Hey in some weird kinda way he at least got this thread to come together and unite against garbage hot takes.
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NBA 2017 Playoffs |OT| WE DID IT
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Hey in some weird kinda way he at least got this thread to come together and unite against garbage hot takes.
It's just an opinion tho
Stats don't tell the whole story
Kawhi ain't that good
He's not even as good as James Young
Jesus Christ on a pogo stick
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
To me it's annoying watching the Warriors at times because they play a system to fit for KD when the team clearly plays much better when Curry runs the show. I cringe when he makes buckets and styles on people and then he gets used as a decoy for 3 possessions in a row so the game can stop completely for a KD ISO. Last year's Warriors were probably top 3 in terms of most exciting of all time.
Even the 4th game blowout where Curry ran the show vs the Blazers, magic. I started multi tasking while watching the game last night because of how less exciting than what I've expected. :S I'm curious to what happens next season. If Curry for whatever awful reason defers more to KD next year, I'm going to be watching the Warriors a lot less.
Lionel Richie
Member
I just wish Durant would stop delaying his future as a Celtics legend or when he gets here IT might have been traded already.
LyleLanley
Banned
Durant is also 28, at some point soon Ainge is going to have to consider moving him for a lottery pick.
my name is ed
Banned
If you want to talk about income and value, the 3-5 million he could take under max means nothing in comparison to the increase of money that comes from jersey sales, shoe sales, endorsements as a result of increased or renewed popularity and exposure. IIRC one of the reasons KD decided on GS was because he could also begin working on life after the NBA much like Iguadala by getting involved with Silicon Valley. Theres different kinds of opportunities that come with playing in GS vs the middle of Oklahoma that aren't directly tied to what happens on the court.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
They need KD more than you know. He was the missing element they somehow overcame last year until the finals. A guy they can throw the ball to at any time and he can score by any means or get to the FT line.
You missed the best one.
LMA is better
Another of my faves is the media loves San Antonio even though we always get shitted on are barley mentioned
First off, neither Brooklyn pick is guaranteed to be the number 1 pick. Percentage wise it's more likely it won't be the number 1 pick. And Smart has proven he's not going to be a worthy top 5 pick. He can't shoot or be the dominant ball handler on a good offense. He's an alright role player.
Secondly, you're trading for a guy that went toe for toe with LeBron in the playoffs in 2015 and a guy that can create offense when Isaiah rests.
And finally, any trade for a star in the past has usually been for a guy that is about to become a free agent. You don't need to give up as much to acquire a guy that will be an unrestricted free agent in 2 months. Butler is still under contract for 2 more years at way below market value. The Celtics would be acquiring a top 10 player for 3 years under a great contract. You have to give up a lot for that.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
I didn't say they don't need him. You replace scrub Barnes with a player that's far, far superior in every single aspect by a monumental margin, it makes them practically unbeatable.
I'm talking about playstyle, it's nowhere near as exciting with him on the floor. KD is huge when you need FTs and some simple buckets. But I do think overall the team is better by a good margin when Steph runs the show and isn't being used as some awkward decoy for KD. That's when they are literally unplayable. Not that he shouldn't get his, I just don't think it should come with KD being a playmaker since they don't need him to be.
Zeller makes the trade work money wise. And you've mentioned the players thing multiple times already which is why I said I don't care about the rumors in my original post. Every team wants assets in a trade. This year's Brooklyn pick has more value than Crowder. Next year's Brooklyn pick has more value than Bradley. I repeat, NO gm would decline better assets just because they're picks instead of players. When you originally made this comment, you sent a link that stated the Bulls wanted 3 prized "chips". The Brooklyn picks count as 2 prized chips and Smart would count as the 3rd. And perhaps the Bulls said they wanted Bradley and Crowder after the Celtics took the Brooklyn picks off the table?
Lionel Richie
Member
He'll just trade him back to OKC fixing everything with the NBA, Danny is the hero we deserve.
You don't trade Bradley or Crowder in a deal for Butler. The goal would be to add a star without sacrificing your role players. Both Brooklyn picks and Smart would have been enough. The Celtics wouldn't miss Smart because Butler would essentially be replacing him in the rotation and obviously that's a huge upgrade.
And I like Bradley but come on, he's 6-2 and can't create his own shot. Bradley is the perfect guy to guard Kyrie/Curry. Butler can guard LeBron/KD better than just about anyone. And the Celtics will struggle to score against a good defensive team when Thomas rests (Wizards are a terrible defensive team without Mahinmi), Butler would completely fix that problem. Bradley can't take over a stretch of a game offensively (He's a spot up shooter and can run off screens). Butler is an elite isolation scorer and an underrated shooter.
Thomas, Horford, Crowder, and Bradley are all at their peak levels or close to it right now. They aren't good enough to win the title this year. And even if they get a 2nd year jump from Brown next year and add Fultz or Ball in the draft, that's not enough of a lift to make them a title contender next year either. That next off-season Thomas, Bradley and Smart are all free agents.
Yes, the 2 Brooklyn picks are a steep price to pay. But it would have given them a punchers chance at the title for the next three years. Most organizations spend decades getting one opportunity. The Celtics chose to not compete for the title this year, and if they aren't able to sign a great free agent this off-season (Hayward is probably staying in Utah since they showed they could win a playoff series), they aren't going to be able to compete next year either.
Best case scenario for the Brooklyn picks is it gives you a punchers chance at a title in 3 or 4 years. That's if everything works out. Why hope for something in the future when you could have it now?
MushroomSamba
Member
Maybe they're just trying to wait out the LeBron era.
Cornbread78
Member
uggh, well, I kind of agree, but IT is making me eat my words....
Is DB Felgie already prognosticating that he know all along that IT would be this good and at the same time telling every Celtics fan that they're homer "Green-teamers" and should be ashamed of themselves because he is always right and the Celtics still suck and Felgie is better than everyone because his hot takes are facts and all the Boston teams suck and all Boston fans are Pink hats or homers? Because he is a radio God..
Just wondering..
His takes aren't even the bad part. It's the sense of superiority in it, where he claims he's watched more basketball and is more in tune with what makes a player good or not. He also isn't a sheep like the rest of us in the thread.
no youre actually wrong about a crucial part of this.
Felger doesn't think all boston teams suck. He's harsh on the sox, but he's extra hard on the celtics. He has no respect whatsoever for the celts claiming stevens fans are "brad bots" who don't understand that coaching in basketball literally doesn't matter at all. I know felger is a contrarian and 99% of the time what he says just rolls right over me, but his "hot takes" on the celtics piss me off to no fucking end. He makes celts fans look terrible, and he belittles the sport in general. He talks about the celtics, because he is contractually obligated to, but honestly? I wish he would shut his fucking mouth, because it is clear as day the guy hasn't watched more than 10 minutes of basketball at a time this year.
edit- I also love that he bans all talk of olynyk, but EVERY SINGLE BRUIN gets fucking talked about. He sets high bars for the celtics. He called this season an automatic failure if they didn't make it to the ECF and even that he wouldn't commit to as a "success". Yet he called this embarrasment of a season for the bruins a success, and when they got eliminated for choking as they so often do, he didn't even talk about it! He talked about the canadiens losing. He also belittles just about anybody at the hub who talks basketball, even guys like grande and maxwell who clearly know more than dumbass felger, he refuses to accept anything that they say and straight up calls them green teamers to their face. Yet he soaks up everything from Mikey Reiss, who would eat literal shit cooked by kraft and call it delicious.
You don't care about "rumors" but you do care about hypotheticals that have no basis? How do you know the Bulls would accept that offer?
Also, Zeller and Smart for Butler doesn't work money wise.
DerangedHermit
Member
I appreciate your thoughts. I agree that Butler's contract situation makes him more desirable. I guess it boils down to that you are way higher on Butler than I am. I don't see him as a franchise changing player or a top-10 guy. He just got basically played to a draw in a series by Avery Bradley, who the Celtics happen to have under contract, who they know works in their system, who is younger, and who is a better 3 point shooter. Gaining an upgrade in Jimmy Butler while losing a ton of depth and familiarity does not dramatically alter their title hopes this year.
I said all along that I'd do one Brooklyn pick, Crowder and other smaller assets or something, but the Bulls were asking for way more than that, by all sources (Lowe and Woj, to start). By all reports they absolutely wanted NBA ready talent. I don't think it was worth it to the Celts. I also don't blame the Bulls for demanding more.
I agree there are decisions to be made, but they have both time and flexibility to decide.
Cornbread78
Member
LOL.
Literally, why I can't stand him and Maz is just his lap dog lapping up all his piss and vinegar... I think it's Glenn Ordway's fault from the Big Show years ago.
A lot of the time I like Mazz better, but FFS he must be obligated to agree with mike sometimes for the entertainment value. His fucking takes on basketball are the STUPIDIST FUCKING THING. Hitta level of insanity seriously.
cantona222
Member
I was lucky to be able to find tickets for yesterday's Celtics vs Wizards game. What a tense game. Isiah was on fire.
It is the only playoff game where a player scores 50+ points (Isiah Thomas) & an opponent scores 40+ (John Wall).
It is the only playoff game where a player scores 50+ points (Isiah Thomas) & an opponent scores 40+ (John Wall).
friskykillface
Banned
It's because he's a baseball guy
so stay a fucking baseball guy. Don't call people green teamers because you don't understand basketball. When him and Mike talk about Cedric maxwell's takes as if they know more than him it drives me nuts. I get there are homer's, but they don't even watch the damn sport. Just don't talk about it, and if you do, be more receptive, don't belittle the sport as if it doesn't matter. Especially given how much of a hardon mike has for Hockey of all fucking sports.
He's a homer, but at least you know he watches the fucking sport. And outside of boston sports he does a good job of being objective, meaning he can acknowledge talent elsewhere and talk about problems teams have.
friskykillface
Banned
Pretty much, it's all about ratings
Felgar is a Wisconsin sports fan anyway, he's a packers x Bucks guy
Oh I know that for sure, but the problem is Felger thinks he's gods gift to man. TBH my friend got to hang out with him a bit said he was a super nice guy. That being said, he's not just trolling regarding basketball, he's a legitimate asshole about it.
when the angels win the pennant
C will win
True Savior
Member
Only Rondo could have stopped Al Horford. There is no going back.
no one can stop horCtford, what are you talking about
friskykillface
Banned
2012 revenge
My basis is reason and logic. The Brooklyn picks have more value than Crowder and Bradley. Do you not agree with that? Crowder and Bradley are ROLE players. The Brooklyn picks very well could be stars and generally the worst case scenario for top 5 picks is they become role players.
Avery Bradley for the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd pick in the draft?
Jae Crowder for the 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft?
Every gm would take the pick. It's not even a debate.
And if you're all about rumors you continuously ignore the fact that most rumors indicated Ainge didn't offer the Brooklyn picks.
And you're right about Zeller and Smart not working money wise, they'd have to throw in Young as well.
Actually no the rumors were that he was willing to give up A pick, not both picks. THe other hold up was that the only packages he could build required two of the following- avery, crowder, or smart, plus a pick or 2 depending on the package.
edit- I also don't see where he's saying avery or jae are worth a top 3 pick.
BlackNMild2k1
Member
I agree 100%.
The speed and excitement of play takes a step down when KD becomes the focus or co-focus of the offensive effort. When Dubs are in full Steph Happens mode, everything is so unpredictable as the entire team gets a stat boost of +5 and you have no idea if Steph is about to hit a 3 from the end of the opposite bench, Klay materialized in a corner, Clark to appear in the middle of the key out of nowhere, or McGee to fall from the rafters to dunk the ball from a would toss up from Dray.
It's just not the same level of unexpected performance with KD on the floor as everyone seems to be trying to get KD points. Reverb though KD shares the ball, the style of play shifts slightly to accommodate him, instead of him just seamlessly integrating in to the style of play. Maybe it just hasn't fully clicked yet, but when if/when it does... It's gonna be beautiful (82-0+16-0)
beat
Member
But switching IS a smart defense. If you have the personnel for it. (Warriors, Jazz, Bucks, Boston, etc)... all that said, Gobert is not a good switch onto Curry.
But without switching, offenses like the Warriors have done very well with on-ball screens because the ball handler is usually a scoring and passing threat and so is the screener. Doubling the ball handler creates a 4-on-3 opportunity and if it's Draymond as the screener, the Warriors score very well out of that. Same if Curry's the screener, and same to a lesser extent if the screeners are West or Zaza. Going under the screen concedes an open shot to Curry. Going over is tough if the screener makes good contact; it concedes the lane -- and the Warriors have decent threats to finish at the rim too.
In today's Explain One Play at GSOM, Eric Apricot defends switching:
The only thing I would say is that as recently as 2014 or so, the Knicks were rightfully called out for switching too much, but I think this was because they were very bad at it. It wasn't that switching was conceptually flawed, but they didn't have the personnel to do it nor the mindset, and arguably on top of that Mike Woodson is not a good coach. Their bigs weren't viable on the switches and overall they weren't communicating enough to figure out how to un-switch.
From a different Explain One Play:
Finally, from last year, possible ways to defend the Warriors screen plays. I'd only add to the discussion of why classic ICE isn't a strong play against the Warriors is not only that conceding an open 2 to Curry is a losing proposition but also the Warriors often set a screen so high up that ICE-ing Curry concedes an open 3,
So yeah, switching can be a bad idea but not switching can be worse.
Not saying I fully agree with it, but at the same time IT isn't your average scoring machine given his massive flaw in terms of his size/defensive impact. Reminds me a bit of gilbert arenas or kevin martin, only better.
He keeps saying the Bulls preferred players, not picks. In essence that means he thinks Chicago would rather have Bradley or Crowder than the Brooklyn picks. I believe Chicago wanted 3 assets. Since Ainge, as you say, only offered 1 pick, they wanted two players to go with it. If Ainge offered both picks, the Bulls wouldn't have needed 2 players, just one (Smart).
One Brooklyn pick has more value than Crowder and Bradley, the other doesn't because for all we know it could be pick 14 next year. What rumors indicated that Ainge wouldn't give up a Brooklyn pick?
You're saying this like the rumor is that the Bulls wanted 3 of Crowder, Brown, Smart, Bradley, Bkn 17, and Bkn 18. This is complete conjecture, and I haven't seen anything that would back it up.
Ok that's exactly what I just said... that they wanted either a pick and 2 players, or 2 players and a pick.
edit- point being danny didn't think it was worth it, and oh hell yeah he was as right as fuck.
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