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New Board Gaming |OT2| On Tables, Off Topic

Is it actual rotation or is it retirement but with cards being re-released/updated?

I am a little confuse too, it reads like the cards are retired from competitive play and most likely from being sold since part of the article mention that retailers are having difficult time stoking so many set.
 

Lyng

Member
Just as an FYI, this game feels broken when someone who has one copy of the core set plays someone who has 3. I consider myself to be decently proficient at card games, but with only 1 copy of most cards, it was seemingly impossible to play against someone who could make a much more consistent deck than mine.

This doesn't sound like something that will affect you if you are only getting 1 box and playing with wife/friend, but be prepared if you do end up playing someone who has 3 copies of the core set.

Yeah if you are going for tournay play you need 3 cores. Its the FFG way I guess.
However you do get an equal amount of cards from each race (apart from Tyranids and Necrons who are not in the game, and will come out in a deluxe expansion next year) so you do get a really good game out of 1 core, IF you are just going to play with your wife or a friend.
I played two matches yesterday. I played as the ultramarines and my wife played the orcs. The playstyle from these two races feels very unique.
My wife obliterated my warlord in the first game because I just went head first up against her. And beeing that the orcs can play armies very cheap and these get buffed when they take damage, she managed to destroy my warlord before I could even retreat the second time.
In the second game I played my marines alot more on the defence. Spreading them out going for recources and managed to get the resources I needed to be able to play my beefy minions and the many insane event cards that are in the ultramarines deck.

So far I really love it. I used to own Netrunner and the first deluxe exp and played it alot with my best friend. But my wife really couldnt stand Netrunner. On the other hand she really enjoyed Conquest.
Its so fast and simply to setup and plays fast. Its actually very easy to learn to play, but still feels like there is a ton of strategy involved in order to master the different races.
So far its a huge thumbs up from me. However will return once we get more games in and try some of the other races.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
I recommend Forbidden Island. My daughter loves that game when she was younger and still play it now And thwn

So I don't play any of the Fantasy Flight Game LCG competitively but those of you that do, how do you guys feel about the announcement of card rotation?

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=5179
sgtm. I mean for netrunner it's not hitting until 2017 at the earliest almost seems weird to even be thinking about it now but yeah by then the game will definitely be in need of a refresh.
 
sgtm. I mean for netrunner it's not hitting until 2017 at the earliest almost seems weird to even be thinking about it now but yeah by then the game will definitely be in need of a refresh.

They probably wants to give a head up which I think is good for people getting into the game. I only play Netrunner with my son and sometime brother-in-law with just out of the box so it doesn't really impact us. I would love the idea of LCG back when I used to play card game competitively. (I used to play Decipher SW:CCG and then their version of the movie LOTR:CCG).
 

Karkador

Banned
sgtm. I mean for netrunner it's not hitting until 2017 at the earliest almost seems weird to even be thinking about it now but yeah by then the game will definitely be in need of a refresh.

In my personal opinion (as someone who doesn't design card games), I can't even wrap my head around why they should (and even are able to) keep making new cards after a certain point. Likewise, I wonder how they're still putting out cards for Magic at this point.

I get FFG's statement that a card game becomes too bloated with stuff to learn and be aware of (especially for newbies) with so many cards in existence, but I already felt that way during the second Cycle. I stopped playing when it became apparent that players with savant-level knowledge of all the latest cards and potential strategies pretty much eclipsed my casual style of enjoying the game itself.

Of course, that's probably the nature of any competitive card game, but I don't know if the card rotation is really answering that problem (for me, anyway).
 
Can you guys recommend me a nice family board game, 4-5 players, age 6+, 30-60 minutes?

My son turns 4 next month, I'll be looking for some games in a couple of years too. The ones I've been looking at are:

Ticket to Ride
Forbidden Island
Survive: Escape from Atlantis!

I don't really like King of Tokyo but that would be a great one for kids.
 

Xater

Member
At the end of this week's South Park episode, they actually have board games in it: Dead of Winter, Mice & Mystics, King of New York, Lords of Waterdeep, Merchants & Marauders, and Zombicide!




Zombicide is a game good for zombie massacre (especially if you have extra zombies like from stretch goals or multiple games). If you want to run around doing minimal things but just obliterating zombies...this is the game for you. Everyone is a human.

Last Night on Earth is more a thematic version. This feels like you are playing a B-Movie in board game form. If you like cheesy zombie movies and that sorts...this is a good game to get. Also comes with a soundtrack if you buy the first one. I'm pretty sure Timber Peak doesn't come with it but it has player upgrades. One to two players are zombies, rest are heroes.

Dead of Winter is...I've only played it once but I wouldn't dare call it a zombie game. It is a game with zombies more as a backdrop. You could almost replace the zombies with anything else and would relatively stay the same. Everyone is a human (or a dog).

Zombies!!! is probably something to look into if you think Zombicide is too expensive and you want to kill zombies. It isn't as massacrey as Zombicide but it is modular and light on theme.

That's all I got on zombies for now.

Zombies are not the main draw for me, even with Zombicide. I would just enoy a thematic co-op romp. That's why I was interested when the pure co-op thing for Descent was mentioned. A fantasy setting would be fantastic. I know of the D&D but those were never released in German. Dead of Winter I think looks like a fantastic game but the theme again might be a turn off. I heard they might be doing a cross roads game in a sci-fi setting, so I guess I'll keep an eye out for that.
 
In my personal opinion (as someone who doesn't design card games), I can't even wrap my head around why they should (and even are able to) keep making new cards after a certain point. Likewise, I wonder how they're still putting out cards for Magic at this point.

I get FFG's statement that a card game becomes too bloated with stuff to learn and be aware of (especially for newbies) with so many cards in existence, but I already felt that way during the second Cycle. I stopped playing when it became apparent that players with savant-level knowledge of all the latest cards and potential strategies pretty much eclipsed my casual style of enjoying the game itself.

Of course, that's probably the nature of any competitive card game, but I don't know if the card rotation is really answering that problem (for me, anyway).

In your case I don't think it's the number of card pool but more of the fact that you (and me) just do not have the time to analyze all the cards, check out all the new expansion and test decks and keep up with the current meta. I used to do that when I was playing competitively, you play so much that you know what cards do what and what card to expect from your opponents. That said reducing the card pool (which Magic does) change the gaming meta and remove the "killer" combo which reduced the variety on deck design as more card get introduce into the system. It also help game designer managed the broken cards or broken set of cards.
 

Keasar

Member
It's only for a limited scenario selection of play, it sadly doesn't work with the whole game and any of the expansion materials so it's a very limited system. You can buy it now but it's same limited game night pack and not a full fledged system.

Yes that is what it is but with story theme (Instead of just random endless dungeon rooms). We have the same problem with Descent. I usually play Overlord also and it is just frustrating. I think next time we play I have to get into the idea that I am there just to be a roadblocks for the Heroes and put up the challenge yet knowing that most likely they will just stomp me. Also problem with Descent is the Heroes can take long careful turns without penalty this doesn't allow for that as there is a timer that running (also pretty nice mechanic).

Also as Monkey and I mentioned, this is just side expansion Print on Demand thing and it doesn't convert your entire Descent 2nd edition into co-op game. I really hope they expand the concept and may be next Descent do away with Overlord altogether and implement this but I can see a difficulty in making the Minions control deck with so many variety, you would have to make a deck for each minion types.

Well, if they make it a full expansion, I am all for it and would definitely give it a shot.

Zombies are not the main draw for me, even with Zombicide. I would just enoy a thematic co-op romp. That's why I was interested when the pure co-op thing for Descent was mentioned. A fantasy setting would be fantastic. I know of the D&D but those were never released in German. Dead of Winter I think looks like a fantastic game but the theme again might be a turn off. I heard they might be doing a cross roads game in a sci-fi setting, so I guess I'll keep an eye out for that.

I'm no big fan of zombies either but Dead of Winter seem to be focusing on what makes most recent zombie apocalypses interesting, the people. The zombies are just a force of nature in the background who affect their lives. I am considering getting a copy myself.
 

Xater

Member
Ordered Zombicide because a shop here has some crazy deals going on right now for board games. Got it for almost half off. I am just going to blame you guys that I bought another board game despite swearing to stop for a while again.

If my friends did not already own Istanbul I would have bought that as well for 19€. What a steal.
 

Xater

Member
Big Edit: Actually decided to cancel my order and just get Dead of Winter once it's out. My group seems very much into hidden roles and lying to each other, so I think the betrayal stuff and secret objectives will go over well.
 
Is Dead of Winter ideal for only 2 players, or does it require special accommodations for 2-player sessions (ala Ghost Stories, where each player has to handle an additional monk)?
 

Experien

Member
Big Edit: Actually decided to cancel my order and just get Dead of Winter once it's out. My group seems very much into hidden roles and lying to each other, so I think the betrayal stuff and secret objectives will go over well.

When I played Dead of Winter...there really wasn't much lying going on. The hidden roles is more of there MIGHT be a traitor and everyone has a different (hidden) objective like "have 3 tools in your hand by the end of the game."

I got a better feeling of "hidden roles" from Battlestar or Room 25.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
Got in King of New York from Amazon yesterday. Looks really fun and I don't think it totally obsoleted KoT because it does add a decent amount of new mechanics to where I'd still probably play KoT with non-boardgamers.
 

Experien

Member
Got in King of New York from Amazon yesterday. Looks really fun and I don't think it totally obsoleted KoT because it does add a decent amount of new mechanics to where I'd still probably play KoT with non-boardgamers.

What the heck? Iello told me November 13? Hmmm, should I cancel my pre-order with CSI and get it on Amazon now?
 

Draxal

Member
Got in King of New York from Amazon yesterday. Looks really fun and I don't think it totally obsoleted KoT because it does add a decent amount of new mechanics to where I'd still probably play KoT with non-boardgamers.

And its compatible with KoT monsters as well.
 
I need suggestions, Arkham Horror or Eldritch Horror? All reviews seem to suggest Eldritch but Arkham look more meatier. It will be mostly solo play or may be 2 player at most.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
What the heck? Iello told me November 13? Hmmm, should I cancel my pre-order with CSI and get it on Amazon now?

Yeah that's when CSI is getting it in as well. Their preorders are sold out so I as pretty surprised that Amazon just had it for sale (little more expensive though).
 
When I played Dead of Winter...there really wasn't much lying going on. The hidden roles is more of there MIGHT be a traitor and everyone has a different (hidden) objective like "have 3 tools in your hand by the end of the game."

I got a better feeling of "hidden roles" from Battlestar or Room 25.

Yeah I didn't feel that the hidden objective stuff in Dead of Winter was that important or great. If people are into betrayal games, there are probably other games that do that better.
 

Experien

Member
I need suggestions, Arkham Horror or Eldritch Horror? All reviews seem to suggest Eldritch but Arkham look more meatier. It will be mostly solo play or may be 2 player at most.

Arkham is more meatier cause it is older and had more time for expansions?

I think a lot of people suggest that Eldritch Horror is more like a "light" Arkham Horror. I don't think Eldritch Horror would be that great solo unless you played as multiple investigators. Can't comment on Arkham.
 

Chorazin

Member
When I played Dead of Winter...there really wasn't much lying going on. The hidden roles is more of there MIGHT be a traitor and everyone has a different (hidden) objective like "have 3 tools in your hand by the end of the game."

I got a better feeling of "hidden roles" from Battlestar or Room 25.

In every game of it I've played so far, the hidden roles were super interesting. :shrug:
 
I was watching South Park last night and at the end of the episode they were playing board games. Great selection!

lbdsZzQ.jpg


Pretty good detail on those Zombicide minis!
 

Draxal

Member
I need suggestions, Arkham Horror or Eldritch Horror? All reviews seem to suggest Eldritch but Arkham look more meatier. It will be mostly solo play or may be 2 player at most.

Arkham takes like 3 hours to set up the game.

Yeah that's when CSI is getting it in as well. Their preorders are sold out so I as pretty surprised that Amazon just had it for sale (little more expensive though).

At NYCC they had a giant blown up version of KONY (I want to say around 4 by 8), I really wanted to steal it and take it home.
 
Arkham takes like 3 hours to set up the game.

At NYCC they had a giant blown up version of KONY (I want to say around 4 by 8), I really wanted to steal it and take it home.

I have been watching the video on YouTubes .. yeah, there sure is a lot of bit. It's going to be set up and then play over days either solo or with my kids (probably solo, I am sure my kids going to balk at the rules and forget about my wife) so that part is fine. It will just be in our formal dining room table. The board look gigantic ...
 

Rubius

Member
I was watching South Park last night and at the end of the episode they were playing board games. Great selection!

lbdsZzQ.jpg


Pretty good detail on those Zombicide minis!

They didnt include the Prostitute/Nurse on the cover of Dead of Winter. Sad face.jpeg.
She's literally the only character on her knees. The guys saw her and said "Is she a prostitute?" "Nah she's a nurse..."

Best character. 10/10 would draft again.

BTW. Saw the French version of Dead of Winter coming soon from Filo, and it will be around 85$. Why. The game cant cost that much by copy to translate into French. It just cant. That's 35$ more than the english version. I wont pay that just to be able to play more easily with my friends. Eldritch Horror did the same thing. Anybody have a clue why it's so expensive that in add +60% in value to a game? It's not like they needed new molds for minis to be french. All they do is send the FR version to a printer and bam.
 
BTW. Saw the French version of Dead of Winter coming soon from Filo, and it will be around 85$. Why. The game cant cost that much by copy to translate into French. It just cant. That's 35$ more than the english version. I wont pay that just to be able to play more easily with my friends. Eldritch Horror did the same thing. Anybody have a clue why it's so expensive that in add +60% in value to a game? It's not like they needed new molds for minis to be french. All they do is send the FR version to a printer and bam.

Cost of translation, then you have to make separate run for the different language and then distribution cost, cost of keeping another inventory on and on and on. Not that I agree about such inflated price but that's probably why. The smaller the run the higher the cost.
 

Xater

Member
Cost of translation, then you have to make separate run for the different language and then distribution cost, cost of keeping another inventory on and on and on. Not that I agree about such inflated price but that's probably why. The smaller the run the higher the cost.

Must be a small run because the German release will apparently cost around 40€.
 
Must be a small run because the German release will apparently cost around 40€.

I really don't know I am just speculating. If I have to guess, I would think Germany would have a much bigger market than France for boardgames.

So after looking around and can't seem to find storage that would satisfy what I want (keeping everything in the box), I finally decided to give foam-core a try. I figure it can't hurt because I have most of the tools and I would only be out $12.00 for the foam-core and $4.00 for cloth pins. Since I have been on Descent kick lately due to the solo/co-op mode, I figure I would tackle Descent since it is getting frustrating rummaging through plastic bags that I used to store all the pieces and parts.

I used the guide from the Esoteric Order of Gamers and their very helpful instructional video. I modified the design a little since I want to use the plastic lock box to holds all the tokens and chits and I want to be able to have room for the Forgotten Souls cards (there aren't a lot but they are kind of large). Anyway, it was actually really fun and good learning experience. It's not going to win any beauty pageant, but it's functional. So it seems the hardest part is cutting these darn form-core and keep them straight so you can form 90 degree joints, also test fit everything before gluing (learn that the hard way after finishing the small box and can't get it to go into the large box due to my poor measurement and cutting).

IqRPZ3Ql.jpg


KKWTV3Pl.jpg


hCM4Vdml.jpg


Now I am on the foam-core craze and already thinking about next project.
 
Got in King of New York from Amazon yesterday. Looks really fun and I don't think it totally obsoleted KoT because it does add a decent amount of new mechanics to where I'd still probably play KoT with non-boardgamers.

I got mine in on Tuesday from Amazon. Can't wait to play.

At NYCC they had a giant blown up version of KONY (I want to say around 4 by 8), I really wanted to steal it and take it home.

I straight up threatened the staff of Foam Brain and told them to give it to me.
 

AMUSIX

Member
Organized my game shelf today. Since it'll only last like this for a few days, thought I'd share it...and see what people think I should add to it (besides another shelf):
VGj6unBh.jpg


A few notes:

Top Shelf (a few items can't be seen) Super Mastermind, Trivial Pursuit Genus Edition. The wooden boxes are, from top to bottom, Monopoly, Scrabble, and Clue

Next shelf (some items obscured) Clue Master Detective (awesome, expanded Clue game, only sold for a few years), Once Upon a Time, The Great Dalmuti, The Game of Life (the original version)

Arkham Shelf (some items can't be seen) Lost Cities, The Resistance, Ultimate Werewolf

Bottom Shelf (which can't be seen well) giant black Risk Onyx Edition, lot of decks of cards, poker chips (Joker, Covergirls of DCU, and full professional set) Forbidden Island/Forbidden Desert, Sentinels of the Multiverse with all expansions + The Cauldron fan expansion, Marvel Dice Masters (with UXM), Dominoes


Everything else I think is identifiable. Oh, Dixit has a few of the expansions as well.


Lately, we've been playing a lot of Sentinels, Ticket to Ride Nordic, and Smash Up (oh, which also has a bunch of the expansions)
 

Rubius

Member
Organized my game shelf today. Since it'll only last like this for a few days, thought I'd share it...and see what people think I should add to it (besides another shelf):
Lately, we've been playing a lot of Sentinels, Ticket to Ride Nordic, and Smash Up (oh, which also has a bunch of the expansions)

If you like Tsuro, you should check out Indigo. It's Tsuro with a "Coop/Anti Coop" mechanic where you try to get gems on the side of the board, but you share every side of the board with a different player and share all the gems with him. So you have to give gems to people, but you have to watch out to not give too much. I prefer it over Tsuro since you interact more with players.

 

AMUSIX

Member
Ugh, Takenoko being oriented that direction/facing is hurting my eyes something fierce.
Ha...I noticed it right after I tool the picture and I knew it would annoy someone. I think that's the way it's going to face from now on :)
If you like Tsuro, you should check out Indigo. It's Tsuro with a "Coop/Anti Coop" mechanic where you try to get gems on the side of the board, but you share every side of the board with a different player and share all the gems with him. So you have to give gems to people, but you have to watch out to not give too much. I prefer it over Tsuro since you interact more with players.

Ohhh, this sounds awesome. The moment I got Tsuro of the Seas, Tsuro was done. It's one of the games on the shelf that I could get rid of without any issue. Indigo sounds like it might do that to TotS....
 
In my personal opinion (as someone who doesn't design card games), I can't even wrap my head around why they should (and even are able to) keep making new cards after a certain point. Likewise, I wonder how they're still putting out cards for Magic at this point.

I get FFG's statement that a card game becomes too bloated with stuff to learn and be aware of (especially for newbies) with so many cards in existence, but I already felt that way during the second Cycle. I stopped playing when it became apparent that players with savant-level knowledge of all the latest cards and potential strategies pretty much eclipsed my casual style of enjoying the game itself.

Of course, that's probably the nature of any competitive card game, but I don't know if the card rotation is really answering that problem (for me, anyway).

The whole aspect of card rotations and retiring sets from competitive play is how they get around having to stop making cards. Its an excuse to keep pumping out product while acting like its for the good in the game, while majority of the time when cards are retired, they just come back in a tweaked form as a new different card in new sets. Of they didn't retire cards they would hit a creative wall and not really have any where to go. The competitive scene gives these games an artificial infinite life span.
 

EYEL1NER

Member
So I think for tomorrow night's lineup I think we'll try to play The Agents and the Lord of the Rings LCG. There aren't many rules for The Agents and I think I have read enough of the rule book, FAQs, and rule summaries for LotR today to stumble through a game of that. Odds are that BraveRats/R will make an appearance and we will more than likely play at least one game of MtG. I was hoping to get our first game of Blood Bowl Team manager in after reading the rules thoroughly a week or two back but I've got LotR fresh in my mind now and am really excited about that. I might try flipping through the BB Team manager rules again tomorrow at work anyway though.

I spent a good three or four hours at work today reading about Dust Tactics and trying to keep myself from ordering a core set (or worse, buying a Premium core set). I am successful so far but I do really really want it still. Maybe after the New Year...
 

Experien

Member
Game day today went well...

-Chains to Champions (LEGO Gladiator game with bidding/auctioning for stuff)
-Space Cadet: Dice Duel
-Tsuro: Path of Seas

Was pretty sweet time thought I had to be the commander and not actually roll rice for SC:DD :/ That was a little bummer.

A bigger bummer is X-Men Dice Masters...it seems WizKids learned their lessons and it is EVERYWHERE so no re-sell. That isn't why I bought it but I don't think my GF will want to play it and my nearby 1v1 guy isn't interested. I don't know what to do with my unopened copy that I got from CSI. I don't know others with it.
 

Giard

Member
Hey guys,

first time poster, long time lurker. I want a new board game and I'd like your opinions.
I own Wits and Wagers, Cards Against Humanity, Last Night on Earth and Puerto Rico. I'd like something nice to add to that.

The two favorite games that my friends like to play are Cards Against Humanity and 7 Wonders. I'd like to get something slightly different than those games, however I'm kinda scared to get some more complicated games.

I was looking at Dominant Species; however, I'm kinda scared that the complexity or length of games would scare off people. I'd like to have a game with more player interaction though. Maybe Battlestar Galactica? I've never watched the show.

Any suggestions? Our group also owns Dominion, Race to the Galaxy (I personally dislike it), Agricola, Arkham Horror, Cosmic Encounter (didn't get played a lot). I'd like a game with a high number of players if possible.
 

fenners

Member
Hey guys,

first time poster, long time lurker. I want a new board game and I'd like your opinions.
I own Wits and Wagers, Cards Against Humanity, Last Night on Earth and Puerto Rico. I'd like something nice to add to that.

The two favorite games that my friends like to play are Cards Against Humanity and 7 Wonders. I'd like to get something slightly different than those games, however I'm kinda scared to get some more complicated games.

I was looking at Dominant Species; however, I'm kinda scared that the complexity or length of games would scare off people. I'd like to have a game with more player interaction though. Maybe Battlestar Galactica? I've never watched the show.

Any suggestions? Our group also owns Dominion, Race to the Galaxy (I personally dislike it), Agricola, Arkham Horror, Cosmic Encounter (didn't get played a lot). I'd like a game with a high number of players if possible.

I love Dominant Species, but it's a fair jump in complexity/depth compared to most of those except maybe Agricola. It's not a hard game to play, but it's a hard game to play well & to judge best move if you're familiar with it.
 

Experien

Member
Hey guys,

first time poster, long time lurker. I want a new board game and I'd like your opinions.
I own Wits and Wagers, Cards Against Humanity, Last Night on Earth and Puerto Rico. I'd like something nice to add to that.

The two favorite games that my friends like to play are Cards Against Humanity and 7 Wonders. I'd like to get something slightly different than those games, however I'm kinda scared to get some more complicated games.

I was looking at Dominant Species; however, I'm kinda scared that the complexity or length of games would scare off people. I'd like to have a game with more player interaction though. Maybe Battlestar Galactica? I've never watched the show.

Any suggestions? Our group also owns Dominion, Race to the Galaxy (I personally dislike it), Agricola, Arkham Horror, Cosmic Encounter (didn't get played a lot). I'd like a game with a high number of players if possible.


Might not be what you are looking for but my high number player games are Tsuro and Red November. They both play up to 8 and aren't difficult to learn. Red November can be hard to win.
 

Rubius

Member
Hey guys,

first time poster, long time lurker. I want a new board game and I'd like your opinions.
I own Wits and Wagers, Cards Against Humanity, Last Night on Earth and Puerto Rico. I'd like something nice to add to that.

The two favorite games that my friends like to play are Cards Against Humanity and 7 Wonders. I'd like to get something slightly different than those games, however I'm kinda scared to get some more complicated games.

I was looking at Dominant Species; however, I'm kinda scared that the complexity or length of games would scare off people. I'd like to have a game with more player interaction though. Maybe Battlestar Galactica? I've never watched the show.

Any suggestions? Our group also owns Dominion, Race to the Galaxy (I personally dislike it), Agricola, Arkham Horror, Cosmic Encounter (didn't get played a lot). I'd like a game with a high number of players if possible.

I would recommend :

King of Tokyo. Roll big dices and destroy each other for control over Tokyo. Really simple and really fun.

Citadel : Build a city, reveal roles, and backstab each other

One Night Ultimate Werewolf : Light "Roleplay" where you have guys trying to pretend they are not werewolfs and the villagers have to try to find them out. Play in under 10 minutes.

Among the Stars : If you liked 7 Wonders, Among the Stars is like 7 wonders but with a visual and building aspect. You draft and build a space ship.

Istanbul : Worker Placement game where you actually move around the board with your workers and try to find the best route. A lot of replayability.

Lords of Waterdeep : Entry level Worker Placement where you get cubes to do quests to get points.
 

Giard

Member
I love Dominant Species, but it's a fair jump in complexity/depth compared to most of those except maybe Agricola. It's not a hard game to play, but it's a hard game to play well & to judge best move if you're familiar with it.

I've heard that the game can be shortened considerably by removing half the domination cards. Does it impact the game much?

Thanks guys for all the suggestions. King of Tokyo was on my wishlist as well, but isn't King of New York coming out soon? Isn't that an improved version?

We've played Citadel and Werewolf before, good games.
If I wanted to start playing more complex games (such as Dominant Species) what would you suggest then? I thought of it because of the theme and the great reviews.
 
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