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NBA Offseason |OT| "It's a complete shit move, but we're stuck with it now"

S

spyder_ur

Member
Nate Duncan's Dunc'd On Podcast had a two part 'mock offseason' where Nate was the player agent and three analysts (Pelton, Danny Leroux, Dan Feldman) each represented a group of teams. Pretty interesting stuff - very long. They go player by player.

My conclusion is that this summer is going to be absolutely crazy. Not speaking about the max or near max guys - but when this podcast breaks it down, it's clear that the third tier guys are going to rake it in after a day or two of free agency. I'm not sure people realize how much guys like Tyler Johnson, Seth Curry, Solomon Hill, Langston Galloway, Tim Frazier, Ian Mahinmi, etc. are going to fetch.

We'll laugh about the contracts here but we really are in a new reality.

Also, Jared Sullinger is the 8th best FA available.
 
L

LyleLanley

Banned
spyder_ur said:
Nate Duncan's Dunc'd On Podcast had a two part 'mock offseason' where Nate was the player agent and three analysts (Pelton, Danny Leroux, Dan Feldman) each represented a group of teams. Pretty interesting stuff - very long. They go player by player.

My conclusion is that this summer is going to be absolutely crazy. Not speaking about the max or near max guys - but when this podcast breaks it down, it's clear that the third tier guys are going to rake it in after a day or two of free agency. I'm not sure people realize how much guys like Tyler Johnson, Seth Curry, Solomon Hill, Langston Galloway, Tim Frazier, Ian Mahinmi, etc. are going to fetch.

We'll laugh about the contracts here but we really are in a new reality.

Also, Jared Sullinger is the 8th best FA available.
Click to expand...

I swear to god if the Celtics give Sully a max contract I will fight Ainge.

Edit:

Apparently it looks like Ante Zizic wants to come over to Boston this year instead of staying in Europe.
 
S

spyder_ur

Member
LyleLanley said:
What do we think the worst contract given out this summer is going to be? My money is on whatever Evan Turner gets.
Click to expand...

To me, it's about length rather than dollar figure. A contract is only truly terrible if it's getting into the 4-5 year range. Dwight is a top contender if the wrong team gives it to him. Marvin Williams could make $15M. The podcast settled on something like 4 years, $64 million for Lin - wow.

The Whiteside max terrifies me.

Also, we should stop talking about the 'max' like it's one thing. There's a ton of variations on it. The money isn't the only thing - if you hear players are demanding (and getting) stuff like 4th-5th year Player Options, Trade Kickers, etc., then it's time to be worried.

LyleLanley said:
I swear to god if the Celtics give Sully a max contract I will fight Ainge.

Edit:

Apparently it looks like Ante Zizic wants to come over to Boston this year instead of staying in Europe.
Click to expand...

The article I linked casually suggests $10-15M per. Sully's not useless, but that would be tough to swallow. I think they can move on from Sully fairly easily though; Turner, even though he might not be as good of a player, seems a little more important.

Where'd you read that about Zizic? Anything about summer league?
 
L

LyleLanley

Banned
spyder_ur said:
Where'd you read that about Zizic? Anything about summer league?
Click to expand...

Reporters on Twitter are saying that about Zizic based on talking to him since he got to Boston. As for Summer league, the only thing I've heard is that Young will probably be there for the third straight year along with Rozier, Hunter and presumably any of the rookies they don't ship off to Europe.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
spyder_ur said:
To me, it's about length rather than dollar figure. A contract is only truly terrible if it's getting into the 4-5 year range. Dwight is a top contender if the wrong team gives it to him. Marvin Williams could make $15M. The podcast settled on something like 4 years, $64 million for Lin - wow.

The Whiteside max terrifies me.

Also, we should stop talking about the 'max' like it's one thing. There's a ton of variations on it. The money isn't the only thing - if you hear players are demanding (and getting) stuff like 4th-5th year Player Options, Trade Kickers, etc., then it's time to be worried.



The article I linked casually suggests $10-15M per. Sully's not useless, but that would be tough to swallow. I think they can move on from Sully fairly easily though; Turner, even though he might not be as good of a player, seems a little more important.

Where'd you read that about Zizic? Anything about summer league?
Click to expand...

I was hesitant on the Whiteside max but the way money is being thrown around there aren't going to be an values to be had. Might as well throw max money at the 27 year old 2 way center who can play the PNR rather than Noah or Dwight.
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
LyleLanley said:
Couldn't they sign him first and then retain Williams and Batum using their Bird rights?
Click to expand...

I would have to look it up, but I think their cap holds would still price Lin out.

Edit: according to this site http://www.spotrac.com/nba/charlotte-hornets/cap/ , Charlotte's salaries + cap holds put them almost 20 million over the actual cap. They would have to renounce rights to some players and sign others to significantly less than their holds to free up room to sign Lin.
 
S

spyder_ur

Member
LyleLanley said:
Reporters on Twitter are saying that about Zizic based on talking to him since he got to Boston. As for Summer league, the only thing I've heard is that Young will probably be there for the third straight year along with Rozier, Hunter and presumably any of the rookies they don't ship off to Europe.
Click to expand...

Nice. I really want to see Zizic. I heard Young was playing. Presumably Mickey will be there. The second rounders (Jackson and Bentil) too. Stacked.

Ninja Scooter said:
I was hesitant on the Whiteside max but the way money is being thrown around there aren't going to be an values to be had. Might as well throw max money at the 27 year old 2 way center who can play the PNR rather than Noah or Dwight.
Click to expand...

My concerns on handing him that contract are entirely about his temperament, consistency and reliability. I think he was in a really good spot in Miami. I'd have concerns about throwing him to a rookie coach and a bunch of 20-25 year olds in LA.
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
LyleLanley said:
Reporters on Twitter are saying that about Zizic based on talking to him since he got to Boston. As for Summer league, the only thing I've heard is that Young will probably be there for the third straight year along with Rozier, Hunter and presumably any of the rookies they don't ship off to Europe.
Click to expand...
The Notre Dame guard we drafted is probably better than Rozier and we will end up waiving him. Young is a joke. Can hit shots in D league but not the NBA.
 
L

LyleLanley

Banned
Randolph Freelander said:
I would have to look it up, but I think their cap holds would still price Lin out.

Edit: according to this site http://www.spotrac.com/nba/charlotte-hornets/cap/ , Charlotte's salaries + cap holds put them almost 20 million over the actual cap. They would have to renounce rights to some players and sign others to significantly less than their holds to free up room to sign Lin.
Click to expand...

I guess it depends on what happens with Jefferson. If they get rid of him they would probably be able to keep everyone else.

Tom Penny said:
The Notre Dame guard we drafted is probably better than Rozier and we will end up waiving him. Young is a joke. Can hit shots in D league but not the NBA.
Click to expand...

But he's only 20! James Young is a cautionary tale of falling in love with a prospects potential.
 
L

LyleLanley

Banned
XPDjgJY.png


This summer is going to be so stupid.
 
P

phanphare

Banned
Randolph Freelander said:
Renouncing rights to Jefferson gets them to the cap, but they would have to also renounce Courtney Lee to free up enough room to make a market-reasonable offer to Lin.
Click to expand...

I feel like getting marco belinelli was them preparing for life without lee

also jefferson said that money isn't an issue with him, he wants to retire in charlotte. said he's fortunate that he was smart with his money up until now so he doesn't need that last big paycheck.
 
L

LyleLanley

Banned
phanphare said:
I feel like getting marco belinelli was them preparing for life without lee

also jefferson said that money isn't an issue with him, he wants to retire in charlotte. said he's fortunate that he was smart with his money up until now so he doesn't need that last big paycheck.
Click to expand...

That's great to say now but what happens when some team comes offering that huge paycheck?
 
J

jbug617

Banned
Horford Sweepstakes
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/16584686/atlanta-hawks-want-get-involved-kevin-durant-sweepstakes

The Hawks, of course, face a stiff challenge in trying to retain Horford, who sources say is expected to draw free-agent interest from a number of teams, including the Lakers, Rockets, Orlando Magic, Detroit Pistons, Washington Wizards, Boston Celtics and Brooklyn Nets.
Click to expand...

Lakers and Knicks trying to convince Durants agents to get a meeting with him but it doesn't look like that will happen.

Atlanta is also trying for Durant but if they miss out they are going to go after Dwight Howard. They want Howard and Horford to play together.
 
P

phanphare

Banned
LyleLanley said:
That's great to say now but what happens when some team comes offering that huge paycheck?
Click to expand...

we'll see. honestly I really don't care about keeping al. with cody moving to the 5 full time now and the hornets seemingly going after a rimprotecting big this off season we would end up with too many bigs who can't space the floor.
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
All of this discussion is moot since we know the Hornets are going to clear cap space and sign Kevin Durant.

If I know Kevin Durant like I know Kevin Durant, he loves the teal and purple.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Horford strikes me as this year's LMA, I think he'll try and go to a contender. Not sure why the Lakers are bothering to try and get meetings with him or Durant.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
The only problem for Horford is that I've read he is supposedly not interested in playing Center, which is probably where he is a best fit for teams with a ton of space.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
spyder_ur said:
Nate Duncan's Dunc'd On Podcast had a two part 'mock offseason' where Nate was the player agent and three analysts (Pelton, Danny Leroux, Dan Feldman) each represented a group of teams. Pretty interesting stuff - very long. They go player by player.

My conclusion is that this summer is going to be absolutely crazy. Not speaking about the max or near max guys - but when this podcast breaks it down, it's clear that the third tier guys are going to rake it in after a day or two of free agency. I'm not sure people realize how much guys like Tyler Johnson, Seth Curry, Solomon Hill, Langston Galloway, Tim Frazier, Ian Mahinmi, etc. are going to fetch.

We'll laugh about the contracts here but we really are in a new reality.

Also, Jared Sullinger is the 8th best FA available.
Click to expand...
I listened to this over the weekend, it's great. Dunc'd On in general may be the best basketball pod out there.

They also just put out a part 2, can't wait to listen.

Ninja Scooter said:
The only problem for Horford is that I've read he is supposedly not interested in playing Center, which is probably where he is a best fit for teams with a ton of space.
Click to expand...
Damn, no bueno. Not that he wouldn't be good for some teams playing the 4, but he's a perfect modern center imo.
 
K

Kwhit10

Member
LyleLanley said:
Supposedly Durant wants to play with Horford and the C's are one of the few teams that can add them both easily.
Click to expand...

I don't know about easily. They'd still have to shed a lot of salary. There was a vertical piece saying what teams had to shed just to get Durant at the max (26mil per) and the Cs still had to move pieces just for him. But they were in the easiest position cap wise.
 
S

spyder_ur

Member
Kwhit10 said:
I don't know about easily. They'd still have to shed a lot of salary. There was a vertical piece saying what teams had to shed just to get Durant at the max (26mil per) and the Cs still had to move pieces just for him. But they were in the easiest position cap wise.
Click to expand...

I think they'd just have to renounce the options on Amir and Jerebko. The problem is I think they need to do that this week before FA begins Friday. Those contracts are pretty good. Both would make way more money on the open market (Amir is at $12M, Jonas at $5M) and are very tradeable given the market, so I'd be surprised if the Celts did that. It might give a clue they think they can make big moves if they do.
 
L

LyleLanley

Banned
Kwhit10 said:
I don't know about easily. They'd still have to shed a lot of salary. There was a vertical piece saying what teams had to shed just to get Durant at the max (26mil per) and the Cs still had to move pieces just for him. But they were in the easiest position cap wise.
Click to expand...

It would be easy if they let Sullinger go and don't pick up the options of Amir and Jerebko.
 
J

Jarate

Banned
So, apparently, a local sports writer in philly just suggested Nerlens Noel and the Lakers pick next year for Shaun Livingston.

How does this guy have a job in sports? He apparently referred to the Lakers pick as "annoying" as well.

Those are the people that are anti-process btw, these were the idiots the NBA appealed too when they got rid of Hinkie.
 
L

LyleLanley

Banned
Jarate said:
So, apparently, a local sports writer in philly just suggested Nerlens Noel and the Lakers pick next year for Shaun Livingston.

How does this guy have a job in sports? He apparently referred to the Lakers pick as "annoying" as well.

Those are the people that are anti-process btw, these were the idiots the NBA appealed too when they got rid of Hinkie.
Click to expand...

Gotta get that championship experience no matter what the cost.
 
L

LyleLanley

Banned
Why Jaylen Brown Has "Ridiculous Upside"

It might take a little while for Celtics' fans to realize that Brown was the right pick, but fans should be patient with Brown because of his upside. Seriously, Brown has the best chance of becoming a star outside of the top two prospects, but it is going to take a little time for him to find himself on the offensive end. He has the tools for the defensive end, which is huge, now he just needs to focus on finding a consistent jumper. If he can find that consistent jumper, Jaylen Brown might be on his way towards becoming the next NBA star.
Click to expand...

This made me feel good.

Servbot24 said:
I know I would, what's the point of retiring anyways? So you can go be an assistant college coach and wish you were on the floor?
Click to expand...

I've always said that if I were a professional athlete I would play for as long as anyone would pay me even the minimum assuming I wouldn't be risking permanent physical damage. Retiring on top is overrated.
 
J

Jarate

Banned
I still would've taken Murray, but honestly, 3-8 were a crapshoot of 1-2 skill players who can probably be starters. I doubt this is what the Celtics or Celtics fans vision with the 3rd overall pick, but hey, sometimes there are just some bad NBA draft classes, and sometimes you're unlucky.

My big concern is that Ainge hasnt been the best drafter on earth, and this can be very problematic for a team with as many draft picks as the celtics have. I really like their strategy (btw their trade to get the 2019 Grizzlies pick was genius) but Ainge really needs to hope Brown pans out in a very positive way.
 
L

LyleLanley

Banned
Jarate said:
I still would've taken Murray, but honestly, 3-8 were a crapshoot of 1-2 skill players who can probably be starters. I doubt this is what the Celtics or Celtics fans vision with the 3rd overall pick, but hey, sometimes there are just some bad NBA draft classes, and sometimes you're unlucky.

My big concern is that Ainge hasnt been the best drafter on earth, and this can be very problematic for a team with as many draft picks as the celtics have. I really like their strategy (btw their trade to get the 2019 Grizzlies pick was genius) but Ainge really needs to hope Brown pans out in a very positive way.
Click to expand...

Ainge has his misses but he's a pretty solid drafter overall I'd say.
 
S

spyder_ur

Member
Jarate said:
I still would've taken Murray, but honestly, 3-8 were a crapshoot of 1-2 skill players who can probably be starters. I doubt this is what the Celtics or Celtics fans vision with the 3rd overall pick, but hey, sometimes there are just some bad NBA draft classes, and sometimes you're unlucky.

My big concern is that Ainge hasnt been the best drafter on earth, and this can be very problematic for a team with as many draft picks as the celtics have. I really like their strategy (btw their trade to get the 2019 Grizzlies pick was genius) but Ainge really needs to hope Brown pans out in a very positive way.
Click to expand...

I really don't get the criticism of Ainge as a drafter, personally. Brown was the first top 5 pick he's ever made. He's made a lot of great picks out of the lottery which is where he has drafted, consistently getting starter quality players far more often than other GMS. Sure he's missed a couple players and hasn't hit a grand slam on any particular pick (other than maybe Rondo) but 2/3 of the league missed those very same guys.

The fact that he's made few lottery picks is a testament to the fact that the team has been pretty good under his tenure.

If the Celts walk away from this era of Brooklyn picks with little to show for it, I'll change my tune.
 
C

Crimson_Echidna

Banned
If Whiteside decides to walk, I really hope the Heat ends up pursuing Horford. I feel like between KD, Whiteside, and even Dwight, Horford has been overshadowed this off season. He apparently does not want to play as a Center anymore, which could work for us. He could be our PF and Bosh can be moved back to Center.
 
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