-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
NBA 2017 Playoffs |OT| WE DID IT
- Thread starter Jarate
- Start date
- Status
It's just basically cancelling out each other. Kyrie can't guard IT, but IT can't guard Kyrie either. Bradley and JR will probably be the ones defending the opposing PGs.
He's just doing his part to bring competitive balance to the league. Hopefully guys like KD and Curry follow his example
friskykillface
Banned
They will switch all game to get Thomas on LeBron
IT is then going to
A) foul him
B) let him score
C) foul him after scoring
What they should do is what the Warriors should have done last finals, let the original person go under the screen to bait LeBron into shooting a 3
I'd rather have LeBron beat me from 3 instead of making my player get tired x foul out
Celtics can easily lose the next two, playoff Amir says it's not over yet
IT is then going to
A) foul him
B) let him score
C) foul him after scoring
What they should do is what the Warriors should have done last finals, let the original person go under the screen to bait LeBron into shooting a 3
I'd rather have LeBron beat me from 3 instead of making my player get tired x foul out
Celtics can easily lose the next two, playoff Amir says it's not over yet
True Savior
Member
That was the most Spurs thing ever. The didn't even got hot from the 3 . They just executed beautifully. Looking for mismatches, slowing the game down, crashing the boards, great transition defense, Simmons nagging Harden in every single play. Hell, they rode a bunch of 2-3rd unit in the 2nd quarter (Murray, Simmons, Lee and Anderson all playing together!) and you could see how every guy knew the game-plan. That's why they excel under Pop. They execute whatever it is set.
Rockets fans is Ariza so terrible he couldn't stay with one of the big men from the Spurs? I like D'Antoni style but his lack of adjustments in-game is always a bit weird. Why the hell was Harden always with a big body? They exploited it every possession.
Warriors are a whole other beast, the talent difference is just too big but this guys have earned a massive respect. Shame Pau is so old, cause he would have been perfect against the Warriors.
When they showed a stat that this was the 20th time in a row that Pop was in the playoffs I thought the exact same thing. That's a Lebron kind of record.
Rockets fans is Ariza so terrible he couldn't stay with one of the big men from the Spurs? I like D'Antoni style but his lack of adjustments in-game is always a bit weird. Why the hell was Harden always with a big body? They exploited it every possession.
Warriors are a whole other beast, the talent difference is just too big but this guys have earned a massive respect. Shame Pau is so old, cause he would have been perfect against the Warriors.
When they showed a stat that this was the 20th time in a row that Pop was in the playoffs I thought the exact same thing. That's a Lebron kind of record.
the_batman
Banned
except Pop did it in the West
Caddywompus
Member
I have a running theory that Parker never got hurt but infiltrated the Rocket's locker room disguised with only a beard, took out Harden and his spot as HOU starting PG.
Either that or Harden thought they were still voting on MVP and wanted to show how bad the Rockets are without him.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Gonna do a Post-mortem, by I do think the players with an incredibly reliable mid-range should, if the defense is closing out and protecting the rim too much, giving them easy mid-range looks, capitalize on that opportunity only enough to remind them that it's still a weapon. Rockets would have been well-served if harden and ryno hit their mid-range step back a little more, just enough to punish the spurs defense, imoThere's a reason the mid-range game is shunned.
When the entire league shoots as good or better from 3, you shoot the 3.
I know the Rockets look like dog shit tonight, but the Warriors' weakness on defense is pick and roll. Zaza is a statue, David West is too old and undersized, Javale is too dumb(sorry buddy). Steph and Durant aren't great on ball pick and roll defenders either. Utah had a lot of open looks at corner 3s because Draymond was leaving to help. Seeing how that's all the Rockets run, they would have been the tougher match up... on paper.
Aldridge is almost Dirk in pick and pop and post up jumpers in that they go in or they don't, there's no guarding a 7 foot tall big guy taking those, but Draymond has been good at it so far. I don't know why, but he has. If that continues, the Spurs don't have an advantage anywhere. Sure, this is the match up for Kawhi's defense to shine, but this isn't like where you d up Lebron and the Heat sink because everyone is old and broken.
Like I said, Mike Brown is the guy to watch cause:
I agree, Draymond shuts down Blake, and unfortunately I see him doing the same to Aldridge. Which would mean Aldridge just fucking hates houston
Guess he's a longhorn, at the very least.
Hyperactivity
Banned
The Harden/Beverley/Gordon/Ariza/Capela lineup did work against the two bigs Pop had, and Harden is a good post defender, but we were making Harden defend in the post far too often. He might've gotten tired.
I'm still pissed off at the fact that had D'Antoni included Dekker or even Harrell in the game 5 lineup, we probably win that game. SMH.
Oh well, pop just showed why he was the best coach in the game. Also, near the end of the series, o swear to God it looked like D'Antoni himself was shook against Pop, which, is, not good. Like, you saw Bzdelick being the one yelling on the sideline.
This thread gets real dumb during the playoffs
Go for it. D'Antoni has his shit together schematically. I don't think he was out coached in that sense against the Spurs. How much you want to blame his team for failing to execute, do you think he failed to have his team raring for a fight last night, that's up in the air.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Can we cut your posts and laugh at you when GSW body the Spurs? The only chance the Spurs actually have is Mike Brown being a dumbass of epic proportions. He's the Spurs x factor.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
lol.. Curry is going to embarrass every single big and whatever back up PG plays. But keep counting on the first game of the season and a game where no starters played as a measuring stick. Curious to see if Kawhi is going to shut down KD this time around or watch him school him badly like last year.
Cornbread78
Member
Man, this is interesting:
https://www.google.com/amp/nesn.com...st-round-pick-predictions-before-lottery/amp/
Tuesday is going to be interesting
https://www.google.com/amp/nesn.com...st-round-pick-predictions-before-lottery/amp/
Tuesday is going to be interesting
lol.. Curry is going to embarrass every single big and whatever back up PG plays. But keep counting on the first game of the season and a game where no starters played as a measuring stick. Curious to see if Kawhi is going to shut down KD this time around or watch him school him badly like last year.
Its Kevin Durant, he's going to score on anyone if he wants to. Against the Spurs, he averaged 30. Against Golden State, he averaged 30. He isn't the former MVP and scoring leader for no reason.
I mean, the Spurs might as well trade Kawhi based on how trash you think he is considering all you do is snipe at the guy.
cr_blah_blah
Member
lol.. Curry is going to embarrass every single big and whatever back up PG plays. But keep counting on the first game of the season and a game where no starters played as a measuring stick. Curious to see if Kawhi is going to shut down KD this time around or watch him school him badly like last year.
Are you replying to your own posts to end your post?
Monochromaticx
Member
LMAO
I have the highest score on the gaf bracket ?
😎 nice
I have the highest score on the gaf bracket ?
😎 nice
my name is ed
Banned
lol no, GS offense is dependent on off ball movement and screens and passing.
As far as I can tell, Rockets are based off the pick and roll from the top with Harden making the decisions from there.
Pretending GS is full of 'meme chuckers' also ignores the passing from the high post that you get from Green, West and KD
but mostly, you just sound salty
Starphoenix
Member
I sure hope so Ginobli. >_>
Do it Spurs.
Tragicomedy
Member
This is as bad as Bread's take that this game proved he wanted Harden over anyone else in a game 6.
Umm, you had him in a must-win game 6 and he was trash. Harden turning the ball over, missing a ton of shots, and deferring to everyone else doesn't show how bad the team is without him. It shows how bad the team is when he's playing like complete dog shit.
If Harden sat out this game, you might be on to something.
Not...really.
GS uses a series of back screens, down screens, ball movement along the wings, and a passing big man to spread the floor and take what are good threes for their players or get to the basket on a backdoor cut.
Houston uses the high pick n roll with Harden or Gordon/Williams then Harden/Lou Will/Gordon either has enough space to take a three because of a rolling Capela/a popping Anderson, or they roll to the basket for a layup, or they can kick out to someone wide open. Not a lot of movement off ball though.
Cornbread78
Member
I actually had the night off and when my wife went to bed I switch over to check the game out since I never get to watch any. I was not expecting THAT kind of score. I tried to console Lines with a gif, but he wasn't having it..... $hit was brutal...
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
I'm a bit hard on him, but it's sad that this is considered me thinking a player is trash. Other superstars have gotten a ton of flak from a lot of posters, and this is what's considered hating on him (they closed g5 and 6 away without him). Kawhi even though he didn't play the last game and OT, proved to be better than Harden who choked it all away.
What's sad is how the two MVPs of the RS have done this PS. :\ Bottom of the list now for Harden next to WB in the list of superstars.
You still think Spurs will win it all?
Spurs in 3.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Yup, and one of the earlier 3-1 comebacks. Best playoff run of all time, even down to the sweep in the finals, because that sweep gave that team one last "we're truly at the top of the league" declaration.
I don't care about Jordan not playing till the end of the season. Had Jordan faced the Rockets that year, he loses.
My take has been verified by science, Harden is clear MVP.
Latvian Hitman
Member
There's a reason the mid-range game is shunned.
When the entire league shoots as good or better from 3, you shoot the 3.
This tooty-fruity analytics horseshit doesn't hold up in the postseason. It looks great over a large sample size of games, but it also fails to take a lot of important things into account:
- not all shots are created equally. A good, in-rhythm 16-footer by an open shooter is a better shot than a contested 3. A contested shot at the rim is a better shot than a contested 3, for a lot of reasons that this chart can't address.
- Not all shooters are created equally. I'd rather have KD shooting a contested mid-range jumper than Andre Roberson shooting a wide open 3.
- Missed 3's are more likely to lead to long rebounds and runouts the other way. Charts like these never take into account how many points are given up on the average miss.
The mid-range game has been shunned in the last few years, as you say, but that doesn't mean it's not still important- especially in the playoffs. Good defensive teams in the postseason are going to run you off the 3-point line and try to close off the paint. Their main objective is to try and force you into taking those mid-range shots. You need to be able to make them.
The last major problem with charts like this is that the postseason turns into a small sample. Defenses ratchet up their intensity. Teams get to know each other really well over the course of a series. Windows tighten, and as you get into games 5, 6 and 7, the difference between winning and losing is often going to come down to star players ability to make contested shots at the end of ugly possessions. You need to be able to win a game 5 when the 3's aren't falling. You don't just jack up 50 3's because the chart says so. That's how you lose series.
/end rant
BlackGhost
Banned
I think the Cav should play basketball again.
This is why you're my mentor <3
DerangedHermit
Member
Forgot to post this shit last night: https://streamable.com/3e3qy
Manu's reaction is awesome. Probably also thinking "You mean i could've done that all along?!? DIOS MIO!"
Manu's reaction is awesome. Probably also thinking "You mean i could've done that all along?!? DIOS MIO!"
Randolph Freelander
Member
Listen, Charles. You're just going to have to accept that jump-shooting teams can win.
thehypocrite
Member
This post is good stuff. Thanks for that.
Dreams-Visions
Member
too soon.
Lord James has yet to emerge from his hyperbaric chamber. He has a few more souls to drain first.
I think he's the same guy that said he's not a top 25 offensive player last year. Some people just aren't big fans of Kawhi.
I think he easily the 4th best player in basketball. He's already great but he does need to work on his passing and vision when he goes into attack mode. I also would love to see him play with a true passing pg who can get him the ball in good spots. I hope Murray is this guy .
Hyperactivity
Banned
Alrighty then, Rockets post-mortem, and going on to next season.
1) This shit about the Toyota Center and shooting needs to change.
https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2008-02-01-notes-houston-rims_N.htm
http://spacecityscoop.com/2016/12/31/ryan-anderson-struggles-in-houston/
If we're gonna continue to have Ryno on our roster (we will, btw)
2) One of the things that hurt us in this series was our short rotation. Yes, the 7 man game is most notable, but there's just the general flexibility being willing to change things up gives. The game changer, imo, was when Simmons started to get minutes. The biggest mark against him is his decision making (he stayed disciplined) and shooting, iirc. But, on the other hand, he brought another, tougher, more physical defender onto Harden. Restart the series, and Spurs still win if we don't have a Simmons answer, because Kawhi doesn't have to exhaust himself defending Harden and playing on offense. Simmons basically gave the Spurs a mini-Kawhi.
The Rockes aren't all that lengthy/athletic. So Simmons posed a major issue. This was a major part of why I wanted Dekker and Harrell getting minutes - because of their athleticism.
3) Speaking of defense exhausting stars, Harden guarding LMA and Pau really screwed us over, not necessarily in its effectiveness so much as the way it tired Harden out to constantly be the centerpoint of the opponent's offense. Gordon and Harden, for example, should've taken turns with guarding PF/C.
4) On Ryno at center - Dekker being out there with Ryno was the right move, and Dekker crashes the boards better and can still stretch the floor/guard out to the perimeter, but I honestly would've liked to seen some of Ryno as center on defense and PF on offense, and Montrezl Harrell guarding PF on defense/going out to the perimeter more on defense, and center on offense. I think, if Ryno is going to be center, that preference for a stretch 4 was a little less necessary.
5) I also really like Dekker and Harrell especially as energy guys, as they typically immediately help, along BEverley, whenever we're playing without any of energy.
6) I kept waiting for D'Antoni to have a Kerr/Pop explosion. It never happened. Beverley is typically the energy guy, and Harden normally is great at keeping cool and leading, at least this season. There needed to be some injection, some sort of timeout just to yell at our players. If the entire team is amicable (great for chemistry), that can still have its downsides.
7) On the mid-range shot:
I'm gonna use Kawhi as the reference point here, because he's amazingly accurate
NENE:
Harden:
Ryan Anderson:
Lou Williams
Montrezl Harrell
We have players capable of accurately shooting mid-range shots, most notably Nene, Harden, Ryno, and Harrell. There have been too many games this year where the 3 pointers weren't falling, but we kept it close. We were missing shots we normally make. In those sorts of situations, when the team knows they're not making shots, yes, it's important to let shooters keep shooting, but it is also worth considering punishing the defense when it's focusing on just defending the rim and perimeter, nothing in between, to shoot the mid-range shot.
Think of it like this, if you like what the Rockets have done: the Rockets shoot long 3s that aren't as heavily defended, and might be a little less efficient, but also force the defense of other teams to stretch itself further out. The mid-range is a similar concept, just with 2s. Make the defense respect the shot, just shoot something like 5-10 per game at max, and that would help immensely.
What's more, certain players, especially Ryno and Harrell, are more capable of creating on their own for their mid-range shots.
8) Off-ball movement: the Rockets definitely have an off-ball playbook. Many of our most successful plays, especially out of timeout, are based off of it (We're the highest scoring team in the league out of timeouts - D'Antoni is a master on offense). Maybe, for the playoffs, have plays set up such that Harden even plays like a shooting guard again, playing off-ball. It's not ideal, except for the fact that it can have the element of surprise in it.
9) Games where Harden is taking over the offense because no one can score are traps. This was game 5. They are always traps. Your star going on fire during the first half is rarely a good thing.
10) Harden, and where he can improve - the next step is limiting turnovers. He had a season and summer of becoming a pass-first point guard, the next development is hopefully that he limits his turnovers effectively.
11) Capela in this series was amazing. Always where he needed to be on defense, always showing energy, he seriously looks amazing for the future.
12) One of the key reasons I doubt another 2015 to 2016 situation happens here is that Harden and the Rockets staff have had experience with that sort of situation now, and the way the season ended. Harden seems to always work his ass off when he has a bad season/playoffs, and while it wasn't exactly bad, the ending will hopefully be in his mind this off-season.
13) The other main reason, and the main reason I think the Rockets are better next year, is our youth. For one, asides from Nene and Ariza, our entire group was in their primes. Even better, if Harrell manages a 3P% > 32% (imo, where he'll focus this summer, say from the corner, he can get minutes at the 4 and help us like crazy defensively.
Capela will be better (hopefully). I'm especially impressed with the work he's done on his free throws, he's gone from a 17.4% to 37.9% to 53.1% free throw shooter (2.7 FTA per game the last two seasons) and was 61.5% from the line on 3.5 attempts. Dwight, take notes.
Dekker will be better, and be bale to be our next Ariza (that's his goal long-term, iirc). Which is important, as Ariza and Harden get a ton of minutes and Ariza can be baaaaad when gassed.
A major way this helps us is in fast-breaks. Corey Brewer was trash the last two seasons, but he was also one of our fastest runners, and best in transition when he didn't trip over himself as if he was a doe. Dekker, Harrell, Capela, all of these players our great at running from one end of the floor to another. The Rockets' main rotation just doesn't have enough of these sorts of guys.
I also think Chinanu Onuaku gets minutes too, as a possible Nene replacement (hopefully he doesn't have to "replace" for a while, NENE PLEASE STAY), with the way he can rebound. He's another bruiser type, generally pretty strong, and while not the most agile, I think a season getting minutes will probably help with that. He also is a great free throw shooter, with the way he shoots underhanded. Dwight, take notes.
So yeah, if the Rockets want to become even better, and the reason why I think they become better, we need to be more flexible with our rotations, our young players need to continue to develop, and Harden should take the next step and limit his turnovers more. Be more willing to shoot mid-range, not to stray from D'Antoni's great scheme or style or anything, more to remind teams that it's a weapon the Rockets have.
And no, Line, we're not trading Ryno ffs. He stretches the floor like crazy, the team struggled without him near the end of the season.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
Latvian Hitman
Member
Erm...one of the main things I was arguing for was that the mid-range shot is still relevant in today's NBA. Last I checked, that's still considered to be a jump shot.
Jump-shooting teams can certainly win in the postseason. But they're not going to win by following that chart to the exclusion of everything else.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Hyperactivity
Banned
Close, but not entirely there. Main thing is that long rebounds, for a team that's on top of things with their transition defense, and is used to shooting 3s a ton, then long rebounds that often let smaller teams compete on the boards are almost entirely beneficial. And while 50 3s might be excessive, one of the easiest ways to limit a 3 pt shooting team is to limit the attempts they get. 30-45 3s is a perfectly fine range.
Otherwise, you're good
Cornbread78
Member
friskykillface
Banned
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll