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[JustenP88]

This is toxic.Not based on his one comment he's not. Thats so absurd. His opinion isn't even that crazy. And everyone dogpiling him is part of the problem. Ask him why, or don't. Discuss it or don't. But you all dragged him about an opinion that could be pretty nuanced, and while you disagree with him, doesn't mean he's a piece of shit homophobe. Jesus

You can disagree with someone without judging their entire being based on a single post.

What freaking nuance are you looking for from the "gays can't create natural communities so we should put them aside in a 'gays-only' thread" guy?

How about someone who is a Muslim and middle eastern then. Milo is white and Jewish he's not the same as me.

Put in an application to be a moderator if you're concerned that we don't have enough posters that think "we should have a gay-only thread for gay people as a safe space."

 

[Flopfan]

You're trolling at this point dude.

Not really. Anyway he wasn't banned so I'm happy.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

You totally ignored I mentioned an argument that literally illustrates how one might hold that opinion in good faith. Also, an argument where neither side can convince the other isn't uncommon, people who don't think your arguments are compelling are not inherently bigoted for it. This is an opinion, it doesn't have a right or wrong answer. You can honestly make the case for all three protagonists.

This is again the point, the inability to deal with dissenting opinions is fairly blatant.

No one was banned for being in disagreement. Y'all can't grasp this. You want to desperately believe it. It was never true. Way to reinforce the idea that we're all toxic people trying to shut down discussions when y'all are super in favor of removing political and social topics.

Like, y'all aren't even trying to troll well at this point.

 

[metalslimer]

Not really. Anyway he wasn't banned so I'm happy.

What?

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Agreed. Also seeing he wasn't banned yet I think it's safe to assume he won't be.

He is though?

 

[Flopfan]

What?

Man he was banned then. Bummer.

 

[Ombra]

I can't wait for politics and social issues to return to this forum, the havoc these 4chan moonlighters would wreak is terrifying to imagine we have some cleaning to do. Don't give this place up without a fight , truly resist these misguided interlopers.

 

[silveralen]

No one was banned for being in disagreement. Y'all can't grasp this. You want to desperately believe it. It was never true. Way to reinforce the idea that we're all toxic people trying to shut down discussions when y'all are super in favor of removing political and social topics.

Like, y'all aren't even trying to troll well at this point.

So people weren't banned for arguing she was a Mary Sue? Because that's banning people with dissenting opinions. And you seemed to say people were banned for that a few posts ago. After which I made a point to try and illustrate exactly how that is a subjective opinion that can be discussed and that people may have different perspectives on.

Also, I've made it perfectly clear I think neogaf is a fairly toxic community. The fact people keep saying things that illustrate my point isn't me trying to catch people in a big gotcha moment, it's just that people are used to being toxic on here.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

So people weren't banned for arguing she was a Mary Sue? Because that's banning people with dissenting opinions. And you seemed to say people were banned for that a few posts ago. After which I made a point to try and illustrate exactly how that is a subjective opinion that can be discussed and that people may have different perspectives on.

Also, I've made it perfectly clear I think neogaf is a fairly toxic community. The fact people keep saying things that illustrate my point isn't me trying to catch people in a big gotcha moment, it's just that people are used to being toxic on here.

She wasn't a Mary Sue.

There's dissenting opinions and perpetuating a misogynistic idea that Rey was a mary sue.

Heck, I didn't like the movie and I wasn't banned. I WONDER WHY THAT IS. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

 

[Flopfan]

I can't wait for politics and social issues to return to this forum, the havoc these 4chan moonlighters would wreak is terrifying to imagine we have some cleaning to do. Don't give this place up without a fight , truly resist these misguided interlopers.

What fight? Man you Westerners are funny. You honestly think calling someone on the net a bigot and calling for their ban is fighting the good fight? Get real.

 

[Nrocinu777]

Underrated post.

That avatar. hmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Shabutaro]

What freaking nuance are you looking for from the "gays can't create natural communities so we should put them aside in a 'gays-only' thread" guy?

The nuance in that he didn't say that? He said that gays and lesbians don't form a natural community. So in such, they should be separated to create a better environment for both. Which, living in a place with a high lbgt population, is sort reflective of real life. Its not a crazy opinion to have. I don't know if I agree with it, but there may be merit to it. Just because gays and lesbians group up and separate in real life, is that the best way to handle an lgbt thread in a gaming forum? Do you think that there's enough gays and lesbians on gaf that removing the LGBT OT and creating a separate "L" and a "G" OT would be detrimental? I would have to ask him...but he's been banned now.

 

[silveralen]

She wasn't a Mary Sue.

There's dissenting opinions and perpetuating a misogynistic idea that Rey was a mary sue.

Heck, I didn't like the movie and I wasn't banned. I WONDER WHY THAT IS. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

That's not a factual thing, that's opinion based. You can literally argue all three of the main Star Wars protagonists qualify and make a decent case, and I have no idea how that'd qualify. It's not an inherently misogynistic opinion, nor is it an objectively wrong statement. It's amazing how hard it is for some people to handle basic statements like that.

 

[HStallion]

The nuance in that he didn't say that? He said that gays and lesbians don't form a natural community. So in such, they should be separated to create a better environment for both. Which, living in a place with a high lbgt population, is sort reflective of real life. Its not a crazy opinion to have. I don't know if I agree with it, but there may be merit to it. Just because gays and lesbians group up and separate in real life, is that the best way to handle an lgbt thread in a gaming forum? Do you think that there's enough gays and lesbians on gaf that removing the LGBT OT and creating a separate "L" and a "G" OT would be detrimental? I would have to ask him...but he's been banned now.

LGBTQ people aren't unicorns and treating them line they're some kind of alien other does nothing but make you look ignorant and makes the LGTBQ community feel even more put out for who they were born as. Why do we need to separate them at all should be the question you should really be asking yourself. Not too mention that community often comes together in a seemingly isolated fashion in some cases because of years of abuse from everyone else. They group together for safety and support, not because of some other creepy pseudo science or whatever you're talking about.

 

[Farsi]

The nuance in that he didn't say that? He said that gays and lesbians don't form a natural community. So in such, they should be separated to create a better environment for both. Which, living in a place with a high lbgt population, is sort reflective of real life. Its not a crazy opinion to have. I don't know if I agree with it, but there may be merit to it. Just because gays and lesbians group up and separate in real life, is that the best way to handle an lgbt thread in a gaming forum? Do you think that there's enough gays and lesbians on gaf that removing the LGBT OT and creating a separate "L" and a "G" OT would be detrimental? I would have to ask him...but he's been banned now.

I wonder how you would feel if Phil switched sexual orientation with skin color. Then maybe you could see how crazy that sounds.

 

[JustenP88]

The nuance in that he didn't say that? He said that gays and lesbians don't form a natural community. So in such, they should be separated to create a better environment for both. Which, living in a place with a high lbgt population, is sort reflective of real life. Its not a crazy opinion to have. I don't know if I agree with it, but there may be merit to it. Just because gays and lesbians group up and separate in real life, is that the best way to handle an lgbt thread in a gaming forum? Do you think that there's enough gays and lesbians on gaf that removing the LGBT OT and creating a separate "L" and a "G" OT would be detrimental? I would have to ask him...but he's been banned now.

Uhhhhh, what "problems" do you imagine he was aiming to fix with his suggestion that we should have "a gay-only" thread so they can have a "safe space?" What do you think motivates Phil's desire to see gay gamers segregated into their own threads?

I mean, you can track him down and get the answers you seek if you want, but you're extremely naive if you think the guy rambling about "PC hiveminds" wants gay people quarantined because he's worried about them or something.

 

[silveralen]

LGBTQ people aren't unicorns and treating them line they're some kind of alien other does nothing but make you look ignorant and makes the LGTBQ community feel even more put out for who they were born as. Why do we need to separate them at all should be the question you should really be asking yourself. Not too mention that community often comes together in a seemingly isolated fashion in some cases because of years of abuse from everyone else. They group together for safety and support, not because of some other creepy pseudo science or whatever you're talking about.

I'm just going to go ahead and say that many elements of the community do self segregate for various reasons. A lot of gay communities aren't super welcoming toward bisexuals or transgender people, for different reasons, and in turn many of both avoid the larger LGBTQ community. From personal experience, if your are bisexual or pansexual but in a heterosexual relationship... a lot of them don't want you there or involved period. I've seen many people resent gay men from being overly centered, which again can lead to division. Many lesbians feel more comfortable with women only spaces in general, often those are TERFs but I've known some who are inclusive towards trans women as well.

So again, the opinion he expressed isn't really controversial. The LGBTQ community is barely even a thing in a wider sense, more a grouping to pool political clout than anything else.

 

[Link]

What freaking nuance are you looking for from the "gays can't create natural communities so we should put them aside in a 'gays-only' thread" guy?



Put in an application to be a moderator if you're concerned that we don't have enough posters that think "we should have a gay-only thread for gay people as a safe space."

Still as relevant as ever

 

[Shabutaro]

LGBTQ people aren't unicorns and treating them line they're some kind of alien other does nothing but make you look ignorant and makes the LGTBQ community feel even more put out for who they were born as. Why do we need to separate them at all should be the question you should really be asking yourself. Not too mention that community often comes together in a seemingly isolated fashion in some cases because of years of abuse from everyone else. They group together for safety and support, not because of some other creepy pseudo science or whatever you're talking about.

Look I don't know if creating a "G" and "L" OT is a good idea. I don't think it is on gaf. But his comment has validity. Gays and Lesbians form very different social groups (at least in my community, in my age bracket). They frequent different areas, do different things, and have different unique struggles that they face in their experiences. Its not outlandish to say "having a gay only safe space" would be beneficial. That's what he was implying. Not throwing gays into a ghetto thread to rot. Sure gays and Lesbians come together when things are rough, but the idea that having a different thread for day to day conversation isn't bigoted. It may be wrong, it may even be laughably wrong for a gaf OT, but its not some evil opinion to have, and is worth discussing. Not calling him a shitty homophobe and then dancing on his grave.

I wonder how you would feel if Phil switched sexual orientation with skin color. Then maybe you could see how crazy that sounds.

I would say making a Brown-gaf OT, for all melanin rich gaffers would be much less useful to the individual communities than making a Black culture thread, Hispanic OT and Middle Eastern OT. And then I would want to discuss it if you disagreed.

 

[Lady Gaia]

The nuance in that he didn't say that? He said that gays and lesbians don't form a natural community.

Having been part of many such communities, I’d say the problem is starting with a faulty premise. Human beings build communities around shared interests, and while it’s certainly true that lesbians don’t date gay men it’s fundamentally bizarre to assert that they have no shared interests. What about the fact that societies tend to treat us with similar disdain? Our shared legal challenges? The rest of our lives that have nothing to do with sexuality, but where it’s helpful to know that you’re not likely to be shunned because of who you love?

You might as well observe that since straight men don’t date other straight men, they shouldn’t be allowed to interact because they clearly don’t form part of a natural community.

 

[Ombra]

What fight? Man you Westerners are funny. You honestly think calling someone on the net a bigot and calling for their ban is fighting the good fight? Get real.

What are you babbling about I meant fighting to make sure the same principles we operated on before don't fall by the way side and that we don't give people a pass because the moderation is not as swift. If you want to pretend to be a bi middle easterner have at it but you will get called on your bullshit without delay every single time.

 

[NotMeKawaii]

anyways Lady Gaga outsold y'alls faves and I deserve a BAN

 

[silveralen]

Having been part of many such communities, I’d say the problem is starting with a faulty premise. Human beings build communities around shared interests, and while it’s certainly true that lesbians don’t date gay men it’s fundamentally bizarre to assert that they have no shared interests. What about the fact that societies tend to treat us with similar disdain? Our shared legal challenges? The rest of our lives that have nothing to do with sexuality, but where it’s helpful to know that you’re not likely to be shunned because of who you love?

You might as well observe that since straight men don’t date other straight men, they shouldn’t be allowed to interact because they clearly don’t form part of a natural community.

Again, a lot of people don't feel they have that much in common. I don't want to run through every example again, but suffice it to say a large number of LGBTQ people may not feel comfortable in the wider community for various reasons, and many individual communities can be hostile towards some of the groups that would presumably be included. It's actually fairly rare to see a truly inclusive LGBTQ community in my experience.

 

[Shabutaro]

Uhhhhh, what "problems" do you imagine he was aiming to fix with his suggestion that we should have "a gay-only" thread so they can have a "safe space?" What do you think motivates Phil's desire to see gay gamers segregated into their own threads?

I mean, you can track him down and get the answers you seek if you want, but you're extremely naive if you think the guy rambling about "PC hiveminds" wants gay people quarantined because he's worried about them or something.

Isn't phil gay? And the PC hivemind he's talking about isn't the same one that gets hurled at us from the depths of 4chan. Its criticism from people on your side. Im a big fan of PC culture, its practical and polite, but this really intense policing that everyone is doing is too much. His opinion as I said in previous posts is worthy of discussing. And instead of stopping to think about what he said, and engaging, everyone blasted him. The message was clear: Get in line or we don't want your opinion here.
He didn't troll and say "I don't see why we need letters gaf, if anything its discriminatory to straights" or some shit. He offered an opinion on how to optimize the lgbt threads. He could very well be wrong. But I sure as hell don't think he's what you say he is.

 

[APF]

If LGBT folks need a safe space on GAF were they can talk about stuff w/o abuse and ridicule that's fine, but that's a lot different than whining that you're seeing LGBT content in non-LGBT-designated threads, and that was the original complaint. GTFO with that nonsense.

 

[Shabutaro]

Having been part of many such communities, I’d say the problem is starting with a faulty premise. Human beings build communities around shared interests, and while it’s certainly true that lesbians don’t date gay men it’s fundamentally bizarre to assert that they have no shared interests. What about the fact that societies tend to treat us with similar disdain? Our shared legal challenges? The rest of our lives that have nothing to do with sexuality, but where it’s helpful to know that you’re not likely to be shunned because of who you love?

You might as well observe that since straight men don’t date other straight men, they shouldn’t be allowed to interact because they clearly don’t form part of a natural community.

But there's no reason to think that they should automatically be grouped together just because they're sexual minorities either. Yes they feel the same disdain from society and the same legal challenges, but the day to day experience of being a gay man is different than being a lesbian woman. Gender plays a big role. No one thinks that women don't deserve their own safe space right? So why shouldn't gay women have one? Why shouldn't gay men?
That's the balance, and the conversation worth having. Does a combined thread satisfy my needs. As a gay man do I feel the right density of understanding and support from this thread about X issue? Or is it too interspersed with people who have no understanding of my gay experience?" Same for a lesbian. On one forum the answer may be separate them, on another it may be to combine them. He's justified in his opinion regardless of if you agree or not tho.

 

[ryseing]

If LGBT folks need a safe space on GAF were they can talk about stuff w/o abuse and ridicule that's fine, but that's a lot different than whining that you're seeing LGBT content in non-LGBT-designated threads, and that was the original complaint. GTFO with that nonsense.

So LGBT people can only speak up in "designated" threads? Do you realize how ridiculous you sound right now?

 

[Lady Gaia]

Again, a lot of people don't feel they have that much in common. I don't want to run through every example again, but suffice it to say a large number of LGBTQ people may not feel comfortable in the wider community for various reasons, and many individual communities can be hostile towards some of the groups that would presumably be included. It's actually fairly rare to see a truly inclusive LGBTQ community in my experience.

I think it’s fair to say the same of any subdivision of humanity you can identify. Social challenges are inevitable in a group setting, even among those who identify with a single letter in the alphabet soup. Support among those who share a specific challenge is valuable, but so is getting outside that narrow cross-section of humanity to understand and care about the world inhabited by others.

 

[Warablo]

Yeah, but the problem isnt respecting minorities/lgbt

You have to be blind or deaf to not acknowledge Neogaf has a clear problem when it comes to being an echo chamber, over-empowered mods, and what can only be described as a toxic environment for dissenting opinions. Even ones with good intentions. Homophobic and racist individuals should be banned outright, but neo gaf had an environment where I could have been banned for defending Evilore. (not that I am, just an example).

This, we shouldn't be so afraid of getting banned for trying to speak our minds. Unless its outright hate speech.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

So LGBT people can only speak up in "designated" threads? Do you realize how ridiculous you sound right now?

I think he was ridiculing that point, not making it?

Or maybee I'm reading wrong.

 

[Shabutaro]

Isn't phil gay? And the PC hivemind he's talking about isn't the same one that gets hurled at us from the depths of 4chan. Its criticism from people on your side. Im a big fan of PC culture, its practical and polite, but this really intense policing that everyone is doing is too much. His opinion as I said in previous posts is worthy of discussing. And instead of stopping to think about what he said, and engaging, everyone blasted him. The message was clear: Get in line or we don't want your opinion here.
He didn't troll and say "I don't see why we need letters gaf, if anything its discriminatory to straights" or some shit. He offered an opinion on how to optimize the lgbt threads. He could very well be wrong. But I sure as hell don't think he's what you say he is.

Lol shut this goofy bitch down

You have the right to shove that opinion up your asshole. Maybe the potential stimulation of your prostate will release some endorphins that make you less of a twat.

This to me is much worse than what phil said. You didn't even bother to see what he was talking about. This is not discourse. Its abusive, its trolling and it reflects poorly on the cause. You want an inclusive space,your heart is aligned with a good cause, but its just shitty behavior. Its more damaging to the community than phil's ~maybe~ wrong post.

 

[APF]

So LGBT people can only speak up in "designated" threads? Do you realize how ridiculous you sound right now?

It does sound ridiculous, which is why I was saying they can miss me with that bullshit.

 

[NHarmonic.]

So people here not even try to cover that they want their white, heterosexual, cis, male forum lol. So we should create other places for gay people and others for black people? So they don't get into your discussions?

Fuck off. The richness of gaf comes from all this people together, fuck the people wanting to seggregate.

 

[HStallion]

I'm just going to go ahead and say that many elements of the community do self segregate for various reasons. A lot of gay communities aren't super welcoming toward bisexuals or transgender people, for different reasons, and in turn many of both avoid the larger LGBTQ community. From personal experience, if your are bisexual or pansexual but in a heterosexual relationship... a lot of them don't want you there or involved period. I've seen many people resent gay men from being overly centered, which again can lead to division. Many lesbians feel more comfortable with women only spaces in general, often those are TERFs but I've known some who are inclusive towards trans women as well.

So again, the opinion he expressed isn't really controversial. The LGBTQ community is barely even a thing in a wider sense, more a grouping to pool political clout than anything else.

From personal experience I know tons of people all over the sexual spectrum who are incredible accepting of anyone else no matter who they find attractive or whatever kinks they may have. This is like picking out the worst kind of feminist and acting like the rest are all the same and again, just makes you look ignorant. The LGTBQ community isn't any different from any other minority community that bunches up under the pressures and threats of those around them, something the LGTBQ community is sadly all too familiar with for as long as they've been around.

Again why do we need to seperate them at all? Why do they need to be some special unique something that is other than yourself when they have all the same wishes, desires and hopes. They want someone to love. They want to be able to pay rent. They don't want to get sick and risk everything in an already risky system. And so on and so forth.

Look I don't know if creating a "G" and "L" OT is a good idea. I don't think it is on gaf. But his comment has validity. Gays and Lesbians form very different social groups (at least in my community, in my age bracket). They frequent different areas, do different things, and have different unique struggles that they face in their experiences. Its not outlandish to say "having a gay only safe space" would be beneficial. That's what he was implying. Not throwing gays into a ghetto thread to rot. Sure gays and Lesbians come together when things are rough, but the idea that having a different thread for day to day conversation isn't bigoted. It may be wrong, it may even be laughably wrong for a gaf OT, but its not some evil opinion to have, and is worth discussing. Not calling him a shitty homophobe and then dancing on his grave.

This whole forum was a gay/trans/etc. safe space. That was why it attracted so many of them here because they weren't up to the degradations of so many other forums and social media apps/sites where its often an unmoderated, or at least poorly and sparingly so, free for all. Gays and Lesbians and everyone else isn't all that different from you except on who they love. You're defining them by who they are born as and asking why we can't separate them out. Maybe we should make them wear rainbow arm bands and stick them in camps just to reinforce this idea because that's the logical end to the kind of conversation you're trying to start so "innocently".

 

[JustenP88]

Man, I spent a lot of time being mad in politics threads in OT on the wrong side of the echo chamber last year and I never caught a ban for it. I chiseled away at a fair amount of my remaining sanity and grew an urge to shit on liberals from the left, but never ran into any actual push back from mods, even when they were the ones I was arguing with. Can't really relate to anyone who falls anywhere other than "authoritarian right" on the political spectrum who thinks GAF is overbearing in its moderation to the point where it's a genuine issue for the community. Moderation seems to take a hardline stance against problematic takes on issues of social justice and that's a problem... Why?

We have actual examples of what gaming communities with lax moderation are like. For those among us who want that for GAF: wtf are you here for? Those places exist!

This to me is much worse than what phil said. You didn't even bother to see what he was talking about. This is not discourse. Its abusive, its trolling and it reflects poorly on the cause. You want an inclusive space,your heart is aligned with a good cause, but its just shitty behavior. Its more damaging to the community than phil's ~maybe~ wrong post.

I wouldn't begrudge the mods for banning me for being uncouth. That's their prerogative and I'm loose with it because there's not much point in caring at the moment. But I'm not gonna feel bad for reacting callously to a user who used several posts to whine about PC hiveminds (I'm comfortable reading between the lines on that shit) only to follow it up with "I just thought it'd be cool to separate the gays and lesbians." Based on what I've seen from the gaming community at-large, I've got no interest in the "discourse" people like that want to bring in out of the woodwork while this place is on fire.

If you're "tired of the BLM bullshit"

If you're "tired of the climate change bullshit"

If you're "tired of the virtue signalling"

If you're "tired of all the Trump shit"

There are communities for you already. Go to them.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Given how LGBT are basically still fighting for similar basic rights or just normal human treatment in all manners of ways worldwide, isn't it kind of obvious that their struggles of mostly similar nature end up congregating somewhere that makes it easy to access People, news and discussions on relevant topics?

Also, is this supposed to be the kind of discussion that could never happen on old GAF?

Man, I spent a lot of time being mad in politics threads in OT on the wrong side of the echo chamber last year and I never caught a ban for it. I chiseled away at a fair amount of my remaining sympathy and grew an urge to shit on liberals from the left, but never ran into any actual push back from mods, even when they were the ones I was arguing with. Can't really relate to anyone who falls anywhere other than "authoritarian right" on the political spectrum who thinks GAF is overbearing in its moderation to the point where it's a genuine issue for the community. Moderation seems to take a hardline stance against problematic takes on issues of social justice and that's a problem... Why?

We have actual examples of what gaming communities with lax moderation are like. For those among us who want that for GAF: wtf are you here for? Those places exist!

The narrative that you get insta banned simply for different ideas to the most vocal leanings of GAF is literally a lie.

People probably did get banned for questionable things sometimea, but it wasn't THE thing that happened constantly any time someone posted a dissenting opinion.

If that was the case my debating people in OT being one of my favourite things to do would have been impossible because people would get banned before I got to post why I disagree with them

People are conflating hardline moderation against bigotry with the community itself having an even harsher idea about what they felt about bigotry.

 

[KojiKnight]

Running wall of shame of the type of users who 'respect' minorities and women...

Gonna throw my 2 pennies in....


No more Trump threads.

No more LGBTQ rights threads.

No more threads about Colin Kaepernick.

No more PoliGAF(didn't participate, just read, but those were some knowledgeable dudes. Hate to lose that over some BS)

No more GamerGate threads.

No more Black man shot and killed by cops threads.

No more dirty cop threads(See Baltimore PD recent indictments of officers)

Basically OT will now be Sports, Movies, TV and Music.

Where do I sign?

Sounds perfect.

Mod this man plz

Perfect!!

Lets make Neogaf great again

This sounds amazing

Yeah, this would be nice. I play games to get away from this sort of thing.

please no threads about Palmer Luckey, JonTron or PewDiePie saying a bad word, too. Please.

Perfect.

Sounds amazing, TBH

Sounds great to me, I think the forum will be better off honestly. I just hope the new mods aren't as ban happy as the old mods, it always felt like you were one differing opinion away from a ban.

Sounds perfect to me



It's mostly true

Please add the endless climate change bullshit to the list

Otherwise these changes sound perfect, I don't come here for armchair analysis of the current affairs. I come here to be entertained and to learn about other things to entertain myself with. The movie and tv show threads were awesome.

You want to spew your political agendas go elsewhere please

This. Furreal.

Sounds like heaven to me.

This is exactly what I want. I'm ok with the LGBTQ threads though.

Sounds like an improvement to be honest. Most of that is incredibly toxic bottom of the barrel garbage.

Either way though, Neogaf will forever be fractured from this "incident."

Some have been banned, some not. But it's clear there is definitely an element here that do not want such conversations as talk of equality for LGBT.

 

[Shabutaro]

From personal experience I know tons of people all over the sexual spectrum who are incredible accepting of anyone else no matter who they find attractive or whatever kinks they may have. This is like picking out the worst kind of feminist and acting like the rest are all the same and again, just makes you look ignorant. The LGTBQ community isn't any different from any other minority community that bunches up under the pressures and threats of those around them, something the LGTBQ community is sadly all too familiar with for as long as they've been around.

Again why do we need to seperate them at all? Why do they need to be some special unique something that is other than yourself when they have all the same wishes, desires and hopes. They want someone to love. They want to be able to pay rent. They don't want to get sick and risk everything in an already risky system. And so on and so forth.

People are held together by much more than their struggles. If lgbt gaf feels like this is a safe space and that their struggles unite them, they should keep it together. If gay gaf started to feel like their grindr stories were falling on deaf ears or that the other letters don't care about gay culture, they should branch off. The LGBT community, while full of struggle is also home to their individual cultures and communities. Just because we struggle the same way (at times) doesn't mean its optimal for us to be glued together. Minorities do more than struggle all the time.

This whole forum was a gay/trans/etc. safe space. That was why it attracted so many of them here because they weren't up to the degradations of so many other forums and social media apps/sites where its often an unmoderated, or at least poorly and sparingly so, free for all. Gays and Lesbians and everyone else isn't all that different from you except on who they love. You're defining them by who they are born as and asking why we can't separate them out. Maybe we should make them wear rainbow arm bands and stick them in camps just to reinforce this idea because that's the logical end to the kind of conversation you're trying to start so "innocently".

Baby, gays aren't any different than me because I am a proud, out, unabashedly gay homosexual man. And this is the kinda post that bothers me. Its really well intentioned. I really appreciate having someone on my team, but what about my post leads you to believe that concentration camps are the natural end result of discussing if gays and lesbians should have their own sub forums. Did you read any of my other posts? Because I feel like there's a conversation to be had about DIFFERENT minorities having different OT's doesn't mean I think they should be separated out from the forum. I've acknowledged I don't think itd be ideal for neogaf, but if this was a LGBTQIA forum, i sure as fuck would hope that the G and the L (and all the other letters) had separate subforums. And thats the point. There's nothing inherent wrong with what phil said. He would just need to defend his point on why he thinks it would be better, and you would argue why its not.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Running wall of shame of the type of users who 'respect' minorities and women...


Some have been banned, some not. But it's clear there is definitely an element here that do not want such conversations as talk of equality for LGBT.

Its literally evidence that for a lot of People, the disgruntled "I just want to talk my mind" narrative is really a dog whistle for "oh god just shut the fuck up about your social issues" and "thank God indont have to see threads about your whiny sjw problems".

If they wanted a fair place to debate, they wouldn't be celebrating the complete death of the actual debate.

Its like black people celebrating because instead of the equal rights act, government decided to remove EVERYONEs rights.

If they were interested in a fairer place to debate, they'd be just as heartbroken as the rest of us, not tapdancing on its grave.

But you know.

 

[HStallion]

People are held together by much more than their struggles. If lgbt gaf feels like this is a safe space and that their struggles unite them, they should keep it together. If gay gaf started to feel like their grindr stories were falling on deaf ears or that the other letters don't care about gay culture, they should branch off. The LGBT community, while full of struggle is also home to their individual cultures and communities. Just because we struggle the same way (at times) doesn't mean its optimal for us to be glued together. Minorities do more than struggle all the time.

Baby, gays aren't any different than me because I am a proud, out, unabashedly gay homosexual man. And this is the kinda post that bothers me. Its really well intentioned. I really appreciate having someone on my team, but what about my post leads you to believe that concentration camps are the natural end result of discussing if gays and lesbians should have their own sub forums. Did you read any of my other posts? Because I feel like there's a conversation to be had about DIFFERENT minorities having different OT's doesn't mean I think they should be separated out from the forum. I've acknowledged I don't think itd be ideal for neogaf, but if this was a LGBTQIA forum, i sure as fuck would hope that the G and the L (and all the other letters) had separate subforums. And thats the point. There's nothing inherent wrong with what phil said. He would just need to defend his point on why he thinks it would be better, and you would argue why its not.

Talks about being more than their struggles and brings up Grindr. Uh huh...

 

[Shabutaro]

I wouldn't begrudge the mods for banning me for being uncouth. That's their prerogative and I'm loose with it because there's not much point in caring at the moment. But I'm not gonna feel bad for reacting callously to a user who used several posts to whine about PC hiveminds (I'm comfortable reading between the lines on that shit) only to follow it up with "I just thought it'd be cool to separate the gays and lesbians." Based on what I've seen from the gaming community at-large, I've got no interest in the "discourse" people like that want to bring in out of the woodwork while this place is on fire.

If you're "tired of the BLM bullshit"

If you're "tired of the climate change bullshit"

If you're "tired of the virtue signalling"

If you're "tired of all the Trump shit"

There are communities for you already. Go to them.

Its the lack of patience that makes it hard to navigate the forum. You don't get to lose patience and start attacking everyone and expect there to be a functional community and discourse. The poster you lashed out at wasn't inherently wrong for thinking that, and I've posted about why I don't think so. Not everyone is a bigot in disguise, and we're bleeding quality posters enough as is. You're throwing out the baby with the bathwater here. Just because your gut doesn't agree with what someone said doesn't mean they're trolls. This isn't an anita thread, this isn't the heart of gamergate, we're not on a MRA reddit. We're mostly good people. If someone smells like a troll, do your goddamn due diligence and investigate and probe and see if they are. But assuming the worst is whats been making the OT so toxic for people. Normal, progressive, interesting people didn't want to set foot in OT because everyone is on edge and hunting for secret trolls. Everyone needs to take a breath and just start engaging better. We have time, and we want a good community. Lets build it up right.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

Running wall of shame of the type of users who 'respect' minorities and women...


Some have been banned, some not. But it's clear there is definitely an element here that do not want such conversations as talk of equality for LGBT.

Yeah community is so much better now with these trash left. /s

 

[Shabutaro]

Talks about being more than their struggles and brings up Grindr. Uh huh...

Oh I'm sorry, do gay men not use grindr? Is grindr not a source of interaction, annoyance and satisfaction. Tell me all about how grindr isnt a part of gay culture. Love it, hate it, feel nothing, but grindr and the hook up scene is a pretty integral part of young gay culture right now. It has its own challenges, positives and negatives on the community. But since you know so much about the gays, and you promise not to lock me up in a rainbow concentration camp, I'll take your word for it.
Thank GOD I have such a strong ally on my side. I'm sure you feel you deserve the A in LGBTQIA, darling.

 

[RinsFury]

Running wall of shame of the type of users who 'respect' minorities and women...

Some have been banned, some not. But it's clear there is definitely an element here that do not want such conversations as talk of equality for LGBT.

Let them think it's 'safe' to crawl out of the woodwork and show their racist and homophobic asses, the moderation has been diligent in taking care of them for this most part. With everything going on it's possible some may have been missed for the time being, but I have faith they will be taken care eventually.

 

[RastaMentality]

I kinda get what Shabutaro is saying. It's sort of like how everyone assumes all POC are some unified community when that isn't the case at all. But the manner in which phil-x voiced his concerns wasn't constructive. Why not propose separate threads be made for gay men and gay women instead of forcing the lesbians out of the main thread? The LGBT experience being centered around gay cis men is a problem and that would have reinforced it.

 

[Cagey]

Its the lack of patience that makes it hard to navigate the forum. You don't get to lose patience and start attacking everyone and expect there to be a functional community and discourse. The poster you lashed out at wasn't inherently wrong for thinking that, and I've posted about why I don't think so. Not everyone is a bigot in disguise, and we're bleeding quality posters enough as is. You're throwing out the baby with the bathwater here. Just because your gut doesn't agree with what someone said doesn't mean they're trolls. This isn't an anita thread, this isn't the heart of gamergate, we're not on a MRA reddit. We're mostly good people. If someone smells like a troll, do your goddamn due diligence and investigate and probe and see if they are. But assuming the worst is whats been making the OT so toxic for people. Normal, progressive, interesting people didn't want to set foot in OT because everyone is on edge and hunting for secret trolls. Everyone needs to take a breath and just start engaging better. We have time, and we want a good community. Lets build it up right.

Its literally evidence that for a lot of People, the disgruntled "I just want to talk my mind" narrative is really a dog whistle for "oh god just shut the fuck up about your social issues.

If they wanted a fair place to debate, they wouldn't be celebrating the complete death of the debate.

But you know.

And those disgruntled people are idiots.

The moderation problem is mainly an unevenness in moderating which allowed some posters enough slack to run rampant with passive-aggressive insults, sarcastic strawmanning which turned into thread derailment, general shitposting and the like, which increased the hostility from time-to-time in threads where disagreements arose amid otherwise civil discourse.

The "speak your mind" narrative is largely, not entirely, but largely nonsense.

In other words, the problem wasn't overzealously banning so-called "dissent" (i.e., "gays aren't people, that's just my opinion!"); the problem was failing to ban those contributing to hostility for actual or perceived dissent or variation from the consensus (i.e., parachuting into a thread to dial up pre-written meme responses to things not yet said, after determining what posters were on what side and figuring out enemies from the supposed battle lines).

The solution implemented here -- disabling that entire half of the forum -- is awful, and appears to be little more than a deflection.

 

[KojiKnight]

Let them think it's 'safe' to crawl out of the woodwork and show their racist and homophobic asses, the moderation has been diligent in taking care of them for this most part. With everything going on it's possible some may have been missed for the time being, but I have faith they will be taken care eventually.

Honestly this is the thing that is giving me hope, that a lot of them HAVE been taken care of. It doesn't change the fact that there are certainly these types here.

 

[NotMeKawaii]

Make NeoGAY Great Again

 

[Link]

Honestly this is the thing that is giving me hope, that a lot of them HAVE been taken care of. It doesn't change the fact that there are certainly these types here.

The one benefit to this whole situation is that the Gaming side is getting a culling similar to why people apparently thought the OT was so toxic. This is the type of shit being weeded out, and I have no problem with it.

 

[HStallion]

Oh I'm sorry, do gay men not use grindr? Is grindr not a source of interaction, annoyance and satisfaction. Tell me all about how grindr isnt a part of gay culture. Love it, hate it, feel nothing, but grindr and the hook up scene is a pretty integral part of young gay culture right now. It has its own challenges, positives and negatives on the community. But since you know so much about the gays, and you promise not to lock me up in a rainbow concentration camp, I'll take your word for it.
Thank GOD I have such a strong ally on my side. I'm sure you feel you deserve the A in LGBTQIA, darling.

No you just come off like a joke poster so I'm having trouble taking anything you say at all seriously. I'll leave it at that.