If its really Toriyama led how much you will like this will probably depend on how much you liked the arcs where he had the most control. DB part one (pre Raditz), the Boo saga, and BOG and Ressurection F. A lot of fighting, a lot of comedy, enemies who arent REALLY a threat. Of course those are some of my favorite arcs so I will like it.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
New Dragon Ball TV Series Announced: Dragon Ball Super
- Thread starter munchie64
- Start date
- Status
Who had a hand in freeza and cell saga?
kai had a bunch of ops/eds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o19JQ0vu0jo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyve4Rmf_Ik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_YcvAWIA6g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKCocr7xZF4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gy6TYe3XH4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHLt0jrqB7A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSVJ5ZeHhAA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2ftTm9riPo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi29JNepxt8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_ldqS-Jh8w
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2lsbyw
toei kind of gave up on animating them tho
but that's kind of the story of kai
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o19JQ0vu0jo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyve4Rmf_Ik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_YcvAWIA6g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKCocr7xZF4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gy6TYe3XH4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHLt0jrqB7A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSVJ5ZeHhAA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2ftTm9riPo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi29JNepxt8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_ldqS-Jh8w
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2lsbyw
toei kind of gave up on animating them tho
but that's kind of the story of kai
ZombieVito
Banned
He doesn't know what he is talking about.
Toriyama wrote the entire manga, BoG, Jaco the Galactic Patrolmen, DB Minus and RoF.
KidA Seven
Member
Does he consider Tien human or not? In any case, everything Toriyama has done has pointed to Tien being the better talent in fighting.
Fact: Tien was stronger than Krillin throughout most of the series until Namek because of 1 power up. Tien had the more impressive display of power in the Cell saga.
Fact: Tien trained after Cell games, Krillin took it easy. Tien as a character is like Vegeta. He trains non stop.
If you think 1 power up is enough for Tien to not catch up to Krillin, well you're crazy. I think his work is what matters over what he says.
I prefer the adventure, comedy, and more creative fights over Z's non stop fighting. I felt like all the creativity in fighting stayed with Dragon ball and every fight in Z felt the same.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
The video games will make sure we never forget GT. DB Heroes recently unveiled Golden Oozaru Broly and SSJ4 Broly. And who could forget SSJ3 GT Trunks?
Yep, I feel the same. Dragon Ball and DBZ are like two different anime that got a crossover, the first one is much more grounded (on earth) and the second one is quite over top with the power levels and transformation.
What really disappointed me in DBZ compared to the original Dragonball, was the fighting style. Dragonball had a real martial arts (wushu like) style, where in DBZ (after Frieza ? ) in was more street fighter style.
Technically he wrote it, but you could argue these sagas were ghost directed by his editors' opinions. His editors are the reason DBZ became combat and spectacle focused, in stark contrast to DB. The above gaffer says they're 'like two different anime that got a crossover'. It does seem like someone else wrote DBZ.
E.g. Plot-wise, Androids 19 and 20 were supposed to be the first and final androids. As a 'geezer and fatso', his editor didn't like them, so Toriyama introduced 17 and 18, but his editor didn't like these 'brats' either, so Toriyama finally introduced Cell (whose semi-perfect from was rushed because it looked 'moronic').
NeonZ
Member
It's not like Toriyama will get free reign here. I think the fact that RoF is pretty action focused compared to BoGs shows that pretty clearly.
On the other hand, he does seem to have free reign on the design side, considering how simple the new designs have been even in RoF compared to Toei's designs which are usually much more elaborate.
On the other hand, he does seem to have free reign on the design side, considering how simple the new designs have been even in RoF compared to Toei's designs which are usually much more elaborate.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I wouldn't be surprised if they have Toyotaro do a manga adaptation.
Bullshit assumptions. I can still watch GT today and enjoy. DBZ on the other hand....
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
What about it do you enjoy
NeonZ
Member
Unless they want to end the DB Heroes manga, I doubt they'd do that.
Just watched the trailer for SSJ4 Broly....... I don't think I have any idea what's going on in this. Who are the two with Goku and Vegeta?
Are you asking what do I enjoy from GT? Several things.
The plot, the fact that Goku was turned into a kid again (And by the Pilaf gang, no less! Loved how the very first main antagonist of the original series was the one that set the events of the final series in motion. Also kid Goku >>>>> Adult Goku), the shorter fights (DBZ's fights were just too damn long), the characters and their personalities (Inherited from the end of DBZ). I especially LOVED Goten and Trunks.
The music (BEAUTIFUL in the original version, I haven't heard the US versions). The SSJ4 transformation and how it was achieved (By Goku, at least). I loved Pan and her closure. I loved the shorter story arcs (Currently I have no time to watch long animes). The exploration, sense of adventure and goofiness of the first arc (Which was pretty much a tribute to the original DB). Loved the new character designs (Vegeta is BOSS). Loved Piccolo's fate and his ultimate decision. LOVED how the Dragon Ball themselves, and the protagonists' dependance on them, was the final issue that had to be solved.
And of course, it has the best ending of any Dragon Ball-related material, and gave me a true sense of closure to the story of Dragon Ball.
ArchedThunder
Banned
It's been on hiatus for about 5 months now because of Resurrection F hasn't it? I wouldn't be surprised if they just ended it for a Dragon Ball Super manga.
"Heroes", they made up a bunch of player avatars for the game.
IAmRandom31
Banned
there is no basis to think this about Krillian. He fights no one and does nothing throughout the Android / Cell / Buu saga
what would make you think he got any stronger?
The androids blow him off because he is so weak. Cell just kicks him and nearly kills him. When he was unlocked by Super Kami Guru ( sorry had to ) that was his peak and it stayed that way.
+1
Sometimes it seems like GT's sole source of hatred comes from Akira's lack of involvement, which is a very poor excuse. From an anime vs anime perspective, some criticism can be deflected right back to non-Kai DBZ (i.e. with all its original filler).
NeonZ
Member
It's a monthly manga though, they'd need a weekly publication to adapt a tv anime that likely will last at least 26 episodes, probably 50 or more, considering the timeslot.
DBZ's filler had many stupid scenes, but the anime sometimes also had great animation, something GT never has. There's also how the filler often was focused on secondary characters, unlike GT. I mean, for Piccolo's death, the only GT flashback they had was Baby Gohan firing a Kamehameha at him. Even Toriyama's improvisation is usually less blatant. There's a reason GT was barely able to last more than one year and had to go through a big reformulation. It's not only fans complaining in the internet, general audiences clearly didn't receive it well back in 90's Japan.
I agree that GT does have a superior soundtrack though.
Some very specific scenes in both of the series had good animation. The rest was mediocre, though.
Huh? Compared to what?
NeonZ
Member
Is there a single well animated battle in all of GT? The melee choreography is always lazy, mostly resorting to generic fast punches and all character use ki blasts way too much, which stands out as rather uncharacteristic in Goku's case.
Z had more interesting battles with actual choreography even into the Buu Saga (see Majin Vegeta vs Goku or Goku vs Kid Buu).
Do you have a source for GT producers changing and ending the anime in response to critical reception, or is that your conjecture?
DiipuSurotu
Banned
That's THE best, btw. Nothing ever topped it. I still cackle madly when Goku narrowly dodges Vegeta's kick, and strands of his hair come out still having the SSJ glow on them. There were other good fights on the show, sure, but nothing that matched that level of animation/choreography. Movie 12 had a similar style with the Janemba fights, but they were all fairly short. That level of detail must've been hell on the animators.^One of the best animated fights in the franchise
NeonZ
Member
There are official sources pointing the lower audience rating (20.5% average for Z vs 14.6% average for GT. GT's highest rated episode only hit 19.7%) and the staff changes during production also are listed officially.
But, no, there's no official source where they say that the changes, both of direction of the show and staff, that the series went through were in response to its weak reception.
I guess Avatar or film anime.
Got to give it a break for being an 80's/90's TV show, well before the rise of anime.
ZombieVito
Banned
Yep, he does consider him human . Funny you think his work is more important that was he says since the manga also stated Krillin was stronger in the Buu arc.
You are also forgetting that Krillin got his potential unlocked, this is a big deal. It was stated this power up was a continuous one. He jumped from 1,770 to 13,000, then he jumped to the mid 20,000's and then he jumped to 75,000+. Who knows if he continued to get stronger from it by the time Trunks arrived.
Tien would need an increase in strength of 40 times at minimum just to catch up with him. Not even Goku did that with North Kaio.
And I'm sorry but using a highly amplified attack that did not even damaged Cell is not that impressive and doesn't prove superiority to Krillin.
Wiz
Member
Any word on who might do the soundtrack? I kinda hope it's Shunsuke Kikuchi. He did the original Dragonball series and some of Kai and I really like his music a lot. I know there are a lot of Bruce Faulconer fans out there but after watching Dragonball again recently I really fell in love with the soundtrack.
^One of the best animated fights in the franchise
Yeah in terms of animation, this is the best
I want Bruce back for the US dub so badly
I ask because I can't find any article on why GT ended. I get the impression there was a production team issue, perhaps an artist's block or they couldn't replace the director. He suspiciously didn't direct anything after GT. I don't believe GT ended due to poor reception because a) children watch the show superficially and don't reflect professional criticism b) GT ran for only a year and wasn't catastrophic enough to ruin the franchise.
Yeah... I far prefer the Faulconer stuff.
Unknown One
Member
Super 17 battle in a nutshell. Goku spamming ki blast like an idiot, so uncharacteristic of him.
Jigolo
Member
^One of the best animated fights in the franchise
Second fav behind Goku vs Cell
RedAssedApe
Banned
Tien and co beat up the ginew force in the filler anime though! hehe
and yeah if Gohan got majorly screwed over in power level by family life, i would think krillin would be the same. but seriously...are we really arguing over tien and krillin?
KidA Seven
Member
Tien and co beat up the ginew force in the filler anime though! hehe
and yeah if Gohan got majorly screwed over in power level by family life, i would think krillin would be the same. but seriously...are we really arguing over tien and krillin?
Tien vs Krillin is serious business.
Is that when Yamcha said Krillin was the strongest? Like we're supposed to take the word of a character when they always get proven wrong. I'm seriously watching DB all over again and I can't count how many times Krillin, Yamcha, and Master Roshi judge the strength of others incorrectly.
Sorry, but training for 7 years > some power up from the Namek saga. It's 7 years. They're all able to dwarf whatever power they had on a year to year basis. That was shown throughout Z. Now I'm supposed to believe that the Guru power up means Krillin > Tien forever even though Tien was the more gifted fighter and the harder worker? I would give Tien the advantage even if Krillin were to keep training because he always takes his training lightly compared to Tien and Goku, but he's not even doing that.
I hope you enjoy listening to music that doesn't know when to stfu.
https://twitter.com/BruceFaulconer/status/593428962199535616
Kyleripman
Member
GT Defense Force represent. I just find it to be a really fun show.
I would agree that the fight choreography is GT's weakest aspect. I think these clips (the first one isn't supposed to be that fast, I accidentally sped it up) show the weakest parts: overreliance on throwing an opponent super far for dramatic impact, and "fast attacks" that become a blur. However, they're not that bad, and Z is equally guilty of these offenses in many instances.
GT Defense Force represent. I just find it to be a really fun show.
I would agree that the fight choreography is GT's weakest aspect. I think these clips (the first one isn't supposed to be that fast, I accidentally sped it up) show the weakest parts: overreliance on throwing an opponent super far for dramatic impact, and "fast attacks" that become a blur. However, they're not that bad, and Z is equally guilty of these offenses in many instances.
And yeah, I loved that particular battle against Ledgic. Goku looks fucking badass when he stops the sword attack and just breaks them. And then he gets kicked in the stomach while making the funny face.
It's very clear that Goku was just holding back during most of the GT battles, and he was having just a little fun.
QuikZilver
Member
I hated GT but I liked SSJ4 though. Is mch better than SSJ god.
The adventure pretty much disappears during the martial arts tournament and almost entirely after the second tournament.
The training arcs are generally awful and, for the most part, Goku just decimates everything. It was light hearted and fun up until King Piccolo, where it became a shitty version of DBZ.
ZombieVito
Banned
Dude... The manga, videogames, promotional material from both BoG and RoF and the god of Dragon Ball himself all say Krillin is the strongest Earthling.
Give it up.
Wiz
Member
I dunno. I liked Faulconers work watching the show growing up, but now I'm thinking it was just nostalgia cause his music doesn't resonate with me that much anymore.
- Status