• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

NBA Offseason 2017 |OT| Only Big Ballers™ Allowed *please pay $495 to be a Big Baller

Duxxy3

Duxxy3

Member
Bread said:
While spot up shooting and blocking shots may be all Ibaka is good for, the same is not true for KP. He has the advantage on handles, length, shooting off the dribble, all incredibly valuable things that lift him above role player status.


Of course he'll improve, but he will never be as good as KP and I'm sure of that. The NBA is about stars not role players, the latter of which Brown and the picks are likely to become. I'll trade 4 quarters for a dollar and get our star C for the next decade.
Click to expand...

I'm not at all sure of that.

Giving him up, plus Tatum/Isaac, plus potentially the #1 pick next year... it's a big no for me.

Not willing to draft pick that Danny actually "hit" on. Not after 1 year.
 
B

Boogs31

Member
charsace said:
Brown looks like he can eventually be a solid player. He didn't show anything that makes you think he'll be a star though and the numbers also didn't show it either.
Click to expand...

I see Brown as an elite role player. Not a franchise player but the next best thing. He's got great size and athleticism. He showed he's capable of hitting threes, attacking off the dribble and posting up smaller players. If he continues to improve all of those things plus become a good to great defender, he's awfully close to all star status.
 
K

Kevtones

Member
Steve Kyler @stevekylerNBA

Nothing specific - told meat of an offer would be some combination of Portland's picks this year and favorable salary
Click to expand...


Portland and San Antonio 'serious players' in securing PG13.
 
B

Bread

Banned
I'm not underestimating the Celtics assets, I've just seen enough drafts to know that it's a crapshoot. If you can give up picks for established stars, you're crazy not to. We don't even know where the BKN18 and LAL/SAC picks will fall and how the draft classes will look.
 
S

SwipeLeftHoney

Banned
Boogs31 said:
I see Brown as an elite role player. Not a franchise player but the next best thing. He's got great size and athleticism. He showed he's capable of hitting threes, attacking off the dribble and posting up smaller players. If you can do all of those things at a high level plus great defense, you are awfully close to all star status.
Click to expand...

Jaylen Brown is going to be a star. All the signs are there. He should be untouchable for thr Celtics.
 
C

charsace

Member
Boogs31 said:
I agree with that statement but KP to this point hasn't gotten a ton of extra production out of those extra skills and advantages. He still has made most of his living thus far off of catch and shoots. I definitely see the potential (I watched the game against Detroit in which he caught fire and showed the whole package), but those games were few and far between.



If you think three top 5 picks and Crowder is equal value, you aren't valuing the Celtics assets enough.
Click to expand...
Jaylen isn't a pick though. His value is that he's a young player and a gamble because nothing he showed in his first year indicates that he will amount to anything more than just a decent starter. In Porzingis the Celtics would getting a young big who is already one of the better bigs in the league. That fact that he is a good young big with upside raises his value a lot.
 
B

Boogs31

Member
Bread said:
I'm not underestimating the Celtics assets, I've just seen enough drafts to know that it's a crapshoot. If you can give up picks for established stars, you're crazy not to. We don't even know where the BKN18 and LAL/SAC picks will fall and how the draft classes will look.
Click to expand...

He's not an established star though. That's what I keep saying. He hasn't made an all star team. You are mistaking potential with current value. His ceiling could be really high. But currently he's just a solid player.
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
Bread said:
I'm not underestimating the Celtics assets, I've just seen enough drafts to know that it's a crapshoot. If you can give up picks for established stars, you're crazy not to. We don't even know where the BKN18 and LAL/SAC picks will fall and how the draft classes will look.
Click to expand...
There is probably a 100 Percent chance the Nets and Kings pick are top ten or better
 
C

Chase17

Member
Bread said:
I'm not underestimating the Celtics assets, I've just seen enough drafts to know that it's a crapshoot. If you can give up picks for established stars, you're crazy not to. We don't even know where the BKN18 and LAL/SAC picks will fall and how the draft classes will look.
Click to expand...
Players are assets too.

Gotta keep the picks to get the next KO though.
 
beat

beat

Member
Boogs31 said:
That's their main value. KP can also attack off the bounce. Neither have a post game. Guys that can hit threes and protect the rim are extremely rare and valuable. And again I'm comparing the current versions of the two guys. I competently understand that in 2 years it might be a silly comparison. But it isn't right now.
Click to expand...
Why do you need KP to have a post game? He would be incredibly valuable as a core part of a team that plays 5-out and he still gives you all the rim protection you could ask for unlike when most teams go small.
 
B

Boogs31

Member
charsace said:
Jaylen isn't a pick though. His value is that he's a young player and a gamble because nothing he showed in his first year indicates that he will amount to anything more than just a decent starter. In Porzingis the Celtics would getting a young big who is already one of the better bigs in the league. That fact that he is a good young big with upside raises his value a lot.
Click to expand...

We'll just have to agree to disagree on Brown. I think he eventually will be a third best player on a championship team.

My feeling about Porzingis is he'll improve and become an all star eventually but not a superstar. He's a scorer and rim protector. I haven't seen anything that shows me he's going to be a guy that makes other players better.
 
S

SwipeLeftHoney

Banned
charsace said:
What signs? I have seen nothing that points to Brown being a star. Numbers don't point to this being the case either.
Click to expand...

You saw flashes of it in his gameplay. Keep in mind he played pretty well for someone his age at that position on a team where he only saw good minutes when Bradley went down for part of the season. Jaylen Brown has a huge upside and now that he's had a season under his wing I expect a big improvement next season in him..
 
B

Boogs31

Member
beat said:
Why do you need KP to have a post game? He would be incredibly valuable as a core part of a team that plays 5-out and he still gives you all the rim protection you could ask for unlike when most teams go small.
Click to expand...

If all Porzingis is for the Celtics is a rim protector and floor spacer, that's not a franchise level player that you give up everything for.

The only way I give up what is rumored is if I see Porzingis eventually becoming a 30ppg guy. He's been way too inconsistent thus far for me to think that's possible (especially without a post game).
 
B

Bread

Banned
Jeff Green showed flashes of stardom too. It's far too early to tell if Brown is going to make the jump. Porzingis has shown that he has elite abilities at ages 19 and 20 with big improvements to shooting % and defense in his second year. The only thing that could possibly keep him from being a top 10 player is health.
 
K

Kevtones

Member
Shamrock7r said:
Where are y'all hearing that the Spurs are going for Paul George?
Click to expand...



Spurs and Trailblazers per Steve Kyler, NBA reporter. However he has no idea what the Spurs can offer while he has heard the Portland pitch.


Portland has more picks and better salary matches. LMA for PG13 might be their play.
 
Duxxy3

Duxxy3

Member
Bread said:
I'm not underestimating the Celtics assets, I've just seen enough drafts to know that it's a crapshoot. If you can give up picks for established stars, you're crazy not to. We don't even know where the BKN18 and LAL/SAC picks will fall and how the draft classes will look.
Click to expand...

Porzingis isn't an established star. He's a second year player. He has a lot more opportunity to show his skills, unlike all of Boston's young guys, because he plays on a shitty team with nobody in front of him.

He has potential, but so does Brown. There were times in the playoffs when Brown was undoubtedly the best player on the floor for Boston. His numbers never look good because he doesn't get the minutes that Porzingis gets. Brad pulls him when he makes mistakes.

Porzingis would be great on the Celtics, I just think that betting the farm on him is a mistake. At least if Brown is involved in the trade.
 
S

SwipeLeftHoney

Banned
Bread said:
Jeff Green showed flashes of stardom too. It's far too early to tell if Brown is going to make the jump. Porzingis has shown that he has elite abilities at ages 19 and 20 with big improvements to shooting % and defense in his second year. The only thing that could possibly keep him from being a top 10 player is health.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen elite anything in Porzingas. Dude hits open shots and gets the occasional dunk. Has he even cracked the 30 pt mark in his career yet in any games?
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Boogs31 said:
If all Porzingis is for the Celtics is a rim protector and floor spacer, that's not a franchise level player that you give up everything for.

The only way I give up what is rumored is if I see Porzingis eventually becoming a 30ppg guy. He's been way too inconsistent thus far for me to think that's possible (especially without a post game).
Click to expand...

Are you Byron scott?
 
T

True Savior

Member
My sources say

LMA + 3rd Boston pick to the Knicks
Rose and Paul George to the Spurs
Porzingis to Boston
Jayleen Brown and some white guy to the Pacers
 
S

spyder_ur

Member
Porzingis is pretty much one of the select few guys I would give up most of the farm for. Totally unique combination of valued skillset, youth, temperament, and team control.

Of course there's a limit though. I'd do Crowder plus #3 and 2018 BK (or LA/Sac pick) with very little hesitation and could probably be pushed for a bit more.
 
B

br3wnor

Member
SwipeLeftHoney said:
I haven't seen elite anything in Porzingas. Dude hits open shots and gets the occasional dunk. Has he even cracked the 30 pt mark in his career yet in any games?
Click to expand...

Yes, last season had a 35 and 31, but really that's what you're considering the metric for his overall value?

Beyond confounded by the Porzingis takes in here. I wish the rest of the league felt the same way so they couldn't dangle these fucking deals in front of our asleep at the wheel fucking clown of a team president.
 
B

Boogs31

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
Are you Byron scott?
Click to expand...

That's the second time you've compared me to him so apparently so. He was a great player and former coach of the year so I'll take it (even though I'm fully aware you're using that as an insult, referencing his more recent coaching failures).

My whole point this entire time has been Boston shouldn't give up everything they have asset wise for Porzingis. He's a good but not great player now. And when I say post up game, it can be a face up game too like Dirk, but he needs to become a more consistent scorer in end of shot clock, team needs a bucket situations.
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
SwipeLeftHoney said:
He's had three 30pt games and twelve double digit rebounding games in his career. Nothing about that says elite especially with him playing on a shitty Knicks team where he has the free will to shoot as he pleases.
Click to expand...

When you're playing on the same team as Melo and Rose you don't have the free will to shoot as you please.
 
L

LionPride

Banned
Boogs31 said:
That's the second time you've compared me to him so apparently so. He was a great player and former coach of the year so I'll take it (even though I'm fully aware you're using that as an insult, referencing his more recent coaching failures).

My whole point this entire time has been Boston shouldn't give up everything they have asset wise for Porzingis. He's a good but not great player now. And when I say post up game, it can be a face up game too like Dirk, but he needs to become a more consistent scorer in end of shot clock, team needs a bucket situations.
Click to expand...
Sam Mitchell was a CotY. Don't mean shit.

He's a 21 year old 7'3, athletic, long, shooting, posting up, fuck who gives the Celtics exactly what they need. Hell put his ass at Center and Al at PF amd just go. He's a consistent scorer, maybe watch games where he plays. It may help you.
 
B

Bread

Banned
SwipeLeftHoney said:
He's had three 30pt games and twelve double digit rebounding games in his career. Nothing about that says elite especially with him playing on a shitty Knicks team where he has the free will to shoot as he pleases.
Click to expand...
He is an elite shooter at the C position and an elite rim protector (538 had him 4th behind Green, Gobert, and AD). Plus he's 21 he'll be improving for years to come.

SwipeLeftHoney said:
Both those guys have missed so much time throughout the season so he's had plenty time to chuck as he pleases..
Click to expand...
He averaged 18 on 50% shooting...what do you want from him? You want him to take worse shots or something?
 
S

SwipeLeftHoney

Banned
Bread said:
He is an elite shooter at the C position and an elite rim protector (538 had him 4th behind Green, Gobert, and AD). Plus he's 21 he'll be improving for years to come.

He averaged 18 on 50% shooting...what do you want from him? You want him to take worse shots or something?
Click to expand...

I want him to dominate. Y'all acting like he's the second coming of Christ. The kid is good. But you guys are vastly overstating his talents.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Earth Defense Force 6 |OT| Not afraid of water
|OT| 2
92
4K
bender replied
Pre-Load size for NBA 2K23 on Xbox Series is over 150GB.
2 3
118
9K
theclaw135 replied
Outcast: A New Beginning | Review Thread + |OT|
|OT| Analysis Review 2
81
7K
SF Kosmo replied
February 16th is a Big Day for Nintendo Fans - MK9 And Nintendo Switch 2 Info (Leaks)
2 3 4 5 6
281
24K
StateofMajora replied
PlayStation Store sale begins May 25 2022 (Days of Play)
Deals
27
3K
skit_data replied
Top Bottom