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Neon Genesis Evangelion AKA the worst anime ever
- Thread starter EGOMON
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The medication was a weird thing for me. It didn't really make me feel better. There is no happy pill as far as I know. It just made me feel... different. Better able to handle my work as an illustrator/ comic artist. Instead of being so emotionally crippled I would lose work by not checking my emails or checking in with work contacts instead I would suffer through twisted gut stabby feelings as I kept up... with a limited group of work contacts. It made the difference between zoning out for days slaving over a hot cintiq with no viable results and still being able to produce okay work at a decent rate. Socially there was some improvement but again it was still far from ideal. I was a wreck actually. Caught myself staring off into the distance only to realize it was in someone's eyeline and they thought I was staring at them multiple times. Other times I just couldn't think of anything to say for extended periods of time or I would lose interest in the conversation mid sentence. It didn't help with bad habits though. Eating shitty food, insomnia, shaving, etc and ultimately I don't think it's medication that helped me move passed it.
Not sure what helped me improve to such a large degree that I no longer feel like I am suffering through it in earnest. I do get intense flashes here and there and I do ghost on people from time to time but it's never months/ years on end like in the past. I'm not entirely convinced it isn't the normal anxiety people just go through some times but yeah, I do indeed feel like I am no longer this person and this is no longer the point I am at in my life though I can't say for sure that it will never come back.
Depression is a terrible thing though and I'm sorry to hear that it's such a regular thing for you.
The series is quite amazing from the beginning up until the last two episodes. End of evangelion doesn't make the ending any better sadly. When people act like it fixes things I just have to laugh. The only good part of the movie was the intro and literally the last scene which is imo quite iconic. I like what they tried to do there, but they really went overboard with trying to be deep overall. The other movie isn't even worth mentioning. And the newer movies (rebuild) started okay, but again ends up being too weird for its own good
I will say two things. The first is that I think Shinji gets a mountain of undeserved shit. The second, is that this was probably the most overrated anime I have personally watched yet. I wouldn't go as far to say it is the worst because there are some real stinkers out there. I will just say it did nothing for me and seems to be a case of being "complex and deep" for the sake of being "complex and deep". Though, I am willing to fully admit that it might just be a case of it not being my cup of tea.
It's a show about depression and psychological trauma in general - but not just in the simple sense that there are sad characters. The show's structure and plot progression is a reflection of Anno's experiences with depression and capture the nuances that most people overlook.
What I appreciate most of all is that the show does not treat mental illness and psychological trauma as a linear challenge with a consistent rising action and climax followed up by a saccharine happily-ever-after ending. That character development is not supposed to be a linear progression from bad traits to good traits, but rather it is reactive changes of personality based on environmental factors and the development of new paradigms of thought that slowly change the way people see the world that cannot be so easily categorized with a simple reductive dichotomy. There are glimmers of hope for characters that serve to reveal deeper problems within a character's psyche such as negative traits that were not readily apparent or demonstrate that what was thought to be a step forward for a character emotionally in a certain area actually creates more problems within the larger framework of their entire personality. And the ending manages to be both uplifting and darkly realistic at the same time. That learning to love yourself is only the first step - a crucial one, one worthy of celebration, but indeed still the first step out into a chaotic world. It doesn't change the mistakes of the past, but it means you can start moving forward. The Rebuild movies seem to be about
- I'm curious to see where that will be taken in the final movie.
I also think the ideas the show had towards gender issues are interesting. Notice that Shinji's and Asuka's dysfunctional personalities are treated as archetypal standards when their genders are flipped? The at-first-glance cocky man who lashes out at others as a way to protect himself whilst hiding his pain deep within would be just another typical protagonist for whom the only lesson would be learning to hide his emotions better, yet Asuka is derided as a bitch. The broken female heroine with crushingly low self-esteem under insurmountable weight put upon her would be met with weak sympathy and told to smile more as if that fixes everything, but Shinji is derided as a pussy. Not only are these unhealthy personalities treated as normal for the opposite gender, but they are still just as unhealthy! They just aren't viewed as standard for the opposite gender, and so we don't notice the dramatic extent to which they are unhealthy. Additionally, Shinji's twisted perception of women and feelings of entitlement towards relationships is directly addressed and harshly rebuked.
This isn't even getting into the subtleties of all of the side characters, who have complex personalities and multi-faceted problems of their own. Or how the tone of the show changes as it progresses, the way the beginning of the show manages to both lay the foundation for its message while still drawing in those who need to hear the message the most.
What I appreciate most of all is that the show does not treat mental illness and psychological trauma as a linear challenge with a consistent rising action and climax followed up by a saccharine happily-ever-after ending. That character development is not supposed to be a linear progression from bad traits to good traits, but rather it is reactive changes of personality based on environmental factors and the development of new paradigms of thought that slowly change the way people see the world that cannot be so easily categorized with a simple reductive dichotomy. There are glimmers of hope for characters that serve to reveal deeper problems within a character's psyche such as negative traits that were not readily apparent or demonstrate that what was thought to be a step forward for a character emotionally in a certain area actually creates more problems within the larger framework of their entire personality. And the ending manages to be both uplifting and darkly realistic at the same time. That learning to love yourself is only the first step - a crucial one, one worthy of celebration, but indeed still the first step out into a chaotic world. It doesn't change the mistakes of the past, but it means you can start moving forward. The Rebuild movies seem to be about
relapsing into depression, but how what you have learned influences the decisions you will make this time
I also think the ideas the show had towards gender issues are interesting. Notice that Shinji's and Asuka's dysfunctional personalities are treated as archetypal standards when their genders are flipped? The at-first-glance cocky man who lashes out at others as a way to protect himself whilst hiding his pain deep within would be just another typical protagonist for whom the only lesson would be learning to hide his emotions better, yet Asuka is derided as a bitch. The broken female heroine with crushingly low self-esteem under insurmountable weight put upon her would be met with weak sympathy and told to smile more as if that fixes everything, but Shinji is derided as a pussy. Not only are these unhealthy personalities treated as normal for the opposite gender, but they are still just as unhealthy! They just aren't viewed as standard for the opposite gender, and so we don't notice the dramatic extent to which they are unhealthy. Additionally, Shinji's twisted perception of women and feelings of entitlement towards relationships is directly addressed and harshly rebuked.
This isn't even getting into the subtleties of all of the side characters, who have complex personalities and multi-faceted problems of their own. Or how the tone of the show changes as it progresses, the way the beginning of the show manages to both lay the foundation for its message while still drawing in those who need to hear the message the most.
Turin Turambar
Member
What a shitty series, how I can put myself in the MC's shoes if he isn't a cool badass??
Now, Sword Art Online. Now we are talking!
Maybe IGN should make a "what NGE could learn of SAO".
Now, Sword Art Online. Now we are talking!
Maybe IGN should make a "what NGE could learn of SAO".
Sounds more like a Kotaku article.
Utena hides much, much more under its awesome style than Eva does. Eva is actually a very blunt story with very few things to say; it goes out of way to hit you over the head with the same ideas time and time again in different words. That's not to say it's shallow -- in fact, it's like it chooses one hole and just keeps digging there until it hits bedrock.
Near as I can tell, Eva's "2deep4me" reputation is so prevalent because both extremes of the viewership get caught up in the window dressing.
The "you just don't get it" crowd obsesses over the smallest of random allusions and claims it's massively critical.
The "I only watch battle shonen" crowd gets distracted by the technobabble and claims that nothing makes sense.
In reality, the sci-fi trappings and big words are there as background noise and framing, nothing more.
JadedWriter
Member
In some ways the characters in Eva are their own personal big bad.
VendettaRed07
Member
I am willing to listen to criticism on this show for sure but any time anyone makes this complaint I sort of tune out, because I don't think people who make this argument understand what the show was going for or what they were attempting to do.
EVA uses a lot of Christian motifs haphazardly. That's not to say there's no value in interpretation because interpretation is, or rather should be, separated from authorial intent. But it differs from Utena in that the symbolism has no specific direction, whereas Ikuhara did have a relatively strong vision that Utena's visuals all reinforce from the swords to the flowers to the cars.
(Although no one knows what Miki's stopwatch is supposed to be and I think Ikuhara doesn't either!)
EVA is more like a work of abstract art relative to Utena, which is ironic because Utena is visually and narratively much more abstract.
Mr Friend29
Member
Heh, funny finding this thread on Facebook of all places...Considering I finished watching the series for the first time last night I figured I could weigh in here since the OP and I watched it under the same pretenses...Also I did watch the dub if it matters. I thought the VA's did a really good job and it was not bad at all.
I started watching it last Thursday after getting sick of being hounded by my friends that I NEED to watch this if I like mechs at all. They hyped it up to be one of the greatest anime of all time and I was doing myself a negative not seeing it.
I ended up watching all 26 episodes in 3 days lol. All the characters were amazingly developed
, and the slow descent into madness I had heard about was incredible. Considering all I knew about this show was that it had mechs and gets really fucked up later on, I was blown away. Though I will admit I was completely lost by episode 24 and it took a little bit of Googling and digesting to really understand what happened lol. Also I did want more emphasis on action but now I understand what the aim of the show was and am ok with what the director went for.
This Monday I watched EoE because I was told it was better and fixed the unfinished ending of NGE. EoE was alot better, I was able to follow its plot easier (though reading earlier helped in this too!), and we got to see an actual ending that was *somewhat* satisfying.
Needless to say I wanted more, so last night I binged all 3 Rebuild movies and really did enjoy the continuation/
thing they had going on. I did notice alot of the more 2deep4u stuff was thrown out and replaced with more action (which was ok by me). 3.33 felt very much like fanservice stuff however and was probably my least favorite of the 3.
To summarize, I started EVA last week and finished everything last night and LOVED IT. I personally think it deserves all of the praise I see for it everywhere and is awesome if you love the "unhappy endings/villain MC" stuff. I was left a mess at the end of NGE and really thought about some stuff differently afterwords.
You really have to go into this with literally no expectations and no grudges or you will get lost and hate it. I have a feeling the OP didn't really want to watch this and was pretty much forced to by friends like me. He went into it unwilling and didn't like it, understandable.
Also....I'm done right? Only thing left to watch is 3+1 or whatever that had been in production hell for the last few years?
I started watching it last Thursday after getting sick of being hounded by my friends that I NEED to watch this if I like mechs at all. They hyped it up to be one of the greatest anime of all time and I was doing myself a negative not seeing it.
I ended up watching all 26 episodes in 3 days lol. All the characters were amazingly developed
aside from Rei, I really wanted to know more about her.
This Monday I watched EoE because I was told it was better and fixed the unfinished ending of NGE. EoE was alot better, I was able to follow its plot easier (though reading earlier helped in this too!), and we got to see an actual ending that was *somewhat* satisfying.
Needless to say I wanted more, so last night I binged all 3 Rebuild movies and really did enjoy the continuation/
alternate universe
To summarize, I started EVA last week and finished everything last night and LOVED IT. I personally think it deserves all of the praise I see for it everywhere and is awesome if you love the "unhappy endings/villain MC" stuff. I was left a mess at the end of NGE and really thought about some stuff differently afterwords.
You really have to go into this with literally no expectations and no grudges or you will get lost and hate it. I have a feeling the OP didn't really want to watch this and was pretty much forced to by friends like me. He went into it unwilling and didn't like it, understandable.
Also....I'm done right? Only thing left to watch is 3+1 or whatever that had been in production hell for the last few years?
GKSilKamina
Member
Worst anime ever? Maybe one of the most overrated. I'd say if you ever decide, for whatever reason, to give the series a second chance, go read the manga. I found the manga way more enjoyable and straightforward compared to the anime/early films. And it doesn't have budget issues!
Or you could just do what others have mentioned in this thread, and go check out RahXephon instead.
Or you could just do what others have mentioned in this thread, and go check out RahXephon instead.
I like both anime but favor RahXephon over Eva.
You don't even have to get the symbolism to follow the story. Most of the emotional states are things that a lot people have experienced or at least can understand. It just gets expressed in a very interesting and sometimes extreme way in the show. Like having a song play that's about wanting to kill yourself and having scenarios play out (that's mostly for the viewers) that are Shinji's feelings given life.
JadedWriter
Member
Why do people keep saying Rei had no growth? That's about as absurd as stating she has no emotions cause she does.
Caddyshack
Banned
=D>
JadedWriter
Member
Oh god is that fucking Gintama? What haven't they parodied? Next thing I know there's going to be a Gintama Zeta Gundam parody.
=D>
Langdon Alger
Banned
I think it's a good show, and I like the fact that Shinji had crippling depression. However, I do think a lot of the symbolism is meaningless, and that a lot of the story is muddled or just left unexplained. A lot of the story you get from synopses you read on the Internet is just straight-up invented by the fans.
=D>
lol ok I need to watch this.
JadedWriter
Member
One of the guys even has Gendo's beard and shades.
Murder. She Wrote
Member
Thank you OP for making this thread! I recently rewatched Evangelion with a friend of mine who has never seen it before and it was hilarious. I love to hate-watch bad anime and boy, Neon Genesis Evangelion is the king of shit anime. I like what they were trying to do but it was all executed so poorly. Instead of being deep and serious it felt i'm-twelve-and-this-is-deep.
Things I liked:
- Shinji is such a little bitch throughout the whole show. I love that fact that the main character so flawed and stays flawed till the end. I like how it focused more on the people and their traumas.
Things I didn't like:
- "IT BROKE THROUGH OUR UNILATERAL EGO BARRIER, WE HAVE A .00231% CHANCE OF SUCCESS" Seriously, every episode they were shouting stupid science words and silly percentages.
- All the softcore porn moments/fan service
- "Adam created Eve to become God and Angels are a product of man's desire, sent down from the heaven's to obliterate our egos. We must become one with ourselves blablablabla" It's like a twelve year old got drunk and tried to sound philosophical.
- Shinji is such a bitch I can't stop laughing
And that's just the stuff off the top of my head. Honestly, I think Evangelion is exactly like Catcher in the Rye. If you read it during a certain time in your life it comes across as deep and insightful. If you read it during another point in your life it's just dumb.
Things I liked:
- Shinji is such a little bitch throughout the whole show. I love that fact that the main character so flawed and stays flawed till the end. I like how it focused more on the people and their traumas.
Things I didn't like:
- "IT BROKE THROUGH OUR UNILATERAL EGO BARRIER, WE HAVE A .00231% CHANCE OF SUCCESS" Seriously, every episode they were shouting stupid science words and silly percentages.
- All the softcore porn moments/fan service
- "Adam created Eve to become God and Angels are a product of man's desire, sent down from the heaven's to obliterate our egos. We must become one with ourselves blablablabla" It's like a twelve year old got drunk and tried to sound philosophical.
- Shinji is such a bitch I can't stop laughing
And that's just the stuff off the top of my head. Honestly, I think Evangelion is exactly like Catcher in the Rye. If you read it during a certain time in your life it comes across as deep and insightful. If you read it during another point in your life it's just dumb.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Lot's of posts mentioning RahXephon. And really, I cannot choose one over the other. They're both so great, vastly different yet similar. Almost feel like you need to watch all of them for a full experience.
Honestly the trifecta is entire Evangelion saga + All of RahXephon + Xenogears.
Honestly the trifecta is entire Evangelion saga + All of RahXephon + Xenogears.
LambdaTeos
Member
*keeps singing*
" zaaankkooku na tenshi...... OH LOOK, SALT!"
" zaaankkooku na tenshi...... OH LOOK, SALT!"
So do people who hate Shinji as a character want all their media to have unrealistic characters?
Shinji is a 14 year old who has lived a mediocre life with his dad hating him and such, gets a passive aggressive letter telling him to come, and then is told to get in a random robot to fight a thing or all of humanity will die, and if he wont do it, they'll make the girl next to him bleeding to death do it because of him.
What the hell do you want from the kid? Plenty would have had way worse issues than just his PTSD after everything.
Shinji is a 14 year old who has lived a mediocre life with his dad hating him and such, gets a passive aggressive letter telling him to come, and then is told to get in a random robot to fight a thing or all of humanity will die, and if he wont do it, they'll make the girl next to him bleeding to death do it because of him.
What the hell do you want from the kid? Plenty would have had way worse issues than just his PTSD after everything.
JadedWriter
Member
They want Shinji to just kill Angels like Guts kills Apsostles.
beato_angelico
Member
this thread looks like something straight from 2001
freethoughtbubble
Member
This. Shinji haters are way too edgy for me. It's a good-to-great show, OP. I'm sorry you didn't like it.
I personally can't wait until it's unveiled the Shin Godzilla is actually just Evangelion 1.0+3.0. Then I can see Shinji fight the Last Angel that is Godzilla. It all comes tumbling down, tumbling down, tumbling down
But seriously, EVA is great. Such a landmark and influence on the many tropes we have today. But let's not all forget the wonderful Gunbuster
But seriously, EVA is great. Such a landmark and influence on the many tropes we have today. But let's not all forget the wonderful Gunbuster
GKSilKamina
Member
=D>
Gintama is too good for this sinful earth.
Lol if theres no true conclusion to the rebuild series then I will have to do something drastic.
=D>
this was the show that made me watch Evangelion back in 2011 and it was solely to understand the context of the jokes and parodies.
maybe they want interesting characters, realistic or unrealistic. Being realistic doesn't make Shinji inherently interesting. Most 14 year olds are boring as shit.
And before anyone says it, yes obviously this is very subjective.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Sometimes I wonder if GAF had lower standards of discourse so we could all have posted "congratulations" and nothing else for 6 pages or so.
just as an aside: if i recall, in the commentary on the recent nozomi/rightstuff dvd release he finally explains that miki is actually
noting the duration of the previous speaker's line
JadedWriter
Member
Next thing you know we'll see a thread saying the original Macross anime is the worst anime.
JadedWriter
Member
I actually would've just preferred it if they just stuck to the original plan and just used Rei. They only really switched cause seeing Rei and Shinji synch up so well was damaging Asuka's fragile ego.
John Kowalski
Banned
It has substance, but its most immediate iconography is useful only to the extent that it helps position certain narrative concepts. The obvious christian imagery is useful only to support the themes of apotheosis. Otherwise Eva has a, uh, "drier" kind of direction that's more utilitarian and modest than Ikuhara's way of using architecture as meaning. Which is not to give it any judgments of quality, if i were to be completely honest Anno is undoubtedly the better of the two in straight up composition and camera work. His sense of pacing and composition are some of the best i've ever seen, it's ridiculously good.
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