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NBA 2017 Playoffs |OT| WE DID IT
- Thread starter Jarate
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2 players and a pick and a pick and 2 players is the same thing! You just changed the order of which one you said first.
I'm saying the Bulls would have accepted 2 picks and 1 player. If the two picks were the Brooklyn picks and the player was Smart.
panthapanda
Member
Butler is a cool name but I don't think he would be a good fit next to IT
sorry I meant to say 2 picks and a player or 2 players and a pick. Did you really not get what I was driving at?
edit- not to mention my first post was formatted right!
BlackNMild2k1
Member
Oh, I know, it's an easier said than done thing, I wasn't saying switching shouldn't happen, just that these big Centers getting drawn out to the perimeter to guard the ball, then being left out to hang and dry on the 3pt laundry line is embarrassing for them. Fun for me to watch, as probably not a lot they can do about it other than figure out how to rotate quicker without leaving someone wide open... If that's even possible.
He wouldn't give up both picks or one pick and two players. Essentially he wouldn't offer any trade that the Bulls would even consider accepting. Which is why the trade didn't happen.
And I don't think it's worth having this conversation if you are insane enough to believe that Brooklyn could be a borderline playoff team next year.
You haven't seen anything to back it up because Ainge didn't offer it. You won't hear rumors of deals gm's weren't willing to do. My whole argument is Ainge SHOULD have been willing to do it.
he works for the bulls certainly going by his information
If you agree with me that they would have accepted 2 Brooklyn picks and a player, what do you disagree with me about?
I'm saying the bulls would've accepted that, but Danny didn't want to do that? Wait wtf are we arguing I feel like I'm missing something here.
edit- nvm you're taking what bread said too literally, yeah the bulls wanted players AND picks. The hold up wasn't about either or necessarily, it was how much they wanted.
Oh so if you mention a rumor, it's fact, if I mention a rumor, it's bullshit.
You think the Brooklyn nets might make the playoffs next season. I think my bullshit has a little more credibility than yours.
Pretty much :/ I put a cool $100 on the rockets to win the series before it started at 3:1. It will help ease the pain of another second round exit
What's Pop gonna do? From what I saw, Spurs were like "welp, gotta play better." I wonder if he doesn't roll out the same line up and if they're getting clobbered again, only then goes smaller.
panthapanda
Member
I mean, magic Johnson has the cure for aids. Probably bribed Silver with the sauce.
No he's citing actual rumors from actual trusted sources. You're making your own rumors up. Seriously, you keep changing your argument.
Ya Bread thinks the Bulls would NOT accept a trade of Jimmy Butler for both Brooklyn picks, Smart, Zeller and Young. I think almost every gm would accept that trade.
I think the Celtics should have made that trade. And I'm guessing you don't think he should have?
beat
Member
Walton was kidding. (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/we-need-to-talk-luke-walton-talks-lakers/vp-BBAF5k7 , 5:30.)
Unless he wasn't, I guess.
Well shit I agree with you there if he really said that.
edit- wait no the celtics should NOT make that trade though. The bulls win that for sure. You say up top the bulls should do that, now you're saying the celtics should too? No way Bulls win that going away.
I believe they should have accepted that trade but all indications are that the Bulls wanted players. We are talking about GarPax here, not perfectly logical people.
Ya it's the last pick in the lottery. Aka the best non playoff team. Generally teams that win 40+ games...
The only rumor you have shown me was 1 link that said the Bulls wanted three prized chips. That proves nothing that you keep acting like is fact. And rumors even from trusted sources can be wrong.
I haven't been focusing on rumors because I don't value them.
I am basing my statements on knowing the history of trades for star players. You know, trades that actually happened. 2 top 5 picks and a good rotation player is a better trade than any team has ever gotten for a star player.
Some trades are win win. The Celtics get a star and a 3 year window to compete for a title. The Bulls have a future to build around. Both teams benefit.
Yeah and they give up 1 top 4 potentially 1st overall pick, another likely lotery pick, and a young top tier defender. It's a stupid trade for a player with attitude problems and durability concerns.
clevbrowns94
Member
I'm a little worried. Hoping it doesn't come back to bite us giving up the number one seed via playing like garbage in back to back games against ATL (and one time against their bench!) followed by resting Lebron for the last two games. As a result, the first two games and a potential game 7 would be in Boston.
i definitely think the Nets could win 30+ next year. They finished the season around .500 over the last couple months once Lin came back. Plus they have lots of cap space and no picks so they'll overpay players in FA to get them out of the cellar.
I showed you a rumor and you claimed that i was ignoring your rumors, but your rumors seem to just be what you logically think should happen. Show me something that backs this up. I'm pretty sure the rumors were that the Pacers wanted players and picks for George too. Nothing backs up this point that the Celtics could have had a star not named Cousins without giving up players.
He's a top 10 player on both ends of the floor. The Celtics need a secondary scorer after Thomas and an elite wing defender. With their current roster with Butler in Smarts place, they are a title contender. Right now they have zero chance of winning the title.
I said from the get go that you care way more about rumors than I do. They're rumors, they aren't facts. You keep asking me to provide you with rumors as if it proves something. IT DOESN'T!
I also said that there aren't going to be rumors of trades that Ainge didn't offer. He didn't offer both Brooklyn picks and Smart. Why would there be a rumor of something that didn't happen?
I've said he should have made that trade and didn't. I can't prove he didn't make an offer with rumors.
And you said that the Bulls should accept a trade for both Brooklyn picks and Smart based on logic, but that you expect there gm to be illogical so they won't?
Butler is a perfect 3 and D guy next to a primary ballhandler. The Bulls had literally no competent point guard on their team for a second straight year and they still managed to sneak into the playoffs despite a bad coach, a horrible gm, a toxic environment and with a lot of Garbo players.
They wouldn't be have a chance at GSW with butler, give me a break.
Why not? They have a perfect player to guard Curry (Bradley), they would have a perfect player to guard Durant (Butler), and they could go small with Crowder on Green. The Warriors aren't a great rebounding team to take advantage of what would be the Celtics only weakness. They would also have Thomas and Butler with a bunch of 3 point shooters to attack the Warriors defense. The Celtics as currently constructed are an elite defense and an average offense without Butler. If they added Butler they would become an above average offense and arguably the greatest defensive team ever.
Bradley, Butler, Brown, Crowder, and Horford would be CRAZY GOOD defensively.
i'm just asking you to show me where this rumor you mentioned is coming from, it's really not a big thing i just want to see where you are gathering information from to form your opinion.
I'm saying that the Bulls are in a position where they should sell high on Butler and get picks, but it seems like they don't want to bottom out and they'd rather get quality starters back in a trade. I am saying this because analysts (who know more than us and usually have contacts) have said this. I believe if a trade like Smart+BKN picks+salary filler for Butler were an option and Danny decided not to take it then he made a mistake. But there's no reason for me to believe this happened because there is nothing to prove to me that this was a possibility.
https://www.google.com/amp/nesn.com...17-nets-pick-in-jimmy-butler-trade-talks/amp/
Again, I don't care about rumors but since you seem to be so persistent here you go.
Ok thank you that's seriously all I had asked for. I don't know if this proves that the Bulls would have accepted the trade you've been pushing though.
BlackGhost
Banned
Go lebum
Go Ty Lue (appreciating you fam)
Go Ty Lue (appreciating you fam)
Apparently not that bad though.
go c!
Whether the Bulls would accept it or not is not necessarily the point. My point is Ainge should have offered the picks and seen if that was enough to add a star player to his current core. He chose not to, and I think that was a mistake.
Lionel Richie
Member
Butler was pretty good in the first 2 games when the Bulls had a competent point guard to get him the ball and create some easier looks.
If a player is slightly less effective because he's being guarded by a really good defender does that make him awful?
Bradley is great at defense. There's no shame in Butler averaging 23 a game on 42% shooting with nobody getting him open looks and having to create offense against a great defender.
I thought the whole point of this was "this team minus Smart plus Butler would be a contender". If the Bulls wouldn't even accept a trade that didn't net them Crowder or Bradley then what's the point? Smart has very low trade value because his shooting deficiencies are less harmful because he's next to guys who can shoot and handle the ball.
I do think they would be a contender with Butler in Smarts place. And I do think the Bulls would have accepted the trade. But whether they would accept or not didn't ultimately matter because the trade was never offered.
I think Smart has decent value. He isn't a great shooter but he's at least manageable from the corners. He also can run a pick and roll, post up, is a good defender and seems to be a great locker room presence.
But they wouldn't post him at SF, that stops the development of Brown unless they move Crowder, put him at SG and Bradley is moved to the bench.
There starting 5 with Butler would be Thomas, Bradley, Butler, Crowder and Horford. With Rozier, Brown, Olynyk as their key bench guys. They would play small more and eliminate the Amir Johnson/Jerebko minutes.
Brown would play the same amount if not more with Butler on the team than he does now.
BlackGhost
Banned
Put some respekt on it
Saying he isn't a great shooter is overselling him lol, he's a historically bad shooter with a bad reputation for flopping. I love him because he has incredible instincts but I really can't see a team like the Bulls trading for him. The word was that they wanted Crowder and that just was too much to give up, especially because Butler and Crowder are good friends from Marquette and you want to keep them together.
I've never been big on Jae playing at the 4, but I guess it could work
Again, they probably wanted Crowder because the Celtics did NOT offer this year's Brooklyn pick. How do you still not understand that the Brooklyn pick has more value than Crowder? If the Bulls would accept a trade of the 18 Brooklyn pick with Crowder and Smart, then they would also accept a trade of the 17 Brooklyn pick, 18 Brooklyn pick and Smart. The 17 Brooklyn pick has more value than Crowder. I'm getting kinda tired of this, I feel like we're going in circles.
Celts have won 6 in a row since putting jae at the 4
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