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[Explosive Zombie]

Sorry, perhaps I'm missing your point... because you don't seem to be making one here. Let me go over my point again so you can respond. I believe, based on the information we have about TLOU2, that we'll see a negative reaction to it, similar in style to the negative reaction we saw to "The Last Jedi". As as result of this backlash, I said that I expected to see a drop off in sales for TLOU2 similar in scale to the one we saw for "The Last Jedi". That's my thoughts, and my point. I'm not saying TLOU2 is identical to The Last Jedi - I'm not comparing content. I'm comparing reactions to said content. If that wasn't clear before, I hope it is now.

Your counter-point seemed to be... to talk about how The Last Jedi made money, for some reason? We'll ignore that I didn't say it was unsuccessful - I said it triggered a fan backlash, and that it under-performed. Which, it did. Those are just the facts, not really up for debate.

It's certified fresh, and has an audience score higher than TLJ, so no. It bombed because, as JJ Abrams put it: "I don't think that people go to 'Star Wars' to be told, 'This doesn't matter.'" After The Last Jedi, Star Wars didn't matter for a lot of people. Solo was just caught in that wake.

Yes, there are fans who still whine about it. That's literally my point. And you really should ignore merchandising sales for The Last Jedi - they're very, very damaging to your narrative.

I didn't compare the two - as I stated above, I compared what I expect TLOU's fans reaction will be to TLOU2, to what Star Wars' fans reaction were to TLJ. I never said TLJ was nihilistic - JJ Abrams did, though. As for indicating a nihilistic world view, you know I can't provide a complete answer to that without posting spoilers. And this is clearly marked as a no spoilers thread, so I'm not going to be that guy. To be very vague, I'll say that nihilism is typically expressed very plainly as "nothing really matters". After what we've learned, I don't believe there's any other interpretation - Druckmann described it as a game about "hate". And I think TLOU's fans are going to reject the game, and what ND has done, because "hate" - especially the nihilistic version being presented - is a hell of a lot less palatable to a lot of people.

My point is that the idea that some backlash made TLJ underperform is overstated, in fact it's PERCENTAGE DROP (not raw dollars) from Force Awakens is similar to the percentage drop both Empire Strikes Back and Attack of the Clones saw from their own first entries.

It has worse critical reviews than TLJ by a lot, it's fresh but not CERTIFIED FRESH, that requires 75% or above, hence it not saying CERTIFIED FRESH on it. Also TLJ has an 8.1 average rating and Solo has 6.4. The audience score is LOL but I won't get into that, I'll just say IMDB paints a slightly better picture with a larger audience voting on it, but even then I don't consider it all that credible. Solo had much more problems leading up to release like all the drama about changing directors which caused a wave of anti-hype for the film. People also didn't care much for the trailers. The thing is... if people hated TLJ like you say they do it wouldn't be the 28th best selling blu-ray ever. Solo certainly doesn't make that chart.

So, for one thing, fans whining doesn't mean anything to me. The people upset are going to talk about something for far longer than people who enjoyed it and then resumed their daily lives, it's a poor argument. Also how well toys sell to children doesn't matter to me and says nothing about who liked a film and how much.

JJ Abrams is so brilliant, too. Yeah, there's no way to infer the game is nihilistic based on the leaks, and being about hate does not indicate the game will be nihilistic. There's no indication what-so-ever these games have no moral compass or that they think life is meaningless, it's a ridiculous argument.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

The both sides phallacy, how cute.

People who are against cancel culture are as bad as cancel culture guys. Yay!

The strawmanning if the other person's argument when you don't understand what is being said.... very good.

 

[Jon Neu]

The strawmanning if the other person's argument when you don't understand what is being said.... very good.

I wasn't even responding to you, just happens that your post was the last I read about the subject and quoting you gave me the perfect context.

But now it's extremely ironic with your response about not understanding what is being said.

I love Gaf.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

JJ Abrams is so brilliant, too. Yeah, there's no way to infer the game is nihilistic based on the leaks, and being about hate does not indicate the game will be nihilistic. There's no indication what-so-ever these games have no moral compass or that they think life is meaningless, it's a ridiculous argument.

Even if it were.

A lot of people have waited for ND to crash, ND themselves have never been sure of how their success would pan out.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

But now it's extremely ironic with your response about not understanding what is being said.

So quote one or more of the people you wanted to point out how wrong they are, not some random person apparently you agree with. Since you apparently fully understand what is being said.

 

[Azurro]

The Last Jedi didn't just do incredibly well in theaters (and btw it absolutely did incredibly well in theaters, it actually even had decent legs) but it also broke records on blu-ray. These propped up narratives of "get woke go broke" are often very selective or erroneous. Technically The Force Awakens "went woke" by Star Wars standards by starring a female and a black man, but it's to this day the highest grossing film in the US. Nothing even comes close to it. The real formula is "get woke + be bad = go broke"

Yeah, that's ridiculous, you don't know what you are talking about.

The Force Awakens made $2,068,223,624 worldwide at the box office.

The Last Jedi did $1,332,539,889 worldwide at the box offie.

The rise of Skywalker did $1,074,144,248 worldwide at the box office.

The mishandling of the franchise amongst several other things, including the injection of woke ideology, did have an effect. it basically halved the potential revenue from a new mainline Star Wars film.

 

[Temp0]

Yeah, that's ridiculous, you don't know what you are talking about.

The Force Awakens made $2,068,223,624 worldwide at the box office.

The Last Jedi did $1,332,539,889 worldwide at the box offie.

The rise of Skywalker did $1,074,144,248 worldwide at the box office.

The mishandling of the franchise amongst several other things, including the injection of woke ideology, did have an effect. it basically halved the potential revenue from a new mainline Star Wars film.

damn, and it was even the FINALE of a SAGA, that saga has 9 movies and has been in the making for over 40 years! crazy

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Yeah, that's ridiculous, you don't know what you are talking about.

The Force Awakens made $2,068,223,624 worldwide at the box office.

The Last Jedi did $1,332,539,889 worldwide at the box offie.

The rise of Skywalker did $1,074,144,248 worldwide at the box office.

The mishandling of the franchise amongst several other things, including the injection of woke ideology, did have an effect. it basically halved the potential revenue from a new mainline Star Wars film.

A New Hope made 460 million, ESB made 290 million... that's a nearly 40% drop. That is a bigger drop than the drop between The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi which was about 34%. The only way what you're saying makes sense is if we believe ESB is even more divisive a film than TLJ.

 

[Azurro]

A New Hope made 460 million, ESB made 290 million... that's a nearly 40% drop. That is a bigger drop than the drop between The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi which was about 34%. The only way what you're saying makes sense is if we believe ESB is even more divisive a film than TLJ.

Oh please, you are completely dismissing the current market where plenty of tent pole movies are making upwards of a billion dollars every year while the potential market is bigger than ever and comparing that to a much smaller market of 40 years ago, are you even taking inflation into account? Star Wars was a behemoth, supposed to make ALL the money in both box office numbers as well as merchandise. Now it made about the same as a middling MCU movie I'm between major events.

Like I said, you don't know what you are talking about, you have your ideology first and then you twist or dismiss the facts until they fit your conclusion. Yes, the mismanagement of Star Wars, including going woke, damaged the franchise, from box office to merchandising, that's a fact.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Oh please, you are completely dismissing the current market where plenty of tent pole movies are making upwards of a billion dollars every year while the potential market is bigger than ever and comparing that to a much smaller market of 40 years ago, are you even taking inflation into account?

Like I said, you don't know what you are talking about, you have your ideology first and then you twist or dismiss the facts until they fit your conclusion. Yes, the mismanagement of Star Wars, including going woke, damaged the franchise, from box office to merchandising, that's a fact.

How would inflation change the percentage difference between the two films? The inflation would need to apply to both films. Also TLJ did make more than a billion dollars so... not sure what point you're making?

 

[BacklashWave534]

That's pushing SJW identity politics?
The reach is pretty strong with this one.

First off, their are no spoilers in what i said. It was simply my opinion on what i think they did. I did not divulge any details at all and nor would i ever. Secondly, yes, the entire damn game sounds like an SJW wet dream. Again, hard to defend my position without divulging details but you obviously haven't seen what i have.

 

[DForce]

First off, their are no spoilers in what i said. It was simply my opinion on what i think they did. I did not divulge any details at all and nor would i ever. Secondly, yes, the entire damn game sounds like an SJW wet dream. Again, hard to defend my position without divulging details but you obviously haven't seen what i have.

I have seen just about everything. If you think I haven't then go to the spoiler thread.

 

[Azurro]

How would inflation change the percentage difference between the two films? The inflation would need to apply to both films. Also TLJ did make more than a billion dollars so... not sure what point you're making?

Like I said, you have no idea what you are talking about. Inflation would affect the percentages because the worth of a dollar in say 1975 is not the same of the value of a dollar in 1976, 1977, 2000 and so on, so you are not comparing apples to apples.

But that's a bit more of a technicality, where you display your lack of knowledge and critical thinking is when you just dismissed the collosal amount of value lost in only two movies. I'm sure any business would be happy with your idea that it's ok to devalue a franchise by HALF, as long as you managed to inject SJW agenda into it.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Like I said, you have no idea what you are talking about. Inflation would affect the percentages because the worth of a dollar in say 1975 is not the same of the value of a dollar in 1976, 1977, 2000 and so on, so you are not comparing apples to apples.

But that's a bit more of a technicality, where you display your lack of knowledge and critical thinking is when you just dismissed the collosal amount of value lost in only two movies. I'm sure any business would be happy with your idea that it's ok to devalue a franchise by HALF, as long as you managed to inject SJW agenda into it.

The rate of inflation from 1977 to 1980 wouldn't be all that high, same as between 2015 and 2017 wouldn't be much. These are only 3 year spans between the entries. I think you're fundamentally not understanding the argument though... I'm saying The Last Jedi made 34% less than The Force Awakens and Empire Strikes Back made about 40% less than A New Hope... so to claim The Last Jedi performed poorly or that it's performance is reflection of people not loving it would mean the same for Empire Strikes Back, would it not?

 

[TheStruggler]

What I still dont get about the sjw examples brought up for star wars is 1. Tech the force awakens was woke i suppose staring a female, black and hispanic lead yet the movie did well. When it comes to the last jedi you dont hear much at all about the sjw stuff. You hear more man babies complain about Luke throwing away a toy which caused them to rage because he turned his back on his ways, meanwhile the ssme character threw away a lightsaber in ep6 because well I want to protect daddy. Lukes character was always written inconsistent anyways. You made people like Jeremy mad and made him not want to play with his toys anymore

 

[Explosive Zombie]

What I still dont get about the sjw examples brought up for star wars is 1. Tech the force awakens was woke i suppose staring a female, black and hispanic lead yet the movie did well. When it comes to the last jedi you dont hear much at all about the sjw stuff. You hear more man babies complain about Luke throwing away a toy which caused them to rage because he turned his back on his ways, meanwhile the ssme character threw away a lightsaber in ep6 because well I want to protect daddy. Lukes character was always written inconsistent anyways. You made people like Jeremy mad and made him not want to play with his toys anymore

Throwing away the light saber in Return of the Jedi is arguably when he became a true Jedi, as well.

 

[TheStruggler]

Throwing away the light saber in Return of the Jedi is arguably when he became a true Jedi, as well.

And throwing it away is what led to the eventual salvation of his soul and the wrong doings he committed whilst also showing he was the most powerful jedi with projection. The oay off jusy wasnt instant gratification that people wanted

 

[DangerStepp]

The Last Jedi is fecal and Star Wars hasn't mattered to anyone who gave a shit about it in the first place since the prequels ruined it all back in the early aughts.

The first three movies are the gold standard and everything that follows is also-ran merchandising vehicles.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

The Last Jedi is fecal and Star Wars hasn't mattered to anyone who gave a shit about it in the first place since the prequels ruined it all back in the early aughts.

The first three movies are the gold standard and everything that follows is also-ran merchandising vehicles.

Way too off topic, we're only discussing TLJ as it relates to TLOU II's prospective performance.

 

[THEAP99]

What happens to the HBO show if this game "flops.?" To me Naughty Dog have seemed very confident in this and it'll be quite something if it underperforms critically and sales wise.

 

[DangerStepp]

Way too off topic, we're only discussing TLJ as it relates to TLOU II's prospective performance.

I know, but I had to get that in there.

Also, TLOU2 sounds a little too grim for my tastes atm. Probably won't partake.

 

[TheStruggler]

What happens to the HBO show if this game "flops.?" To me Naughty Dog have seemed very confident in this and it'll be quite something if it underperforms critically and sales wise.

Dont think it will flop or underperform expectations honestly, its prob one of the too three games hyped for this generation, a minority of yelling man babies wont change it

 

[ruvikx]

What happens to the HBO show if this game "flops.?" To me Naughty Dog have seemed very confident in this and it'll be quite something if it underperforms critically and sales wise.

It'll be bundled with ps4 & probably ps5 consoles. So it won't flop, also because Sony has a loyal base of players as well who always purchase their exclusives (& Naughty Dog has a good reputation among their fans). It's what happens after which will matter, namely the word of mouth & reputation of the game & studio over the next few years.

Dont think it will flop or underperform expectations honestly, its prob one of the too three games hyped for this generation, a minority of yelling man babies wont change it

Hello Rian Johnson.

 

[THEAP99]

It'll be bundled with ps4 & probably ps5 consoles. So it won't flop, also because Sony has a loyal base of players as well who always purchase their exclusives (& Naughty Dog has a good reputation among their fans). It's what happens after which will matter, namely the word of mouth & reputation of the game & studio over the next few years.

Yes but if this game truly is as disastrous as people have been making it seem, it'll no doubt hurt the IP. Which is why they have a lot riding on this game and confidence. But what do I know

 

[Represent.]

it will still be profitable at 7-8 million which is probably the least it will do but that would be a failure and i'm hoping for those type of numbers, so maybe they can stop with the excessive woke shit.

So sad. lmao.

anyhow, this is an easy 20 million plus seller

 

[ruvikx]

Yes but if this game truly is as disastrous as people have been making it seem, it'll no doubt hurt the IP. Which is why they have a lot riding on this game and confidence. But what do I know

For what it's worth, I don't believe the core gameplay or levels will be disastrous. I believe the mechanisms of the first game will be better, the stealth will be better & the action will be very brutal. Plus I also believe there will be a load of clicker & infected levels in there as well. At worse there will be pacing issues (as seen in Uncharted 4).

But the story leaks from my chair here are absolute shit. The aspect people enjoyed in the first game (which I'll assume is the father daughter road movie dynamic in a post apocalypse zombie setting) has been totally dismanetled & crapped all over. So for people who play Naughty Dog games for the narrative cinematic experience... holy shit, they're in for some "fun" based on what we've seen.

 

[THEAP99]

For what it's worth, I don't believe the core gameplay or levels will be disastrous. I believe the mechanisms of the first game will be better, the stealth will be better & the action will be very brutal. Plus I also believe there will be a load of clicker & infected levels in there as well. At worse there will be pacing issues (as seen in Uncharted 4).

But the story leaks from my chair here are absolute shit. The aspect people enjoyed in the first game (which I'll assume is the father daughter road movie dynamic in a post apocalypse zombie setting) has been totally dismanetled & crapped all over. So for people who play Naughty Dog games for the narrative cinematic experience... holy shit, they're in for some "fun" based on what we've seen.

Really about execution. The first one doesn't seem so fun on paper either to be honest so I'll just wait for reviews.

 

[TheStruggler]

It'll be bundled with ps4 & probably ps5 consoles. So it won't flop, also because Sony has a loyal base of players as well who always purchase their exclusives (& Naughty Dog has a good reputation among their fans). It's what happens after which will matter, namely the word of mouth & reputation of the game & studio over the next few years.



Hello Rian Johnson.

Lmao still never get the hello Rian Johnson comments, the movie still did well in theatres, man babies complained they ruined luke not pander to an audience. Also is the whole "go woke go broke" supposed to be atteibuted to him because the majority of his movies have been very successful especially Knives Out which wasnt only directed but also written by him and saw such huge success they quickly green lit another one. Much like how this game will be a success and if the ending of this story potentially leaks into another the series will then be a trilogy.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

For what it's worth, I don't believe the core gameplay or levels will be disastrous. I believe the mechanisms of the first game will be better, the stealth will be better & the action will be very brutal. Plus I also believe there will be a load of clicker & infected levels in there as well. At worse there will be pacing issues (as seen in Uncharted 4).

But the story leaks from my chair here are absolute shit. The aspect people enjoyed in the first game (which I'll assume is the father daughter road movie dynamic in a post apocalypse zombie setting) has been totally dismanetled & crapped all over. So for people who play Naughty Dog games for the narrative cinematic experience... holy shit, they're in for some "fun" based on what we've seen.

That assumes everyone wanted a sequel to be the same as the first and not a new story in the same universe.

 

[DForce]

Amazon
#4 on Amazon UK
#40 on Amazon

It was #1 in the US shortly after the release date announcement and #17 yesterday afternoon.

This doesn't mean the game is going to well, but it's interesting to see considering what happened over the weekend.

I think the review scores are going to be really important more than ever when it comes to a big Sony IP.

 

[ruvikx]

That assumes everyone wanted a sequel to be the same as the first and not a new story in the same universe.

Right, i.e. for example once I finished Resident Evil 4, I was totally down for a sequel in which Leon is narratively crapped all over. I'm like "give me some sweet tasty Last Jedi-esque subversion right now!". Ditto every other game with a lead character. They all deserve to rot in the sequel. F them.

...

Not really. The leaks are insulting to people who got invested with the characters in the first game. I didn't, for what it's worth, i.e. my favorite part was Pittsburgh on the harder difficulties, playing cat & mouse with the enemy AI & throwing bricks at them. So I'm ambivalent with regards to the sequel. But I know how much a story weighs on a game from experience, i.e. for example Elena in Uncharted 4 being used by Druckmann as a vehicle to tell the player "action adventure is bad, grow up!". When a story gets usurped by agendas & becomes preachy it's a real serious chore to play, irrespective of how good the gameplay & graphics are (& yes, Naughty Dog pretty much gets a blank cheque ergo their production values are sky high).

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Right, i.e. for example once I finished Resident Evil 4, I was totally down for a sequel in which Leon is narratively crapped all over. I'm like "give me some sweet tasty Last Jedi-esque subversion right now!". Ditto every other game with a lead character. They all deserve to rot in the sequel. F them.

...

Not really. The leaks are insulting to people who got invested with the characters in the first game. I didn't, for what it's worth, i.e. my favorite part was Pittsburgh on the harder difficulties, playing cat & mouse with the enemy AI & throwing bricks at them. So I'm ambivalent with regards to the sequel. But I know how much a story weighs on a game from experience, i.e. for example Elena in Uncharted 4 being used by Druckmann as a vehicle to tell the player "action adventure is bad, grow up!". When a story gets usurped by agendas & becomes preachy it's a real serious chore to play, irrespective of how good the gameplay & graphics are (& yes, Naughty Dog pretty much gets a blank cheque ergo their production values are sky high).

If your investment in Joel means you want him to be some idealized iconic invincible superman then you didn't really get TLOU. Man I don't even remember that aspect with Elena, you might be just really sensitive to this stuff in a way most people aren't.

 

[TheStruggler]

If your investment in Joel means you want him to be some idealized iconic invincible superman then you didn't really get TLOU. Man I don't even remember that aspect with Elena, you might be just really sensitive to this stuff in a way most people aren't.

Im a firm believer that the game doesnt make the characters, the characters make the games. I get being invested in a certain character but at times I know its also good to let go and realise a specific game wasnt meant for them especially for story and plot. Take MGS2 with the Raiden bait and switch, I disliked it in the beginning of the game because I wanted to play as big daddy Snake, but as the game went on along with the twists and story reveals, im glad I got to play as Raiden being alongside Snake rather than controlling Snake because I got to see a different side oh his characters. I got to see how fucked up Raiden got and how the story shaped him to how he turned out in MGS4. Just because it was titled MGS2, doesnt mean it only a Snake game.

 

[Jbomb19]

Really about execution. The first one doesn't seem so fun on paper either to be honest so I'll just wait for reviews.

great point. I knew exactly how Last of Us ended/played out because I read an entire game summary. I recently played it for the first time and was still SO into it the whole time, despite knowing ALL the story beats. so me reading "joel lies to ellie about what he did" on a wiki page is a helluva lot different than seeing the performance, backed by the incredible score/setting after playing the whole game myself and watching their relationship grow.

as with every game, execution of the final product will be what I judge.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Andddd your whole argument has been a faulty (hasty) generalization fallacy, you played right into my hands. Again your original claim was they are sacrificing quality for pandering (Strawman fallacy crossed out) meanwhile you are jumping to a conclusion without actual evidence. You read a few spoilers (that have summarized the plot of the game) and decided to make up your mind without actually playing the game. Not even just plot but you jumped to conclusion on even the gameplay which is also part of the game, are you going to assume that even gameplay quality is lower because that pandered to a certain audience? (Same strawman fallacy crossed out) Again you're judging evening based on a few spoilers (that have summarized the plot of the game) and coming to a conclusion that the quality is bad yet you have yet to play it yourself. Games after much more than a synopsis of a book, there are more things to judge or by than the words on a page. (Useless preaching deleted) A game could have a bad story but have amazing gameplay. Hence god of war, the story was lack lustre but the gameplay of said adventure was quality. (Another strawman fallacy deleted)

don't generalize quality just because you read a few plus points on 4chan. (Crossed out for incorrectly assuming where I read the leaks).

It's actually called a hasty generalization and unfortunately, you are wrong. You cannot change a shit story no matter how much you argue that I haven't seen 100.000% of the game. Throwing away the development of established characters unceremoniously is bad writing. Introducing new characters out of the blue without any pre-existing development is also bad writing. If the foundation is bad, then the rest of the game is bad.

But sure, go ahead with another verbose shilling tirade that completely misrepresents my stance. I'm sure preaching (and not actually arguing) is going to convince those who say the leaks and went "Nah, I'm good".

 

[ZywyPL]

Andddd your whole argument has been a faulty generalization fallacy, you played right into my hands. Again your original claim was they are sacrificing quality for pandering meanwhile you are jumping to a conclusion without actual evidence. You read a few spoilers and decided to make up your mind without actually playing the game. Not even just plot but you jumped to conclusion on even the gameplay which is also part of the game, are you going to assume that even gameplay quality is lower because that pandered to a certain audience? Again you're judging evening based on a few spoilers and coming to a conclusion that the quality is bad yet you have yet to play it yourself. Games after much more than a synopsis of a book, there are more things to judge or by than the words on a page. A game could have a bad story but have amazing gameplay. Hence god of war, the story was lack lustre but the gameplay of said adventure was quality.

don't generalize quality just because you read a few plus points on 4chan.

I don't have to see even a second of gay porn to know I'm totally not into it. Within first 20s I can already tell if I like the song or not. I see a 5min. movie trailer and I can alread tell if I'll go to the cinema or not.

If someone truly cannot make up their mind by just a glimpse of the whole part then such people in my mind are lemmings, without their own opinion, without free will, and will suck up everything the big companies put in front of their eyes, who can serve them a big pile of shit and they'll eat it all, up to the very last lick, untill they will be able to tell "that was shit, literally"...

That's what the companies thrive on nowadays, I see tons of people who are let's say going on one, second, third movie from the same director/series, complaining how garbage it was, and they still go on forth, fifth etc. wondering if it's also gonna be garbage... Fucking lemmings indeed.

So sorry, just because you need to spend 60$ and 20h to decide if you like the game doesn't mean everyone has such problems.

 

[TheStruggler]

It's actually called a hasty generalization and unfortunately, you are wrong. You cannot change a shit story no matter how much you argue that I haven't seen 100.000% of the game. Throwing away the development of established characters unceremoniously is bad writing. Introducing new characters out of the blue without any pre-existing development is also bad writing. If the foundation is bad, then the rest of the game is bad.

But sure, go ahead with another verbose shilling tirade that completely misrepresents my stance. I'm sure preaching (and not actually arguing) is going to convince those who say the leaks and went "Nah, I'm good".

If you think thats bad writing then how come some of the greatest movies do a bait and switch like that along with keeping the story engaing until the end. I guess movie like
The Godfather
Psycho
Alien
A Place Beyond the Pines
Scream
Pulp Fiction
Hereditary
Those movies must have terrible writing, also fuck Mario Puzo

 

[Jbomb19]

I don't have to see even a second of gay porn to know I'm totally not into it. Within first 20s I can already tell if I like the song or not. I see a 5min. movie trailer and I can alread tell if I'll go to the cinema or not.

If someone truly cannot make up their mind by just a glimpse of the whole part then such people in my mind are lemmings, without their own opinion, without free will, and will.

Yikes. Think about all the amazing content you're missing out on by forever dismissing something based on seconds or minutes of exposure. You've never given a song another chance after a few years? You've never watched an amazing movie with a terrible trailer? Open yourself up, my dude.

Waiting to experience the final product to make a judgement sounds like the opposite of a lemming. Buying into the knee jerk reaction mob and refusing an experience outright? Now that seems very lemming-y. Of course, it's your money. Spend it as you please! TREAT. YO. SELF.

 

[TheStruggler]

Yikes. Think about all the amazing content you're missing out on by forever dismissing something based on seconds or minutes of exposure. You've never given a song another chance after a few years? You've never watched an amazing movie with a terrible trailer? Open yourself up, my dude.

Waiting to experience the final product to make a judgement sounds like the opposite of a lemming. Buying into the knee jerk reaction mob and refusing an experience outright? Now that seems very lemming-y. Of course, it's your money. Spend it as you please! TREAT. YO. SELF.

MGS2 for me. Originally hated the game esp the bait and switch, played it about 6 months after release again and ended up loving it. I thought I was ripped off not playing as Snake but I gained more playing alongside him seeing a different side of his character whilst they fuck up an entirely new character for their journey to start.

 

[Jbomb19]

MGS2 for me. Originally hated the game esp the bait and switch, played it about 6 months after release again and ended up loving it. I thought I was ripped off not playing as Snake but I gained more playing alongside him seeing a different side of his character whilst they fuck up an entirely new character for their journey to start.

I actually was initially very meh on Last of Us when i started playing it. Just seemed like a typical zombie horror game. Few years later I picked it up again just based on all the hype around TLOU2 and WOW. So glad I stayed with it..

 

[Paracelsus]

Yikes. Think about all the amazing content you're missing out on by forever dismissing something based on seconds or minutes of exposure. You've never given a song another chance after a few years? You've never watched an amazing movie with a terrible trailer? Open yourself up, my dude.

Waiting to experience the final product to make a judgement sounds like the opposite of a lemming. Buying into the knee jerk reaction mob and refusing an experience outright? Now that seems very lemming-y. Of course, it's your money. Spend it as you please! TREAT. YO. SELF.

Maybe it won't be the same for TLOU2, but whenever you have "bold, new, different" as arguments supporting some drastic change in a product, that product often ends up being garbage.
If someone skipped the SW ST, they did themselves a favor.

 

[CobraXT]

The game will be banned in a lot of countries .. not that i cannot get it .. i have an american psn account anyway ..
but definitely it will not sell as much the first one .. people loved the father-daughter relationship in the first .. the 2nd
dont have a decent story to tell .. it have an agenda to push .. if the gameplay is good enough i will buy it used .. sony
will not get a penny for this game from me

 

[whatup]

People judging the plot of a game they haven't played by excerpted spoilers they cannot contextualize, should not have their opinions taken seriously. If you're confusing plot with storytelling then you don't understand the latter.

 

[blackjon24]

Got spoiled going into the youtube comment section of a compeletely different game. I hope that leaker gets sued to hell and back

 

[Jbomb19]

Maybe it won't be the same for TLOU2, but whenever you have "bold, new, different" as arguments supporting some drastic change in a product, that product often ends up being garbage.
If someone skipped the SW ST, they did themselves a favor.

I don't have an argument for or against this particular product because I haven't seen the full product. As with everything, I think the execution will be key.

 

[Jbomb19]

Got spoiled going into the youtube comment section of a compeletely different game. I hope that leaker gets sued to hell and back

I'm sorry, that sucks. Have you tried a spoiler blocker extension for your browser? Kind of annoying when you want to read things on the game besides spoilers but it can help.

 

[Paracelsus]

I don't have an argument for or against this particular product because I haven't seen the full product. As with everything, I think the execution will be key.

Then you'll have the full product, the change will be as stupid as before you had the product, and you'll be defending the change until another product does something as stupid and the cycle continues.
FFVIIr is out, and regardless of what you think of the game as a game, there is no defending the ghosts.

If you think thats bad writing then how come some of the greatest movies do a bait and switch like that along with keeping the story engaging until the end. I guess movie like
The Godfather
Psycho
Alien
A Place Beyond the Pines
Scream
Pulp Fiction
Hereditary
Those movies must have terrible writing, also fuck Mario Puzo

Elaborate on those bait and switches.
I really hope it's not something like "people thought Dallas was the hero but it was actually Ripley".

 

[Jbomb19]

Then you'll have the full product, the change will be as stupid as before you had the product, and you'll be defending the change until another product does something as stupid and the cycle continues.
FFVIIr is out, and regardless of what you think of the game as a game, there is no defending the ghosts.

HOLY FUCK YOU CAN TELL MY FUTURE? what the hell are you doing in a gaming forum? you could a BILLIONAIRE. Get outta here, you! And go make that paper.

 

[TheStruggler]

Then you'll have the full product, the change will be as stupid as before you had the product, and you'll be defending the change until another product does something as stupid and the cycle continues.
FFVIIr is out, and regardless of what you think of the game as a game, there is no defending the ghosts.



Elaborate on those bait and switches.
I really hope it's not something like "people thought Dallas was the hero but it was actually Ripley".

Godfather Vito was the main character he died of a heart attack half way through, Michael then takes place and becomes the main character
Psycho the main character gets killed in the shower and they move to the other woman and her boyfriend
Alien people thought the guy was the main character because he had a bigger role and no one thought Ripkey would survive
Beyond the Pines, focuses on the son later and deals with not having his real father and almost taking revenge on the man who killed his biological father
Hereditary focused on the child and then the child suffers and allergic reaction and gets killed via accident where then the story focuses on the mother losing her mind etc

 

[Paracelsus]

Godfather Vito was the main character he died of a heart attack half way through, Michael then takes place and becomes the main character
Psycho the main character gets killed in the shower and they move to the other woman and her boyfriend
Alien people thought the guy was the main character because he had a bigger role and no one thought Ripkey would survive
Beyond the Pines, focuses on the son later and deals with not having his real father and almost taking revenge on the man who killed his biological father
Hereditary focused on the child and then the child suffers and allergic reaction and gets killed via accident where then the story focuses on the mother losing her mind etc

I knew it. None of them are like the twist in TLOU2, they're still "person dear/somewhat related to who you started as the main character takes up the cape and carries on the story".
Godfather like TLOU2 would be like

Spoiler

"second half is Ba*****'s pov after he does something to S and A", Alien would be "rest of the movie is "A after he does something to R as he tries to bring the alien back home while escaping the crew" etc.

TLOU2 would be what you described if a certain scene with the protagonists happened early in the game and Dina was the playable protagonist. It ain't.