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[Takao]

Any word on who might do the soundtrack? I kinda hope it's Shunsuke Kikuchi. He did the original Dragonball series and some of Kai and I really like his music a lot. I know there are a lot of Bruce Faulconer fans out there but after watching Dragonball again recently I really fell in love with the soundtrack.

Nothing's been announced, but it'll surely be Sumitomo. He composed the music for the two most recent films as well as Kai: The Final Chapters. His Dragon Ball music is really forgettable, so it's a shame he's getting such high profile work. It would be a very neat nod to bring back Tokunaga, but that's not going to happen.

 

[Apath]

I dunno. I liked Faulconers work watching the show growing up, but now I'm thinking it was just nostalgia cause his music doesn't resonate with me that much anymore.

I'm someone who prefers Faulconer but I see the merits of the classic sound track. There are just some really good tracks with Faulconer that makes me unable to prefer the original.

 

[Blader]

Second fav behind Goku vs Cell

Goku's fights with Cell, Majin Vegeta and Kid Buu are my favorites.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

61 days out from the premier. Wonder how much info we are going to get.

How is Kai shown? HD?

 

[Jaeger]

Is there a single well animated battle in all of GT? The melee choreography is always lazy, mostly resorting to generic fast punches and all character use ki blasts way too much, which stands out as rather uncharacteristic in Goku's case.

Z had more interesting battles with actual choreography even into the Buu Saga (see Majin Vegeta vs Goku or Goku vs Kid Buu).

Well now it seems you are talking about two separate things. Are you talking about animation quality of choreography? Something can be well animated and not a good fight. And vice versa.

 

[EchoChamber]

Oh come on falcouner is just audible diarrhea.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Oh come on falcouner is just audible diarrhea.

It just doesn't stop

 

[Takao]

61 days out from the premier. Wonder how much info we are going to get.

How is Kai shown? HD?

Kai: 480p, 1080p - 16:9 (Japanese broadcast/J-DVD-only), 4:3 (everything and everywhere else)
The Final Chapters: Resolutions the same as above, except it's only available in 16:9 because Toei is terrible.

 

[Sheroking]

I dunno. I liked Faulconers work watching the show growing up, but now I'm thinking it was just nostalgia cause his music doesn't resonate with me that much anymore.

I can see that. It lacks in subtlety. So does the show, though.

I just actively hate most of the original soundtrack. I think it actually ages the show, like you FEEL like you're watching something from the 80's. That's not a good thing. Gohan flipping out is a million times better in English with Faulconer than it is in Japanese, in spite of the unnecessary inner monologue.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Yep, he does consider him human . Funny you think his work is more important that was he says since the manga also stated Krillin was stronger in the Buu arc.

You are also forgetting that Krillin got his potential unlocked, this is a big deal. It was stated this power up was a continuous one. He jumped from 1,770 to 13,000, then he jumped to the mid 20,000's and then he jumped to 75,000+. Who knows if he continued to get stronger from it by the time Trunks arrived.

Tien would need an increase in strength of 40 times at minimum just to catch up with him. Not even Goku did that with North Kaio.

And I'm sorry but using a highly amplified attack that did not even damaged Cell is not that impressive and doesn't prove superiority to Krillin.

I'm not sure why you're getting the underlined. As for the bolded, why are you combining the V-Jump and Daizenshuu numbers when they're different sources and contradictory at times.

And even the daizenshuu, jump #31, and v-jump shouldn't be taken as gospel - Mr Popo supposedly had a power level of 1,030 when the Saiyans arrived.

A highly amplified attack is impressive - With all of his strength, Cell could not get past Tien's attack

Let me remind you - Cell was fused with Android 17. Android 16 = Imperfect Cell > Android 17 ~= Piccolo + Kami > Android 18 > SSJ Vegeta > SSJ Goku 4 years removed from fighting Frieza >>>>>> SSJ Goku (Namek) > 100% Frieza = 1 THOUSAND times stronger than Captain Ginyu. Piccolo fused with kami couldn't do anything to hold back Imperfect Cell from absorbing 17. And Tien held back a fusion of Imperfect Cell and android 17.

We don't know how powerful Semi Pefect Cell is compared to Frieza, but you're grossly underestimating Tien unless you think the Kikoho is orders of magnitudes more effective a technique as a power amplifier compared to the kaioken or any SSJ transformations (or for that matter, the power of the Spirit Bombs used against Vegeta, Frieza, and Buu, when compared to Goku's base power).


In conclusion: Tien is best human. Krillin can suck it, Yamcha can break a leg, Chiaotzu can self-destruct.

Back to your normal Dragon Ball Super/GT debate

 

[Wiz]

Nothing's been announced, but it'll surely be Sumitomo. He composed the music for the two most recent films as well as Kai: The Final Chapters. His Dragon Ball music is really forgettable, so it's a shame he's getting such high profile work. It would be a very neat nod to bring back Tokunaga, but that's not going to happen.

Don't really know this guy but none of the music in Battle of the Gods stuck out to me so that's not a good sign...

I'm someone who prefers Faulconer but I see the merits of the classic sound track. There are just some really good tracks with Faulconer that makes me unable to prefer the original.

I can see that. It lacks in subtlety. So does the show, though.

I just actively hate most of the original soundtrack. I think it actually ages the show, like you FEEL like you're watching something from the 80's. That's not a good thing. Gohan flipping out is a million times better in English with Faulconer than it is in Japanese, in spite of the unnecessary inner monologue.

I agree that in specific scenes Faulconer NAILED it. But most of the time I felt like it was too much and unnecessary. I liked how the original was more background/orchestral likemusic - even some of the action scenes.

 

[munchie64]

I can see that. It lacks in subtlety. So does the show, though.

I just actively hate most of the original soundtrack. I think it actually ages the show, like you FEEL like you're watching something from the 80's. That's not a good thing. Gohan flipping out is a million times better in English with Faulconer than it is in Japanese, in spite of the unnecessary inner monologue.

So orchestral music dates it, but synthesized rock doesn't?

And feeling like something is from the decade it was made... there is no way anyone can convince me that's a bad thing. It's an 80s/early 90s show. That's where it comes from, that's when it was made. It also isn't as serious as Funimation original made it out to be. I'm insanely glad they don't split fanbases like this anymore.

 

[Village]

So orchestral music dates it, but synthesized rock doesn't?

And feeling like something is from the decade it was made... there is no way anyone can convince me that's a bad thing. It's an 80s/early 90s show. That's where it comes from, that's when it was made. It also isn't as serious as Funimation original made it out to be. I'm insanely glad they don't split fanbases like this anymore.

I am more than ok with dubbing companies improving shit

 

[Sheroking]

So orchestral music dates it, but synthesized rock doesn't?

You're probably right.

I don't mind something dating itself to an era I lived through and loved. It's likely my bias at work. I would like a return, but I won't cry if there isn't one.

I agree that in specific scenes Faulconer NAILED it. But most of the time I felt like it was too much and unnecessary. I liked how the original was more background/orchestral likemusic -
even some of the action scenes.

I'll say this: The sound effects were much better in the original Japanese because the music didn't over-power them.

But I will mark out for a good Faulconer moment.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I hate Faulconer's music outside of very few tracks, but I hate Kikuchi's circus sounding score even more.

The only good DB OST is the one used for Kai. Yamamoto was the best. Why'd he have to go and get himself fired? Whoever's composing for Buu is pretty good too, though.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Maybe they're afraid of writing more memorable music because they'll inadvertently plagiarize someone else

Like "oh dude I just wrote the new theme for Goku" and it's Luke Skywalker's theme

 

[Mr. Smiley]

Doesn't Buu Saga kai reuse songs from Battle of Gods?

 

[munchie64]

I am more than ok with dubbing companies improving shit

I'm not apparently. I don't hate the score, but as far as I'm concerned it shouldn't exist.

And anyone calling Kikuchi's score "circus like" is greatly oversimplifying.

 

[Takao]

Doesn't Buu Saga kai reuse songs from Battle of Gods?

I believe so, but that also happened back during Z with Kikuchi.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

I remember someone asking me why I liked the japanese score once. It's not that I like the japanese score, it's just that I hate faulconer

 

[Mr. Smiley]

I believe so, but that also happened back during Z with Kikuchi.

Oh. I mean, if it's the same composer then that's fine. I just remembered this one really annoying track that was used alot in the early episodes of Buu Kai and thought the composer was different when it shifted to BoG music.

 

[GaimeGuy]

faulconer composed like 200 tracks and maybe half a dozen of them don't suck.

 

[The Silver]

Eh I like and can see the merits of both soundtracks.

Look at SSJ3 Goku's transformation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzFUN4CxLww
In Japanese it almost takes on a sinister tone, implying it's bad thing and Goku's going to far and wrecking the planet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH_CcJ-uBWI
Here the music is meant to hype you the hell up, goddamn Goku's so strong he's shaking the planet!

The Japanese is probably the more valid of the two when taking in the context of the dialogue and seeing the normal people run around in fear, but dammnit Bruce's music is just good blood pumping fun.

I don't mind the interpretation of DBZ as a more balls to the wall crazy action show, embrace the stupid shounen.

 

[ZombieVito]

I'm not sure why you're getting the underlined. As for the bolded, why are you combining the V-Jump and Daizenshuu numbers when they're different sources and contradictory at times.

And even the daizenshuu, jump #31, and v-jump shouldn't be taken as gospel - Mr Popo supposedly had a power level of 1,030 when the Saiyans arrived.

A highly amplified attack is impressive - With all of his strength, Cell could not get past Tien's attack

Let me remind you - Cell was fused with Android 17. Android 16 = Imperfect Cell > Android 17 ~= Piccolo + Kami > Android 18 > SSJ Vegeta > SSJ Goku 4 years removed from fighting Frieza >>>>>> SSJ Goku (Namek) > 100% Frieza = 1 THOUSAND times stronger than Captain Ginyu. Piccolo fused with kami couldn't do anything to hold back Imperfect Cell from absorbing 17. And Tien held back a fusion of Imperfect Cell and android 17.

We don't know how powerful Semi Pefect Cell is compared to Frieza, but you're grossly underestimating Tien unless you think the Kikoho is orders of magnitudes more effective a technique as a power amplifier compared to the kaioken or any SSJ transformations (or for that matter, the power of the Spirit Bombs used against Vegeta, Frieza, and Buu, when compared to Goku's base power).

In conclusion: Tien is best human. Krillin can suck it, Yamcha can break a leg, Chiaotzu can self-destruct.

Back to your normal Dragon Ball Super/GT debate

Vegeta states both Gohan and Krillin are getting multiple power ups, he was also confident that with their help he will defeat First Form Freeza.

Daizenshuu is official and there is nothing wrong with those BP's. I only used the V-jump BP has a baseline, this why I used a "+". I personally don't use it.

And yes, the Shin Kikoho is that of a massive multiplier. Even earlier in the series the Kikoho was said to be much more deadlier than the Kamehameha.

I really don't know why you guys are so stubborn. The author said Krillin is the strongest. It shouldn't be debated.

 

[MikeMyers]

The Shin Kikoho would have killed Tien if Goku didnt grab him and get him healed. So even if he used it in 1 on 1 combat, he'd just die from it and at best get a draw.

Mr. Popo trained with the humans for the Saiyan battle, so its possible he got stronger for it.

 

[NeonZ]

Daizenshuu is official and there is nothing wrong with those BP's. I only used the V-jump BP has a baseline, this why I used a "+". I personally don't use it.

And yes, the Shin Kikoho is that of a massive multiplier. Even earlier in the series the Kikoho was said to be much more deadlier than the Kamehameha.

I really don't know why you guys are so stubborn. The author said Krillin is the strongest. It shouldn't be debated.

The author never said that Kuririn was stronger than Tenshinhan though, which is the main issue here.

He once said that Kuririn was the strongest human, but that kind of blanket statement is way too open, especially since you want to apply it to a character who generally had a very small presence when that statement was said and wasn't part of the conversation where it was said either. Toriyama has referenced Beerus as the "strongest in the universe" while also saying that Whis is stronger than Beerus.

Also, if you're going by the Daizenshuu information, then Tenshinhan is a descendant of some three eyed people, and not a pure human. So, Kuririn being "the strongest human" becomes utterly irrelevant as far as comparing him to Tenshinhan goes.

The Shin Kikoho would have killed Tien if Goku didnt grab him and get him healed. So even if he used it in 1 on 1 combat, he'd just die from it and at best get a draw.

He used it four or five times though. It's not like he used once and fell over (differently from the battle against Nappa).

 

[ZombieVito]

The author never said that Kuririn was stronger than Tenshinhan though, which is the main issue here.

He once said that Kuririn was the strongest human, but that kind of blanket statement is way too open, especially since you want to apply it to a character who generally had a very small presence when that statement was said and wasn't part of the conversation where it was said either. Toriyama has referenced Beerus as the "strongest in the universe" while also saying that Whis is stronger than Beerus.

Also, if you're going by the Daizenshuu information, then Tenshinhan is a descendant of some three eyed people, and not a pure human. So, Kuririn being "the strongest human" becomes utterly irrelevant as far as comparing him to Tenshinhan goes.


He used it four or five times though. It's not like he used once and fell over (differently from the battle against Nappa).

He never said human, he said earthling.

Toriyama:
Kuririn was originally supposed to be just a minor role, so to have him become Goku’s best friend in the blink of an eye…

Koyama:
Well, he is the strongest Earthling male.

Toriyama:
You’re right, he is the strongest among the Earthlings. But in spite of that, he tends to end up in a bad way, so I thought, “once in a while, I have to let him be happy,” and had him get married. (laughs)

 

[Sheroking]

Eh I like and can see the merits of both soundtracks.

Look at SSJ3 Goku's transformation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzFUN4CxLww
In Japanese it almost takes on a sinister tone, implying it's bad thing and Goku's going to far and wrecking the planet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH_CcJ-uBWI
Here the music is meant to hype you the hell up, goddamn Goku's so strong he's shaking the planet!

The Japanese is probably the more valid of the two when taking in the context of the dialogue and seeing the normal people run around in fear, but dammnit Bruce's music is just good blood pumping fun.

I don't mind the interpretation of DBZ as a more balls to the wall crazy action show, embrace the stupid shounen.

I agree with your last point.

One thing about that comparison. The "he's destroying things/sinister" vibe you're talking about has no consequences. There was no real reason for it to even happen, other than to make Goku look bad-ass. So why is it even a good thing that the music played into it? It might tell a story, but the story is dropped off a cliff with no purpose.

I'd rather it just pump me up.

 

[NeonZ]

He never said human, he said earthling.

You really can't take that literally though. Unless you also think Kuririn is stronger than #17, #18, Gohan and the other half Saiyans too? They're all technically "earthlings".

 

[ZombieVito]

Manga, videogames, promotional material and the author all say Krillin > Tenshinhan.

Stay in denial, guys.

 

[jwk94]

So do we know when the US is getting Buu saga Kai?

 

[NeonZ]

Manga, videogames, promotional material and the author all say Krillin > Tenshinhan.

Stay in denial, guys.

Well, hug your out of context statements. And Budokai 3, I guess.

I'd think that the guy who dodges one of Gero's eye beams, stops Semi-Perfect Cell for a while when the Androids couldn't, didn't kiss the floor after one hit from the Cell Jrs and stopped one of Buutenks blasts is stronger than the one with nothing to his name after Freeza arc (and who at that point couldn't even stop Freeza's finger blast and save Dende in the exact same context where Tenshinhan saved him from Buutenks).

 

[ChouGoku]

Who had a hand in freeza and cell saga?

It was more of his editors directing his arcs. One good example is the enemy of the Andriod saga changing every few chapters

He doesn't know what he is talking about.

Toriyama wrote the entire manga, BoG, Jaco the Galactic Patrolmen, DB Minus and RoF.

Don't listen to this guy he doesnt know what hes talking about. Its well known that Toriyama had other direction in the manga in the Freeza and Cell arcs

From shenlong times 2.
Akira Toriyama: At that time it began to be more fun to think up the story than to draw the pictures. But with the story, I basically only thought of each chapter. That’s why I end up getting caught in these quagmires. (laughs) Around the time of Trunks’ time travel, it was dreadful. I kept drawing, and it just got more and more incoherent.

Kazuhiko Torishima: You only got away with that because Kondō was your editor. I can’t stand that kind of troublesome stuff. (laughs)

Akira Toriyama: You’re terrible to say that, Torishima-san. Right around then was when the Androids No. 19 and No. 20 appeared. You weren’t my editor or anything anymore, but you specifically called me to say “I thought that the enemies had finally come, but aren’t these just a geezer and a fatso?” (laughs) In truth, I hadn’t had plans for anyone but No. 19 and No. 20 to appear. But there was no helping it, so I brought out No. 17 and No. 18. Then you called me up and said “What, this time it’s just some brats?” So I brought out Cell. (laughs)

Fuyuto Takeda: So you hadn’t planned on Cell appearing at all?

Akira Toriyama: That’s right. I liked No. 19 and No. 20 just fine. And I liked the initial Cell fine as well.

Fuyuto Takeda: The bug-like one?

Akira Toriyama: But Kondō-san said “He looks ugly. Of course, he can transform.”, so I had no choice but to transform him into his second-form.

Yū Kondō: Was that how it was?

Akira Toriyama: And then you were really awful, Kondō-san. “This time he looks like a moron, doesn’t he? Hurry up and make him into his perfect-form.” you said.

Yū Kondō: But he really did look like a moron. (laughs)

Akira Toriyama: With second-form Cell as well, I liked him well enough. Actually, I had wanted him to play a more active role. But since I was told he looked stupid, I had no choice but to change him. (laughs) So I made him into his cool-looking perfect form, which was to Kondō-san‘s liking.

Ill find the one on the Freeza saga later

 

[Shamrock7r]

I would like for the ki attacks to have more varied attacks. There were some instances in DBZ, but they were rarely used. For example, distructo disc, solar flare, and when Vegeta handcuffed Goku to a mountain side. Although they will never be as powerful, if you give the lesser characters specific ki attacks that Goku/Vegeta can't do, it makes them more useful.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I would like for the ki attacks to have more varied attacks. There were some instances in DBZ, but they were rarely used. For example, distructo disc, solar flare, and when Vegeta handcuffed Goku to a mountain side. Although they will never be as powerful, if you give the lesser characters specific ki attacks that Goku/Vegeta can't do, it makes them more useful.

Solar Flare is the MVP, though.

Seriously, watch DBZ and see how many times that ends up saving the heroes.

 

[Kyleripman]

And yeah, I loved that particular battle against Ledgic. Goku looks fucking badass when he stops the sword attack and just breaks them. And then he gets kicked in the stomach while making the funny face.

It's very clear that Goku was just holding back during most of the GT battles, and he was having just a little fun.

But yeah that's the first semi-serious fight in GT iirc, good stuff. I'm watching my way through all the series now, about 2/3 through OG Dragon Ball at the moment. Hype!

edit: This will actually be my first time watching the Dragon Ball movies (Blood Rubies, etc.).

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Japanese music in DBZ is 9/10 times always better than the US counterpart. Example.

Gohan going SSJ2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XebyKpo6A9s

American counterpart.
https://youtu.be/YB45FE6y_wg?t=51m8s

-------------------

DBGT Goku kills Shenron (dubbed, but this was original music)
https://youtu.be/wrSRqgizUc0?t=30s

American version
https://youtu.be/QkINvAk20rg?t=9m7s

-------------

Only instance I found where the American beats the Japanese version is gohan killing Cell.
https://youtu.be/DqASMiVg1C8?t=1m30s

American
https://youtu.be/Ec6fR11dHUk?t=2m12s

 

[params7]

I've always preferred Faulconer dub music to Japanese. But that's just me. Piccolo, Vegeta and SSj3 themes are unbeatable in dub, imo.

Would be cool to see some fan edit dub of the new anime with some old dub music. We probably won't get Faulconer with the new series dub.

 

[The Silver]

Japanese music in DBZ is 9/10 times always better than the US counterpart. Example.

Gohan going SSJ2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XebyKpo6A9s

American counterpart.
https://youtu.be/YB45FE6y_wg?t=51m8s

-------------------

DBGT Goku kills Shenron (dubbed, but this was original music)
https://youtu.be/wrSRqgizUc0?t=30s

American version
https://youtu.be/QkINvAk20rg?t=9m7s

-------------

Only instance I found where the American beats the Japanese version is gohan killing Cell.
https://youtu.be/DqASMiVg1C8?t=1m30s

American
https://youtu.be/Ec6fR11dHUk?t=2m12s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcSWlET_qpI

The SSJ2 scene you posted for the dub wasn't the full thing.

The music in Japanese is definitely better, the dub was too generic and made it seem too mundane compared to the emotional Japanese music with the vocals

the narration part in the dub is excellent though, that guy knew how to build hype and suspense.

 

[munchie64]

So do we know when the US is getting Buu saga Kai?

HAHAHAHAHA

no

 

[Andrefpvs]

All I ask for are more Videl/Gohan moments ;_;

I just want more Videl TBH.

my man

 

[Jaeger]

Japanese music all the way.

 

[-Eddman-]

Reading most people arguments about the music and audio in Dragon Ball, I'm glad I grew up in Latin America, where we got the series from the beginning, with the japanese score, but our Goku doesn't talk like an old lady, so best of both worlds.

 

[Zubz]

All I ask for are more Videl/Gohan moments ;_;

Same here! I'm beginning to realize that I want to see more interactions between characters in Super than seeing them flat-out fight.

 

[rrc1594]

I haven't been posting in here, cause I still can't believe it!

But no Tien is stronger than Krillin

 

[KidA Seven]

Manga, videogames, promotional material and the author all say Krillin > Tenshinhan.

Stay in denial, guys.

Who gives a fuck about the video games or what he or anyone says. How about you use the evidence given by the show and logic? And no, whatever some character says is not evidence. Characters are shit at judging other character's strength. Besides, how would they know how strong Tien is if they haven't seen him in 7 years?


There is no way a Krillin that didn't give a fuck about fighting is stronger than Tien who trained non stop for 7 years.

Your only argument is, "well this person/character said Krillin is stronger so it must be true." The only way I would believe that is if there was a massive gap between the set of characters that no amount of training could overcome. Like say Gohan compared to Tien or something. The difference in power was so big that training wouldn't matter without a significant power up. Between someone like Tien and Krillin though?


#TeamTien
#FuckChaotsuThough

I would like for the ki attacks to have more varied attacks. There were some instances in DBZ, but they were rarely used. For example, distructo disc, solar flare, and when Vegeta handcuffed Goku to a mountain side. Although they will never be as powerful, if you give the lesser characters specific ki attacks that Goku/Vegeta can't do, it makes them more useful.

Solar Flare is the MVP, though.

Seriously, watch DBZ and see how many times that ends up saving the heroes.

Yeah they need to get more creative. I felt like Z was lacking in that regard, but it's a lot harder to come up with stuff after you have introduced so many things in the original series.

 

[Sandfox]

I miss the original Kai music, but they obviously can't use it anymore.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Wherever you stand on the Faulconer vs. Japanese music debate I think we can all agree the American GT score blows ass.

 

[BKatastrophe]

Solar Flare is the MVP, though.

Seriously, watch DBZ and see how many times that ends up saving the heroes.

It's the most overpowered technique in the show, I shit you not. And if people who used it weren't so damn idiotic about it, so is the Destructo Disc. Sadly, everyone who uses the disc uses it in the dumbest way possible.

 

[The Silver]

solar flare/destructo disc combo would be broken as fuck if everyone wasn't stupid