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NBA OFFSEASON TALK- Where our favorite teams go shopping for tanks

J2 Cool

Member
Goddamn I miss a peak Thunder squad. Just imagine how fun a West finals would have been Thunder of previous years vs Warriors. The balance, depth, experience of a Spurs squad, the firepower athleticism of a Thunder team.. West had a kind of weaker year imo. Rockets are not that good and they made it that far? fucking Clippers. Hope West has a comeback next year and we create some fun match ups for this Warriors squad.

Got a lot of expectations for the Finals now.
 

DeathoftheEndless

Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
I don't like the Bulls getting rid of Thibodeau, but maybe Hoiberg will help their offense (which is this roster's strength).
 

zychi

Banned
Wade is probably just posturing to get paid. Trading Haywood for Wade is an absolutely hilarious idea, though.
Wade can opt out. So can Lebron. They purposely did it that way to get more money. I will laugh my ass off if Lebron wins the title in Cle, than leaves again. I said he would do it when he signed in Cle, but didn't think they'd make it to the Finals this year, which changed everything. Cle might be able to pay 3 max contracts after next season. That's crazy.

I don't like the Bulls getting rid of Thibodeau, but maybe Hoiberg will help their offense (which is this roster's strength).

He won't. He's a Gar Yes man if they hire him. The problem wasn't the coaching, its management. Same issue with the Bears.
 
Just wanted to throw this quote out there:
They canceled the wedding about six weeks out, and Thibodeau’s mother made him return what gifts the couple had received. Reasons for the engagement’s end varied, but John Galaris, Thibodeau’s boss and the athletic director at Salem State, said Thibodeau told him, “There’s no room in my life for a woman if I’m going to be a basketball coach.”
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/blame-games-the-end-for-thibs-and-the-bulls/?ex_cid=GrantlandFB

It's a pretty good article.
 
So apparently this is the new Atlanta Hawks logo:

hawks-new-logo.jpg


Soooo bad.

This looks like the ass end of a Hawk. Fitting.
 
Wade might leave Heat? I mean clearly they are apart when trying to get a contract negotiated. Dragic ain't going to take a paycut, so this is truly interesting off-season for them.

in b4 Dwade to Cavs

He was offered 16m per for 3 years. I think he wants 20 per and they are apart there. Pretty much there are a few teams that could afford him at that rate but they'd never pay him that.

Cavs can't afford Wade, they could do a sign and trade but Pat isn't going for that and they can't pay him even the 16 per right now so thats not happening.
 

zychi

Banned
He was offered 16m per for 3 years. I think he wants 20 per and they are apart there. Pretty much there are a few teams that could afford him at that rate but they'd never pay him that.

Cavs can't afford Wade, they could do a sign and trade but Pat isn't going for that and they can't pay him even the 16 per right now so thats not happening.

he could sign for a year to play with bron, and they can both get maxes the in 2016-2017 season.
 
As the comment says, why risk injury? He's going 1 or 2. Minny probably told he or Oky who's going 1 already. The interview is the key thing. He's not going to drop below #2, he has nothing to prove and isn't trying to jump up in the draft like everyone underneath these two guys.

Hmmm, that's a good point. Still, the first thing that came to mind is that the teams may see this as a slight in their work ethic, and when you are as big a prospect as him, it can go both ways, IMO.
 
he could sign for a year to play with bron, and they can both get maxes the in 2016-2017 season.

Never happen, If they give Wade the max then they lose say Thompson or Love. The Cavs just like everybody else can't just sign everyone they want to whatever they want. He would also lose his Bird rights which would be worth a heck of a lot of money. And, why? His complaint is about money that he lost from last year, not the organization. So your solution is to give up even more money (because he wouldn't get 16 MM for even one year in CLE) just to hang out with his pal and prove what? That he's bad at math?
 
Never happen, If they give Wade the max then they lose say Thompson or Love. The Cavs just like everybody else can't just sign everyone they want to whatever they want. He would also lose his Bird rights which would be worth a heck of a lot of money. And, why? His complaint is about money that he lost from last year, not the organization. So your solution is to give up even more money (because he wouldn't get 16 MM for even one year in CLE) just to hang out with his pal and prove what? That he's bad at math?

Depending on how badly he wants to go to Cleveland and how badly the Cavs want him they could potentially work out a sign and trade for Brendan Haywoods partially guaranteed contract thereby keeping Thompson and Love while still giving Wade a fairly large contract.
 
Depending on how badly he wants to go to Cleveland and how badly the Cavs want him they could potentially work out a sign and trade for Brendan Haywoods partially guaranteed contract thereby keeping Thompson and Love while still giving Wade a fairly large contract.

I doubt Wade wants to go play/live in Cleveland, that place is such a dump, especially compared to Miami. I just don't see him leaving, I think he wants to maintain a good relationship with the Heat, so that he can have a front office job after he retires, just like Zo.

Plus, depending on what happens during free agency, the Heat will most likely be in position to contend next season.
 
Depending on how badly he wants to go to Cleveland and how badly the Cavs want him they could potentially work out a sign and trade for Brendan Haywoods partially guaranteed contract thereby keeping Thompson and Love while still giving Wade a fairly large contract.

And the Heat agree to this, why? Dont forget that once you're 4 million over the cap that you can't receive sign and trade players....
 
And the Heat agree to this, why? Dont forget that once you're 4 million over the cap that you can't receive sign and trade players....

I'm just saying it would be possible if they made the trade before they re-signed all of their guys. Presumably they'd have to send some draft picks and/or Shumpert to Miami as well.
 
I'm just saying it would be possible if they made the trade before they re-signed all of their guys. Presumably they'd have to send some draft picks and/or Shumpert to Miami as well.

Not really, The cap is projected to be 90 MM next season. CLE salaries if they keep everyone and without Heywood are at 89 MM right now!

Love, LBJ and Kyrie are entitled to 53 MM if LBJ and Love don't opt-out
Thompson and Mozgov both have a qualifying offer clause that has to make their new salary 125% of this years salary if the team exercises their option, that leaves Shump and JR as RFA

If Love opts out, Love subjects himself to the rules for a seven-to-nine-year veteran. That means he could get 30 percent of the cap which would give him at minimum a 2 million dollar raise.

If LBJ opts-out he would resign at the max under the new cap which is around 25 MM on the low end so we're at 59 million or so in just those 3 players, not too terrible but........


Kenneth Faried just signed a deal this year for 4 years and 50 MM and Thompsons stats just about equal his and he turned down 4 years 52 MM in October. If the Cavs had just kept Wiggin they would have had another wing defender and about 11 MM more in cap space as opposed to what they replaced him with. LBJ's always injured buddy Varejao is locked in at 3/30 MM

So we have roughly LBJ/Love/Kyrie at 59 MM + Varejao and Thompson at 20 MM so the starting 5 is at 79 MM. Add Mozgov with the team option at his new salary of 5.4. Thats 84.5 of a projected 90 MM salary cap without Shump and JR.

How again does Wade sign with the Cavs?

This analysis doesn't include Luxury tax penalties and what not....
 

Bowser

Member
Pelton gave the Clips a D and the Hornets a B- for the trade

huzzah

He makes a great point about those who said the Hornets should just stretch Lance and spread his $9m cost over 3 years:

At the same time, that's not really what Charlotte is paying here. Let's say the Hornets were to waive and stretch Stephenson's salary hit over three seasons, as cap specialist Mark Deeks suggests on Twitter. They'd pay $9 million over the next three seasons, meaning Hawes' marginal cost is really $8.4 million over that span and perhaps $9.4 if Charlotte elects to waive Barnes, whose 2015-16 salary is guaranteed for just $1 million. That's a reasonable price for Hawes, given the likelihood he plays better going forward than he did in 2014-15.
 
We offered to match the Heat's contract offer, but two things: he was miffed we didn't give him an offer first, and at the point he thought "fuck it, I'll go play for a ring with LeBron"

whoops.

Even without Lebron, Miami is in a much, much better position to compete for a championship than Charlotte. The Hornets are a hot mess.

Would you rather play for a franchise with championship pedigree or play for a franchise that makes the lottery more than the playoffs?

Edit: Actually, if we don't sign Dragic and work things out with Wade, we won't be much better off than Charlotte.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Woj: Jimmy Butler to pursue shorter-term offers, Lakers chances increased

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/sourc...rsue-shorter-term-offer-sheets-212134060.html

For Chicago, there’s no challenge to retaining Butler. As a restricted free agent, the Bulls have matching rights on any offer sheet. Nevertheless, Chicago could be faced with Butler’s agents at Relativity Media, Happy Walters and Steve McCaskill, loading up a short-term offer sheet that includes a trade kicker and the potential loss of Butler to unrestricted free agency in 2017.

As Butler spends time in Los Angeles this summer, a stretch that’s included an overseas “Entourage” promotional jaunt with producer Mark Wahlberg, Butler’s intrigue with signing a potential Los Angeles Lakers offer sheet has increased, league sources told Yahoo Sports.

Butler has preliminary plans to pursue meetings with several teams once free agency starts in July, sources said. Several teams pursuing Butler told Yahoo Sports that they’re under the impression a short-term, max money offer sheet is the wisest way to approach Butler this summer.

Unless Bulls officials bring Butler a shorter-term deal that’s more favorable to his long-term earning power, they’ll likely be waiting to match an offer sheet, league sources said.

Butler could sign a three-year offer sheet that guarantees him $50 million, but allows for a player option on the third year that could allow him to move into unrestricted free agency and re-sign for a five-year, maximum deal worth as much as $190 million. It is understandable why Chicago wants Butler locked into a five-year, $90 million max extension under the current salary structure, but that appears to be a deal Butler plans to pass on.

Chicago has to sell Butler on a post-Tom Thibodeau era under Fred Hoiberg to get him fully comfortable with the franchise’s direction. What’s more, there’s an increasing belief surrounding Butler and point guard Derrick Rose that they need to come to a greater understanding about how to best co-exist on the floor.
 

Jarate

Banned
Embiid apparently had a "setback" with his foot, although people are saying its just not healing as fast as it was supposed too.

If Embiid becomes Oden 2.0 im gonna be a sad sad dude
 

Bowser

Member
Woj: Jimmy Butler to pursue shorter-term offers, Lakers chances increased

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/sourc...rsue-shorter-term-offer-sheets-212134060.html

Butler can't sign a player option 3-year deal if the Bulls offer the full max:

Mark Deeks @MarkDeeksNBA
If the Bulls offer Butler a Max QO - five years, full max salary, no bonuses, no options - he can only sign for 3 years (no opts) elsewhere.

Mark Deeks @MarkDeeksNBA
So basically, if Butler wants to sign a two year deal with a third year option, they have the ability to deny prevent him from doing that.

Mark Deeks @MarkDeeksNBA
I have never known the little known Maximum Qualifying Offer clause thing be used before. But this is a unique one.
 

Jarate

Banned
What moves do you guys think could realistically happen to make the East more competitive next year?
Durant moving to the East

Top tier player goes to the hawks

Right now the only two title contenders in the East are Chicago and Cleveland. If the hawks get a top tier player then theyll be a title contender and any team with Durant on it has a chance
 

spyder_ur

Member
What moves do you guys think could realistically happen to make the East more competitive next year?

I'm of the opinion that the perception of the gulf between the east and west was a bit overblown last year, though I don't deny the West was overall stronger and deeper. I think the playoffs back up my angle a bit, but all the injuries made it hard to judge for sure.

As to your question, I think it will happen naturally, but maybe not next year. I'm not seeing that team that will make the leap and really challenge Cleveland (assuming something weird doesn't happen there). It would take a big move to the right team - something like Gasol, Aldridge, Kawhi going to an eastern team - to really swing a fringe team. I think those guys moving is unlikely.

The Raptors have kind of peaked, IMO. The Bulls will come back mostly the same, but I think losing Thibs (top 5 coach IMO) will hurt them more than most expect. Wizards are intriguing if Wall or Beal make the leap to a top 10 player. Bucks need to secure a franchise player - if it's Parker that's an intriguing, versatile roster. Celts would need a huge move in the form of moving up in the draft or landing one of the aforementioned guys (and/or a trade) to be in the conversation next year, though I feel they might have the brightest future. Magic are interesting but they crafted a whole team of non-shooters in an era where shooting is more crucial than ever.

It might be slightly more competitive in terms of playoff series with teams like the Pacers and Heat getting healthy, but nothing to really change the narrative.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
ESPN article on how GS's strategy to try and reduce injuries in the season worked out for them:

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2015/story/_/id/13098001/golden-state-warriors-show-rest-best

The Golden State Warriors were the last ones standing. As bodies broke down all around the NBA this season, it was the Warriors who remained intact.

This wasn't supposed to happen. The Warriors employ so many players who got hit with the "injury prone" label at some point in their careers, whether it was Stephen Curry, Shaun Livingston, Andrew Bogut, Leandro Barbosa or Festus Ezeli.

But in the regular season, the Warriors finished with the fewest minutes lost due to injury in the NBA. And in the postseason, they finished as champions.

Those two facts are not unrelated; the first was a catalyst to an end.

This wasn't all luck. This was all part of the plan: to rest, to recover, to outlast.

Myers stood in the lottery room when another GM of a lottery team put his arm around him.

"Look around, what do you see?" the GM asked like an old sage.

Myers tried to whip back a witty answer, but he had nothing.

"I don't know," Myers said.

"Injuries," the general manager said. "All these teams had injuries."

After the confetti fell on Tuesday night, this was the moment that stuck out to a champagne-soaked Myers. Just three years after taking over general-manager duties for Larry Riley, Myers assembled the healthiest team in the league. According to injury data maintained by ESPN Insider's Kevin Pelton, the Warriors lost only 1,252 minutes due to injury this season, the lowest total in the NBA.

Myers credits the training staff led by Johan Wong and director of athletic performance Keke Lyles and the coaching staff led by Steve Kerr, who rested Curry for 20 fourth quarters when he could have played him more to boost his numbers. In turn, the coaches and trainers credit Myers and ownership for building the roster with the right bodies.

"Well, there's luck," Myers said. "We've had bad luck, too. Two years ago, David [Lee] was out against the Spurs and the Nuggets. Last year, we had no center against the Clippers. So you're in it and you're going to have years when you suffer injuries. And you're going to have years where you stay healthy."

This is Myers trying to deflect credit. But it's no coincidence that the Warriors were the healthiest team.

Golden State holds a competitive advantage. Its secret? The Warriors are based in the Bay Area, the same place where Silicon Valley calls home.


Technology and data analysis are pillars of the Warriors' front office and they make it a point to immerse the numbers and hoops together. For example: the team's stats guy, Sammy Gelfand, rebounds for the players every day rather than getting holed up in a remote office like other teams' analytical gurus.

They're as nerdy as it gets. As clients of wearable technology provider Catapult Sports, the Warriors monitor their players' workloads in practice with GPS monitors and analyze the data with acute attention to maximizing performance while minimizing injury risk.

The latest project: With the training staff, Gelfand and the team's data programmers, the Warriors are engineering a "readiness" rating for each player built on a 0-to-100 scale where 100 is prime shape and 0 is completely burnt out.


The idea is to give Kerr a handy all-in-one metric that aggregates various health indicators, including a daily five-question survey given to the players to help assess their soreness. Simple questions like, "How do you feel?" and "What's your mood?" and "How'd you sleep?" Each question has multiple phrases that the players choose from. Each answer corresponds to a number on a five-point scale. The lower the number, the lower the stress levels.

"It's research," Lyles says of the survey. "The wording in the answers are specific so it gives guys a good guide. Each guy is very individual. I may ask you the same questions. We want a low score. The best score you can have is a five. So let's say your average is an 11, that's your norm after months of doing it. It's 5 to 25. One point for each question.

"You come in, now you have two days that are 18 and 19. Alright, now that's a trigger. He's normally an 11, let's check in. If it's sleep, we'll look at the questions that are bad. We'll look at the travel."

The Warriors noticed that player stress was linked to lack of sleep. So they rescheduled their flights to the day after, not the night of games, so they could sleep in and get a full night's rest.

With the subjective side taken care of, the team then tackles the objective portion. They look at SportVU player-tracking data (for game workloads), Catapult data (for practice workloads) and OmegaWave heart variability data to test neurological stress. With those four inputs, the Warriors have a dashboard to whether a player should give it a go and for how long.

And the players bought in early.


"Really, if you're fatigued or sore, no one wants to feel like crap," Lyles said. "They want to feel better just as much as we want them to feel better. It's not like a head game."

The dashboard was screaming in early March. The indicators told Kerr that the core players were exhausted and red-lining to dangerous levels. So he decided to rest Curry, Thompson, Iguodala and Bogut against the Denver Nuggets on March 17.

Kerr understood fans' complaints that they wanted to see Curry and company in action.

"But I can't base my team's welfare on that," Kerr told reporters after the game in March.

The Warriors hope to aggregate all the fancy data and have the readiness rating completed for the start of next training camp. They continue to tinker with the algorithm to help predict injuries.

"I can't guarantee that'll make them better," Lyles says. "But I will say this: better conditioned guys get injured less, guys who get injured less tend to play more, guys who play more tend to make more money and have longer careers."

Young thinks the NBA is a tougher riddle to solve because there are only five players on the court. Every star means that much more. But preserving their health becomes even more paramount.

"It's going to be very difficult to change the fatigue culture in the NBA," Young said. "It's a lot easier to change in other sports where you have more than five guys on the field or the court at any one time. What you're seeing is that a Jordan or a LeBron they can go and be the top-four in the league just by themselves even surrounded by total duds."

Young is happy to see Adam Silver making it a priority to cut down on back-to-backs and four-in-fives. Rather than resting James in Finals games, Young hopes the league preempts that conversation.

"I think it's more realistic that the league smartens up and shortens up the season or looking at the scheduling to make it a little more favorable in terms of travel," he said.

In the end, though, the Warriors' MVP wasn't Curry or Iguodala. It was the organizational commitment to health -- both of body and mind.

When Cavs fans cheered on their team, the injuries were the first words uttered like a caveat. Then they spoke of James. Because of player health, the Cavs had the roster depth of a puddle. In the 23 minutes that James didn't play in this series, J.R. Smith, Matthew Dellavedova, James Jones and Iman Shumpert combined for 0-for-21 shooting.

The depth of the Warriors was the reason they outlasted the rest of their peers. When everyone else's stars suffered injuries this season, the Warriors were the last ones standing as a full squad.

As the NBA saying goes, the best ability is availability.

"You have to capitalize on health," Myers said. "Because in this league, you just don't know."

I suspect other teams will follow suit next season.
 
Wade spoke yesterday and mentioned the heat in past tense.

cmon brah, no one is going to pay you what we're going to pay you and if they even come close to doing so you're gonna be on a losing team. And the cavs aint got a starting position for you, cmon brrrrrrooooooooooooo
 
I honestly dont care what Wade wants to do. It's his career let him do what he wants. I'm prepared for the dark ages if it means in the future we are good as a franchise


But good god if he goes to Cleveland I'm gonna lose my shit
 
I honestly dont care what Wade wants to do. It's his career let him do what he wants. I'm prepared for the dark ages if it means in the future we are good as a franchise


But good god if he goes to Cleveland I'm gonna lose my shit

If healthy, a starting lineup of Wade/Bosh/Whiteside/Dragic/Deng is a damn fine starting 5, especially in the East.

But yeah, if Riley makes Wade a reasonable offer and he decides to pass on it then I can't fault either party. Riley has to be able to negotiate in 2016 and Wade is entitled to do what he wants with his career. I'd rather remain competitive than to give Wade one of those crippling Kobe contracts that makes the Heat garbage for a few seasons
 
In addition to Gerald Henderson staying in Charlotte, @EricPincus reports Danny Granger has opted in with Suns to stay in PHX next season.

Read that Danny Granger was talking to Grant Hill on how the PHX training staff helped prolong his career.
 
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