Support NeoGAF

[NeonZ]

The idea of recycling a transformation is stupid. The original Kai had merchandising problems because there was nothing new. Going out of their way to create a new series, only to feature an old transformation there in a major way would be a waste of resources. We'll get new transformations.

It is a speculative conversation, they aren't ignoring anything, they just don't clock on to it. And they don't talk 'about control as the only requisite', their entire speculation is on finding the missing condition, which they never do. Bulma alludes to the SSJ ape by concluding that Vegeta is 'stronger' (SSJ capable) now than in his regular ape days. They both commit to the generator machine on Bulma's belief it 'should' work.

Regardless of the clueless and speculative Vegeta/Bulma, the hard facts are no one has become SSJ4 without turning SSJ ape first.

There's nothing suggesting that they're meant to be "clueless" and "ignorant" in that scene. They even play the clip of the Golden Great Ape in Bulma's screen yet and just completely ignore it in their conversation.

SSJ4 haters can just stop. Why is there zero reason? The same studio that did GT is working on this. Toriyama said no more new transformations, SSJ4 satisfies that technicality. #TeamSSJ4

He never said that though. He said no more SSJ2 and 3 and how Goku would only focus on the basic SSJ from then on when asked if a SSJ5 could appear in the future of the series. That might rule out more SSJ# forms, but we could still get new transformations through other methods and with other names.

This takes place after the new films, right? And I'm correct in assuming that they take place after the The Kid Buu Saga and before GT, assuming GT is a part of that continuity? In that case, SSJ4 isn't even a thing at this point in time, right? not seen the two recent films, so no idea what goes on in them.

We don't know exactly when this takes place. It could be right after the most recent movie, or post-Z altogether. The words are really vague, especially compared to Battle of Gods, when they immediately went explaining that it took place before the last two chapters. Regarding GT vs the new movies, they never get to the point where GT should happen, but

Spoiler

in Revival F, Goku's and Vegeta's SSJ transformation changes to having blue hair due to their divine ki, so things have headed into a direction completely incompatible with GT, where that obviously didn't happen. There's also Freeza getting a new transformation too, and various other minor elements that go in a different direction from GT.

 

[yogloo]

I don't know how AT resisted never bringing Raditz back and killing him off that early in the first place.

You'd think the main character's evil brother would have been a major character.

I bet you 5 bucks he forgot about him.

 

[KidA Seven]

No need to retcon GT, it doesn't even take place in the same universe as Toriyama's stuff and the two recent movies introduce plenty of new things that completely ignore GT in a huge way.
Toriyama didn't design SSJ4 so I doubt he'd be for repurposing it for DBS(though he did take Bardock, a TOEI creation). The reasoning he gave for SSG (and by extension SSGSS) being so simple is because he hated how complex and overdone the transformation designs had gotten, so he wanted to take things back down to a more basic level, SSJ4 is pretty much the complete antithesis to that design philosophy.

The only one that looked bigger/more complex and be stronger was Zarbon. Cell and Frieza at their strongest was a very simple looking form compared to their previous forms. Buu was simple looking for every form really.

 

[NeonZ]

The only one that looked bigger/more complex and be stronger was Zarbon. Cell and Frieza at their strongest was a very simple looking form compared to their previous forms. Buu was simple looking for every form really.

You're forgetting SSJ3 itself, which is probably what Toriyama was referencing.

 

[KidA Seven]

You're forgetting SSJ3 itself, which is probably what Toriyama was referencing.

I didn't forget. I should have said the only other one.

 

[PhantomX1313]

The think floating in my mind right now is that there could be serious bidding war between the big 3s ( CN, Disney, Nickelodeon ) to aquire the television rights in US and west.
The bidding could cross $1 billion knowing DBZ worldwide popularity.

 

[Winterfang]

Dragon Ball needs to be on Cartoon Network.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Dragon Ball needs to be on Cartoon Network.

Toonami as a whole needs to come back to CN.

 

[Kyleripman]

Could anyone DBfy my avatar creatively? I don't know what to do with it and I want it to look somewhat natural

Hope you like Boss Rabbit:

Spoiler

Let me know what you want if you want a real one lol

 

[Sami+]

SSJG really grew on me. All it took was a different mindset - try to understand what they're going for if you don't like it.

It's not a new transformation, it's a soft reset on the Saiyans' power. It's changing their ki signature from mortal ki to god ki, giving it that fiery effect as opposed to the sharper, pointier looking ki we've seen before. SSJG Goku is just Goku, but with god ki. That's why the only difference is the color of his hair. Likewise, SSJGSS is just SSJ1, but in god form. Hence the only difference being hair color.

I honestly really like this idea now, and I definitely prefer it to the direction of increasingly ridiculous looking transformations we were getting before.

My only issue is the naming. Super Saiyan God should have just been called Saiyan God, and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is completely fucking stupid and should have been called Super Saiyan God.

 

[Maxim726X]

SSJG really grew on me. All it took was a different mindset - try to understand what they're going for if you don't like it.

It's not a new transformation, it's a soft reset on the Saiyans' power. It's changing their ki signature from mortal ki to god ki, giving it that fiery effect as opposed to the sharper, pointier looking ki we've seen before. SSJG Goku is just Goku, but with god ki. That's why the only difference is the color of his hair. Likewise, SSJGSS is just SSJ1, but in god form. Hence the only difference being hair color.

I honestly really like this idea now, and I definitely prefer it to the direction of increasingly ridiculous looking transformations we were getting before.

My only issue is the naming. Super Saiyan God should have just been called Saiyan God, and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is completely fucking stupid and should have been called Super Saiyan God.

But... Isn't that partially why we love the series so much?

It consistently outdoes its own stupidity, and we eat it up.

 

[Sami+]

But... Isn't that partially why we love the series so much?

It consistently outdoes its own stupidity, and we eat it up.

I like Dragon Ball a lot more than Z and I like very, VERY little of Z after Cell so speak for yourself lol.

I thought SSJ2 was way, way cooler as a fully realized Super Saiyan, capping off a number of flawed forms as opposed to just another notch on the totem pole.

 

[Shauni]

Anyone know of a place to watch Kai legally? I've kind of got nostalgic about watching DBZ again along with DB, but I can only find the original series on Hulu and...I just don't think I can sit through that again. I haven't seen Kai, either, so I'd like to see how it flows.

SSJG really grew on me. All it took was a different mindset - try to understand what they're going for if you don't like it.

It's not a new transformation, it's a soft reset on the Saiyans' power. It's changing their ki signature from mortal ki to god ki, giving it that fiery effect as opposed to the sharper, pointier looking ki we've seen before. SSJG Goku is just Goku, but with god ki. That's why the only difference is the color of his hair. Likewise, SSJGSS is just SSJ1, but in god form. Hence the only difference being hair color.

I honestly really like this idea now, and I definitely prefer it to the direction of increasingly ridiculous looking transformations we were getting before.

My only issue is the naming. Super Saiyan God should have just been called Saiyan God, and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is completely fucking stupid and should have been called Super Saiyan God.

I don't know, it still seems lazy as fuck to me. And Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is just a horrible name.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Yeah, I always thought that was how it should be interpreted. That is just what base and ssj look like when you have crazy god powers.

 

[Jaeger]

We will get more transformations. I'd bet my Z Card on it.

 

[Skii]

This takes place after the new films, right? And I'm correct in assuming that they take place after the The Kid Buu Saga and before GT, assuming GT is a part of that continuity? In that case, SSJ4 isn't even a thing at this point in time, right? not seen the two recent films, so no idea what goes on in them.

I don't think GT can ever be part of the continuity now because of the two recent movies.

Firstly, you'd expect Goku to become SSG at least once in the GT episodes after learning it and it seems to be at the same power level of SSJ4 meaning it makes that form irrelevant.

Also, I remember a scene in GT with Frieza in hell that makes no sense now considering he can transform into a golden version that is beyond the strength of SSG. Why wouldn't he have been transformed into that?

 

[Jaeger]

As had been said numerous times, GT is not apart of this new series. Super will ignore it, just as all the latest projects (Goku & Friends and on) has. It is already not compatible with the set-up BoG has placed.

 

[ArchedThunder]

I don't think GT can ever be part of the continuity now because of the two recent movies.

Firstly, you'd expect Goku to become SSG at least once in the GT episodes after learning it and it seems to be at the same power level of SSJ4 meaning it makes that form irrelevant.

Also, I remember a scene in GT with Frieza in hell that makes no sense now considering he can transform into a golden version that is beyond the strength of SSG. Why wouldn't he have been transformed into that?

Well SSJG isn't a transformation for Goku now, he just has that power in his base form, we also can't forget that the gap in power between SSJ3 Goku and Beerus was so massive that Goku couldn't do a single thing to him and Beerus knocked him out cold in two blows (he probably coulda done it in one) but then when he became a God he could fight on Beerus's level, I don't think it's ridiculous to assume that Godku is stronger than SSJ4 Goku. Then there is the fact that Goku and Vegeta no longer have regular Super Saiyan forms, those have been replaced by SSGSS, so the fact that they go SSJ in GT is in opposition to that. As for the Freeza thing you also can't forget that GT is using the filler Hell, while the new movie uses a completely different version of Hell that is absolutely nothing like GT's, the "Toriyama Hell" pretty much makes it impossible for the Super 17 saga to even happen at all.
People will be a lot happier if they just accept that GT is its own thing and will stay its own thing.

 

[Skii]

Well SSJG isn't a transformation for Goku now, he just has that power in his base form, we also can't forget that the gap in power between SSJ3 Goku and Beerus was so massive that Goku couldn't do a single thing to him and Beerus knocked him out cold in two blows (he probably coulda done it in one) but then when he became a God he could fight on Beerus's level, I don't think it's ridiculous to assume that Godku is stronger than SSJ4 Goku. Then there is the fact that Goku and Vegeta no longer have regular Super Saiyan forms, those have been replaced by SSGSS, so the fact that they go SSJ in GT is in opposition to that. As for the Freeza thing you also can't forget that GT is using the filler Hell, while the new movie uses a completely different version of Hell that is absolutely nothing like GT's, the "Toriyama Hell" pretty much makes it impossible for the Super 17 saga to even happen at all.
People will be a lot happier if they just accept that GT is its own thing and will stay its own thing.

Yeah, sorry, I keep forgetting that SSG isn't a new form but the base form of Goku now essentially.

I wonder if the ending of DBZ will now be contradictory to what happens on DB super...

Uub's implied to be as strong as Kid Buu but with all these jumps in power and so on, his level will be pathetic compared to Goku, Vegeta and possibly others making Goku's efforts in training him completely pointless.

 

[Kito]

I stumbled upon some cool fanart.

#JusticeForSuperSaiyan4.

 

[The Silver]

Yeah, sorry, I keep forgetting that SSG isn't a new form but the base form of Goku now essentially.

I wonder if the ending of DBZ will now be contradictory to what happens on DB super...

Uub's implied to be as strong as Kid Buu but with all these jumps in power and so on, his level will be pathetic compared to Goku, Vegeta and possibly others making Goku's efforts in training him completely pointless.

It's funny to think about it now.

Goku straight lying to Vegeta about someone at the tournament who could give them challenge, Kid Buu level is nothing compared to them.

 

[Shauni]

It's funny to think about it now.

Goku straight lying to Vegeta about someone at the tournament who could give them challenge, Kid Buu level is nothing compared to them.

Yeah, but let's be honest, if you're not Goku, you're either a scrub or on your way to scrub level.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Yeah, sorry, I keep forgetting that SSG isn't a new form but the base form of Goku now essentially.

I wonder if the ending of DBZ will now be contradictory to what happens on DB super...

Uub's implied to be as strong as Kid Buu but with all these jumps in power and so on, his level will be pathetic compared to Goku, Vegeta and possibly others making Goku's efforts in training him completely pointless.

We don't know when Super takes place yet. It could easily take place after the ending of DBZ.

 

[NeonZ]

It's funny to think about it now.

Goku straight lying to Vegeta about someone at the tournament who could give them challenge, Kid Buu level is nothing compared to them.

Doesn't he outright say that there could be someone stronger than them there, or that someone else could win the tournament? It was always a lie just to hype up the person he was interested in.

Uub could get a big boost out of training considering what Freeza got though. Even not counting Gold Freeza, he still manages to fight for a bit against a Goku post-Saiyan God, who should be at least above SSJ3 considering his battle with Beerus and this is with months of training, rather than using that power for the first time in his life. Assuming he's born with all of Kid Buu's power, Uub would have an even higher base than Freeza's, and so might get even more out of training.

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

Is Kai streaming anywhere? Funimation?

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Doesn't he outright say that there could be someone stronger than them there, or that someone else could win the tournament? It was always a lie just to hype up the person he was interested in.

Uub could get a big boost out of training considering what Freeza got though. Even not counting Gold Freeza, he still manages to fight for a bit against a Goku post-Saiyan God, who should be at least above SSJ3 considering his battle with Beerus and this is with months of training, rather than using that power for the first time in his life. Assuming he's born with all of Kid Buu's power, Uub would have an even higher base than Freeza's, and so might get even more out of training.

Goku didn't know that Kid Buu's reincarnation at the tournament would be a scared, scrawny untrained kid. It could easily have been a trained warrior that already knew how to use his massive potential, which as you say is much higher than Freeza's.

 

[Heroman]

Is Kai streaming anywhere? Funimation?

I think so.

 

[Jaeger]

Well, DBZ's original conclusion wouldn't gel well with this new direction the series is taking. In fact, we can pretty much right off the ending now. This new project and the films are starting a fresh timeline. I thought it was confirmed this was taking place shortly after RoF?

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Well, DBZ's original conclusion wouldn't gel well with this new direction the series is taking. In fact, we can pretty much right off the ending now. This new project and the films are starting a fresh timeline. I thought it was confirmed this was taking place shortly after RoF?

All they said is that the series "will follow the aftermath of Goku’s fierce battle with Majin Buu, as he attempts to maintain earth’s fragile peace". Which if taken literally would mean it takes place before even BoG and RoF.

 

[Jaeger]

All they said is that the series "will follow the aftermath of Goku’s fierce battle with Majin Buu, as he attempts to maintain earth’s fragile peace". Which if taken literally would mean it takes place before even BoG and RoF.

Interesting. You are right, that could very well be before any Beerus involvement. Or even those Frieza remnants Abocado or whatever. That would make any threats a greater challenge due to not being overpowered Gods yet.

 

[Shauni]

Is Kai streaming anywhere? Funimation?

Nope. Funimation and Hulu only have the original series for streaming it seems.

 

[NeonZ]

Well, DBZ's original conclusion wouldn't gel well with this new direction the series is taking. In fact, we can pretty much right off the ending now.

They keep referencing BoG and RoF taking place in the "10 years blank", and at the very least Pan was born just like in the end of Z. Kai's last ending sequence is all about the ending of Z too. I don't think there's anything indicating they're planning to throw it away.

All they said is that the series "will follow the aftermath of Goku’s fierce battle with Majin Buu, as he attempts to maintain earth’s fragile peace". Which if taken literally would mean it takes place before even BoG and RoF.

That specific wording was only used in the English press release. The Japanese sources had a much more vague "after the defeat of Majin Buu". There was also a comment about a villain stronger than "Buu and Freeza" appearing.

 

[Kagari]

They keep referencing BoG and RoF taking place in the "10 years blank", and at the very least Pan was born just like in the end of Z. Kai's last ending sequence is all about the ending of Z too. I don't think there's anything indicating they're planning to throw it away.


That specific word was only used in the English press release. The Japanese sources had a much more vague "after the defeat of Majin Buu". There was also a comment about a villain stronger than "Buu and Freeza" appearing.

Pan is a newborn in Revival of F.

 

[Third Strike]

That specific word was only used in the English press release. The Japanese sources had a much more vague "after the defeat of Majin Buu". There was also a comment about a villain stronger than "Buu and Freeza" appearing.

Crazy how Cell is now the weakest out of the original big four villains. That would have been hard to believe if someone told me this two years ago. Though, since he has Frieza and the Saiyan's cells, he could end up being stronger than any fighter, if given the chance to train/abuse zenkai.

 

[ArchedThunder]

For anyone doubting that this will take place after the end of Z, I'll post this again.
The final ending for Kai is about Goku reminiscing about previous tournaments at the end of Z and then Uub shows up, this means the end of Z and Uub will be a part of Kai and considering that DBS is taking Kai's time slot and starts airing right after Kai finishes I think there is little reason to doubt that it will take place after the end of Z. If DBS was ignoring the end of Z or took place before it there would be no reason to keep that in Kai, at least not in the Japanese broadcast version.

 

[Jaeger]

Crazy how Cell is now the weakest out of the original big four villains. That would have been hard to believe if someone told me this two years ago. Though, since he has Frieza and the Saiyan's cells, he could end up being stronger than any fighter, if given the chance to train/abuse zenkai.

I was gonna say this. Cell could obviously be stronger than the other two if he actually trained and didn't die.

 

[Vooduu]

Crazy how Cell is now the weakest out of the original big four villains. That would have been hard to believe if someone told me this two years ago. Though, since he has Frieza and the Saiyan's cells, he could end up being stronger than any fighter, if given the chance to train/abuse zenkai.

He only has the cells of everybody pre-Namek saga.

I'm guessing Toriyama made Freiza and Buu stronger because they're more universal threats. Beerus even knew about Frieza and Buu. Frieza was known as the "most powerful in the galaxy" before the conception of the Cell Saga.

I suppose this is why the Freiza's power up in RoF is.. allowed lol.

 

[Jaeger]

He only has the cells of everybody pre-Namek saga.

I'm guessing Toriyama made Freiza and Buu stronger because they're more universal threats. Beerus even knew about Frieza and Buu. Frieza was known as the "most powerful in the galaxy" before the conception of the Cell Saga.

I suppose this is why the Freiza's power up in RoF is.. allowed lol.

Well, Cell literally didn't exist for that long. Buu is a very old monster who existed before Frieza was even an issue. And Freiza took over the galaxy. If Cell wasn't killed he would have been the big bad for who knows how long.

 

[ArchedThunder]

He only has the cells of everybody pre-Namek saga.

I'm guessing Toriyama made Freiza and Buu stronger because they're more universal threats. Beerus even knew about Frieza and Buu. Frieza was known as the "most powerful in the galaxy" before the conception of the Cell Saga.

I suppose this is why the Freiza's power up in RoF is.. allowed lol.

He also has some of Freeza's cells from when he came to Earth.

But anyways, I never thought about it, but I wonder how much stronger Cell could get if he continually blew himself up and regenerated to get big Zenkai boosts.

 

[The Silver]

All i'm saying is that I would have bought Cell coming back and getting a massive bullshit power up over Frieza. Abusing zenkai and regeneration, hell maybe he could somehow bullshit his way to a god form with those saiyan cells.

 

[ArchedThunder]

All i'm saying is that I would have bought Cell coming back and getting a massive bullshit power up over Frieza. Abusing zenkai and regeneration, hell maybe he could somehow bullshit his way to a god form with those saiyan cells.

Freeza's boost in strength makes sense to me, he was ridiculously powerful and yet never trained a day in his life, not only that but he spends most of his time sitting in a floaty chair instead of actually moving around, if he was a human he'd be the kind of person you see at Walmart using the scooters because they don't feel like walking.

 

[The Silver]

Freeza's boost in strength makes sense to me, he was ridiculously powerful and yet never trained a day in his life, not only that but he spends most of his time sitting in a floaty chair instead of actually moving around, if he was a human he'd be the kind of person you see at Walmart using the scooters because they don't feel like walking.

I get the concept of it, Frieza had a lot of room for dem noob gains, I'm just saying Cell would have been even better. He also never trained and was way more powerful than Frieza, on top of it he had built it mechanics that allowed him to cheat his way to getting stronger. It's just easier to buy him getting super strong in a short amount of time.

 

[TheVampire]

I was gonna say this. Cell could obviously be stronger than the other two if he actually trained and didn't die.

He did train.
I remember one scene where he went up into space and was smashing asteroids.

 

[Chaotic-Strike]

He did train.
I remember one scene where he went up into space and was smashing asteroids.

That was filler, and I would hardly call that training since it was more like a warming up.

Cell really has no army to resurrect him like Freeza did so there's no way he's coming back outside of some movie 12 or GT shenanigans.

At the very least Freeza's training session brought his character above getting one shotted all the time like in the Toei Fillers.

 

[Lynd7]

I hope the series is set after the Revival of F, explore the possibilities that BoG's implied.

 

[Jaeger]

He did train.
I remember one scene where he went up into space and was smashing asteroids.

I would never call that training. He was testing his new form's strength. IIRC it was also filler. Along with his strength, Cell's knowledge of fighting came from his genetics. He never had any formal training.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Thank you

 

[Sandfox]

All i'm saying is that I would have bought Cell coming back and getting a massive bullshit power up over Frieza. Abusing zenkai and regeneration, hell maybe he could somehow bullshit his way to a god form with those saiyan cells.

Freeza is more popular though and having Nakao back is cool. That's probably all they cared about lol.

 

[Deadly Joker]

I hope the new season starts with another mixed martial arts tournament.

 

[Sheroking]

I hope the new season starts with another mixed martial arts tournament.

And they fucking finish it.

Seriously, a six or seven episode Budokai to soft-open the series would be the best.