Vault Dweller 111
Member
Idk what you Warriors fans are talking about when you call us salty.
We nothing compared to this dude.
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NBA 2017 Playoffs |OT| WE DID IT
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We nothing compared to this dude.
It doesn't happen often in a best of 7, but it does happen. The Rockets beating the Clippers in 2015 is another example. Clippers were exhausted from their first round matchup against San Antonio and lost game 6 in large part because Josh Smith and Corey Brewer became good basketball players for a quarter. Weird stuff happens. And when a series goes the full 7 games, 1 game makes the difference.
The 1 game in the finals last year that made the difference was game 5, when Golden State didn't have their best defender and second best player.
I'm not a Warriors fan. I'd make the same argument that the Clippers were better than the Rockets in 2015.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Give the king some credit fam.
Whining about the game five suspension is the lamest take tbh. You had two other chances. Win fucking game seven at home in a season where you went 73-9 😂😂😂
the_batman
Banned
you can't whine about Green being suspended when he kicked people in the nuts like 5 times
I already said LeBron was incredible. He was the best player in the series.
But momentum is a huge part of sports, the Warriors lost it when Green was suspended. The Cavs gained some momentum back winning game 5, then got home court for game 6, by the time the Warriors played game 7 at home, the momentum was completely on the Cavs side.
Yes he was dumb. I'm not arguing he shouldn't have been punished. Just that his absence cost them game 5 and the series.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I see LeBron (who learned it from KG) has taught them the ways of mean-spirited disrespect.
https://youtu.be/py0-l1M_870?t=20
the_batman
Banned
that's not disrespect, that's just playful teasing from a father to his son.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I mean...when a grown man calls another grown man a "bitch ass nigga"...with that stare-down...that that emphasis...
Knuckling-up is basically required at that point. 10 paces, turn and fire.
True Savior
Member
Warriors are good but you can't forget that Al Horford plays in the East.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
WTF did I just read . I am the number one anime Advocate in the nba threads but please keep the anime away from your penis and whatever garbage your talking about. Your over the top kd hate is strange.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
I tend to disagree with most of this. The Warriors lost in Game 5 because the Cavs two best players went nuclear and they went nuclear on (a) LeBron jump shots and (b) Kyrie making aggressively contested shots with Klay Thompson draped all over him. Dray's defensive presence means as much in Game 5 as it did in Game 6 when LeBron dropped a nearly identical statline. Sometimes your best guys are in a zone and there is nothing a defense can do. It happens. Also, the Warriors had one real series before the Finals. The 2 teams they played before OKC averaged like 42 wins and wouldn't even have made the playoffs in 2015. One legitimate series does not a gauntlet make. The Bogut injury feels like a non-starter. If the Cavs lose to the Dubs this year, is Bogut's broken leg the reason? What about Mozgov's botched off-season surgery or Kevin Love's concussion in the Finals last year? The Warriors probably played a little over their heads last regular season and they were nearly taken out by a 55 win team and were ultimately taken out by a 57 win team, both of whom had comparable talent. It's just that the Cavs top-tier talent happened to show up more in high leverage situations last year.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
All time rankings.
1. LeBron James
2. LeBron James Jr.
3-9999. Scrubs
1. LeBron James
2. LeBron James Jr.
3-9999. Scrubs
LeBron and Kyrie had their best offensive performance of the series in game 5, the game Draymond didn't play. Games 1 thru 4 Kyrie was held mostly in check and LeBron had a much better final three games than he did the first four. It wasn't just that they played better. It had to do with Green not being out there game 5 and Bogut missing games 6 and 7. Those two guys were there only reliable rim protectors. It makes a difference when a team has only one shot blocker instead of two on the floor.
And one extremely difficult 7 game series immediately followed by another 7 game series can absolutely tire you out. You don't think playing 14 consecutive physically and mentally demanding games in a row would be exhausting? The 2015 Clippers talk all the time about how their first round series with the Spurs wore them out for their series against Houston.
And the Warriors losing their starting center for the last 2 and a half games of the Finals is much more damaging than the Cavs losing a waiver wire pickup in the middle of the season.
And it's very clear that the Thunder were better than a 55 win team because they beat a 67 win Spurs team in 6 games and had 2 top 10 players in the league.
Go back and watch the tape of Game 5. LeBron and Kyrie's points were coming primarily off jump shots that game and the difficulty level of many of those Kyrie shots was already off the charts. I would buy this argument if the game turned on LeBron/Kyrie getting to the rim at will, but that's simply not what happened. Most of those 82 points were unguardable shots from outside the paint. Draymond obviously helps the Warriors in Game 5, but the Cavs still won that by 15 going away and I don't see Draymond's presence causing a 15 point swing with the way that game in particular played out. Also, Bogut was playing fewer than 17 minutes per game in the postseason. That's not a hell of a lot for a player that allegedly swung the title. We're obviously arguing hypotheticals here, so who the fuck knows for sure, but I just don't see it.
Gully State
Member
If the narrative on the 2015 Warriors was that they got lucky, then that narrative should be the same for the Cavs in 2016. Both squads benefited from their opponent having significant injuries to key players. Both also won/loss fair and square straight up by smartly taking advantage of said weaknesses. I don't know what would've happened with Draymond didn't get suspended for game 5, or if Curry didn't tweak his ankle and then sprain his knee on the same wet spot in the first game of the playoffs (basically coming back looking like a shell of his former self). Fact of the matter is last year, Lebron and co. took advantage of that by exposing an injured Curry and counteracting the switching defense by having Kyrie or Lebron go 1 v 1 on Curry endlessly. This is similar to what happened in 2015, where Cleveland's injuries were exposed once the Warriors went heavy on the death lineup, matched Andre on Lebron and used Draymond/David Lee as the secondary playmaker/safety valve on the Curry traps.
BlackNMild2k1
Member
How is telling the Mascot to "get the fuck off the court" while the game is trying to continue and they are literally waiting on him to "get the fuck off the court" so they can inbound the ball, being "arrogant assholes"?
And Gobert has been shoving and dropping elbows for 3 games now. if KD had been more agressive in Gobert's face towards the rim, and not settling for soft layups and mid range fade-aways, it probably wouldn't have led to that blatant shove the refs pretend didn't happen and then only penalized KD for. That should have been a double penalty on both of them, not just KD.
But whatever. if both current available rosters stay healthy and available, the I don't think the Spurs stand a chance at winning a series.
Jordan is lucky he made a name for himself before Lavar forced him to retire.
my name is ed
Banned
Curry was healthy last year in the playoffs last year but I do think it made him timid like he wasnt quite ready to trust his leg to hold up
Gaf Hop.
I mean he clearly wasn't, why do you think he was sitting out games
Cornbread78
Member
"Race to get Destroyed by Lebron" episode 4 airs today.. I can't wait!
Gully State
Member
He wasn't healthy for the playoffs last year nor the finals the year before but it still doesn't take away from anything Cleveland accomplished.
metalslimer
Member
The thing is even if they lose this year unless they blow a lead on the series it probably won't sting anyone more than last year. Well except for KD because he would probably absorb most of the criticism.
It seems Kerr has surgery for the spinal leak. I'm seriously wondering wtf happened in the original surgery to cause a leak.
It seems Kerr has surgery for the spinal leak. I'm seriously wondering wtf happened in the original surgery to cause a leak.
Lionel Richie
Member
lol I love the narratives about Lebron like he isn't playing in a super team himself or like he didn't jump franchises around trying to find a super team he liked the most.
what about baron davis and zo? or lj and glen rice?
Hyperactivity
Banned
Lue also out coached Kerr is the finals last year, down the stretch. Cavs just came in with a better anti-warriors strategy
Shit man, if you don't like me you could've just said so
How many MVPs does LeBron have on his team? There's a difference between having 2 MVPs and 3 guys that can go off for 50 whenever they want and two other good players.
MugiwaraCole
Member
Blowing 3 straight finals games as the best regular season team of all time with the first unanimous MVP against the best player in the world, and maybe all time<<<<<<blowing a 3 TD lead as a perennial choker against the best QB to ever play the game.
Both were just horrible, though lmao.
Lol yep
You'd be the best if it wasn't for that ash avi. When's that bet over anyways.
And damn, imagine Mike Brown getting out coached in the finals... against Lebron.
Hyperactivity
Banned
I choose to believe that if Kevin Harlan does our games, we'll win
Hope we see more of those nasty Harden and Ryno step-back jumpers, Nene mid-range shots (although he shot them on Friday, just missed) and Capela hook shots to punish the Spurs defense. Just enough to keep them honest. Harden and Ryno and Nene are efficient enough at those shots such that they're worth it.
Also, do we need another infusion of anime in this anime thread?
I'm keeping it on because I had another bet that I haven't fulfilled and am planning to get to this summer - watching all of Best Wishes and making a thread where I go over it episode by episode
Although I'm seriously tempted to change it to the Patrick Beverley xenomorph temporarily
Hope we see more of those nasty Harden and Ryno step-back jumpers, Nene mid-range shots (although he shot them on Friday, just missed) and Capela hook shots to punish the Spurs defense. Just enough to keep them honest. Harden and Ryno and Nene are efficient enough at those shots such that they're worth it.
Also, do we need another infusion of anime in this anime thread?
I'm keeping it on because I had another bet that I haven't fulfilled and am planning to get to this summer - watching all of Best Wishes and making a thread where I go over it episode by episode
Although I'm seriously tempted to change it to the Patrick Beverley xenomorph temporarily
Gully State
Member
That Knicks team was not the same type of small ball team you see today.
-Their pace was at the bottom of the league for that season at 86.9 per 48 min (84.9 in the playoffs so even lower 11 out of 16 teams)...which is abysmal even for that era. This was a team that walked the ball up and milked each and every possession on the shotclock...in fact, I think that Knicks team was the one that popularized "slowball". If anything, we probably wouldn't have the handcheck rules that we have today if it wasn't for the Knicks and Spurs of that era.
-Even though they shot more 3's than anyone else total in the playoffs, they did it over 20 games, which was the most played out of all teams. It ends up being 11 per game, which even for that playoffs wasn't much
- That team scrapped their way through the playoffs with pesky physical defense and timely jumpshooting. The Spurs with their Robinson/Duncan tandem only served to solidify the already established dogma that jumpshooting teams can't win against teams with better big men.
-Also the lockout shortened season was wacky given the amount of back 2 backs and players in poor conditioning. Any trends that came out of that year pretty much need to be taken with a grain of salt.
If anything, the real architect for all this is Don Nelson. There wasn't a single coach out there that thought to play small ball prior to him. People seem to forget that Pop was his assistant coach during the Run TMC years and really wanted to bring Nellie aboard as HC when he took the job in San Antonio to be GM.
What the fuck, Harrell almost never plays this postseason because it's only Capela and Nene doing the center work.
Harden makes 5X that a game...doubt it's a big deal.
Gully State
Member
Turning the switching defense against the Warriors so that Curry was iso'd 1 v1 was impressive. It was weird, even being up 2-1, I remember getting this impression that Cleveland getting progressively healthier whereas the Warriors just looked worn every successive game.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Moore did a good analysis on the adjustments the Rockets need to make
Harrell is undersized against both the teams we're facing. He also can't shoot the 3 (yet, he's working on it, and if he can get minutes at the four next year, it will be glorious defensively). That being said, I wish he would get some minutes at the 4, because he has a really good mid-range and might be one of our best Kawhi defenders (also means we have two Kawhi defenders for switches) with his length.
We need to take better advantage of the mid-range shots the Spurs are giving us, at least enough to keep them honest and thus give us good driving lanes again. Harrell adds to that, plus has a soft touch around the rim.
1. Did Paul Westhead not play small-ball? I know he played up-tempo, crazily paced games, where the reliance on offense > defense was a little too much, but still.
2. Your forgot the 90s Heat, and the early 2000s Pacers and Pistons when talking about handchecking.
3. I wonder how teams would fare today if hand-checking, along with flooding the paint in zone, plus the deep 3s being taken and analytics showing which shots were efficient, were all brought back. It would be a weird mix of both offense and defense improving.
What the fuck, Harrell almost never plays this postseason because it's only Capela and Nene doing the center work.
Harrell is undersized against both the teams we're facing. He also can't shoot the 3 (yet, he's working on it, and if he can get minutes at the four next year, it will be glorious defensively). That being said, I wish he would get some minutes at the 4, because he has a really good mid-range and might be one of our best Kawhi defenders (also means we have two Kawhi defenders for switches) with his length.
We need to take better advantage of the mid-range shots the Spurs are giving us, at least enough to keep them honest and thus give us good driving lanes again. Harrell adds to that, plus has a soft touch around the rim.
1. Did Paul Westhead not play small-ball? I know he played up-tempo, crazily paced games, where the reliance on offense > defense was a little too much, but still.
2. Your forgot the 90s Heat, and the early 2000s Pacers and Pistons when talking about handchecking.
3. I wonder how teams would fare today if hand-checking, along with flooding the paint in zone, plus the deep 3s being taken and analytics showing which shots were efficient, were all brought back. It would be a weird mix of both offense and defense improving.
Gully State
Member
I'd argue that the Knicks popularized the slow your pace, milk the clock, abuse the hand check to the next level. Yeah, the heat also did it too, but the Knicks eventually just did it better.
Hyperactivity
Banned
It was basically the two Pat Riley teams in the 90s, which is funny given his rise to fame during Showtime.
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