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[zerokoolpsx]

I can't believe this is actually turning out to be good. I can finally be hyped.

.

 

[rollingstart]

Everything sounds amazing.

Very nice to hear how the hacking plays out. Stealth undetected and hacking computers is the way I play these games.

though you can save at any time in the game

GOOD!

Managing Inventory Like It's 1996

I've always been a proponent of the grid inventory system primarily used in action RPGs, and it's great to see a modern-day developer sticking with a working formula rather than going for something much more simplistic. Adam's inventory is split into two sections - a base grid and a quest grid. I never actually found any items that slotted themselves into the latter area, but it's obvious that the team didn't want us running to the nearest merchant just to clear out some room for an important quest item. To help keep your inventory even more manageable, the team made the decision to limit your carrying capacity to one of each weapon. Therefore, if you find your first Machine Pistol on a dead guard, all subsequent Machine Pistols you find will only net you additional ammunition.

As you pick up items (all maneuverable, readable, and obtainable items are highlighted with a yellow outline, by the way), they are automatically arranged and sorted in your inventory, so there's no need for any prior honing of your Tetris skills. Smaller weapons like the Stun Gun take up six grid squares, while larger weapons like the Machine Pistol take up twelve. All of the ammunition I found took up two grid squares, and consumables - painkillers, cyberboost proenergy bars, and beer, for example - take up a single grid square. I never once came close to filling up my inventory space during the demo, but if you'd like to add even more room to your inventory later in the game, you can always invest some Praxis Points into the three Carrying Capacity upgrades underneath the Cybernetic Arm Prosthesis augmentation. Each of these upgrades will add two columns of inventory space to your grid.

super hot

 

[Grisby]

Everything sounds great. Hopefully it will all merge together to make a very enjoyable game.

 

[StuBurns]

Maybe RPG purists should take a step back from their character sheets and realize that bullets not going where you are aiming in a first person game is frustrating and dumb.

Deus Ex is not gospel. Not every aspect of its decade old design needs to be replicated in this game.

Nailed it.

Deus Ex was incredible for it's time, but if this didn't have real skill based hit detection I'd be pissed.

 

[Amir0x]

I want so bad to believe. Deus Ex is one of the greatest games of all time, and I still haven't played a game since that has replicated that unique blend of gameplay with as high a standard of quality.

It's hard to not be pessimistic. Someone said 200,000 lines of spoken dialogue in this game, which I think is purely insane and surely has to be the largest number ever for a game. That alone makes me think there has to be a good level of freedom in the conversations, which gives me hope.

I dunno previews are always unreliable, but i am starting to believe this game might be something decent...

 

[tiff]

In this case, Deus Ex 3 is just redressing an imbalance.

Typically stealth games heavily reward the stealth-killing approach rather than the stealth-sneaking approach. Look at Thief, or Hitman, or Splinter Cell. It makes sense to dispose of enemies, because then they'll be out of the way and won't have the potential to disturb you anymore. You can also get loot/items from them in some games.

Deus Ex 3 is making it harder to take that approach by default. You can do it, but now it's not a more attractive option than simply sneaking around. By encouraging sneaking, the game has made BOTH options viable. Later on, if you really prefer the stealth-killing approach, you can take a variety of augs to improve your capabilities there (I know there's one that makes energy regenerate further, and one that lets you take down two nearby enemies at once).

There's really more organic ways to fix that though. Like maybe we can assume that soldiers/mercenaries/terrorists in 2027 all use radios to communicate, and when an entire warehouse full of people drop out of radio contact it sends a clear indication that something's wrong, so the remaining enemies are more alert or whatever and it becomes harder and harder to take people out without getting into firefights.

So I guess I'd rather there be natural advantages and disadvantages to different strategies rather than just having game-y fixes like limited one-button supermoves to balance things out.

 

[StuBurns]

I want so bad to believe. Deus Ex is one of the greatest games of all time, and I still haven't played a game since that has replicated that unique blend of gameplay with as high a standard of quality.

It's hard to not be pessimistic. Someone said 200,000 lines of spoken dialogue in this game, which I think is purely insane and surely has to be the largest number ever for a game. That alone makes me think there has to be a good level of freedom in the conversations, which gives me hope.

I dunno previews are always unreliable, but i am starting to believe this game might be something decent...

I doubt it, TOR has over half a half a million they claim.

 

[Amir0x]

I doubt it, TOR has over half a half a million they claim.

TOR?

 

[Lostconfused]

I doubt it, TOR has over half a half a million they claim.

If that GDC thing is real then DA:Origins had 56,000 spoken lines and DA2 is going to have 38,000. 200,000 is a pretty insane number for any game.

TOR?

The Old Republic. The MMO Bioware is working on.

 

[Chairman Yang]

There's really more organic ways to fix that though. Like maybe we can assume that soldiers/mercenaries/terrorists in 2027 all use radios to communicate, and when an entire warehouse full of people drop out of radio contact it sends a clear indication that something's wrong, so the remaining enemies are more alert or whatever and it becomes harder and harder to take people out without getting into firefights.

So I guess I'd rather there be natural advantages and disadvantages to different strategies rather than just having game-y fixes like limited one-button supermoves to balance things out.

Limited supermoves feel pretty natural and organic to me. We're all used to the Halo style of melee, where up-close attacks are literally more powerful than bullets, but that's obviously not anywhere near reality. In Deus Ex 3, if you want to do something inhumanly powerful and crazy melee-wise, you have to use up special energy to do it. You can't do it continuously without even more powerful upgrades. I think it makes sense.

Your approach sounds cool too, but it would entail a LOT of design and AI challenges, challenges that might not be worth the small benefit they give.

 

[Sub_Level]

Eidos has got my money.

 

[Amir0x]

The Old Republic. The MMO Bioware is working on.

oh right right.

I should have stipulated non-MMORPG. MMORPGs are on a different scale from all other games. It's quite dramatic to have a single player RPG have 200,000 lines of spoken dialogue.

 

[BigTnaples]

I really really hope this game turns out well. Getting kind of hyped for it now.

Any word on extra graphical goodies for the PC? Or is it just a console port.


Everyone should buy this just on the prospect of getting a sequel that runs on UE3.9

 

[Lostconfused]

I should have stipulated non-MMORPG. MMORPGs are on a different scale from all other games. It's quite dramatic to have a single player RPG have 200,000 lines of spoken dialogue.

Either way it sounds so insane to me that I think either some is unintentionally lying or is fudging the numbers by taking into account stuff like localization or something.

Edit: I mean if turns out be true, hey suck it down Bioware competition is here so don't you try to rest easy on your GOTY fame.

 

[Chairman Yang]

oh right right.

I should have stipulated non-MMORPG. MMORPGs are on a different scale from all other games. It's quite dramatic to have a single player RPG have 200,000 lines of spoken dialogue.

The 200K figure sounds wrong. I can see 200K words of spoken dialogue, but not lines.

 

[WanderingWind]

Hope...rising? Everything sounds pretty good. At first blush, I was against the "RPG/bullets" thing, but I thought about it a second longer....and I'm okay with that. There needs to be something that you can improve on in that regard, but yeah, I think when you're dealing with an FPS/RPG/Action hybrid, then yeah you need to be able to at least aim accurately. Maybe the reticule tightens much quicker, or something, to keep it from being pure CoD/Halo in firefights, but then again, I almost never got into those in Deus Ex 1 anyway.

The 200K figure sounds wrong. I can see 200K words of spoken dialogue, but not lines.

It doesn't seem that far off if they're including cutscenes in that number.

 

[Laurentius]

FjVva

 

[Donos]

BF3, The Witcher 2, Deus Ex HR = new PC this year WOOOHOO.

 

[Shanlei91]

I want so bad to believe. Deus Ex is one of the greatest games of all time, and I still haven't played a game since that has replicated that unique blend of gameplay with as high a standard of quality.

I bought Deus Ex during a steam sale last year and haven't touched it yet. For some reason, reading this makes me want to play it today.

 

[Lostconfused]

Still looks like Bioware has got quiet the fight on its hands for RPG of the year title.

 

[bishoptl]

Doesn't sound half as good as this. If I can't tote my American flag into bathrooms and redecorate my recently murdered boss' office, colour me disappointed.

 

[Amir0x]

I bought Deus Ex during a steam sale last year and haven't touched it yet. For some reason, reading this makes me want to play it today.

it really is an astonishing accomplishment. There are so many ways to play through the game, and it doesn't have that 'empty, uninteresting' mission scenario that a lot of modern open ended western games can have as a result of their nonlinear structure.

The best western games understand that the way to make nonlinear gameplay interesting is to have profound gameplay and narrative consequences for all your actions, which is completely the case in Deus Ex. It's also supremely fun to play as a general rule, and has aged fairly well in all.

 

[legacyzero]

This game looks so good. Only ONE negative that I've seen so far. The main characters' voice is too close to Gabe Logan from Syphon Filter. (maybe it actually is LOL)

It's a bit too over the top for me. But everything else looks so well put together.

 

[grkazan12]

Sorry to derail a slight bit, but I have never played any of the Deus Ex games, been wanting to try them out for a long time now and I was wondering what games in the series should I play? and will the game mechanics be hard to get into?

 

[Zeliard]

Very cautious optimism.

Sorry to derail a slight bit, but I have never played any of the Deus Ex games, been wanting to try them out for a long time now and I was wondering what games in the series should I play? and will the game mechanics be hard to get into?

You should play Deus Ex 1 and make sure to stay far away from Invisible War. DX is available on Steam.

 

[tiff]

Limited supermoves feel pretty natural and organic to me. We're all used to the Halo style of melee, where up-close attacks are literally more powerful than bullets, but that's obviously not anywhere near reality. In Deus Ex 3, if you want to do something inhumanly powerful and crazy melee-wise, you have to use up special energy to do it. You can't do it continuously without even more powerful upgrades. I think it makes sense.

Oh, yeah, the limited supermoves themselves are fine because everything mechanical takes up bioelectric energy.

I guess what's throwing me off in this argument is that it kind of implies that augmented takedowns are the only method of close-quarters combat that one could use for silent takedowns (because otherwise, limiting them alone wouldn't really balance the game). I don't remember ever reading anything on that either way.

Your approach sounds cool too, but it would entail a LOT of design and AI challenges, challenges that might not be worth the small benefit they give.

It's been years since I played MGS, but I remember a lot of "What's going on? Respond!" on the radio chatter after I killed a dude. So at the very least I'm sure the idea's been played with.

 

[BobTheFork]

Maybe RPG purists should take a step back from their character sheets and realize that bullets not going where you are aiming in a first person game is frustrating and dumb.

beautiful

 

[Amir0x]

Sorry to derail a slight bit, but I have never played any of the Deus Ex games, been wanting to try them out for a long time now and I was wondering what games in the series should I play? and will the game mechanics be hard to get into?

Skip Invisible War. Just skip it. It does not even whiff the same galaxy as the first game. That's not even one of those elitist opinions where one holds the original to some impossibly insane pedestal since no game can match nostalgia. Invisible War just abandoned everything and anything that made the first game good and then it didn't even do those new things well.

 

[grkazan12]

Alright thanks for the answers guys, can't wait to see what this game is all about.

 

[axdenied]

Sarcasm or serious ?

The release date will be announced next week, as tweeted by the game director:

http://twitter.com/Jeffachoo/status/43807284391985152#

 

[StuBurns]

oh right right.

I should have stipulated non-MMORPG. MMORPGs are on a different scale from all other games. It's quite dramatic to have a single player RPG have 200,000 lines of spoken dialogue.

I don't know why I put 'half a half a million', I meant half a million.

Although I don't think most MMOs have that much that's actually voiced, I think TOR is the largest, but yeah, in the context of a single player game that seems insane. Presumably there is some branching dialogue options and wholly optional conversations.

I'm very excited for the game, I think with every narrowly focused game I play my appreciation for having any sort of option of how to approach a situation becomes ever more meaningful. For whatever reason people seem hesitant to even allow the played to have any real agency in an action game. Even something fairly small like optional stealth in Uncharted 2 makes me feel so much more liberated.

 

[Madman]

oh right right.

I should have stipulated non-MMORPG. MMORPGs are on a different scale from all other games. It's quite dramatic to have a single player RPG have 200,000 lines of spoken dialogue.

Wouldn't shock me if GTA4 was around that number. There were probably 1000 lines alone dedicated to Niko complaining.

 

[Confidence Man]

beautiful

Not really. It's a pretty dumb statement, for a few reasons. No one was advocating that it be completely unchanged from Deus Ex, having bullets not go where you aim, only that character skill should play a part, given that this is presented as a role-playing game. The "decade old" design is featured in a number of modern games where gunplay is informed by stats like Fallout 3 and New Vegas, Alpha Protocol and Stalker.

Also, putting aside weapon proficiencies, Deus Ex had other skills which made Denton more efficient at normal activities like picking locks, bypassing electronics, hacking computer systems, or using items, none of which are present here.

 

[Chairman Yang]

Not really. It's a pretty dumb statement, for a few reasons. No one was advocating that it be completely unchanged from Deus Ex, having bullets not go where you aim, only that character skill should play a part, given that this is presented as a role-playing game. The "decade old" design is featured in a number of modern games where gunplay is informed by stats like Fallout 3 and New Vegas, Alpha Protocol and Stalker.

Also, putting aside weapon proficiencies, Deus Ex had other skills which made Denton more efficient at normal activities like picking locks, bypassing electronics, hacking computer systems, or using items, none of which are present here.

They're all present here, in the form of augs.

 

[MMaRsu]

Sarcasm or serious ?

The release date will be announced next week, as tweeted by the game director:

http://twitter.com/Jeffachoo/status/43807284391985152#

Please let it be soon I'll buy 3 copies

 

[Draft]

Not really. It's a pretty dumb statement, for a few reasons. No one was advocating that it be completely unchanged from Deus Ex, having bullets not go where you aim, only that character skill should play a part, given that this is presented as a role-playing game. The "decade old" design is featured in a number of modern games where gunplay is informed by stats like Fallout 3 and New Vegas, Alpha Protocol and Stalker.

Also, putting aside weapon proficiencies, Deus Ex had other skills which made Denton more efficient at normal activities like picking locks, bypassing electronics, hacking computer systems, or using items, none of which are present here.

You slimy little nerd. If you're going to call my statement dumb at least have the balls to quote it directly.

You're examples are so shitty, too. Yes, please Eidos, copy the amazing gun play mechanics from Fallout 3 and Alpha Protocol! Talk about dumb statements.

 

[Confidence Man]

Maybe RPG purists should take a step back from their character sheets and realize that bullets not going where you are aiming in a first person game is frustrating and dumb.

Deus Ex is not gospel. Not every aspect of its decade old design needs to be replicated in this game.

No one was advocating that it be completely unchanged from Deus Ex, having bullets not go where you aim, only that character skill should play a part, given that this is presented as a role-playing game. The "decade old" design is featured in a number of modern games where gunplay is informed by stats like Fallout 3 and New Vegas, Alpha Protocol and Stalker.

Better?

 

[WanderingWind]

You slimy little nerd. If you're going to call my statement dumb at least have the balls to quote it directly.

You're examples are so shitty, too. Yes, please Eidos, copy the amazing gun play mechanics from Fallout 3 and Alpha Protocol! Talk about dumb statements.

Jesus, man. Settle down.

 

[BobTheFork]

Not really. It's a pretty dumb statement, for a few reasons. No one was advocating that it be completely unchanged from Deus Ex, having bullets not go where you aim, only that character skill should play a part, given that this is presented as a role-playing game. The "decade old" design is featured in a number of modern games where gunplay is informed by stats like Fallout 3 and New Vegas, Alpha Protocol and Stalker.

Also, putting aside weapon proficiencies, Deus Ex had other skills which made Denton more efficient at normal activities like picking locks, bypassing electronics, hacking computer systems, or using items, none of which are present here.

1) I don't care about the faithfulness to the original as long as THIS one is fun and stands by itself.
2)All I commented on was the mechanics of firing and bullet placement, not any of the other stuff you mention
3)He said and I agree but if you disagree tell him not me.

edit: ugh you edited

 

[Amir0x]

Also, it should be noted, games should always be designed with preference to the better gameplay. Although I have no problem with them toning down the aiming issue, I do think there is sound gameplay reasons for this and I believe in contributes to the fun I have playing the game. I am not looking for realism, just a cause-and-effect consequence of superior stats.

 

[Tanolen]

New Vegas bullets went where you were pointing. Accuracy was only in vats, and weapon skills only made guns do more damage.

 

[ZombieFred]

As a vivid player on Deus Ex, I think the decision to make the shooting mechanics competent for today's standards is a wise one. I love the first game but some of those gameplay mechanics would ruin the experiance for a game like this because of how much time you will spend in a game that's take use of modern features and controls. Sometimes it's for the best or you're just going to face your own frustation.

 

[badcrumble]

If you want to add RPG elements to shooting, do it with stuff like some sort of critical% bonus, or the ability to pull off ricochet trick shots (which would fucking OWN by the way). Things that use 'character skill' to SUPPLEMENT player skill, not get in the way of it.

 

[Draft]

No one was advocating that it be completely unchanged from Deus Ex, having bullets not go where you aim, only that character skill should play a part, given that this is presented as a role-playing game. The "decade old" design is featured in a number of modern games where gunplay is informed by stats like Fallout 3 and New Vegas, Alpha Protocol and Stalker.

Better?

Shooting stuff sucks absolute balls in two of those games. Why should a mechanic that doesn't produce good game play be used? Because it satisfies some proposed checklist of things that are in RPGs? That's bullshit. It's the worst kind of inside the box thinking.

A game with real time aiming mechanics doesn't need a secondary math check to determine shot success. That system is unintuitive. The skill check happened when the cross hair was put on target and the trigger pulled at the right time.

 

[tiff]

Shooting stuff sucks absolute balls in two of those games. Why should a mechanic that doesn't produce good game play be used? Because it satisfies some proposed checklist of things that are in RPGs? That's bullshit. It's the worst kind of inside the box thinking.

A game with real time aiming mechanics doesn't need a secondary math check to determine shot success. That system is unintuitive. The skill check happened when the cross hair was put on target and the trigger pulled at the right time.

Even in pretty much every modern FPS you aren't going to hit what you're aiming at 100% of the time.

 

[StuBurns]

There are just much more satisfying things for the user than dice rolls. Use some bullshit 'upgraded' ammo mechanic that effectively provides the same growth without removing enjoyable shooting.

 

[Funky Papa]

The funniest part about this argument is that Adam Jensen is a former SWAT officer, so he (read: you) should be a pretty good shot regardless of magical dices rolling in the background.

Just saying.

 

[Draft]

Even in pretty much every modern FPS you aren't going to hit what you're aiming at 100% of the time.

Actually in pretty much every modern FPS, ignoring lag, bullets are treated like laser beams. If the cross hair is over the target when the trigger is pulled, it's a hit.

Now, if we were talking about a system where bullets were affected by physics, that would be interesting. But we're not. We're talking about pulling the trigger from 10 feet away and whiffing the shot because the RNG pulled a 3 and was looking for 7.

 

[Lostconfused]

Plus I never thought it made much sense that a guy who has state of the art nano augmentation, and who has undergone extensive training can't aim a gun properly.

Actually you can make an argument for it. There is a pretty cliche scene, but its also a nice nod to the concept of augs, where the glass cracks in his hand. Suggesting that he doesn't have full/perfect control over his new body. All his motor control skills and muscle memory are gone so he has to learn how to use his body all over again.

 

[Dennis]

Please be good.

I need Deux Ex back in my life....and I want other developers to start making cyberpunk games.

GTA: Cyberpunk and Assassins Creed: Neo Tokyo would be a nice start.

The signs are positive this will be a good game so I am optimistic.

Oh, and I still wish they hadn't gone yellow - the future is bluish goddamit!