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NBA Offseason 2017 |OT| Only Big Ballers™ Allowed *please pay $495 to be a Big Baller

Duxxy3

Duxxy3

Member
friskykillface said:
Crowder was already going to be mad af if he stayed, he would have rode the bench since 🐐ward is here

Ask for Fyre Ainge
Click to expand...

If the deal falls through, Crowder comes back. He knows it's business and wasn't in the long term plans. He'll be fine. Zizic doesn't care either way.

Isaiah... if the injury is legit, who knows when he'll be back. Maybe that gives him enough time to cool down.
 
J

jbug617

Banned
Bobby Marks think if the Celtics trade their own 2018 pick than that should be enough for a Kyrie. He argues that Kyrie is franchise pg for the C's for the next 8 yrs.
 
C

Caddywompus

Member
Can a pick be protected by how many games a players plays? I feel like there's been compensation when a player fails to maintain health goals but maybe I'm just thinking of player contracts.
 
J

jdstorm

Banned
Eleuin said:
in a talent starved league like the nba more teams need to trade for low picks because their former top ones didn't work out

clearly another player like Irving won't help anymore than the likes of Kenneth Faried, Nolan Smith & Iman Shumpert
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Clearly high lotto picks are the only way to get talent (eyeroll) lets just ignore that 7/15 all NBA players this year were drafted 15th or later or that 8/10 All Defense players were drafted 15 or later with Chris Paul (one of 2 top 3 picks) being a questionable decision.

Bread said:
A rebuild isn't possible with lotto picks, you need the college seniors and raw underperforming freshman in the early 20s. Also you need a power forward that can't get playing time on a playoff team.
Click to expand...

Ultimately unless you are a good drafting team you need as many chances as you can get to try and get a good player. Besides Cleveland will have their own pick deep in the lotto from which to try and get a star or 2 so if they draft well (unlikey but this question exists about the brooklyn pick too) then they are set in 3 years to start the climb back to relevance. With 1 or 2 stars.

Monroe is just a useful backup big with a large expiring contract that there will be no presure to pay next summer. Nothing more. Perhaps a good trade asset to go after Boogie at the deadlie if New Orleans is looking to trade him.

Ultimately volume of picks and having Milwaukee's unprotected pick in 5 years time is nice. It leads to one of 2 scenarios

1. Kyrie + Milwaukee works out, the Bucks win multiple championships and Dan Gilbert gets to screw over Lebron and The Warriors. The picks are largely worthless but thats OK because Lebron gets no more rings.

2. Kyrie leaves Milwaukee as soon as Humanly possible and Milwaukee is now stuck with a hugely expensive roster (Parker needs to get paid soon) and a flawed depth chart. Milwaukee falls apart and those picks become worth a nice return.

Either of those scenarios should work nicely for Cleveland.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Caddywompus said:
Can a pick be protected by how many games a players plays? I feel like there's been compensation when a player fails to maintain health goals but maybe I'm just thinking of player contracts.
Click to expand...

No. NFL often has this kind of compensation qualifiers for picks but I've never seen it in the NBA.

Even if it's just a matter of Cleve getting cold feet or re-thinking their stance on IT, this is hilarious. Why would you not wait to announce it? This has the potential to be the Celtics' basketball reasons.
 
M

mjp2417

Banned
jdstorm said:
Clearly high lotto picks are the only way to get talent (eyeroll) lets just ignore that 7/15 all NBA players this year were drafted 15th or later or that 8/10 All Defense players were drafted 15 or later with Chris Paul (one of 2 top 3 picks) being a questionable decision.



Ultimately unless you are a good drafting team you need as many chances as you can get to try and get a good player. Besides Cleveland will have their own pick deep in the lotto from which to try and get a star or 2 so if they draft well (unlikey but this question exists about the brooklyn pick too) then they are set in 3 years to start the climb back to relevance. With 1 or 2 stars.
Click to expand...

The Spurs, ever since drafting Tim Duncan first overall, have been the gold standard for success drafting out of the lottery. Out of the 15 first round picks that they have made during that time which we can largely evaluate (it's too early for Derrick White and Dejaunte Murray and I'm counting Kawhi as their own pick despite that not being technically the case) only 2 have turned into stars (Kawhi and Tony Parker), one has turned into a solid starter (George Hill), and the rest are/were either decent rotation players like Tiago Splitter and Corey Joseph or busts. Even if you give those Milwaukee picks to R.C. fucking Buford it is significantly more likely than not that you aren't even getting a single solid NBA starter out of them, much less multiple stars. This isn't how the NBA works. This isn't how the NBA has ever worked. You don't forsake top 5 picks for picks in the 20's.
 
E

Eleuin

Member
jdstorm said:
Clearly high lotto picks are the only way to get talent (eyeroll) lets just ignore that 7/15 all NBA players this year were drafted 15th or later or that 8/10 All Defense players were drafted 15 or later with Chris Paul (one of 2 top 3 picks) being a questionable decision.
Click to expand...

Let me guess which half of the draft has players more consistently chosen for honors/awards...

But course its all nba or nothing right, I mean its not like teams are willing to pay Hayward a bit more instead of having to settle for the likes of Batum, Parsons or Crabbe

Nah lets just pray a generational talent falls in our lap instead of being in a better position to get the player we like
 
J

jdstorm

Banned
mjp2417 said:
The Spurs, ever since drafting Tim Duncan first overall, have been the gold standard for success drafting out of the lottery. Out of the 15 first round picks that they have made during that time which we can largely evaluate (it's too early for Derrick White and Dejaunte Murray and I'm counting Kawhi as their own pick despite that not being technically the case) only 2 have turned into stars (Kawhi and Tony Parker), one has turned into a solid starter (George Hill), and the rest are/were either decent rotation players like Tiago Splitter and Corey Joseph or busts. Even if you give those Milwaukee picks to R.C. fucking Buford it is significantly more likely than not that you aren't even getting a single solid NBA starter out of them, much less multiple stars. This isn't how the NBA works. This isn't how the NBA has ever worked. You don't forsake top 5 picks for picks in the 20's.
Click to expand...

Except you are discounting that the Cavs own pick will be in the lottery. Clevelands own pick will be in the top 5 for 3-4 years minimum if the last time Lebron left is a solid precedent.

In the NBA you can only really afford to pay 3 Allstars and Cleveland with 5 picks in the top say 7 over the next 5 years (the length the milwaukee deal would return picks for) will get a great opportunity to get at least 2 Allstars in that period. So in this context a best case scenario for the brooklyn pick maybe speeds up the tanking/rebuilding process by 25% (Assuming its a top 5 pick which is far from 100%) if Cleveland hve a 1 in 4 chance of drafting an Allstar with a top 5 pick.

Eleuin said:
Let me guess which half of the draft has players more consistently chosen for honors/awards...

But course its all nba or nothing right, I mean its not like teams are willing to pay Hayward a bit more instead of having to settle for the likes of Batum, Parsons or Crabbe

Nah lets just pray a generational talent falls in our lap instead of being in a better position to get the player we like
Click to expand...

Elite talent obviously matters and i was never discounting that. However Clevelands timeline is tricky because they need to both "Win now" and have assets for rebuilding post Lebron in 2018/19

Trading Kyrie for an elite anything is impossible because you aren't getting an upgrade over Kyrie after he asked out and tanked his value without including more future assets. (A big no/no) Aditionally any good player Cleveland aquires would hurt the Cavs chances of tanking and Cleveland badly need to shed sallary.

With that in mind Cleveland is looking for 1 solid starter, a large expiring contract and the best picks they can get their hands on.

The list of large expiring contracts in the NBA right now is tiny and most teams want to keep them. Yet if Cleveland go after a Monroe/Kyrie trade they are in a position where in Monroe they get a useful asset (A solid situational rotation player with a big expiring contract) who currently has negative trade value which allows Cleveland to leverage Milwaukee for better picks which can be traded later then they could if they were trading with another team with a more valuable expiring contract.
 
L

LyleLanley

Banned
The idea that the C's were completely transparent and the Cavs are considering backing out just for more picks seems crazy. No GM would be willing to risk his reputation like that right?
 
L

Lazy vs Crazy

Member
LyleLanley said:
The idea that the C's were completely transparent and the Cavs are considering backing out just for more picks seems crazy. No GM would be willing to risk his reputation like that right?
Click to expand...

Would a GM who has been in the job over a decade, who has a good reputation, lie about something that they knew would be discovered a few days later in a physical?
 
L

LyleLanley

Banned
Lazy vs Crazy said:
Would a GM who has been in the job over a decade, who has a good reputation, lie about something that they knew would be discovered a few days later in a physical?
Click to expand...

I also don't think Ainge lied about the medical records. This whole thing is strange. If the Cavs really are trying to get more assets by screwing the C's I hope it comes back to bite them in the ass somehow.
 
K

Kwhit10

Member
LyleLanley said:
I also don't think Ainge lied about the medical records. This whole thing is strange. If the Cavs really are trying to get more assets by screwing the C's I hope it comes back to bite them in the ass somehow.
Click to expand...

You mean by Cleveland becoming completely irrelevant in the NBA forever once LeBron leaves?
 
C

Caddywompus

Member
Lazy vs Crazy said:
Would a GM who has been in the job over a decade, who has a good reputation, lie about something that they knew would be discovered a few days later in a physical?
Click to expand...

Why do think he lied? It seemed pretty apparent the inclusion of the BKN pick was meant to offset the value of their injured All-star. If IT was 100% CLE would be getting the MEM or LAC pick.
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
LyleLanley said:
The idea that the C's were completely transparent and the Cavs are considering backing out just for more picks seems crazy. No GM would be willing to risk his reputation like that right?
Click to expand...

The Celtics could have been completely transparent but the Cavs' doctors had a different assessment of IT's hip. There doesn't have to be anything nefarious.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Gigglepoo said:
The Celtics could have been completely transparent but the Cavs' doctors had a different assessment of IT's hip. There doesn't have to be anything nefarious.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what it sounds like more and more. Cavs doctor might disagree with Celts doctor on the idea of IT not needing surgery, which completely changes the trade if Cleveland banked on getting something out of IT this year.
 
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