase draw distance to extents superior to PS5.

Insomniac games are all better on PC, with brand new RT settings, increased draw distance, more populated worlds and things of this nature, making them all noticeably more advanced and better looking than console versions.

Not sure if PC version has been updated, but Death Stranding also received some new/revamped graphical features when Director's Cut launched on PS5.

Obviously, this is all result of questionable porting efforts and has nothing to do with hardware.

 

[Skifi28]

but I bet it’s another late port with poor performance.

Old version of Unreal 4 while also going open world, yikes.I hope I'm wrong, but I'm afraid it reeks of a stutterfest. I'm not sure if they ever addressed the stutter issues in the remake.

 

[Nickolaidas]

The lighting does indeed look better in the PC version but the developers are insulting everyone's intelligence if they claim that these changes cannot be done on the PS5 because this game is using Unreal Engine 4, an engine that is over a decade old at this point and designed with the last gen PS4 and Xbox One in mind.

I love Rebirth on PS5 and the image quality in Performance mode now looks good on PS5 Pro but there are two major issues with the game in my eyes. One, is the god-awful LOD pop in of small objects, plants and flowers almost immediately in front of Cloud and, two, is the shockingly poor shadow draw distance, where the highly detailed shadow only appears when Cloud is literally next to it.

Both those issues otherwise tarnish the Costa Del Sol area that I am currently playing through on Pro and it's a shame that the developers couldn't do more to enhance the graphics on the Pro other than fixing the blurry image from the PS5's performance mode. In my opinion, these issues are down to inexperience as I'd argue that the PS5 version should not only have a better LOD and shadows but that the Performance mode should have looked significantly better than it did. After all, FFVII Remake/Intergrade looked fine on PS5 in its 60 fps Performance mode.

Roll on the PC version where I will hopefully be able to brute force my way through these issues via the usual UE4 Engine INI tweaks. My only real concern with the PC version is how it will run because UE4 plus DX12 have never been a good fit for many Japanese developers who struggle to deal with shader compilation and traversal stutter, things the engine has become notorious for. Hopefully, like FFVII Intergrade we will be able to force DX11 to get around #StutterStruggle.

Although, the PC version is currently 30% off, I will not be ordering this until the day before release as I see no point in pre-ordering any game on PC a month early when the current offer runs right up until its release anyway. It's not like they are going to run out of digital keys!

What scares me is the stutter. And what's insane is that turning dlss on in ffxv actually CAUSES stutter on my PC. Thankfully, my 4070 ti super was able to handle native 4k.

DLSS seems to be working better on ff16, though.

 

[rofif]

The lighting looks much better on PC

Well see if they do improve the textures like they say.

Whatever. nothing that couldn't be done on ps5.
They are just trying to suck up to pc gamers now

 

[Mister Wolf]

Whatever. nothing that couldn't be done on ps5.
They are just trying to suck up to pc gamers now

As they should.

 

[justiceiro]

To me it seems Square is the one thats kind of salty. They probably expected more sales from both FFVII Remake and FFXVI. Ignoring the fact one is a heavily drawn out piece of an old game, and the other is a slog to get through. Plus, Rebirth is piece 2 of said old game, ofcourse its going to sell less as a chunk of players rightfully noped out.

To sell a JRPG in this day and age you need to come up with something better than they did, simple as that.

How a company telling potential buyers that the new version of the game will have improvements is "being salty"?

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Please BUY this!


They won't

I did! It's $40 on GMG, to good to pass up!

When the game launch i said in a few threads that the game was selling poorly i was attacked by some people… Now it look i was right and is confirmed by the same Sony fanboys and Square sucks… What changed?

They loved Square when they thought Sony was about to buy them; what happened?

 

[Kataploom]

Why does it matter if it's a "console game"? It's just a game for me, therefore there's no reason for it not to be on PC except for someone paying to not release it on PC

 

[LordOcidax]

I did! It's $40 on GMG, to good to pass up!


They loved Square when they thought Sony was about to buy them; what happened?

Same happened to Digital Foundry, that was their favorite YT channel in the PS4 era, now they are evils

 

[ArtHands]

When the game launch i said in a few threads that the game was selling poorly i was attacked by some people… Now it look i was right and is confirmed by the same Sony fanboys and Square sucks… What changed?

I made a thread over Bloomberg reporting that it flopped, and many people were also insisting that it is not reliable and Takashi Mochizuki is lying or something

(Square Enix) sales of FF16, FF7 Rebirth and Foamstars fell shorts of expectations

Square Enix said: -FF16 sales fell short of expectations. Initial momentum was in line with expectations, but the games failed to reach FY goal as its momentum slowed. No updates from sales number last announced at 3 million -FF7 Rebirth sales fell short of expectations. Initial momentum didn't...

www.neogaf.com

Over time me and Takashi Mochizuki were both proven right.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It always happens with games with bad word of mouth like Remake, GoW:R or Horizon: FW, but games with a good word of mouth like Persona 5 and 3, Days Gone or first GoW did well, so this might do better than the last 2 Final Fantasy released there or last Horizon.

Both of those games had good word of mouth. This doesn’t hold up. Ghost also bombed on PC

 

[asdasdasdbb]

I made a thread over Bloomberg reporting that it flopped, and many people were also insisting that it is not reliable and Takashi Mochizuki is lying or something

You don't really need Bloomberg for that... Square said it underperformed themselves.

Now the question is whether Square's expectations were simply too high. I even mentioned here that I thought they would at least wait to see sales before committing to Part 3 (other than that there's a lot of reuse potential)

 

[squidilix]

The lighting looks much better on PC

Well see if they do improve the textures like they say.

Yeah PC version look so crisp..

Spoiler

Oh wait, this is just the PS5 Fat version...
I dunno why people pretending PS5 version looks like this with shitty screenshot affected by a motion-blur per object and taking from a video without knowing the game mode.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Unfortunately for them telling lies that Rebirth is a standalone game and a perfect entry point to the series when it's a direct sequel with an open ending that requires having played the previous game to understand something about the story and characters, won't help their sales.
They're just admitting that they think that multiple parts have hurt the sales potential.

Reminds me of Netflix when they release new seasons years apart.

 

[owandeseis]

Both of those games had good word of mouth. This doesn’t hold up. Ghost also bombed on PC

Remake, Forbidden West and GoW Ragnarok had good word of mouth? arguable, good scores that's true but..

Ghost had word of mouth i agree, it also became the Sony single player game with the highest CCU on Steam, and it was the best selling videogame on NPD May 2024 (when it released on PC), so that's a weird way to bomb

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Okay, that's all fine.

Will it stutter? That's literally all I want to know.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Oh wait, this is just the PS5 Fat version...
I dunno why people pretending PS5 version looks like this with shitty screenshot affected by a motion-blur per object and taking from a video without knowing the game mode.

Maybe because we know it looks like shit outside photomode.

 

[OverHeat]

Like many pc ports of late, this will bomb. They’re trying really hard to sell up their games on pc but don’t be surprised when square is disappointed once again in sales.

Maybe they can try and blame it on the lack of a mobile port next time for the laughs

You want it to bomb big difference

 

[Itchy Tickles]

As someone who is not the biggest fan of Final Fantasy, especially the non turned based games, asking £70 for these games is a joke and pure greed. Even on Steam sales, you see 50% off and think, "OK, maybe," but then see it's still £35. No chance.

As for the port differences, PC should have the options to greatly out do the console versions due to the different levels of hardware on most mid to high end systems. I mean, all ports should be that way.

It's not a PC vs console fanboy fight, just common sense, unlike the pricing that makes Square Enix complain about lower than expected / wanted sales (and other factors too of course).

 

[paolo11]

Yeah, you're not gonna get this for the vast majority of Switch 2 games, especially in FF7 Rebirth and Remake. Lmao.

What about 720p 60fps?

 

[ArtHands]

You don't really need Bloomberg for that... Square said it underperformed themselves.

Now the question is whether Square's expectations were simply too high. I even mentioned here that I thought they would at least wait to see sales before committing to Part 3 (other than that there's a lot of reuse potential)

No. Bloomberg reported it before the report was publicized. It was only after it went public that people can’t deny it

 

[asdasdasdbb]

No. Bloomberg reported it before the report was publicized. It was only after it went public that people can’t deny it

I'm specifically talking about what Square said in their financial reports.

 

[ArtHands]

I'm specifically talking about what Square said in their financial reports.

I am also saying that when Bloomberg reported what Square Enix said, people choose to not believe it and attacked Bloomberg