-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Need for Speed Most Wanted |OT| Return to Paradise
- Thread starter crispyben
- Start date
SolidSnakex
Member
There's nothing wrong with that. But as a racing fan you really shouldn't expect it. AI is progressed very little over the years in racing games. That's what leads to rubber banding. It's an easy solution to a problem that no one has been able to crack (quality AI in a racing game). No one will deny that it's a shitty reason for having rubber banding. But it is the lesser evil in this case. That's why some of us just accept it. It'll just remain part of the genre until someone finally figures out how to create the AI that all of us want for the genre. Constantly competitive but always fair.
With that said, it can be handled well. I can't remember finding myself annoyed with Hot Pursuit's rubber banding. It was certainly there, but you could still easily win if you knew the layout to a race. So they do reward you for knowing where to go and for not crashing too much. It wasn't like some racing games where you'd constantly be swapping first and second place because the AI car would constantly jump ahead of you.
BruiserBear
Banned
See my previous post on this. I hated the AI in the first two Motorstorm games with a passion, and it literally ruined those games for me. Never finished either of them. Those were textbook examples of rubberbanding handled poorly.
I've finished every single racer Criterion has made, and that's because they do rubberbanding about as well as it can be done.
I don't know exactly, I just know that it always feels fair. It ramps up very evenly, and as you get better the challenge goes up with your skills.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
"Good AI" is not well defined. How good should good AI be? Should they run a perfect race every time? How often should they make mistakes? If there's s a wide skill level gap between the player and the AI then the race just won't be exciting.
I do think that the last stretch should be a rubberband free zone, because if you're ahead at that point you earned it.
Waldo Lydecker
Member
Saying that rubberbanding is handed intelligently is saying something like 'Team Nora in Final Fantasy XIII is übercool' or 'a Republican president is okay because Romney is intelligent'.
tiny raptor
Member
Constantly competitive racing is a part of rubber-banding, and that's why developers implement it.
It's stupid. I don't care if I win by 30 seconds. If I've earned it, that's how it should be.
That's also why there are difficulty levels. If you're good enough to race on Hard, good for you. If you want an easier time you can select a lower difficulty level.
but how do you handle crashing? if you've crashed the other cars, which isn't hard since it's part of these types of games, you've effectively disabled them for the entire race. if you've been crashed, there's no way you're going to catch up.
Waldo Lydecker
Member
Well said good Sir.
That is exactly the reason that, all those times I followed the hype and bought an arcade racer, after two weeks I stopped playing and got back to Gran Turismo games and old gems like Grand Prix 2, Indycar Racing 2 and Grand Prix Legends.
From all those arcade racers I could only tolerate and enjoy Road Rash 2 (Genesis), Lotus Turbo Challenge (Genesis), NFS1 (PC), Hyper Rally (MSX) and Outrun (PS3).
PrematureQuiche
Member
Yay, I also got my GMG key in Europe which means I can use a VPN to play it on Tuesday 
tiny raptor
Member
Then you lose, depending on the difficulty selected.
If it's on hard, one crash may ruin your chance at victory. On easy, since the other racers aren't that great to begin with, you may have a shot to catch up.
The rubber-banding in Criterion's games is indeed smart. I would constantly win by at least 10 seconds in BO because I took shortcuts where as the AI would take the established route. Which is how it should be. If I stay "on course" It would be neck and neck. If I strayed for the shortest possible drive, I won easily because I outplayed the AI. It seems that some people in here think of rubber banding being the same in all racers (Motorstorm) when Criterion has proven with their several past games that they flat out know what they're doing. Criterion is one of the best developers this generation for a reason.
because I took shortcuts where as the AI would take the established route. Which is how it should be. If I stay "on course" It would be neck and neck. If I strayed for the shortest possible drive, I won easily because I outplayed the AI. It seems that some people in here think of rubber banding being the same in all racers (Motorstorm) when Criterion has proven with their several past games that they flat out know what they're doing. Criterion is one of the best developers this generation for a reason.
Even if I may not buy this game on Day 1.
Then go play some sim racers, there are plenty of those. It's accepted knowledge that arcade racers are a different genre, and they all have rubber-band AI to some extent.
Don't get me wrong, I like sims too. Forza 4 is my favorite racing game to date. But I sure don't go into a full arcade racer without expecting rubber-banding, so I don't know what you're thinking.
BruiserBear
Banned
Stop asking logical questions.
I'm just glad Criterion is developing this game, and not you, because I know they're gonna make it fun.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
The core problem is that a battle racer is at its best when you're battling other cars. You can't do that if you have a large distance gain or deficit the whole race. The AI cars might as well not even be there in that case.
SolidSnakex
Member
Constantly competitive racing is the nature of real racing. It's rare that you'll see large blowouts like you see in some racing games. That's what some of us want, but right now rubber band AI is the only thing that can get close to that.
BruiserBear
Banned
This live IGN stream sucks because the IGN editor with the controller in his hand likes playing in first person view.
Who plays a game like this in first person? :/
Who plays a game like this in first person? :/
Amazon.com just made the keys available for preloading, looks like the PC version is a bit bigger than the console versions
not so much bigger that you'd expect 1080p videos or super high res textures though..
BruiserBear
Banned
This IGN stream is so painful. So far here are some of the inaccurate statements made by the 3 guys, and not one of them challenged these statements upon hearing them.
"The damage is not just appearance based. My car was going slower when it was seriously damaged".
"I don't think the Burnout games prior to Paradise had a third person view. Maybe I just don't remember, but I don't think they did".
"I'm disappointed they shifted away from takedowns". *said as takedowns are occurring on screen*
I doubt it. I'd be more inclined to believe other devs just aren't as efficient, and especially when it comes to the PC version.
"The damage is not just appearance based. My car was going slower when it was seriously damaged".
"I don't think the Burnout games prior to Paradise had a third person view. Maybe I just don't remember, but I don't think they did".
"I'm disappointed they shifted away from takedowns". *said as takedowns are occurring on screen*
I doubt it. I'd be more inclined to believe other devs just aren't as efficient, and especially when it comes to the PC version.
tiny raptor
Member
lol
True, but I want to earn my victory and not have it handed to me. And that goes for real life too.
Waldo Lydecker
Member
I like your opinions on racing games a lot. What do you consider the best racing games?
helvetica bold
Banned
How did you get it early? I looked to some small shops in NY but no dice.Anyway post some impressions when you have the time.
BruiserBear
Banned
How did you get it early? Is someone selling it early?
Leon Belmont
Member
Preloading right naw!
BruiserBear
Banned
A helpful Walmart slacker
Wish I knew a Walmart Slacker. :/
The guy opened the box while I was looking for Skylanders for my daughter. He cut through the 'do not sell before' sticker but apparently didn't bother to read it. I asked for a copy and he rang it through with no problem.
Can't wait for your impressions.
BruiserBear
Banned
If anyone knows of locations in Chicago selling the game early, please let me know.
Always-honest
Banned
Well, let us know
First impression wasn't really positive. The first two or three cars I drove were really heavy feeling for turning, and pivoting back and forth with the stick felt laggy. It wasn't until I got into the Jaguar XKR that it felt responsive to the wheel. Then I found the Atom 500 V8 and MAN is that thing fast. Still felt like it locks into straight-line driving more than past Need for Speed games and I didn't find drifting as easy or fun as in Hot Pursuit 2, which I've been playing a bunch of lately.
Smashed a couple of billboards while driving around. Some challenging jumps there I think, and it's funny how they replace the billboard with a wanted image that shows your Gamertag pic. Tons of traffic on the roads, which is both positive or negative depending on what you're looking for. Tough to really get cruising when there's vehicles constantly coming at you, but maybe I should drive in the proper lanes for a change.
The sense of speed from the behind the car view is okay, but not great. The bumper cam is really smooth though and good sense of speed. I'll put up a couple pics I took before switching out my recording setup to see if the lag was because of the HDMI switch - as I figured though, it wasn't.
There's a really annoying stutter that crops up in the menu, but only in the Settings menu. As soon as you go to that tab, the framerate drops and the music stutters.
The billboards you jump through are all EA studios, at least that I've seen so far.
Racing towards the sun is annoying. Come out of a tunnel that's aimed towards the sun and you can't see a damn thing.
Album - those were taken with the Hauppauge HD PVR 2 that I just got to try out. I'll switch back to the Intensity later to see if it gets higher quality shots.
Smashed a couple of billboards while driving around. Some challenging jumps there I think, and it's funny how they replace the billboard with a wanted image that shows your Gamertag pic. Tons of traffic on the roads, which is both positive or negative depending on what you're looking for. Tough to really get cruising when there's vehicles constantly coming at you, but maybe I should drive in the proper lanes for a change.
The sense of speed from the behind the car view is okay, but not great. The bumper cam is really smooth though and good sense of speed. I'll put up a couple pics I took before switching out my recording setup to see if the lag was because of the HDMI switch - as I figured though, it wasn't.
There's a really annoying stutter that crops up in the menu, but only in the Settings menu. As soon as you go to that tab, the framerate drops and the music stutters.
The billboards you jump through are all EA studios, at least that I've seen so far.
Racing towards the sun is annoying. Come out of a tunnel that's aimed towards the sun and you can't see a damn thing.
Album - those were taken with the Hauppauge HD PVR 2 that I just got to try out. I'll switch back to the Intensity later to see if it gets higher quality shots.
Always-honest
Banned
Thanx for your first impressions.
Any criterion devs on Gaf? Cause i have got to ask..: is there ANY chance of you guys giving the Wii-U version some extra AA??
Any criterion devs on Gaf? Cause i have got to ask..: is there ANY chance of you guys giving the Wii-U version some extra AA??
BruiserBear
Banned
Thanks Orca. Those audio stutters sound very similar to what I've experienced with Hot Pursuit on the 360.
Think I'm set on my PS3 purchase now.
Think I'm set on my PS3 purchase now.
helvetica bold
Banned
Glad to see criterion got HDR lighting on the 360-it was gimped on The Run. thanks for the Pics and keep the impressions coming.
I'm sure once you get the mods on the cars they will handle better.
I'm sure once you get the mods on the cars they will handle better.
MrTroubleMaker
Member
me too
DevelopmentArrested
Banned
I'm 2 hours in, Most Wanted does a good enough job combining BP and HP but doesn't quite stand up to either..
mercenar1e
Member
Hopefully it gets better as you play then.
Pretty wild. I can't understand how people in the comments can still want old NFS after seeing that. the game looks sick.